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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, March 13, 2015 2:51 PM

One train ran in the 1930's and possibly earlier. The last OG that I have in which it appears is the Feb. 1941 issue. It is no longer shown in the March 1946 or later Guides so it must have been discontinued sometime in the interim. The other train operated beginning in 1971 which actually makes it a post Classic Trains era but just by a couple of years.

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Posted by Deggesty on Friday, March 13, 2015 3:52 PM

KCSfan

One train ran in the 1930's and possibly earlier. The last OG that I have in which it appears is the Feb. 1941 issue. It is no longer shown in the March 1946 or later Guides so it must have been discontinued sometime in the interim. The other train operated beginning in 1971 which actually makes it a post Classic Trains era but just by a couple of years.

Mark

 

What date in 1971? What area of the country?

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, March 13, 2015 9:30 PM

Deggesty
 What date in 1971? What area of the country?

 

May of '71. East of the Mississippi.

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Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, March 14, 2015 12:44 AM

Floridan (IC, C of G, ACL?) and Floridian (Amtrak), Chicago to Miami.

Excerpt from Illinois Central Magazine, December 1922

New De Luxe Train to Florida Scheduled

The Floridan, a new de luxe all-Pullman train, will be put into operation December 5 on the Illinois Central System and connecting lines between Chicago, St. Louis and Florida. It will leave these terminals on the Northern Lines each Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday thereafter and will travel the same route as does the Seminole Limited. The Seminole Limited will continue to run daily.

The schedule of the Floridan is such that it will make faster time between Chicago, St. Louis and Florida than any other train.

It will leave Chicago at 12:01 p.m. and St. Louis at 4:04 p.m., and will arrive in Jacksonville at 8:50 p.m. the following day, in time to make connections with all night trains for southern Florida. The northbound train will leave Jacksonville at 9 a.m. on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday and will arrive in Chicago at 4:10 p.m. and St. Louis at 4:45 p.m. the next day. The first northbound train will leave Jacksonville December 7.

The Floridan will carry only Pullman passengers. Its equipment will be:

1 baggage-club car Chicago-Jacksonville
1 dining car Chicago-Jacksonville
1 10-section, 1-drawing-room, 2-compartment sleeper Chicago-Jacksonville
1 12-section drawing-room sleeper Chicago-St. Petersburg
1 12-section drawing-room sleeper St. Louis-Jacksonville
1 6-compartment-observation sleeper Chicago-Jacksonville

Beginning January 2 the 10-section, 1-drawing-room, 2-compartment sleeper will be operated from Chicago through to Miami, Fla. It will arrive there at 11:30 a.m. the second day after it leaves Chicago. The northbound train will leave Miami at 6:40 p.m. on Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

Effective January 2, the Floridan will arrive in Jacksonville at 9:10 p.m. The night train of the Florida East Coast Railroad will leave Jacksonville at 10 p.m.

The Floridan will continue through the first part of April. The punctual on-time  arrivals of the Seminole Limited will also be a feature of the Floridan.

The passenger department has issued a bulletin announcing the new train and requests that all possible publicity be given the one-night-on-the-road service from Chicago and St. Louis to Jacksonville, as well as the convenience afforded by the through Pullmans to St. Petersburg and Miami.

https://books.google.com/books?id=znJ_RPNe-CgC&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=%22the+floridan%22+%22illinois+central%22&source=bl&ots=B-8j8Bnz9z&sig=Tt3kiTzVWEF5C0K-VA_ne1Bo2_Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=a5sDVaXoIoaXNqCbg5AI&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=true

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, March 14, 2015 8:58 AM

Bingo we have a winner! Amtrak's short lived Floridian ran on the same route as had the South Wind.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, March 14, 2015 9:54 AM

KCSfan

 Deggesty

 What date in 1971? What area of the country?

May of '71. East of the Mississippi.

Mark

Mark,

No biggie, but this clue threw me off, since Amtrak's Floridian didn't come into being until November 1971.  From May to November 1971 Amtrak's Chicago-Florida train was known as the South Wind.

