Euclid Overmod ... and remember, if the agreement is 'secret' you lack evidence on which to speculate ... on the actual nature of what is secret. Not if the people making the agreement are predictable.
Overmod ... and remember, if the agreement is 'secret' you lack evidence on which to speculate ... on the actual nature of what is secret.
Not if the people making the agreement are predictable.
This is an interesting point, because if I understand you correctly you think that by 'predictably modeling' their thought and decision process you can approximate -- perhaps in some detail and with some precision -- what the 'secret' areas of discussion and agreement are.
The problem is that it's still conjecture until externally confirmed, or until independently affirmed in other ways. I have no doubts that the 'truth' will eventually be winkled out, but until then it is intellectually dangerous to proceed from your own model or perception of Canadian-political behavior to hard 'conclusions' in the usual sense of that word. Let alone defend such conclusions as if fully reasoned or self-evidently valid -- that is more the method of a crank than a scientist.
Flintlock76They can't. Not for long. The bigger the pool of people privy to the secret the harder it is to keep a lid on it. Remember what good ol' Ben Franklin said... "Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead!"
Remember what good ol' Ben Franklin said...
"Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead!"
Ah! The thousands that 'staged' the Moon Landing on a sound stage.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Euclid Miningman Euclid-- 250 people or 4 people. The answer of course is both! The duel titled Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs Chrystia Freeland was dispatched personally to handle the talks along with a few other very high up Minister's, Carolyn Bennett, Minister of Crown Indigenous Relations,, Ministers from Transport and also Indigenous Services. Of course each one of these uber woke anointed ones would have an entourage of Deputies, Assistants, Deputy Assistants and Assistants to the Deputy Assistants, and a ton of wine experts and various other schleppers. They had to endure a 2 week long traditional ceremony of sharing food Wet'suwet'en style as a formal greeting and acceptance of their presence. Seriously. Big time closed to our prying eyes. The French papers and media know no more than the English papers. All Canadians with cable TV ( getting less and less each day as the folks unplug) receive CBC, CTV, Global and all that in French services and spin on things, including the hockey games! In the older days of our generation perhaps American border towns may have picked up these stations even in NY State and Michigan. Maybe one can still get them as an option in places like Vermont and along the Quebec border. Thanks Miningman, I like your characterization, "Uber woke anointed ones." My thought in asking about the number of people invovled in the deal was to wonder how any group larger than maybe 3-5 could possibly keep the deal secret.
Miningman Euclid-- 250 people or 4 people. The answer of course is both! The duel titled Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs Chrystia Freeland was dispatched personally to handle the talks along with a few other very high up Minister's, Carolyn Bennett, Minister of Crown Indigenous Relations,, Ministers from Transport and also Indigenous Services. Of course each one of these uber woke anointed ones would have an entourage of Deputies, Assistants, Deputy Assistants and Assistants to the Deputy Assistants, and a ton of wine experts and various other schleppers. They had to endure a 2 week long traditional ceremony of sharing food Wet'suwet'en style as a formal greeting and acceptance of their presence. Seriously. Big time closed to our prying eyes. The French papers and media know no more than the English papers. All Canadians with cable TV ( getting less and less each day as the folks unplug) receive CBC, CTV, Global and all that in French services and spin on things, including the hockey games! In the older days of our generation perhaps American border towns may have picked up these stations even in NY State and Michigan. Maybe one can still get them as an option in places like Vermont and along the Quebec border.
Euclid-- 250 people or 4 people. The answer of course is both! The duel titled Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs Chrystia Freeland was dispatched personally to handle the talks along with a few other very high up Minister's, Carolyn Bennett, Minister of Crown Indigenous Relations,, Ministers from Transport and also Indigenous Services. Of course each one of these uber woke anointed ones would have an entourage of Deputies, Assistants, Deputy Assistants and Assistants to the Deputy Assistants, and a ton of wine experts and various other schleppers.
They had to endure a 2 week long traditional ceremony of sharing food Wet'suwet'en style as a formal greeting and acceptance of their presence. Seriously. Big time closed to our prying eyes.
The French papers and media know no more than the English papers. All Canadians with cable TV ( getting less and less each day as the folks unplug) receive CBC, CTV, Global and all that in French services and spin on things, including the hockey games!
In the older days of our generation perhaps American border towns may have picked up these stations even in NY State and Michigan. Maybe one can still get them as an option in places like Vermont and along the Quebec border.
Thanks Miningman,
I like your characterization, "Uber woke anointed ones." My thought in asking about the number of people invovled in the deal was to wonder how any group larger than maybe 3-5 could possibly keep the deal secret.
They can't. Not for long. The bigger the pool of people privy to the secret the harder it is to keep a lid on it.
Overmod... and remember, if the agreement is 'secret' you lack evidence on which to speculate ... on th actual nature of what is secret.
Overmod: Thank you for the explanation of the difficulties in Euclid's post. Unfortunately, he probably will not acknowledge the difference between conclusions and (speculative) opinions.
selector Convicted One Flintlock76 Trust our Canadian cousins like Miningman and the SD70Dude on this issue folks. They're on-site, for lack of a better term. We're not. The American press paid little to no attention to the recent events in Canada, so they're not to be relied on overmuch, any coverage they did give it was more like an afterthought. I prefer to listen to the elements of the press who tell me what I want to hear, just like everybody else LOL!! Julius Caesar said it 2000 years ago, "The people gladly believe what they wish to."
