back to New York City transit. Up to March 1947, upon the conversion of the "T" Third and Amsterdam Avenues line to the M101 bus route, one could travel purely by streetcar from Coney Island at the south of Brooklyn to both the Yonkers - Hastings town line at Warburton Avenue, within site of the Central's Hudson Division and the River, and also to the New Haven's New Rochelle Station. One would need to use streetcar lines of both the New York City Transit Authority, formerly BMT's B&QT streetcar lines, and those of the Third Avenue Transit System. One would travel through Brooklyn, Manhattan, The Bronx, and either Yonkers to go to the Hastings Town Line or Mount Vernon, Pelham, and New Rochelle. The question is how many nickle fares will either northern destination require by streetcar. To answer, you must be precise and state how many nickle fares you pay in each of the boroughs and suburban towns. You are also to correctly answer the question, still with five-cent fares, would it have been less or more expensive to use subway trains a north terminal, for the one of two goal destinations chosen, and then use a streetcar (without diverting from a reasonably direct route just to obtain an interdivision free subway transfer}?
I'll tell you of my own experiences on this journey after the answer comes from one of you.
K4sPRR NYC press release
Excerpt from New York Central Lines Magazine, May 1924
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/magazine/images/magazine-0524.pdf
The New York Central Railroad management announced on April 22 the addition of a new extra-fare train to the West, effective Sunday, April 27. It has been named the "Ohio State Limited." The purpose of the train is to provide "Century" service between Boston and New York and the following cities in Ohio, viz.: Toledo, Columbus, Springfield, Dayton, Middletown and Cincinnati. Companion service is also provided for eastbound passengers for these Ohio cities to both New York and Boston. This new de luxe train will carry equipment similar to that of the "Twentieth Century Limited," consisting of all-steel sleeping cars, club car and dining cars.
This innovation of providing "Century" service to the large commercial and industrial centers of Ohio originated with G. H. Ingalls, Vice-President of the New York Central Lines in charge of traffic, and has been carried into operation by the management in recognition of the prominent rank gained by these communities in the business and financial affairs of the nation.
The new "Ohio State Limited" leaves New York daily for the West at 3 p.m., Eastern Standard time, 15 minutes after the departure of the "Twentieth Century Limited," and from Boston at 12:30 p.m. Passengers travelling in this train will arrive at Columbus at 7:25 a.m. (Eastern Standard Time), Springfield 7:27 a.m., and Dayton 8:07 a.m., Cincinnati 9:30 a.m., and Toledo 7:25 a.m. (all Central Time).
The train has been so scheduled as to be of advantage to business men by bringing them to Ohio city destinations early in the day, and preserving for them the opportunity of utilizing the maximum of morning business hours. The companion service eastward to New York and Boston has been so scheduled as to also insure early arrival in both eastern cities.
The "Ohio State Limited" westbound divides into two parts on arrival at Cleveland, one section continuing over the Big Four Route to Columbus and on to Cincinnati. The other section goes to Toledo, and will permit passengers to arrive there three hours earlier than is possible under existing train schedules.
"The inclusion of Toledo in the operation of the 'Ohio State Limited' was largely due to the vast automobile industry located in that city," said Vice-President Ingalls. "The urgent request for some time past of the automobile executives located there for rapid train service between their plants and the East resulted in the New York Central management extending this new train service to Toledo."
Because of this recognition of the automobile industry's needs, the train already has been nicknamed in the West the "Automobile Special."
I didn't earn it (although I did have a response touting Toledo as not only an auto manufacturing area (Pope-Toledo and Willys-Overland) but a major components supplier (auto glass, Champion spark plugs, and the like, I didn't post it!)
It's yours, Mr. Klepper.
RME can pose the next one if he wants. Otherwise, I will have one ready.
daveklepper The autoworker? The machinist? The assembly line?
The autoworker? The machinist? The assembly line?
Congratulations Dave, close enough. The Ohio State Limited mentioned in a NYC press release on 24 April 24 stated the Toledo connection was due to the "vast automobile industry located in that city". It also stated "the train has already been nicknamed in the west as the "automobile special", the old appalation for fast trains of "banker special"....
Thought this one would be easier but I have to remind myself that for many of us who dive into the glamour of railroad history, territorial considerations do apply. So Dave and RME (appropriate thoughts on bootleggers), nice piece of work...next question please (Dave or RME have the floor.).
Probably rum-runners/bootleggers - Toledo was famous as a 'haven' for Detroit folks, and both Detroit and Toledo had relatively good 'lake' access to Canada.
But I have not been able to find definitive proof either of the nickname or any 'reputation' the Toledo-Cleveland section might have had to cater to those folks.
There were other trains that got the 'bootlegger' monicker: the southbound Montrealers (technically I suppose 'Washingtonians'; the original '20s version, not the trains Mike's father got re-established) had this sort of reputation, and I believe the Amtrak Vermonter was nicknamed 'the Boot' until comparatively recently.
Probably not found in TT's, this is more in line with the railroading "banker special" designations. Clue: Toledo and its proximity to Detroit played a part in this train being split in Cleveland catering to certain patrons.
I have this sinking feeling that the NYC timetable from 1929 on p.36 of the 1979 Timetables volume (which had the Motor Queen of the previous question prominently displayed) may contain the required name ... but I don't have that material. At least it isn't the "Royal Buckeye Flyer".
Right, the Ohio State Limited as RME also mentioned. Its inagural nickname was due to its western destination in Ohio...your closing in on it.
Aha! The Ohio State Limited, the Buckeye, NY (and Boston) - Cincinnati, Toledo
The Empire State Express served both Detroit and Cleveland,splitting at Buffalo, (in its last years handled the Laurntian equipment to Albany-Renselaer as well); the Southwestern served both St. Louis and Cincinnati, splitting at Cleveland and possibly picking up a Cleveland nickname, but my memory slips on what that would that would be.
