It was renamed the Dixieland before it was discontinued. Could this also have been its initial name?
daveklepper It was renamed the Dixieland before it was discontinued. Could this also have been its initial name?
Nope. When the Dixie Flagler started the Dixieland was a winter season train.
Just a guess, Miami Flagler or Florida Flagler?
daveklepper Just a guess, Miami Flagler or Florida Flagler?
No and no...
More guesses, Dixie Special, Dixieland Special?
daveklepper More guesses, Dixie Special, Dixieland Special?
No and no....it is true that for most of the 20th Century the Dixie Route utilized the word "Dixie" in their name trains.
So......was it Dixie something? Or something Dixie?
This is fun because most of the print references (and few if any Internet ones I've seen) even hint at this.
FEC had an employee contest to name the Jacksonville-Miami train (that became named the Henry M Flagler). But Cox notes that the etched nameplates for that name were only taken off when the power started being used on the "Dixie Flagler" - it seemed strange to me that he'd mention the contest but not the 'working title' of the service. "Dixieland" of course was only applied to the train in 1954, with sleepers.
I've seen references to "Chicago-Miami Streamliner" as what may be an ETT name for the train -- could that be what they used as a placeholder in 1940?
Where's Mike and his period newspaper access when we need it??
daveklepper So......was it Dixie something? Or something Dixie?
That's the nature of my original question....
RME This is fun because most of the print references (and few if any Internet ones I've seen) even hint at this. FEC had an employee contest to name the Jacksonville-Miami train (that became named the Henry M Flagler). But Cox notes that the etched nameplates for that name were only taken off when the power started being used on the "Dixie Flagler" - it seemed strange to me that he'd mention the contest but not the 'working title' of the service. "Dixieland" of course was only applied to the train in 1954, with sleepers. I've seen references to "Chicago-Miami Streamliner" as what may be an ETT name for the train -- could that be what they used as a placeholder in 1940? Where's Mike and his period newspaper access when we need it??
The fact that FEC switched nameplates when they did makes sense, by that time the Dixie Flagler name was the official one.
The earlist newspaper mention of the Chicago-Miami coach services was in May 1940, when FEC made the initial announcement. I think that the railroad jumped the gun, since at the time the other participating railroads were still working on or completing their due diligence in creating these trains. FEC bought two sets of all-coach lightweight trains; one became part of ACL's interstate Champion trains, while the other one became the intrastate Henry M. Flagler. I'm speculating that FEC saw the financial returns of their train sets and decided that they could make more money utilizing the Henry M Flagler trainset in a Champion-like operation (longer distance, multiple roads). So they were hot-to-trot in getting the new Chicago-Miami operation started ASAP.
Further announcements of the new Chicago-Miami services were made in October 1940, giving more detailed information about the trains and services, including the new names, South Wind, City of Miami, and the name I'm looking for. This is where things get hazy. I do not know if the train name I'm looking for was intended to be the final name, or was there a last minute change of heart by the Dixie Line operators to apply the name Dixie Flagler. I have seen several articles with the initial name, but I have not come across any advertisements that would contain same.
Myron Bilas
The Dixie Arrow? Of course, "Arrow" was a PRR name, and the Florida Arrow was a PRR-L&N-ACL winter season train to Miami.
Johnny
Deggesty The Dixie Arrow? Of course, "Arrow" was a PRR name, and the Florida Arrow was a PRR-L&N-ACL winter season train to Miami.
No, that isn't it. That name would make for strange bedfellows.
Its time to finish off this question, since its been hanging around for so long plus, unfortunately, I will have to deal with the effects of Hurricane Matthew for the next few days here in South Florida, including the possibility of not having power for some time.
Here is the original question:
ZephyrOverland When the Chicago-Miami coach streamliners were announced in mid-1940, the FEC train set that operated as the Jacksonville-Miami Henry M. Flagler was to be repurposed as the Dixie Route's contribution to this new service. As the name Dixie Flagler was applied right before the trains inauguration, what was the original name of this train as it was announced a few months earlier?
When the Chicago-Miami coach streamliners were announced in mid-1940, the FEC train set that operated as the Jacksonville-Miami Henry M. Flagler was to be repurposed as the Dixie Route's contribution to this new service. As the name Dixie Flagler was applied right before the trains inauguration, what was the original name of this train as it was announced a few months earlier?
One hint was that, for the most part, Dixie Route trains had "Dixie" in them.
Another hint is that the other word was used by a number of railroads to imply an up-to-date type of service.
The answer is also mentioned in the book I recently co-authored, "From the Midwest to Florida by Rail, 1875-1979", published by PRRT&HS.
Thanks for the hints: Dixie Flyer
daveklepper Thanks for the hints: Dixie Flyer
No, the Dixie Flyer was running as a conventional train at this time.
There was already the Dixie Limited, so that would not have been the name. Dixie Streamliner seems a bit too much for me, but I cannot think of anything else.
