Well, Mark, even if you shot from the hip, you hit the target.
I never did ask my sister-in-law, who was born and grew up on a farm on US 219 in Monroe county, just across Second Creek from Greenbrier county, why the name. Perhaps there were many briers along it. My sister-in-law is now in a nursing home in Lewisburg.
It's beautiful country around there, which I have enjoyed seeing since September of 1948, when my mother and all six of her sons were at the wedding, which took place in the front yard of my sister-in-law's home. That was the last time we were all together.
Johnny
The self declared "Standard Railroad of the World" owned a narrow gauge line over which it ran mixed train service into the 1930's. Between what cities/towns did this train run and what was the name of the narrow gauge road prior to it being absorbed into the large railroad?
Mark
Waynesburg and Washington, in PA. That's the cities and the railroad name. The road existed on paper until at least Penn Central, and was the "owner" of PRR's Alco RS27s. Standard gauge in 1944?
Waynesburg and Washington's right-of-way was eventually utilized by Waynesburg Southern, another paper road established to build coal mine spurs eventually operated by Monongahela. The line was noted for unit coal trains with Detroit Edison road power.
The Waynesburg and Washington was one of two narrow gauge lines owned and operated by the PRR and probably had passenger service at an earlier time but by the 1930's was freight only AFAIK. I am looking for the other NG Pennsy line that had mixed train passenger service until 1931.
PRR's Ohio and Western ran from Bellaire to Zanesville Ohio until 1931.
rcdrye PRR's Ohio and Western ran from Bellaire to Zanesville Ohio until 1931.
Bingo, that's the right line Rob. Looking forward to your next question.
In an effort to reduce the cost of transporting coal, this Coal Company owned railroad acquired an interurban, which it continued to operate until after World War II. This action led to an ICC case that changed the way interurbans were regulated. Name the railroad, interurban and city the coal was destined for.
I think the interurban was the Hagerstown and Frederick, but I will have to do some research to come up with the rest of the aswer. A logical destination might be Baltimore.
I'm going to go with the Peidmont and Northern down in the Carolinas. Strong ties to the Duke family.
The coal was used to make steel. The coal company also had a private railroad built as part of the project. The P&N's attempt to bridge its two divisions was a casualt of the ICC's decision. H&F was part of Potomac Edison's empire, not a coal company's.
I think you are refering to the Youngstown and Southern, which I believe was owned by the same coal company as the Montour Railroad. The coal was supplied to mills in Youngstown, Ohio.
rfpjohnI think you are refering to the Youngstown and Southern, which I believe was owned by the same coal company as the Montour Railroad. The coal was supplied to mills in Youngstown, Ohio.
I'll accept that as the answer. The Y&S was acquired by Pittsburgh Coal (which also owned the Montour RR) to connect with their Pittburgh Lisbon and Western. PCC also had a private railroad from the PL&W to the Ohio River, getting them a .60/ton rate compared to a P&LE or PRR .85/ton. The ICC went back and forth on the Y&S's exemption as an interurban, eventually ruling against PCC on the rate. The exemption status ended up playing a role in several later decisions, including barring P&N from connecting its separated divisions.
Y&S ran suburban service from Youngstown until 1948, trolley freight until 1953. A bit of it survived as an industrial line for many years after that.
rcdyre: I got thinking about logical places for a coal hauling interurban to operate, then I remembered a Trains article about the P&LE from quite a few years ago, which had a nice map of the region, including the Y&S.
As I still have a question percolating in the other Classic Trains section, why don't you field the next one.
This order of streetcars which was built for a city where they never operated, was replaced in service by older cars when sold to yet a third city, and changed track gauge each time they were sold. Cities and track gauges.
PCCs ordered by Louisville, KY, Transit, for broad-gauge operationl, about 5ft,2-1/2in, sold to Cleveland for standard gauge, replaced with shrinking streetcar operations by 4000-series Peter-Witt cars (where not replaced by buses) when sold to Toronto with 4ft,10-1/2in gauge.
Correct - except that Toronto gauge is 4' 10 7/8" (1495 mm). This odd gauge allowed wagons without wheel flanges to ride in the flangeway on tram rail, and dates back to horsecars in 1861. Canadian railways used 5' 6" as their "standard" between 1851 and 1873.
Louisville used the fairly common "Pennsylvania" gauge, with some three rail track to accomodate interurbans. Columbus and Cincinnati Ohio also had broad gauge lines, with some mixed gauge.
Most interurbans had freight operations that in most cases did include movement of standard railroad freight cars over some of the interurbans' tracks. Obvious exceptions were interubans using other than standard gauge, but even there, some cases of a third rail for freight existed. In most cases, there were limitations because of city ordenances or tight curves or restricted clearances where regular freight cars could not be handled. Many interubans had their own freight cars with pivoting couplers that could be handled on the tightest curves, and these were interchaged between interuban lines for through interline service, often with the power going through as well. But I know of only one case where a class I railroad handled interuban feight trailers with radial coupleres with the Clas I's power, sometimes coupled to standard railroad freightcars. Who, where, and what?
Monon handled Indiana RR CERA box trailers with radial couplers from an interchange (on the former Terre Haute Indianapolis and Eastern) near Greencastle IN to a cement plant a few miles away. IRR also received standard freight cars in interchange at that location, so Monon often took or left mixed strings. See page 51 of CERA bulletin 128 "Indiana Railroad the Magic Interurban" for a photo. IRR handled a fair amount of railroad interchange at various locations, mostly coal, but the Greencastle interchange ran to box cars.
I wonder if they had extensive special instructions for maximum tonnage trailing, lineup of consists, etc. Jackknifing such equipment is a real possibility.
rfpjohn I wonder if they had extensive special instructions for maximum tonnage trailing, lineup of consists, etc. Jackknifing such equipment is a real possibility.
Looks like they only handled a few cars for a few miles. The radial couplers were designed to be fairly stiff, as traction operations often involved pushing them. IRR ran them in trains of over 10 cars on the Louisville and Fort Wayne lines.
rc is correct, as usual, and we now await his question
While I was digging around I also found that the Nickel Plate switched CERA boxcars belonging to Northern Ohio Traction & Light to a produce market in Cleveland.
This electric railroad, which was known for freight operations, owned several piggyback trailers, even though it never operated piggyback service.
Illnois Terminal
As far as I know, IT never had any piggyback operation in its electric years, but it didn't have any trailers either. The line I'm looking for was associated with other electric lines also known for freight operations.
Piedmont Northern
SACRAMENTO NORTHERN OR CENTRAL CALIFORNIA TRACTION
BOTH ESSENTIALY OWNED BY WP, WHO MAY HAVE ASSIGNED TRAILER OWNERSHIP TO ONE OR THE OTHER FOR ACCOUNTING PPURPOSES
Same time zone as Illinois Terminal.
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