In all fairness I think Dave was over thinking somewhat and overlooked the obvious. So far, aided by clues, portions of the mystery solved; the NYC, Cleveland Ohio where the NYC split some of it passenger trains (ie: Mercury) and Toledo. Still what was the train and nickname tagged to it. (Think, Dave thousands of fans world wide are rooting for you !!!)
For the love of God, Montresor, it's a train like the Ohio State Limited that split in Cleveland, with one part going to Cincinnati and the other one almost surely to Toledo. I have no idea what the nickname or the reason for it was, which is why I haven't said anything, but surely someone could have noted the obvious.
Think, Ohio....New York Central.
Possibly the Erie had a train from Jersey City (NYCity Metropolitan area) to both Cleveland and Buffalo, which split at Hornell, and was nicknamed the Glassblower for its stop in Corning, NY, east of Hornell.
Was the Ann Arbor the railroad? It had a line from Toledo, I think, to two Lake Michigan ports, and its one passenger train each way split to serve those two ports. It did not touch Detoit.
K4sPRR Thanks Dave, lets stick with passenger trains in the 1920's and the midwest. This train originates at a large metropolitan area departing at such a time to insure early morning arrivals for specific midwest cities. Traveling west at one location on its route it splits into two seperate trains to accomodate some of its intended patrons. For its time this train was given a somewhat unique nickname in the same fashion as some trains being tagged "bankers specials". One of its stops was responsible for this trains nickname, which ironically was tagged on its maiden voyage. Name the railroad, the actual train name, its nickname and the city responsible for the tag. (First parts are easy, the last two may take some thinking.)
Thanks Dave, lets stick with passenger trains in the 1920's and the midwest. This train originates at a large metropolitan area departing at such a time to insure early morning arrivals for specific midwest cities. Traveling west at one location on its route it splits into two seperate trains to accomodate some of its intended patrons. For its time this train was given a somewhat unique nickname in the same fashion as some trains being tagged "bankers specials". One of its stops was responsible for this trains nickname, which ironically was tagged on its maiden voyage. Name the railroad, the actual train name, its nickname and the city responsible for the tag.
(First parts are easy, the last two may take some thinking.)
Don't give up Dave...clue "think Ohio".
Included in a appopriate posting earier. well, Yankee Stadium is not very far, so should we look for ''The Ballplayer''?
Your inching your way there, Detroit is in the general area of the target city.
I should have mentioned Detroit as a western destination for the Sportsman, with the C&O using the Michigan Central Station then the Fort Street Station, and then moved back to the Michigan Central Station. This revolved on its control of the B&O and then merger.
Other train names for east-west service that denote occupations include the Scout for AT&SF, the Prairie Marksman (RR?) the Forty-Niner (C&NW-UP-SP), and possibly the IC's Land-o-Corn, which did split and served both Soux City and Omaha.
In the east wwe had the PRR's Admiral and General, wast-est trains, but with only one wwestern destination, and trains which were not east-west, like the Clamdigger, Senator, Congressional, the Broker. Maybe I need a hint or am comopletely unfamiliar with the train and route.
Sorry Dave, go a little more north. Here's a clue, this particular train made its split at a city once known as the best location in the nation. Good luck !
TheC&O Sportsman, for Louisville and the Kentucky Derby and to Cincinnati with through cars to Chicago handled by the New York Central. At the Eastern end, service splitting at Charlottesville, but running ont he same tracks to Gordonsville, to both Newport News for Norfolk and via an Orange entrance to Souithern tracks, then RF&P over the Long Bridge to Washington.
In my teenage days flying pumps Pacifics or Hudsons east of Charlottesvfille and Greenbriar 4-8-4's west of Charlottesville. Comfortable reclining-seat, air-conditioned heavyweight six-wheel truck coaches, heavyweight Pullmans. and a lounge-obs for Pullman passengers only at the rear, a classic diner separating the coaches form the sleepers. An RPO and combine up front. Alwaysclean and well-maintained, even during WWII. Oftern late arriving in Washington because of congestion at Alexandria and north over the bridge.
I hope this is the one you want, but I am not certain, since I do not remember a nickname.
The FFV, the Fast Flying Virginian, might also qualify.
If K4 wishes to ask the next, happy to have him do so.
Wow. I wasn't expecting an answer while I was editing mine. You gentlemen are free to determine the winner. Wish I'd waited another minute.
The NYC Motor Queen.(?)
The train name is a combo of both endpoint cities' nicknames.
Big Four and Michigan Central fielded the "Motor Queen" in 1929. It is considered the prototype for NYC's Mercury fleet, along with some other semi-lightweight 1930s trains built by NYC out of commuter coaches - and even some late 1930s lightweight all-coach trains like the Trailblazer and the various Florida streamliners. The Chicago-Detroit train was the "Motor City Special", which lasted until 1967 as a name train, though its schedule continued until at least 1971. Go ahead with the next question, Dave.
Note that the C&LE/DUR "Red Devils" never ran directly against the "Motor Queen", but plenty of motorists did.
I also found Queen City, West Queen, Seven Hils, and Porkopolis or Pork City.
I also know that the Michigan Central, NYCentral System, had a coach and parlor Motor City Express from Chicago to Detroit.
Youi did not state clearliythatthe oate-30's fleet was for the same railroad as the specific earliy 20's train. So possibly the fleet is that of the UP and connenctions for City of --- everything from Selinaas to LA...
so maybe theB&O or the Central-Big Foiur had a City of Seven Hills, and from Chicag fo Cincinnati was called the Seven Hills Limited or Express or Flyer or whatever.
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