 

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Posted by KCSfan on Saturday, March 14, 2015 11:31 AM

ZephyrOverland

No biggie, but this clue threw me off, since Amtrak's Floridian didn't come into being until November 1971.  From May to November 1971 Amtrak's Chicago-Florida train was known as the South Wind

Thanks for the correction. I didn't look it up but just assumed the Amtrak train started off as the Floridian.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, March 14, 2015 12:01 PM

When I saw the answer given early this morning, I said to myself that could not be it--for I rode the South Wind from Indianapolis to Birmingham in July of 1971 (when I took a circle tour in April of 1971, I had to change trains in Louisville, for the South Wind had been truncated there the year before).

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Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, March 14, 2015 8:57 PM
In the spring of 1950, RCA Victor chartered a special train from New York to Richmond, Atlanta, New Orleans, Houston, Austin, Dallas, Pasadena, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Denver, St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Washington, Baltimore and Philadelphia.  What was the conductor’s name?
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Posted by Dragoman on Saturday, March 14, 2015 9:41 PM
ONE conductor for the entire trip?? Wow!
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Posted by wanswheel on Sunday, March 15, 2015 2:07 AM

The conductor whose name is known led an orchestra.

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, March 15, 2015 2:54 AM

Eugene Ormondy. Just a guess however.

Mark

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Sunday, March 15, 2015 9:24 AM

wanswheel
In the spring of 1950, RCA Victor chartered a special train from New York to Richmond, Atlanta, New Orleans, Houston, Austin, Dallas, Pasadena, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Denver, St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Washington, Baltimore and Philadelphia.  What was the conductor’s name?
 

Auturo Toscanini and the NBC Symphony Orchestra.  The observation car featured a keystone-shaped drumhead with "Toscanini Tour" emblazened in large letters surrounded with the RCA Victor and NBC logos.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 15, 2015 9:36 AM

Toscannini is correct, but the Eurgene Ormandy fans should not feel bad.   The very last passenger traini that left Philadelphia's Broad Street Station was an Eurgene Ormandy - Philadelphia Orchestra special, and a brass quartet performed on the back platform of the obs as the train left the station.  Possibly an arrangement of Taps?   Anyone know?

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Posted by rfpjohn on Sunday, March 15, 2015 12:08 PM

Wonder if he hooped up music on the fly?

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Posted by wanswheel on Sunday, March 15, 2015 2:10 PM
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Posted by NP Eddie on Sunday, March 15, 2015 6:37 PM

ALL:

Does anyone have a record of the consist of this train?

Ed Burns

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Sunday, March 15, 2015 8:55 PM

wanswheel
Too easy, Myron? Of course you're up!
 

Yes it was, especially since I'm a fan of the maistro.

On a side note, during my undergraduate days, I met Frank Miller, who at the time was giving a chamber concert at my university.  At one time he performed with the NBC Symphony under Toscanini and was part of this transcontinental tour.

 

As for the question - some time ago I posted a question of a possible coast to coast trip using trains of the same name.  That time the answer was the Columbian of the B&O/RDG/CNJ and Milwaukee Road, and this was physically possible for a number of years.

This time I'm looking for another trip from the Atlantic to the Pacific using trains of the same name.  This time this trip would not have been possible because one was a primarily heavyweight train and the other one was an Amtrak train.  Name the train(s), the RR's and the route this impossible trip would have taken.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 16, 2015 1:30 AM

Amtrak ran the National Limited from NY to KC.   I believe at one time there was a Sante Fe Chicago - LA National Limited that of course stopped in Kansas City.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, March 16, 2015 10:10 AM

daveklepper

Amtrak ran the National Limited from NY to KC.   I believe at one time there was a Sante Fe Chicago - LA National Limited that of course stopped in Kansas City.

 

Dave, I don't believe that Santa Fe had a National Limited.  Could you give me a time frame of the existance of this train so I can check on this?

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 16, 2015 2:09 PM

ZephyrOverland

 

 
daveklepper

Amtrak ran the National Limited from NY to KC.   I believe at one time there was a Sante Fe Chicago - LA National Limited that of course stopped in Kansas City.

