A new question will be coming soon....
The Kansas City-Florida Special had a lock on Kansas City-Jacksonville through Pullman car lines through most of its existence. An exception occurred in the mid-1920's when a Kansas City-Jacksonville car line briefly existed that was not handled on the Kansas City-Florida Special or any other Frisco/SR train. What was the routing of this car line and what name was applied to this service?
Not sure if this is what you're looking for...
Summer 1925 the Dixie Flyer (L&N/NC&StL/CofG/ACL) carried a Jacksonville to Yellowstone car, which the Wabash carried to Kansas City to hand off to the UP. As far as I can determine UP handled it in the Yellowstone Special west of Cheyenne. I couldn't find a marketing name (and neither could Mike (Wanswheel) back in 2009). Best guess since nothing is specified is that the car was a 12S1DR.
rcdrye Not sure if this is what you're looking for... Summer 1925 the Dixie Flyer (L&N/NC&StL/CofG/ACL) carried a Jacksonville to Yellowstone car, which the Wabash carried to Kansas City to hand off to the UP. As far as I can determine UP handled it in the Yellowstone Special west of Cheyenne. I couldn't find a marketing name (and neither could Mike (Wanswheel) back in 2009). Best guess since nothing is specified is that the car was a 12S1DR.
Not exactly - there were a number of Florida Pullman car lines that extended beyond Kansas City to various western points, but what I'm looking for is a Kansas City-Jacksonville Pullman car line that did not operate via Frisco/SR. In fact, for one of the operators of the Pullman car line I'm looking for, this was the only time it was involved in handling through Florida Pullmans.
could be the MoPac to Saint Louis and then could be the IC or the C&EI-L&N-ACL or Southern..?
daveklepper could be the MoPac to Saint Louis and then could be the IC or the C&EI-L&N-ACL or Southern..?
Dave - you're giving me a number of answers. Could you give me a single answer covering the entire line? Obviously, SR would not be included since I stated in the original question that the car line I'm looking for did not use Frisco or SR. Also, I'm looking for the marketing name this Pullman car line ran under.
I have no reference material other than the internet, but MP to St. Louis, then C&EI, L&N, NC&StL, and ACL would be the railroads involved. I'll try and do some research on Monday or Tuesday, if nobody comes up with the complete answer in the interim.
daveklepper I have no reference material other than the internet, but MP to St. Louis, then C&EI, L&N, NC&StL, and ACL would be the railroads involved. I'll try and do some research on Monday or Tuesday, if nobody comes up with the complete answer in the interim.
Dave - You've given two of the railroads that are part of the answer from your reply. There were two Kansas City-Jacksonville Pullman car lines that would qualify for this answer and both were operated by the same railroads in question during the same time period but on different trains. The marketing name I'm looking for was applied to one of the car lines. I have seen this name used in several ads promoting this Pullman car line.
At this point consider the marketing name as a bonus question.
MoPac KC-StL
IC StL-B'ham
CofG B'ham-Albany
ACL Albany-Jacksonville
Mark
KCSfan MoPac KC-StL IC StL-B'ham CofG B'ham-Albany ACL Albany-Jacksonville Mark
Correct, Mark.
For only one winter season, 1925-26, MP handled through Kansas City-Jacksonville sleepers, turning them over to IC to run on their trains to Florida. Unnamed MP 15 and 16 handled one sleeper and fowarded it to the St. Louis section of IC's Floridan. The other sleeper was handled on MP's Scenic Limited to St. Louis, and was transferred to IC's Seminole for the balance of the trip. MP advertisements referred to these car lines as the "Kansas City Floridan" and "Kansas City Seminole."
You get the next question, Mark.
(For those who are interested, there are a pair of new books (with the second volume coming out by the end of April) that give a complete history of Midwest-Florida passenger train services. "From the Midwest to Florida by Rail 1875-1979" is published by the Pennsylvania Railroad Technical & Historical Society and more information is available from their website. I've had the good fortune to be involved with research and editorial duties for these books and the two 500-page volumes do give a complete account of passenger train services in this part of the country.)
