OK, here's a little extra info: At its greatest length, the road connected with a class 1 at each end (different class 1's ). Its last locomotive was a diesel side-rod unit, which now resides in a museum. Both its narrow gauge and standard gauge titles suggested a much grander enterprise.
The road is the Virginia Central. I believe an earlier name was Potomac, Fredericksburg & Piedmont.
That's it! They had grand plans of extending all the way to the Chesapeake Bay along the banks of the Rappahanock River and west from Orange to the coal fields but the depression killed those dreams. The last remnant was still in operation when I went to work for the RF&P in 1980, including a very rickety looking trestle next to business route 17, south of Fredericksburg. RF&P crews actually switched its customers for a short time, using a burro crane as motive power!
CSSHEGEWISCH, the next question is yours.
The Chicago River & Indiana RR briefly held a distinction in the early 1960's. What was this distinction?
The only Chicago diesel commuter operation where coaches were NOT air-conditioned!
After 1958 the CR&I leased the Chicago Junction along with the Union Stock Yards and Terminal company, giving it effective control of the Stock Yards. Prior to that CR&I had leased only the CJ.
While there is some evidence that the Chicago Junction ran passenger trains, both on its own prior to 1922, and with parent New York Central after that, I think Dave is referring to the Chicago and Western Indiana, which ran non-A/C trains with RS1s to Dolton until 1960. CRI&P ran some non-A/C cars until the Metra takeover.
Correct, I thought of the Chicago and Western Indiana with its commuter fleet cojmpletely of non-air-conditioned Erie-style Stillwell coaches. RI had some, but also had some air-conditioned single level, either quarter-door or center-door cars. And its Airotrain.
CR&I existed as corporation, had a RoW,a physical plant, but zero operating and maintenance and sales people of its own.
CR&I did not operate any commuter trains, nor was it strictly a "paper" railroad like the Calumet Western.
CR&I had some locomotives, NYC with sublettering. Some of CR&I's switchers were unrebuilt Limas.
You're on the right track, keep digging.
Wait a minute... ALL of CR&I's engines were Limas. 21 800HP switchers (9800-9820) and 6 1200HP switchers (8406-8411).
rfpjohnA simple engine should exert a greater starting tractive effort than a similar compound.
I only just now saw this. A typical compound (Mallet) will exert SIGNIFICANTLY higher starting TE than a simple counterpart, since the intercepting valve delivers full steam pressure to all four cylinders at starting... of course, there is considerably higher steam consumption up to the point where the engine starts to work compound, but there is little question of the higher STE.
Probably not directly relevant to the question, but I thought rfpjohn and perhaps others might want to know...
I think the key phrase is "since the intercepting valve delivers full steam pressure to all four cylinders at starting". The compound locomotive is at that point operating as a simple engine. In the case of a triplex, with all six cylinders of the same dimension, a simple lcomotive should deliver the same TE as the compound operating simple. In a typical compound, when you blast full boiler pressure into those huge low pressure units, you will get alot of omph, but rapidly drain the boiler.
I dug out my copy of "Articulated Locomotives" by Lionel Wiener. In his discussion of triplex(i?) he makes no mention of the Virginian engine being simple. Westing's book is the only place I saw it. I trust the Wiener on this one.
IF THE BOILER HAS THE CAPACITY TO SUPPORT ALL THOSE CYLINDERS, EVEN IN JUST STARTING!!!
Virginian's 800 triplex could start simple, but simple or compound it ran out of steam fast, even when demoted to pusher service. Electrifying Clark's Gap made it surplus pretty soon after it was built. When it was rebuilt into a 2-8-8-0 (and a 2-8-2) it got a better firebox, which is what it needed in the first place.
rcdrye Wait a minute... ALL of CR&I's engines were Limas. 21 800HP switchers (9800-9820) and 6 1200HP switchers (8406-8411).
We have a winner. Incidentally, CR&I was considered a Class I road at the time it had its all-Lima roster, probably based on switching revenues in and around the Union Stock Yards.
rcdrye, your turn for a new question.
CR&I had a bunch of early EMC/EMD switchers but they had been transferred to parent NYC by thge early 1960s. The other nearby NYC Limas were the 1200 HP road switchers used at LaSalle and Central Stations, some or all of which had received EMD 567 engines by the 1960s. Story is that one of those showed up at Collinswood Shops in Cleveland with a note "Please build us a new engine."
This electric freight service for standard interchange freight cars operated for over fifty years under three owners without ever appearing on a waybill.
That would be the freight operation on what is now the Red Line by variously the Northwestern Elevated RR, Chicago Rapid Transit Co. and the Chicago Transit Authority. It was under a car-handling contract for the Milwaukee Road which began when MILW ended its suburban operation on the line in question when Northwestern Elevated leased the line for its rapid transit operation.
