No. Courtland Street and Whitehall Street stations were cinstructed under the duail contacts and were not open in 1908 when the operation rerached Manhattan with BRT MU elevated cars and in1909 when LIRR MP41s started providing half the service, nor in 1913 when the Manhattan end was extended by two stations to a new terminal, with all three stations still very much in use today. Also in use the strengthened elevated structure, where steel cars replaced elevated cars, but only after the summer LIRR-BRT joint service ended. And it is the NTCTA's oldest structure, dating back to steam says.
The 1914 terminal I find is now a terminal only for rush-hour short-turns, since the regular route goes another two stations before reversing, a 1931 extension.
You had the right general neighborhood but wrong specific subway line.
And Courtland and Whitehall always have had trains using either no elevated structure or one in South Brooklyn without any possible connection with LIRR passenger operations, other than Manhattan Beach, and no LIRR operation there ever used MP41s in any joint LIRR-BRT operation, or in any LIRR Manhattan Beach operation at all. Correction, trains at Courtland and Whitehall did use the Queensboro Plaza Station, which can count as an elevated station, and some today during late night hours use that station and the elevated Astoria structure, but there is no and was no connection to the LIRR there, except a very temporary one to transfer or deliver IRT subway cars for the initial opening of the "Stineway Tunnel" as a Grand Central - Vernon Blvd. IRT subway line, part of today's "7."
I'm thinking Whitehall Street (South Ferry) and either Cortland Street or City Hall. The track map suggests Cortland Street might hae offered a good turnback location.
Regarding RC's answer concerning the Flatbush Avenue Atlantic Avenue LIRR - IRT single-track connection, verbal history had its only use fior the Mineola, August Brlmont's private IRT composite subway, restorable at Branford, which could MU with the IRT Gibbs cars and composits, for trips with friends to Belmont Race Track and to his LI summer home. No written record or picture has yet been found. But LIRR equipment was not involved.
RC did nam the right LIRR equipment for the correct answer, and the LI destination of the correct summer service remained one destination these cars regularly had, the other being the Flatbush Avenue Terminal (instead of the two stations in Manhattan for the 1909 - 1917 summer service).
Since these cars did not use Brooklyn Bridge, and the two subway stations still are in use, the answer should be easy to find.
The sevice the LIRR MUs that were the first to enter Manhattan and was run jointly with Brooklyn Rapid Transit. LIRR never ran over the Brooklyn Bridge, although they bought cars for the purpose. Sand Street was the closest they came.
The LIRR had 0-4-4T Forney steamers, similar to those on the elevateds. The service was inaugurated in July 189i8, from a ferry terminal, with thr BRT and LIRR equipment alternasting, continuing as a summer-only service. In 1904, all BRT cars were MU motors and trailers, and only LIRR then provided the equipment. Throughout the existance of the service BRT and LIRR crews changed at the elevated station closest to the connection, regardless of which equipment was used, but both crews stayed on-board for the entire trip.
In 1906 the connection was electrified, and then only BRT equiopment was used. In 1908, the service was diverted from thr ferry terminal to Manhattan
The elevated structure, which is still in use and is the oldest on the entire system, was strngthened, and on May 13th, 1909, LIRR MUs entered Manhattan for the first time, and BRT and LIRR trains then alternated in this summer service.
The service was extended two stations in Manhattan on 4 August 1913. All three Manhattasn stations are still in use. Steel BMT equipment was never used in this summer service.
The service last operated in September, 1917. The specific LIRR MUs were never regularly scheduled for Penn Station trains, and thus did not run to Manhattan again in regular service..
I was referring to revenue runs, only. As far we know, if the connection at Atlantic avenue was ever tested, it was with the IRT"s Mineola, Aועודא Belmont's private car, with modified composite body and Gibbs car electricals and mechaniucals. You may have additional information.
The first revenue service of LIRR MUs to Manhatan was over a year earlier than the LIRR opening of Pen nsylvanias Statuion, which preceded PRR's use. It was to different Manhattan extination, to a station that still exists in use, and was a service that lasted through summer 1916, and was even slightly extended to another Manhattan stationchaa. still in use. Except for two short double-track connections, some remnants can still be seen from specific rapid transit lines, all the route is still in use, except for some different connecting tracks in two locations, but no possible direct duplication of the service is possible. Instead you would have to change trains once during rush hours, twice at other times.
There was a physical connection between the LIRR and IRT near Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn which was never used for regular revenue service, but was used for a few test runs with LIRR's subway-sized MP41 cars, similar to the Gibbs cars used on the IRT. I think the test runs were in 1908, not long after the Subway extension to Brooklyn opened. The first revenue runs of LIRR MUs into Manhattan came in on what is more or less today's route from Jamaica via the East River tunnels in 1910.
Well, first, I hope someone attemps an answer to my questions on the other question thread. A look at the summer anf autumn 1944 Official Guide might give the answers.
In what year did Long bIsland Railroad electric multiple unit trains first enter Manhattan?
As a bonus, describe the eequipment and route.
You are correct with the Union 0-10-2, since I specified 2 cylinder. Your turn...
Union Railway 0-10-2? Or was there a B&O 0-6-6-0?
What were the most powerful two cylinder US steam locomotives without a leading truck?