This named Limited served a certain city but did not operate into or out of that city's old Union Sation. Cars to/from that city were shuttled between the station and an outlying yard where they were added to/taken off the main train. Name the city, railroad and train.
Other trains of this railroad used the city's Union Station.
Savanna, GA, ACL, Havana Special
daveklepper Savanna, GA, ACL, Havana Special
Nope but a good try, Dave.
The train I am looking for was, at the time, an all Pullman Limited,
The representation for this train in OG's at the time contained the following note:
"The xxx does not operate to or from the Union Station xxx. Parlor car from xxx is detached in yards and handled into depot arriving at xxx. Through cars for the East leave Union Station at xxx and are attached to train in yards"
NYC's Southwestern Limited in Indianapolis? If I remember right it ran in daylight hours from St Louis across Illinois, which would account for the Parlor car. The only reason I can think of for skipping Indianapolis Union would be to bypass congestion by using the Belt RR, since the Big Four's route otherwise ran right through IUS, just like CSX does today.
rcdrye NYC's Southwestern Limited in Indianapolis? If I remember right it ran in daylight hours from St L ouis across Illinois, which would account for the Parlor car. The only reason I can think of for skipping Indianapolis Union would be to bypass congestion by using the Belt RR, since the Big Four's route otherwise ran right through IUS, just like CSX does today.
NYC's Southwestern Limited in Indianapolis? If I remember right it ran in daylight hours from St L
ouis across Illinois, which would account for the Parlor car. The only reason I can think of for skipping Indianapolis Union would be to bypass congestion by using the Belt RR, since the Big Four's route otherwise ran right through IUS, just like CSX does today.
Not Indy or the Southwestern Ltd but you're in the right area. Your rational regarding the parlor car is exactly the reason the train I'm looking for also carried one.
I'm kind of short on pre-1957 timetables so I'll make another wild guess. B&O's National Limited operated in daytime hours between St Louis and Cincinnati, where the pre-1933 Union station was reached by some pretty awkward trackage. B&O was the only railroad that operated east-west trains through Cincinnati.
rcdrye I'm kind of short on pre-1957 timetables so I'll make another wild guess. B&O's National Limited operated in daytime hours between St Louis and Cincinnati, where the pre-1933 Union station was reached by some pretty awkward trackage. B&O was the only railroad that operated east-west trains through Cincinnati.
You scored a bulls eye with your wild guess! Cincinnati, B&O and National Limited are correct. Looking forward to your next question.
This railroad, after putting Alco trucks with GE motors under some of its EMDs, put Baldwin trucks with Westinghouse motors under some of its Alcos.
The only railroad that comes to mind is Soo Line.
Soo put the trucks from 21 of its 22 Alco "Road-Freight" (FA1) engines under GP30s 701-721 (700 got a spare pair) with the trucks from the 22nd going under GP35 722. At about the same time, the funky A1A tucks under RSC3s 372-374 and 2380 were replaced by Baldwin trucks from DRS-4-4-15s or AS16s. Even though the rebuilt Alco trucks lasted until the units were retired in the 1990s or later (715 is still operable) they were considered to be troublesome in winter. The retrucked RSC3s only lasted a few years working as switchers away from the light track that they were purchased for.
In your court, Paul.
In a similar vein, this railroad re-powered some of its Alco power with EMD engines, the Alco engines were then used to re-power some EMC switchers. Which railroad is it and what further modifications were made to the re-powered Alcos?
Sounds like the Roach Island. Frisco and Katy did it , too, but did not own any EMC as far as I know. The further mods? eh. That I don't remember.
You've got the railroad correct. Further modifications are still open.
CRI&P put Blomberg trucks under their humpbacked, re-engined FA1s.
We have a winner. rcdrye, your question.
Each train set of this pair of postwar streamliners was expected to make a round trip per day. The First-Class equipment on the train was named after the trains' endpoints.
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