Wans, you continue to amaze me.
Mark
Fantastic answer. There's a mention of the Bristol RR in Shaughnessy's "The Rutland Road". I haven't been able to find a photo of the railcar. The New Haven Jct. station still stands, in use by Roundtree Construction as an office, with a couple of sidings for Phoenix Feeds north of the station served by Vermont Ry.
wow!!!
This is a booger! I've been through everything from the Ferdinand , to the Hartwell, Bowdon, Talbotton Road, Cadiz, blah blah. Every baling wire hayburning outfit I can think of and none meet this criteria. I know I'm going to feel stupid when the answer is given.
The chronically cash-short TStL&W was affiliated with the Chicago and Alton for a number of years, so I'm guessing it used C&A's rights until the affiliation fell apart. I can't find anything that says that NYC&StL joined TRRA after acquiring the Clover Leaf, but that would have become moot with the 1964 N&W takeover, when Wabash's rights could be used. CP&StL never had two nickels to rub together.
Over its almost thirty year history this six mile long railroad had, in succession, a Forney tank engine, a gas-mechanical railcar, and an ex-Southern RR 4-4-0 for which it did not have a turntable. The line's junction station with the outside world is still in existence, and has Junction in its name.
The CP&StL I was not surprised about. The Clover Leaf Route - aka - the Nickel Plate Road. That was one. So..
You got it....!!! Have at it.
Toledo St Louis and Western, Chicago, Peoria and St Louis
Nope and nope. Sorry.. Go back over the list of turn of the (20th) century RR's that included St. Louis in their route map.
For Dave's benefit, the Chicago & Eastern Illinois was the last RR to join.
C&EI?
Since I only need two... Litchfield and Madison and M-K-T.
IT for sure, that's correct. They interchanged with the TRRA but did not rely on TRRA for services, so we can count them. M&O. Yep. the other two - one's a bit inobvious because although it was a flourishing system at one time, it sort of vanished in pieces and parts. The other is a surprise, but makes sense when you think about it. Keep going! I only need the TWO now. Dave and RCD are tied.
M&O, Southern, Alton and Southern
DEFINITELY ILLINOIS TERMINAL
GUESSES: ALTON, THEN GM&O, ROCK ISLAND
The question is...the Three (3) of the railroads who opted NOT to join the TRRA of St. Louis , rather wished only to be billed for services.
Be right with you kind folks!
I'm going to give this to FlyngCrow in the hopes of keeping the quiz going. GN trains entered Mountain Time at Minot, while Soo trains stayed on Central Time, except for the Whitetail branch west from Flaxton ND, since abandoned. Soo trains entered the Eastern time zone at Gladstone MI on the way to Sault Ste Marie.
Deggesty KCSfan Deggesty KCSfan Before entering the station was the engine uncoupled and run around the cars to back the train into the train shed? Mark That's an interesting thought. Still, someone would have had to be on the rear of the engine to tell the engineer to stop short of the bumping post--unless bumping the post was an acceptable practice. And, unless the engine was changed in Savannah, the process would have had to be reversed when leaving. More than once I've ridden on the City of Miami and/or Southwind from Bradenton on the ACL's Tampa-Sarasota line. At Tampa's Uceta Yard the train would take the east leg of the wye then back into the Tampa station. The conductor would stand at the folding gate at the rear vestibule and blow air whistle warnings at the several grade crossings the train traversed. I can't recall for sure, but think he slowed and stopped the train at the bumping post using the car's brake air valve. It's possible he informed the engineer when to stop using the communicating air signal valve. Mark I have a memory of observing the conductor as he stopped the train by dumping the air by using the valve on the monkey tail as we were backing into New Orleans. I think this is more sure than having the conductor give the engineer two shorts on the communicating line. I think it is still possible for the conductor to stop the train when arriving in Denver or New Orleans in the same manner (I know that the the CZ carries a loong monkey tail).
