Convicted OneI haven't been able to stop washing my hands ever since...."out-out, damn spots!!"
FB meme - "I've washed my hands so much that my crib notes from college are starting to show..."
OTOH, I recently read that the touch screens used for ordering at a well known hamburger chain were testing positive for fecal matter... Maybe that will change...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Another paradigm shifts--
NEWS ARTICLE FROM BLOOMBERG:
IN THIS LINK: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-19/coronavirus-in-young-people-is-it-dangerous-data-show-it-can-be
Yes, Young People Are Falling Seriously Ill From Covid-19
In the U.S., 705 of first 2,500 cases range in age from 20 to 44.
By Michelle Fay Cortez
and Angelica LaVito
March18, 20209:09PM
BaltACDNo blockade.
Now they've closed thw US/Canada border to all but essential crossings, likely a good thing.
Funny how a shift in perspective changes one's regard for restraint.
Miningman" Blockade getting worse.. now Amtrak affected" Still applies strangely enough.
Still applies strangely enough.
No blockade. Pandemic getting worse. Amtrak affected.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
" Blockade getting worse.. now Amtrak affected"
Convicted One Now I've got those two big stimulus checks coming, and the stores won't have anything to sell.
Now I've got those two big stimulus checks coming, and the stores won't have anything to sell.
And the next big shortage will be money.
By the way, does anyone remember the title of this thread?
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Murphy SidingDid you scrub your hands and arms with rubbing alcohol before you got in your car?
I haven't been able to stop washing my hands ever since...."out-out, damn spots!!"
Convicted One Murphy Siding Maybe you need to find some better stores to frequent? There really is something mesmerizing about walking into a store you've shopped for years, only to find barren shelves throughout the store. No packaged hot dogs or sausage, no prepackaged coldcuts, no "meal in a pouch" type microwave meals, milk, eggs butter all gone, canned soup...almost all gone...canned tuna gone.....major holes in the frozen foods section. Bread only a very few loaves left. I've never seen anything like it. It actually inspired me to stock up for that "just in case" potential. I haven't bought peanut butter in over 15 years, but since they were just putting a few new cases out, I decided to stockpile the protein and grabbed 2. I felt cheap and used afterwards.
Murphy Siding Maybe you need to find some better stores to frequent?
There really is something mesmerizing about walking into a store you've shopped for years, only to find barren shelves throughout the store.
No packaged hot dogs or sausage, no prepackaged coldcuts, no "meal in a pouch" type microwave meals, milk, eggs butter all gone, canned soup...almost all gone...canned tuna gone.....major holes in the frozen foods section. Bread only a very few loaves left.
I've never seen anything like it. It actually inspired me to stock up for that "just in case" potential. I haven't bought peanut butter in over 15 years, but since they were just putting a few new cases out, I decided to stockpile the protein and grabbed 2.
I felt cheap and used afterwards.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
54light15 I was in London a few years ago when the chowderhead transport minister said that there might be a trucker's strike so you'd better fill your car with petrol as there won't be any deliveries. So, there were lines at all the gas stations and people filled jerricans and whatever container that would hold gas. Some people brought the filled cans into their homes. Fumes leaked and ignited in several cases killing people. It turned out, there was no trucker strike.
I was in London a few years ago when the chowderhead transport minister said that there might be a trucker's strike so you'd better fill your car with petrol as there won't be any deliveries. So, there were lines at all the gas stations and people filled jerricans and whatever container that would hold gas. Some people brought the filled cans into their homes. Fumes leaked and ignited in several cases killing people. It turned out, there was no trucker strike.
I guess it was about a week ago when I was reading NJ.com on line and the Lieutenant Governor of New Jersey at a COVID-19 press conference advised people to stock up with two weeks worth of groceries and sundry supplies.
"Oh great," I said to Lady Firestorm, "Just guess what gonna happen?"
It did. It did.
And it wasn't just toilet paper that disappeared, so did everything else.
There was such a frenzy at a local Shop-Rite a friend of mine said he couldn't get within blocks of the place. Luckily he was just going for odds 'n ends, nothing he couldn't live without, so he just went home.
I suppose that a savvy merchant could hold back on restocking the most popular brands, inducing a little panic and getting shoppers to buy the less popular alternatives.
Flintlock76 There's nothing wrong with the supply chain and plenty to go 'round if people keep their heads.
The mindset that came over me was "well, if everybody else is going to hoard, then nothing will be left for me" SO, I spent $90 instead of the $60 I had planned.
Afterall, it was for me.....