I wasn't sure the keys would cool off before you got that. From Buena Park near Montrose Ave. in Chicago (That's Bew-enna Park) to Evanston the NWERR and successors switched a number of CNS&M customers. The same pair of Baldwin-Westinghouse locomotives (S-104 and S-105) were used the entire time. At one point CMStP&P interchanged with the North Shore in Skokie via the CRT, but the insignificant car count (6 in 1946) ended that. Track 1, the westernmost track on the North Side main line, was equipped with a gantlet and overhead wire from Wilson to Granville, and overhead wire only (no third rail) from Granville to Howard. Howard, and Evanston stations, had gantlets (east side track in Evanston). After the last customer north of Granville quit, track 1 got third rail. Last operation, to Lill Coal near Berwyn Avenue, ran in 1973.
Evanston Express and CNS&M trains that used track 1 southbound operated off of the overhead wire north of Granville.
CMStP&P was the right-of-way owner for the North Side Main Line and the Evanston Branch CTA didn't get title until the 1970s.
Looking forward to your next question!
I'll stick with Chicago. Prior to the takeover by the Chicago Transit Authority in 1947, please name the northernmost, southernmost and westernmost points operated by the Rapid Transit Company.
North: Linden Avenue Wilmette (Evanston Branch)
West: 22nd and Mannheim Rd Westchester via CA&E and CW&W (Westchester Branch)
South: 69th st. and Parnell Avenue, Chicago (Normal Park Branch
This is a winner. Since then, the Dan Ryan Line has extended south to 95th Street and the Blue Line has extended into Douglas-Orchard Airport.
rcdrye, your question.
In honor of Dave Klepper's recent birthday, we'll do a Chicago-style trip like the New York ones he subjects us to.
Starting at the Madison/Wabash L station, take the longest loop possible in 1920 using only 600V electric lines. A couple of rules to to simplify:
1. Inside the city of Chicago, only the most direct route to the City line is necessary. You don't have to follow the lakefront or the City boundary.
2. It's not necessary for the track to connect, but you can't walk more than a block to make connections.
Is the rule that one must stay within the boundaries of Chicago? Otherwise, we can use some interurban lines and really cover a lot of the midwest in the process. For Chicago only, I would need a period CSL map, which may be possible on the web. For example, I don't know if or if not there was 1920-era east-west Howard Street streetcar or if any of the western north-south lines connected with the CRT Demster Street service at a local station. OR if that service is outside Chicago.
The loop runs a long way outside of Chicago. The rule is in place so you don't have to trace the edge of the city to get to the exit and re-entry point for the city. The first hint I'll give is that the route does not involve any of the North Side lines.
Well, if interurbans can be used, it involves going north to the most northern east-west streetcar line, out to western aveunue, south and east to the short-lived operator that competed with IC suburban and RI, using its connections south to the components that later made up Indian RR, then from Terre Haut east to Indianapolis and through Richmond to Dayoton, Dayton and Western, then the Dayton and Troy and back west to Fort Wayne, then the Winiona north from Peru, Northen Indiana Railways, Gary Railways, and CSL back to the loop. Should be possible around 1920. This is the approximate routing, but it would take a study of maps to pin down the exact routing.
In the era of the Indiana Railway, there was only the one connection, the Winona, between the Chicago interurban lines and the Indiana - Ohio - Michigan complex. But earlier there was another, father west, but it was really more a collecton of local streetcar lines, including the "interuban" that competed with the IC suburban and Rock Island,
And instead of going straight south on Western Avenue, a detour over some of the Chicago and West Towns lines might have added mileage to the loop, assuming the two divisions that I remember as separated were at one time connected (other than by CSL tracks), possibly by a line running north and south on La Grange Road. Time might have been saved by using the C&AE instead of a parallel C&WT streetcar without loosing mileage. I just don't know C&WT history well enough.
If you wish, I will postpone a definite answer, and start doing some research on the internet. Or if my basic approach is correct, you can flesh out the details by the knowledge you have if you wish to do so.
I am also amused by your reference to the Lake Front. The boulevard on the Lake Front was the exclusive domain of Chicago Motor Coach with its double-deck buses, a GM subsidiary, even in the 1920s.
Loops to the east don't quite complete in 1920, at least not at 600 Volts.
Here's the first leg: From the inner loop platform on the Madison/Wabash station, take any Garfield Park, Douglas Park or Logan Square train to Halsted. Change at Halsted to...
Oops, north from Dayton to Lima, then Lima to Fort Wayne and Peru. Should work.
Where are the gaps?
I thought all lines I suggested were 550-600V. What were the exceptions?
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