KCSfan Deggesty KCSfan Before entering the station was the engine uncoupled and run around the cars to back the train into the train shed? Mark That's an interesting thought. Still, someone would have had to be on the rear of the engine to tell the engineer to stop short of the bumping post--unless bumping the post was an acceptable practice. And, unless the engine was changed in Savannah, the process would have had to be reversed when leaving. More than once I've ridden on the City of Miami and/or Southwind from Bradenton on the ACL's Tampa-Sarasota line. At Tampa's Uceta Yard the train would take the east leg of the wye then back into the Tampa station. The conductor would stand at the folding gate at the rear vestibule and blow air whistle warnings at the several grade crossings the train traversed. I can't recall for sure, but think he slowed and stopped the train at the bumping post using the car's brake air valve. It's possible he informed the engineer when to stop using the communicating air signal valve. Mark
Deggesty KCSfan Before entering the station was the engine uncoupled and run around the cars to back the train into the train shed? Mark That's an interesting thought. Still, someone would have had to be on the rear of the engine to tell the engineer to stop short of the bumping post--unless bumping the post was an acceptable practice. And, unless the engine was changed in Savannah, the process would have had to be reversed when leaving.
KCSfan Before entering the station was the engine uncoupled and run around the cars to back the train into the train shed? Mark
Before entering the station was the engine uncoupled and run around the cars to back the train into the train shed?
That's an interesting thought. Still, someone would have had to be on the rear of the engine to tell the engineer to stop short of the bumping post--unless bumping the post was an acceptable practice. And, unless the engine was changed in Savannah, the process would have had to be reversed when leaving.
More than once I've ridden on the City of Miami and/or Southwind from Bradenton on the ACL's Tampa-Sarasota line. At Tampa's Uceta Yard the train would take the east leg of the wye then back into the Tampa station. The conductor would stand at the folding gate at the rear vestibule and blow air whistle warnings at the several grade crossings the train traversed. I can't recall for sure, but think he slowed and stopped the train at the bumping post using the car's brake air valve. It's possible he informed the engineer when to stop using the communicating air signal valve.
I have a memory of observing the conductor as he stopped the train by dumping the air by using the valve on the monkey tail as we were backing into New Orleans. I think this is more sure than having the conductor give the engineer two shorts on the communicating line. I think it is still possible for the conductor to stop the train when arriving in Denver or New Orleans in the same manner (I know that the the CZ carries a loong monkey tail).
Johnny
So look at a time zone map, and consider that railroad timetable changes don't always follow the rest of the world...
Hmm..well. Today Gladstone puts you , I think, into the Eastern Time Zone. So methinks this has something to do with time changes and Canada. On the other hand, I'm probably delusional.
For westbound Soo Line Trains to do what the GN trains were doing, they would have had to go all the way east to Gladstone Michigan.
Think about the question that preceded this one.
Did the GN stop to acknowledge that the crossing had been cleared or stop for train orders instead of picking them up on the fly?
Just to kickstart... The Soo Line and Great Northern (now CP and BNSF) cross in Minot ND on the way west. Just past the crossing going west within sight of the station GN trains did something that Soo Line trains never did, except on one now-abandoned branch line.
If nobody else steps up to the plate...........
RC?
I thought it bizarre enough I sent an email to the C of GA HS folks thinking it was the Central's fault. Not true or they're not 'fessing up to it. So ? There's a real tongue chewer maybe somebody can find the real answer to some day.
I thank Mr. RCDye for the nomination, but, I really need to pass the baton. So whomever - wherever. All this is fascinating stuff!!!
ABD
My daughter-in-law's family lives in Valley Alabama, near the Georgia line. The ET/CT line is a bit west of there - NOT following the state line. Her folks refer to "Fast Time" and "Slow Time" to distinguish between time zones.
FlyingCrow I know you are all having a blast, but nobody is coming close to the answer. So to end this agony...here it is. The 1905 ACL ETT for this division. "All trains operate on Eastern Time to Central Junction. From Central Junction to Savannah Union Station, trains shall operate on CENTRAL TIME." Go figure. Anybody got a reasonable explanation for this? None of us in the historical society do. Next...draw straws and somebody else gets the floor. Thanks for your interesting answers.
I know you are all having a blast, but nobody is coming close to the answer. So to end this agony...here it is.
The 1905 ACL ETT for this division. "All trains operate on Eastern Time to Central Junction. From Central Junction to Savannah Union Station, trains shall operate on CENTRAL TIME." Go figure. Anybody got a reasonable explanation for this? None of us in the historical society do. Next...draw straws and somebody else gets the floor. Thanks for your interesting answers.
As the years have gone by, the line between the Eastern and Central time zones has been moved west. In 1947, Chattanooga was in the Central Zone; by 1953, the line had been moved to a little west of Chattanooga.
Perhaps the trains were stopped short of the platform in Savannah so that all on board could reset their watches if it were necessary.
I nominate FlyingCrow for another question. It's a great pleasure to duel with folks who can ask questions of this caliber. Any seconds?
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