And there's no excuse for the panic buying and hoarding. There's nothing wrong with the supply chain and plenty to go 'round if people keep their heads.
Maybe that's asking too much?
Day before yesterday I was at the local supermarket, found what I needed, then out of curiousity went down the paper products aisle just to look at the TP situation. All wiped out. No pun intended.
And yes, it was surreal.
The last time I saw toilet paper aisles empty was in 1973 during the gas crunch when Johnny Carson made a joke to the effect of "What's next? A toilet paper shortage?" Within 24 hours the joke became it's own reality.
Murphy SidingMaybe you need to find some better stores to frequent?
I use the store wipes on cart handles going in, and also wipe my hands down with another of those to get rid of any dirt I may have picked up since the last hndwashing. I then make copious use of the hand sanitizer, usually once each time I pass a container or pump, and carefully go through the 'scrub' to get fingers, wrists, and ensure mechanical agitation rather than just spreading the stuff around. I do not pretend this is a substitute for soap-and-water washing with some reasonable surfactant product.
Like Euclid, I usually do not wipe off the 'normal' hand sanitizer, but keep rubbing until the alcohol content has nearly evaporated. On the other hand, when I come across that awful lotion stuff I almost always have to head for something to wipe it down -- either a cart-handle wipe or TP/paper towels in the bathroom.
There is a difference between disinfecting "germs" with 91% alcohol and sanitizing viral content of surface contamination. Where there is metabolism to be arrested e.g. by disruption of a lipid bilayer the stronger alcohol probably makes sense. However, viruses are not 'alive' in that sense, so denaturation of the internal proteins and genomic material is the 'important' action, not solution of envelope lipids -- and as previously noted, using alcohol weaker than 91% has been demonstrated to work better.
Of course, you can easily produce the lower-strength alcohol easily by simple dilution of the 91%, right in the existing bottles or sprays like the ones Euclid carries around, so there's very little need to change either the routine or the practice. It would be a good idea to wet down any part of hands or arms that contacts potentially-infectious surfaces, keeping solution on them for at least 2 minutes, before there is contact either with the mucous membranes of the face or 'any other surface' you might come in contact with again, later.
The same consideration applies to commonly touched surfaces in your car -- inside and outside door handles, pulls, mirror controls, stalk and knob controls, radio buttons... even glass edges you might use to pull the door within reach. Any repeat contact, no matter how slight, may eventually involve the risk of viral transfer.
charlie hebdo Euclid No these are just stores with shopping cart handles. I have noticed that some people wash their cart down before heading out into the aisles. Is that with a bucket and a hose? My markets have always provided those Clorox wipes at the entrance.
Euclid No these are just stores with shopping cart handles. I have noticed that some people wash their cart down before heading out into the aisles.
No these are just stores with shopping cart handles. I have noticed that some people wash their cart down before heading out into the aisles.
Is that with a bucket and a hose? My markets have always provided those Clorox wipes at the entrance.
Not a bad idea Euclid. You have to protect yourself wisely regardless how silly it looks or seems. Only the reckless and mentally unstable people would ignore precautions.
Thinking we are on the precipice of an event horizon type event.
Maybe these are stores with booths and red lighting?
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Euclid For about the last 10 years, I have used 91% isopropyl alcohol to wash my hands after being in stores and then returning to my vehicle. While in the store, I make a concerted effort to not touch my face. For each hand washing, I pour about 2-3 tablespoons of alcohol into one cupped hand and then wash both hands as is typical. I like the way it thoroughly wets and penetrates. It is okay if some spills off. It dries quickly with no need for toweling off. Fortunately, I have a large stock of alcohol on hand because I have always maintained an oversupply. I have never used hand sanitizers made as a lotion product. With those, I suspect that people feel they are maintaining a layer that will have an ongoing effect in killing virus, and then they replenish it from time to time. However, I use the alcohol as a momentary cleaning event to kill bacteria that may have accumulated in areas of high numbers of people. After being in certain stores, I wash my arms as well as my hands.
For about the last 10 years, I have used 91% isopropyl alcohol to wash my hands after being in stores and then returning to my vehicle. While in the store, I make a concerted effort to not touch my face. For each hand washing, I pour about 2-3 tablespoons of alcohol into one cupped hand and then wash both hands as is typical. I like the way it thoroughly wets and penetrates. It is okay if some spills off. It dries quickly with no need for toweling off. Fortunately, I have a large stock of alcohol on hand because I have always maintained an oversupply.