 

 

 

Dave, I don't believe that Santa Fe had a National Limited.  Could you give me a time frame of the existance of this train so I can check on this?

 

 

There was none.   The correct answer is the New York Central's Southwestern Limited pre-Amtrak NYCity - St. Louis and Amtrak's renamed Super Chief 1974-1984 when it became the Southwestern Chief, Chi-LA.

The NYCetral's Southwestern did at one time have through sleepers to Texas points, but none to the West Coast.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, March 16, 2015 2:28 PM

Kind of a long walk from St. Louis to Kansas City... 

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, March 16, 2015 2:45 PM

daveklepper

 ZephyrOverland

 

daveklepper

Amtrak ran the National Limited from NY to KC.   I believe at one time there was a Sante Fe Chicago - LA National Limited that of course stopped in Kansas City.

 

Dave, I don't believe that Santa Fe had a National Limited.  Could you give me a time frame of the existance of this train so I can check on this?

 

There was none.   The correct answer is the New York Central's Southwestern Limited pre-Amtrak NYCity - St. Louis and Amtrak's renamed Super Chief 1974-1984 when it became the Southwestern Chief, Chi-LA.

The NYCetral's Southwestern did at one time have through sleepers to Texas points, but none to the West Coast.

 

Sorry Dave, still no cigar....

Amtrak's Super Chief was renamed the Southwest Limited (not Southwestern).  Also, as rcdrye pointed out, how do you account for the St. Louis-Kansas City segment, which neither train traveled on?

The hypothetical route that the train name was used on covered the Atlantic coast through the Pacific coast.

Another hint: one of the trains did not operate year-round.

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Monday, March 16, 2015 2:55 PM

I'd also like to point out the fact that this is supposed to be >50 years and that leaves Amtrak out of the discussion.  

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, March 16, 2015 3:13 PM

ZephyrOverland

This time I'm looking for another trip from the Atlantic to the Pacific using trains of the same name.  This time this trip would not have been possible because one was a primarily heavyweight train and the other one was an Amtrak train.  Name the train(s), the RR's and the route this impossible trip would have taken. 

The B&O's Columbian ran between Washington and Chicago. With a change of trains in Chicago one could continue on to Seattle/Tacoma on the Milw Road's Columbian. The only Amtrak train that ran coast to coast was the Sunset Limited.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, March 16, 2015 3:18 PM

FlyingCrow

I'd also like to point out the fact that this is supposed to be >50 years and that leaves Amtrak out of the discussion.  

 

Sorry Buck, Amtrak will be part of this discussion, as the train I'm looking for existed early in the company's history.  The 50 year limit is a guideline.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Monday, March 16, 2015 3:21 PM

KCSfan

 

ZephyrOverland
 
As for the question - some time ago I posted a question of a possible coast to coast trip using trains of the same name.  That time the answer was the Columbian of the B&O/RDG/CNJ and Milwaukee Road, and this was physically possible for a number of years.

This time I'm looking for another trip from the Atlantic to the Pacific using trains of the same name.  This time this trip would not have been possible because one was a primarily heavyweight train and the other one was an Amtrak train.  Name the train(s), the RR's and the route this impossible trip would have taken. 

 

The B&O's Columbian ran between Washington and Chicago. With a change of trains in Chicago one could continue on to Seattle/Tacoma on the Milw Road's Columbian. The only Amtrak train that ran coast to coast was the Sunset Limited.

Mark

 

Mark,

If you look at my original question, I already mentioned the Columbian as the answer for an earlier version of this question.  I'm looking for another name.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 17, 2015 6:16 AM

The CN Flagship The Dominion is well known, Montreal - Vancouver.   Might there once have been a Montreal - Halifax Dominion?  CP or CN?   Probably CP.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, March 17, 2015 8:49 AM

It certainly doesn't work in the Amtrak era...  But NYC&HR/LS&MS's 1893 Exposition Flyer terminated on the other side of the Chicago River from CB&Q-(D&SL)D&RGW-WP's Exposition Flyer.

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