WB&A used box motors for all freight work. East Washington did have a GE 44-tonner in later years before acquiring a 70 tonner from somewhere.
I remember seeing a Capitol Transit black steeplecab with white lettering. I assume then, that CT felt the WB&A box-cabs were too old and decrepit to be used and bought a steeple-cab or several from some other interurban, or possibly from the New Haven, who had quite a fleet of dc trolley-pole steeplecabs for the Manufacturer's Railroad in New Haven, and other freight servicde on local streetcar tracks in cities and towns served by the Connecticut Compnay. Or my memory may be wrong and it was a box-cab.
Well, I erred in picking that 1958 TT up out of my collection. I first found a 1958 Guide (I have none from 1957) from the top of a box, and then dug into my collection of passenger TT's--and skipped the one from 1957 that I have.
This morning, I went back to the NYC TT's, and found that you ae looking at one between the 4/15/56 and the 10/27/57 issues that I do have; both of which have the New York Special in them--and there is a difference in the consist of the train between the two; the earlier one does have eleven city pairs (including a Detroit-Hoboken car), and the later one has only ten (no interchange with the Lackawanna--and there are many other changes).
Back years ago, how would you travel in a through parlor car between Roanoke, Virginia, and Huntington, West Virginia?
Johnny
Even though Huntington is only a short ride from Ashland, where the ex-N&W line from Roanoke crsses the ex-C&O, I would guess that the best route would be via the C&O's James River line and Lynchburg VA. The most direct option would have been via Charleston W. Va and a connection to the NYC/Virginian train to Roanoke, but I don't recall the Virginian offering Parlor cars... If they had them they were retired during the 1930s.
This was a through train
I recall that the three through trains the C&O operated via Charlottesville, plus a local at the time, they also did have one Richmond or Newport News - Cincinnati train via the James River line. It was a local, but it may have had a parlor car. It may have been combined with one of the "passenger line" trains west of Huntington.
I suspect it was a parlor-buffet-diner.
The train, parlor car and coaches, did not approach the C&O's James River Line, nor did it go west of Huntington. It was a Roanoke-Huntington train, though coach passengers may have had to change at one point.
One more thing, on the subject of the WB&A/CT trackage in the Bennings/ Seat Pleasant area. East Washington's power was used to transfer coal form the B&O at Chesapeake Jct. to the Capital Transit's Deane Ave. line, where it was hauled to the power plant by CT steeplecabs. One of the steeplecabs was a 45 ton Baldwin unit with a one piece cast frame, built in 1906 for the Hoboken Shore RR. It came to DC via Iowa! The East Washington had a brand new GE 45 ton side rod unit to replace steam, supplimented by a Whitcomb center cab job they got from the Army and later on, an RS-1 from Washington Terminal. Capital Transit became interested in getting rid of the freight operation during the early 50's and ended up selling the now isolated section of freight trackage to the East Washington in 1954. Later pictures of the power plant show in plant shifting done by a fireless cooker.
I can't find this car in any of my OG's and while it seems a bit far fetched I'll throw it out as a guess anyway. N&W Between Roanoke and Kenova and Ohio Valley Electric from Kenova to Huntington. Coach passengers would have to change at Kenova
Mark
Virginian's 1910 timetable showed C&O connections at Deepwater W Va. Virginian operated its own Club cars at the time.
rcdrye Virginian's 1910 timetable showed C&O connections at Deepwater W Va. Virginian operated its own Club cars at the time.
Now, how many of you even thought of the Virginian, which operated deep into the coal country of West Virginia, intruding into the C&O's country?
The day train west of Roanoke carried the same numbers (13/14) as the night train east of there, but the equipment lists didn't show through cars. 3 and 4 were the day trains east of Roanoke. VGN passenger trains operated to Charleston over the Toledo and Ohio Central (New York Central) as long as service was provided west of Roanoke. TA and PA class ten wheeler and Pacific engines operated under Virginian's electrific overhead between Roanoke and Mullens. My grandfather was a director of the VGN until the N&W merger.
I'll post a new question later this evening.
Another train from a 1957 Official Guide... This train split into sections and then later recombined, in the process carrying Pullmans between seven different city pairs. One of the cars left the train in the middle of the night each night, only to reappear on the next day's train. One of the sections operated with only a snack chair car for food service.
this was one of the crack chicago - florida trains, all pullman, in the pre-streamlined era, where the candei or the prr carried a combinied train for cincinnati and/or louisville with separate trains running from those ponts to jacksonville, then combined on the fec to miami or on the acl to tampa and another acl to st pete. one rout was l&n the other probably southern.forget the details, but generally it is a chicago - florida train, and i imagine northern teminals served by the combination include detroit-toledo definitely, possibly cleveland, and southern points include jacksonville, miami, tampa, st, petersburg, possibly sarasota. the only chi-florida route that surely was not involved was the illinois central. i recall reading about the train,but forget the details. this part answer might save time for someone with the refernces to find the full answer.
The train ran all the way from end to end on the same railroad. In fact all of the cars that were added enroute came from the same railroad system.