Dixie Wind, Dixie Breese, Spirit of Dixie, Dixie Spirit, Pride of Dixie?
first-t-last choice
Oh! Dixie Lightning. Dixie Meteor, Dixie Star, Dxie Comet
Dixie thunder would not work, loss of sleep suggested.
Deggesty There was already the Dixie Limited, so that would not have been the name. Dixie Streamliner seems a bit too much for me, but I cannot think of anything else.
Well Johnny, Dixie Streamliner actually is the answer. Below is a link to one of the October 1940 articles that talk about the new trains:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=9E0bAAAAIBAJ&sjid=XUwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6303%2C5088247
Again, I don't know if Dixie Streamliner was only a placeholder or if they were serious about the name.
This happened once before on the Dixie Route. In mid-to-late 1912 reports were being circulated of a new Dixie Route train, the Dixie de Luxe, running from Chicago to Palm Beach. But in January 1913 the Chicago-Jacksonville Dixie Limited was inaugruated instead. Unfortuntately, the reasons the Dixie de Luxe became the Dixie Limited are lost to history.
Johnny, you get the next question.
It looks like the gap between Henry M Flagler service and Dixie Flagler service was very short. Did the train actually run as Dixie Streamliner?
rcdrye It looks like the gap between Henry M Flagler service and Dixie Flagler service was very short. Did the train actually run as Dixie Streamliner?
No. When the Chicago-Miami service started, the train was named Dixie Flagler. To the best of my knowledge, the Dixie Streamliner label existed only for a few months before the service actually started, in mid-to-late 1940.
Myron, I am flabbergasted--and glad that the powers that were decided against Dixie Streamliner. I doubt that many people who rode the Dixie Flagler had any idea as to who Henry Flagler was--but I knew when I first came across the train name, in 1951 (in the first ACL passenger timetable that I saw). I never saw the Dixie Flagler, but I did see the Dixie Limited as it backed into Chattanooga one morning in 1957.
Back around seventy years ago, there was a day train beween what was, I believe, the fourth largest city in a certain southern state and the largest city in the state, and passed through the state capital on the way. The train was named for a mountain just outside the smaller city. Name the cities, the mountain, and the states the train passed through. For extra credit, tell how many times it passed through each state.
How about the "Lookout" (for Lookout Mountain)? Chattanooga-Memphis via Nashville. Leaving Chattanooga the line scrapes the Tennessee/Georgia Line, crossing into Georgia and back into Tennessee three times, into Alabama (to hit Bridgeport and Stevenson), then back into Tennessee before finally heading northwest toward Cowan, Tullahoma and Nashville. Nashville Chattanooga and St. Louis did the honors.
That's it! It was a pretty nice train--observation (radio), coaches, and diner. It was the local between Chattanooga and Nashville, but the night train was the local between Nashville and Memphis.
I'll stick with trains and states - this train, in addition to the coaches and Pullmans headed to and from its namesake carried a "Daily except Saturday" Pullman for its neighboring state's capital city.
PRR Cincinnati Limited, through sleeper to (me from) Nashville, TN
L&N Cn- Nsh
Oneof those cases where I went to the job-site by plane and returned by train.
Read the question carefully - the train's name has to do with a state - and there's a small twist in the question as well.
I find nothing in yout question that defines namesake as the name of a state and not a city located in a particular state. But so be-it, if that is what you mean.
State could mean a countroy? Like the Penn Texas with a thru sleeper to Mexico City? But the Penn Texas, TexasEAgle, and Texas Speical may have had a drop sleeper that ended up only going to Oklahoma City. Even the Texas Zephyr or Tesxas Chief.
In fact, if I had to pick just one, it would be the Texas Chief.
The only Pullman on the train I'm looking for that wasn't to or from the train's namesake state was destined to the capital city of its neighboring state, not to the capital city of one of its neighboring states.
Of course, and I rode it, the particular sleeper, more than once, the State of Maine's sleeper to Concord, New Hampshire. New Haven and Boson and Maine, although the train continued on the Maine Central from Portland to Bangor. The sleeper was cut off on the B&M at Lowell or Ayer, and picked up by a Boston - White River Junction train and carried to Concord. This involved a reverse in direction at Lowell or Ayer. I am uncertain if Lowell or Ayer were passenger stops for sleeping car passengers. Often, in steam days during WWII, the coaches on the train from Boston and reverse were the familiar wood open-platform cars, the B&M being the last large user of such equipment, and the power could be a 2-8-0 or 2-6-0.
I should note that the train ran via Providence, over what is now the Providence and Worcester, rather than the direct line from Groton up to Worcester, where interchange with the Boston and Maine occured. This was a political move to prevent Rhode Island from forcing the New Haven to hand over the P&W lease to the Boston and Albany - New York Central System to break the NYN&H monopoly on Providence traffic from anywhere or so I was told.
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