I have never used hand sanitizers made as a lotion product. With those, I suspect that people feel they are maintaining a layer that will have an ongoing effect in killing virus, and then they replenish it from time to time. However, I use the alcohol as a momentary cleaning event to kill bacteria that may have accumulated in areas of high numbers of people. After being in certain stores, I wash my arms as well as my hands.
Overmod "Not sanguine" is intended as British-style sardonic understatement. I won't post what I really think because Kalmbach says we have to keep it family-friendly.
"Not sanguine" is intended as British-style sardonic understatement. I won't post what I really think because Kalmbach says we have to keep it family-friendly.
I was being approvingly sarcastic.
The dangers of frequent use of higher concentrations of alcohol as a hand rub to preserving an intact skin barriers are considerable, especially in those over 55.
Convicted OneMany of the 'home brew' recipes that I seen for field expedient hand sanitizer suggest a mix of 1 part aloe vera product and 2 parts 91% alcohol.
This is almost surely to match the nominal 60%-alcohol percentage of many commercial hand sanitizer formulations -- and would be accurate in that context. Keep in mind that in at least some cases, the result is going to be substantial 'sliming' of the hands after use (as the alcohol evaporates off, you're left with the aloe-vera lotion on your hands with nothing to wipe it off) and this in addition to being annoying might be outright dangerous if you need to grip something promptly. It's possible that a gel product could assimilate the additional alcohol 'better' than a lotion to produce something more ike typical sanitizer.
The high-70-proof range is not intended as a 'guide' for best general-purpose sanitizing, nor as the 'best' germicidal formula in general. It is more strictly formulated 'by design' against virus composition, particularly that of coronaviruses. (It is quite possible that fine-tuning the alcohol percentage, or some of the 'diluents', would give "better" results for other specific contaminants like H1N1 spp.)
OvermodThe 'agents' in rubbing alcohol don't really count as 'dilution' as they are in the 30% water, in relatively small concentration -- oil of wintergreen, lanolin, etc. -- not replacing any of the alcohol proper. I have not seen anyone add these to the 91% strength; perhaps the solvent action is so great at that concentration that skin would be affected regardless of practical emollients or whatever
Many of the 'home brew' recipes that I seen for field expedient hand sanitizer suggest a mixof 1 part aloe vera product and 2 parts 91% alcohol.
I had assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that the 'cut' was for mildness to the skin. Your submission suggests it might be more intended to adjust the effectiveness. I was just curious. Thanks
Convicted OneDo you mean that 78% alcohol concentration is more lethal to the virus than 91%? That is the way I read your comment, and I'm just trying to sort out if I have misread your intention, or if not then why this is so.
There is no doubt that substantial dilution from 91% alcohol gives better virucidal action, and for the reasons I mentioned. You can find explanations on the Web that are probably more detailed than the abbreviated version I posted.
In fact, ordinary 70% alcohol is better than 91% too. The stated reason is that the stronger alcohol affects the lipid bilayer in a way that blocks further penetration of the alcohol into the viral RNA, but not irreversibly. What you want is to cause sufficient disruption or permeability in the viral coat to allow the alcohol to penetrate and denature the RNA 'permanently', and from what I have read, somewhere in the high 70s is the 'optimal' range that gives the best combination of actions net of the usual dilution, evaporation, etc. of the alcohol solution after application. Since it is relatively easy to dilute to the 'bioeffective' level by simply mixing a little water with stronger proof, it seemed the logical way to proceed both in designing effective sanitation treatment and in developing explanations about why it is.
[/quote]I was under the impression that the only reason why they were recommending dilution at all was to incorporate skin-soothing agents to combat the alcohol's tendency to dry out the skin.[/quote]
The 'agents' in rubbing alcohol don't really count as 'dilution' as they are in the 30% water, in relatively small concentration -- oil of wintergreen, lanolin, etc. -- not replacing any of the alcohol proper. I have not seen anyone add these to the 91% strength; perhaps the solvent action is so great at that concentration that skin would be affected regardless of practical emollients or whatever. That would be even more likely at the 95-and-a fraction that represents an 'equally evaporating' strength (which would otherwise represent an 'ideal' strength for application to surfaces as for many food-industry and hospital disinfectants, which in the instructions are supposed to remain 'wet' for 10 minutes.
Incidentally, 200 proof alcohol not only dries out skin on contact, it heats it dramatically as it does so. This would certainly have a synergistic effect on 'killing' something susceptible to this level of heating, but the other issues involved with its provision, safe handling, and application in the field are probably too great to recommend its use for viral disinfection over both the proven lower concentrations or alternative agents such as quats.
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OM: Given the quality and speed of decision-making and implementation so far, "not sanguine" is a very mild understatement.
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