I know you are all having a blast, but nobody is coming close to the answer. So to end this agony...here it is.
The 1905 ACL ETT for this division. "All trains operate on Eastern Time to Central Junction. From Central Junction to Savannah Union Station, trains shall operate on CENTRAL TIME." Go figure. Anybody got a reasonable explanation for this? None of us in the historical society do. Next...draw straws and somebody else gets the floor. Thanks for your interesting answers.
KCSfan Deggesty KCSfan Before entering the station was the engine uncoupled and run around the cars to back the train into the train shed? Mark That's an interesting thought. Still, someone would have had to be on the rear of the engine to tell the engineer to stop short of the bumping post--unless bumping the post was an acceptable practice. And, unless the engine was changed in Savannah, the process would have had to be reversed when leaving. More than once I've ridden on the City of Miami and/or Southwind from Bradenton on the ACL's Tampa-Sarasota line. At Tampa's Uceta Yard the train would take the east leg of the wye then back into the Tampa station. The conductor would stand at the folding gate at the rear vestibule and blow air whistle warnings at the several grade crossings the train traversed. I can't recall for sure, but think he slowed and stopped the train at the bumping post using the car's brake air valve. It's possible he informed the engineer when to stop using the communicating air signal valve. Mark
Deggesty KCSfan Before entering the station was the engine uncoupled and run around the cars to back the train into the train shed? Mark That's an interesting thought. Still, someone would have had to be on the rear of the engine to tell the engineer to stop short of the bumping post--unless bumping the post was an acceptable practice. And, unless the engine was changed in Savannah, the process would have had to be reversed when leaving.
KCSfan Before entering the station was the engine uncoupled and run around the cars to back the train into the train shed? Mark
Before entering the station was the engine uncoupled and run around the cars to back the train into the train shed?
Mark
That's an interesting thought. Still, someone would have had to be on the rear of the engine to tell the engineer to stop short of the bumping post--unless bumping the post was an acceptable practice. And, unless the engine was changed in Savannah, the process would have had to be reversed when leaving.
More than once I've ridden on the City of Miami and/or Southwind from Bradenton on the ACL's Tampa-Sarasota line. At Tampa's Uceta Yard the train would take the east leg of the wye then back into the Tampa station. The conductor would stand at the folding gate at the rear vestibule and blow air whistle warnings at the several grade crossings the train traversed. I can't recall for sure, but think he slowed and stopped the train at the bumping post using the car's brake air valve. It's possible he informed the engineer when to stop using the communicating air signal valve.
Johnny
Along the same line, when an AMtrak train backs into New Orleans, a "safety stop" is made before the final stop. I never knew such when I was going into NOUPT in the sixties.
rcdrye Was there a separate unloading area for Jim Crow equipment?
Was there a separate unloading area for Jim Crow equipment?
The only time I was in that station, I probably was fast asleep; I was two years old and the only thing I remember about the trip was looking out a window with a coat over my head (to block the light inside the car) soon after we left Jacksonville.
HINT: "peculiar for this location". HINT 2. I picked this up from a reproduction of a timetable for around the turn of the century we ran in LINES SOUTH (ACL & SAL HS). Nobody can explain it.
1. All trains had to back into the station. 2. All trains had to come to a full stop with the rear, now leading, at the outer end of the platform before proceeding further into the station.
I know it was a stub ended station but I've been unable to find anything unusual about operations there. It's just a guess but maybe trains were preceded by a mounted rider on horseback like the way ACL trains were in Gainsville, FL.
I'm working on a question...sometime today!
Ok..this is a little goofy, but true:
In a curious move for which, to date, there has been no written explanation, before WW1 trains operating into Savannah's Union Station were governed by this rule peculiar for the location.
That's it! Although the Texas and Northern California legs were only operated as California Limited sections some of the time, the train ran on both the northern and southern transcon, with cars from Chicago, New Orleans (MP) via Houston, and DFW, to Los Angeles and Richmond/Oakland. By the early 1950s it had become a meal stop train for part of its run and lost most of its sleepers, carrying a lot of local mail and express. In the 1910s and early 1920s, before the Chief was inaugurated, as many as seven sections were operated in busy periods, some all-Pullman.
I'm going to counterattack with The California Limited. DFW, Chicago, Los Angeles, SFO with through sleeping cars from everywhere to anytime!
This train "system" operated under a single name, like the Sunshine Special.
The UP Overland Limited, with eastern destinations Chicago, St. Louis, and the Twin Cities, and west coast destinations Portland (or Seattle?), Oakland, and Los Angeles.
Just back your first answer up a couple of decades and think heavyweight (and often multiple section).
How about the Santa Fe's Grand Canyon? Chicago-Los Angeles across Colorado and across Oklahoma and Texas; Chicago-LA cars, Dallas-LA car, and New Orleans-Oakland car.
Via C&EI and L&N, Chicago to New Orleans was more than 1000 miles; Santa Fe's route between Oakland and LA is over 500 miles.
Think the Sunshine Special's route pattern set on its side.
Thie train I'm looking for never quite got out of the heavyweight era, and shared much of its route structure with streamlined trains that were well known even outside of railroad circles.
The primary endpoints were the northeast and southwest, but the train was advertised from time to time with the southeast and northwestern endpoints.
rcdrye This well known western train was really a system of trains that ran into the early 1950s under the same train name in multiple sections over various routes, with three eastern endpoints and two western endpoints. The northern- and southernmost of the eastern endpoints were over 1000 miles apart, the northern- and southernmost of the western endpoints about 500 miles apart. Name the railroad, the train, and at least four of the endpoints.
This well known western train was really a system of trains that ran into the early 1950s under the same train name in multiple sections over various routes, with three eastern endpoints and two western endpoints. The northern- and southernmost of the eastern endpoints were over 1000 miles apart, the northern- and southernmost of the western endpoints about 500 miles apart. Name the railroad, the train, and at least four of the endpoints.
Would this be MP's Sunshine Special? Eastern endpoints would include New York, St. Louis and Memphis. Western endpoints would include San Antonio and El Paso.
Buck had the right geography, just the wrong carrier(s) and trains.
If he was sort of on the right track, then possibly the Rock Island Rocket(s) is the right anwer, with the westernmost going as far as Tucomcarri, one split to go to Denver and Colorado Springs, and Memphis and Chicago two of the eastern terminals.
I think this is the answer, but you may possibly be thinking of the C&NW 400s or the Zephyrsm but most of these lasted into the 1960s, not just the 1950s.
You're sort of on the right track. That was the RI/SP version...
Just what popped into my head - The Californian . But the mileage doesn't work out.
Rob:
Wow!!! You are good. It is interesting that the MSTL bought the RDC's and coaches and did not keep them very long.
Next question to you.
Ed Burns
They must be the ones they bought to use with the gas-electrics.
M&St. L 50,52-55 and 51 (Budd 1948) ended up as CRI&P 362-367 in 1956 and 1957.
362 Missouri
363 Herington
364 Duncan
365 El Reno
366 Silvis
367 Armourdale
Dave: Nope.
You have the right railroad, but the MSTL traded their two RDC's to the C&O for 32 coal hoppers.
Or were they the coaches M&St. L purchased that were later traded to C&O for an equal number of hopper cars?
were the six lightweight self-contained coaches purchased by the Georgia Railroad for use on mixed trains? Then went to the Southern and modified as regular steam-heat coaches?
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