I'll accept that as an answer, though you left out Western Pacific. SP's 12 Lima AC-9s were the only cab-in-back articulateds in later years. Most of SP's cab-forwards were backwards Yellowstones. Western Pacific and Northern Pacific had the ones with boosters. WP's were very close to Big Boys in starting TE without their boosters. NP and DM&IR's had more starting TE than Big Boys. B&O's were quite a bit lighter than the others. Alco built the prototype NP Z-5, Baldwin built all of the rest except for SP's.
Tractive effort (from Steamlocomotive.com)
B&O EM-1 114,500
SP AC-9 124,300 (same as later AC class cab-forwards)
UP 4884-1 135,375 (there was some variation among Big Boys)
WP M137/151 137,000 + 13,900 booster
DM&IR M3/M4 140,000
NP Z-5 145,930 + 13,400 booster
2-8-8-4 Yellowstones. The ones owned by the DM&IR had more tractive effort than a Big Boy. The others were owned Northern Pacific, Southern Pacific and Baltimore & Ohio. I always liked them because they were "long" Berkshires and I like Berkshires better than Mountains or Northerns.
Not 2-8.8-0s. Remember that there were 72 of the wheel arrangement. B&O alone had around 150 2-8-8-0s. The type I'm looking for were only owned by four railroads. Most of the ones with more tractive effort than the Big Boys did not have boosters.
The TV series had a GS3, not a GS4... well, it had the single headlight and not the two lights in the smokebox door, which I always thought made the front look piggish...
That was in the black-and-white episodes. When they got the budget for color, they went to the diesel Most Beautiful Train In The World... and that, alone, made adjusting a color TV set worthwhile...
Weren't those simpled 2-8-8-0s in a previous question about tender boosters? They took them off 4-12-2s, didn't they?
The Daylight's route was one of the few SP liked using E-Units on, at least until the dynamic-brake equipped E8 and E9s arrived. PAs and FP7s got the mountain assignments.
Thirty of the 72 steam locomotives of this wheel arrangement were more powerful than a Big Boy, at least as far as starting tractive effort goes. Superman would have had a tough time pulling against one of them.
Of the other 42, 10 were just about equal to a Big Boy in starting tractive effort, but were also equipped with tender boosters which gave them an edge even over the other engines of this type.
Rcdrye is right, of course and he gets the next question. They don't turn up too often, but there are a few shows from that series that show Daylight-painted E7's as the locomotive.
Apologies to CSS, and congratulations to RC on the Daylight-painted 4-8-4.
daveklepper The SOO, Chicago - Salt Saint Marie, with the Milwaukee.
The SOO, Chicago - Salt Saint Marie, with the Milwaukee.
Wrong thread, but I'll take it. Milwaukee and Soo Line ran a Chicago-Sault Ste. Marie Pullman (usually an 8 sec, 2 cpt, 1DR) via Pembine Wisconsin until the late fifties using the Copper Country Limited and Soo's nameless 7 and 8 (that once carried the name Atlantic Limited). In later years it was every other day.
In addition to this one "line" Soo Line had a contract with Pullman that allowed for borrowing cars as needed, but operated their own sleeping cars, with CP cars on the western routes, especially in the summer.
CSS - I'll copy this over to the other thread.
An SP GS-4, of course. What else would you find running through the Chatsworth Rocks (AKA Krypton)?
Just for fun. According to the TV series, what locomotive was Superman more powerful than?
Waiting for CSSH's question for ten days
LS&MS (NYC) and Rock Island used Grand Central from 1900 to mid-1903 while the LaSalle Street Station was being rebuilt on the site of an earlier LS&MS/CRI&P station. Grand Central at the time was owned by Chicago Terminal Transfer, later the Baltimore & Ohio Chicago Terminal. The "temporary" ramp built for LS&MS and CRI&P remained in use for many years to reach freight houses near Grand Central.
Grand Central also served the B&O, Pere Marquette and CGW during the period. Former owner Wisconsin Central used IC's Central Station from 1899 on before moving back to Grand Central in 1912.
I will say that it was Grand Central Station at Wells & Harrison.
Close. The LS&MS tracks were still on the surface at that point (not raised to their present level until after 1907), so another nearby station was accessible without a ramp. The station was (at that time) owned by a terminal company but was later identified with a trunk line.
At the time the 20th Century Limited was inaugurated, in June 1902, the LaSalle Street Station was being thoiroughly rebuilt and was not in operation. The Central coukld have used a temporary terminal iun the throat area. I believe this is what the CRI&P did, and perhaps some New York Central (actually Lake Shore & Michigan Soiuthern) did also, but to provide better amenities, I believe the Century used the IC's Central Station for the short time untiil La Salle reopened, since the Central's Michigan Central and Big Four (CCC&StL) were also users.
Back to the 20th Century Limited. From 1903 to 1968, Chicago's LaSalle St Station (jointly owned with Rock Island) was the western terminus. From the inaugural run to early 1903, the trains started and ended their uns in a different Chicago station. Name the station and the reason.
You are correct. Rcdrye has the next question.
Let's see - Both of them...
Operate under trackage rights from state-owned commuter railroads - in both cases the commuter railroads used to operate the freight trains as well.
Have to use gauntlet tracks to get around high-level platforms.
Next question: What do South Shore Freight and New York & Atlantic have in common besides ownership?
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