OK. Then it is a Southern Washington - New Orleans train, via Atlanta and Bermingham. but with cars switched at Lynchburg to run via Monroe, Roanoke, and Bristol, rejoining at Birmingham. End destinations include Atlanta, Birmingham, Memphis, Chattanooga, New Orleans and possibly Shreveport and/or Raleigh on the south, and Washington, New York, and possibly Boston on the north. Almost all the equipment is Southern, with possibly a few N&W cars, but these would not be switched out to rejoin. Some Southern cars to see other railroads, including of course the PRR. The "Pelican"?
All cars originated and terminated on the same railroad, or a state-required subsidiary of the railroad. The same train name was used on both routes.
OK Back to the drawing board. And it was Monroe, not Lynchburg, anyway.
Ahah! A MoPac & T&P, one route via Dallas and one via Fort Worth, destinations at one end include Brownsville, El Paso, Houston, and Galvaston. N. end certainly St. Louis. Have to check for others.
MoPac and T&P, while allied, were not under entirely the same corporation until the early 1960s. You're moving into the right part of the country, though, and one of the cars originated at a Union Terminal shared with the T&P. The state mandated subsidiaries for the train I'm looking for all ended with the same words as the parent.
The mention of a car's being taken out in the middle of the night and then coming back in the next night made me think of a Chicago-Los Angeles car that stopped over in Grand Canyon.
Arriving at the total of seven city pairs takes careful study of the timetable, as the eastbound and westbound arrangements are not the same--at least in the 4/28/57 condensed timetable that I have.
The Northern section (trains 123 and 124) of the Grand Canyon had between Chicago and Los Angeles a 6 section, 1 drawing room, 4 double bedroom car and a 14 section car. Between the two cities via Grand Canyon there was an 8 section, 2 double bedroom, 2 compartment car and a 6 section, 6 roomette, 4 double bedroom car (but, they went east from Williams on the San Francisco Chief--are you counting these Los-Angeles to Grand Canyon assignments as a separate city pair?). Between Chicago and Phoenix there was an 8 section, drawing room, 3 double bedroom car.
The southern section, which ran separately between Kansas City and Winslow, had a Kansas City-Los Angeles 8 section, 1 drawing room, 2 compartment car, a Dallas (Union Station)-Los Angeles (which it picked up or dropped off in Clovis) 6 section, 6 roomette, 4 double bedroom car. Meal service between Waynoka and Clovis was provided in a snack chair car.
I still come up with only six pairs, unless the Grand Canyon cars carried east from WIlliams on the San Francisco Chief are counted as a city pair.
Johnny has the correct answer. I was counting the LA - Grand Canyon cars as the seventh pair.
The Grand Canyon lasted right up to April 1971, though the southern section was discontinued earlier, along with all of the Texas cars. Santa Fe's last active PAs worked the Grand Canyon regularly into 1970. in the August 1957 OG, the southern section carried 23/24, the norther 23/123/23 and 24/124/24.
In April of 1971, I was able to ride both the Grand Canyon and the San Francisco Chief, albeit for just a short distance (Joliet to Chicago for both trains) as I endeavored to cover as much route mileage before the advent of Amtrak (on the same trip, I met the woman whom I married, fifteen months later, on the City of Portland (we were on the same train for the same reason)).
What railroad did offer service to both Dallas and Ft. Worth by splitting and then recombining its trains? What were the junction points?
M-K-T Denison on the north and Hillsboro to the South.
While the lines from Ft. Worth and Dallas rejoined at Hillsboro, the trains were probably not reconnected to continue on to San Antonio until Waco which was the next station stop.
In the late 1950s the Texas Special and Bluebonnet swapped cars at Denison, but only met cross platform at Waco. The Texas Special 1/2 ran via Dallas and carried the through diner, the Bluebonnet 21/22 via Fort Worth got a meal stop at Waco southbound, Smithville or Fort Worth northbound. The original arrangement had a Fort Worth section (11/12) that only ran Denison-Fort Worth. M-K-T's only RDC held down the Wichita Falls connection (31/32) after 1956.
You're right. Through traffic boarding at either Dallas or Fort Worth did not warrant a recombining at Waco, for the MKT simply did not have the market. I thought of this off the top of my head after reading Dave's suggestion of a split before the two metropoli and a recombining after, that the MKT did have the parallel routes (though one involved extensive trackage rights).
If my question is deemed unsuitable, I do have another one.
From my seat, your questions are always welcome.
Johnny, the January 1930 OG shows the Dallas section of the southbound Bluebonnet leaving Denison at 5:25 am and the Ft. Worth section leaving at 5:30 am. Arrival and departure times at Dallas were 8:05 am and 9:00, respectively. It shows the other section arriving at Ft. Worth at 8:15 am and leaving at 9:00 am. The two sections were apparently combined at Hillsboro at 10:50 as the times from there to San Antonio were all the same. So at least this one MKT train serving both Dallas and Ft. Worth split at one point and were recombined at a later time and place.
Thanks, Mark. Perhaps I should have looked at my copy and thus made sure before posting the question. Now we wait for the next question
Looking back to the early days of this thread, I wonder what has become of some the peopple who contributed back then--Passenger Fan, Al-in-Chicago, Zepher Overland, and others. I know one of them is getting busy this time of the year with people who need his help in counting on their fingers and toes.
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