Convicted One Flintlock76 Trust our Canadian cousins like Miningman and the SD70Dude on this issue folks. They're on-site, for lack of a better term. We're not. The American press paid little to no attention to the recent events in Canada, so they're not to be relied on overmuch, any coverage they did give it was more like an afterthought. I prefer to listen to the elements of the press who tell me what I want to hear, just like everybody else
Flintlock76 Trust our Canadian cousins like Miningman and the SD70Dude on this issue folks. They're on-site, for lack of a better term. We're not. The American press paid little to no attention to the recent events in Canada, so they're not to be relied on overmuch, any coverage they did give it was more like an afterthought.
I prefer to listen to the elements of the press who tell me what I want to hear, just like everybody else
LOL!! Julius Caesar said it 2000 years ago, "The people gladly believe what they wish to."
Johnny
EuclidItem #1 was widely reported in Canadian news. I said it was. Item #2 has not been reported in the news. I never said it was. So where is this inconsistency that you keep referring to?
The part where you draw "conclusions" -- expressed in the language and semantics of firm,settled conclusions and not 'opinions' (which imho is the word you should use in all these cases) -- that either refer to the substance of what is 'secret' or speculate ... and remember, if the agreement is 'secret' you lack evidence on which to speculate ... on th actual nature of what is secret.
Meanwhile, we have the weeks-long process of trustbuilding between the grand royal entourages of modern-day potentates and the Wet'suwet'en characterized as something that should be openly filmed, like some wedding from Hell, and then endlessly exposed and commented on and praised/disparaged by everyone who has an anus or an opinion. I'm certainly not going to dictate to Canadians even what they 'should' or 'shouldn't'. They elect the democracy they deserve, even when it is highly discriminatory to Vince and the people who are his students, and it's theirs to fix the systems or details that are (or have become, or are now recognized as) inferior or improper in a fair society. If there is a role for observing First Nations customs and preferences on First Nations land in connection with First Nations matters -- and that role involves 'exclusive relationships' outside the peering eye of a free press -- that's not the same thing as a conscious Yillian Way sort of exploiting and laughing at dead-white-man diplomacy and overpriced government political correctness.
Would I prefer to see the text of any agreement made 'in Canada's name' as a rank-and-file Canadian? I sure would -- it's one of the tenets of Western representative non-star-chamber democracy. Do I think there are codicils made by the Wet'suwet'en that prevent revealing aspects of a sweetheart deal, or a sticking-it to 'white normal Canadians'? -- not really; how could there be? it'll come out sooner rather than later in the things the government subsequently does ... or when some new administration comes in after periodic elections. I wouldn't be surprised to see 'true reveal' being an election promise... perhaps a compelling one... in the next set of elections.
I would also state -- not quite tongue-in-cheek, but not entirely seriously either -- that the cavalier rubber state-security attitudes that led more or less directly to cancellation of the Arrow and scrapping of its tooling and technology is probably still chronic in Canada, and that leaking even large parts of this 'secret combination' will not take particularly long, or be met with particularly efficaceous savage reprisal or indignant rebuttal. Time usually heals secrecy.
MiningmanIn the older days of our generation perhaps American border towns may have picked up these stations even in NY State and Michigan. Maybe one can still get them as an option in places like Vermont and along the Quebec border.
We get two Canadian stations on our cable feed. One (Kingston) can still be had over the air, I believe, but the other (Ottawa) used a translator to reach this area and it may not be running any more.
I can almost literally see the tower for the Kingston station from my house - it is located on one of the Thousand Islands...
I haven't used a signal off the air in years.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
charlie hebdo You are talking utter nonsense. Do I or others have to go back to your analysis that made statements and later saying the important part was actually a secret?
You are talking utter nonsense. Do I or others have to go back to your analysis that made statements and later saying the important part was actually a secret?
I clearly described the context of that important secret part. I have not changed my view to be inconsistant about the secret part, as you keep insisting. You keep saying that it is a falacy for me to mention the secret because knowing the secret would be impossible because it is secret.
There are two parts:
1) The knowledge that a secret agreement was offered.
2) The knowledge of contents of the secret agreement.
Item #1 was widely reported in Canadian news. I said it was.
Item #2 has not been reported in the news. I never said it was.
So where is this inconsistency that you keep referring to?
charlie hebdo Since what Miningman and Euclid actually know only what is published in the English-language Canadian press (not the French), and the tentative agreement is secret, their knowledge is not anything more than any of us could acquire by reading the same public sources. The rest of the Euclidian material is only his personal speculation.
Since what Miningman and Euclid actually know only what is published in the English-language Canadian press (not the French), and the tentative agreement is secret, their knowledge is not anything more than any of us could acquire by reading the same public sources. The rest of the Euclidian material is only his personal speculation.
Aside from the question of what the Canadian government offered in the deal to end the protests, who in the government actually created the offer? Might this have been collaboration between say 250 government representatives? Or is it more likely to have been the work of say 4 people?
It seems to me that the rationale for keeping it secret is the same rationale as not wanting to enforce the law against blocking trains because that would be portrayed as violence against the Wet’suwet’en.
Flintlock76Trust our Canadian cousins like Miningman and the SD70Dude on this issue folks. They're on-site, for lack of a better term. We're not. The American press paid little to no attention to the recent events in Canada, so they're not to be relied on overmuch, any coverage they did give it was more like an afterthought.
I see that Italy reported almost 800 coronavirus-related deaths and 6,557 new cases occurring yesterday.
SD70Dude Deggesty Hey, what's that tall building near the Chateau Laurier? I had a personal tour of it several years ago after pleading that my wife and I were going to meet a friend that morning and go to the museum. We enjoyed the museum so much that we went back a few years later. You mean across the Rideau Canal, on top of the hill above the Ottawa River? That's our Parliament buildings. The Chateau Laurier was built by the Grand Trunk Railway, and was the pride of CN Hotels for many years. It is across the street from the old Ottawa Union Station, and CP's line to the Alexandra Bridge and their north shore lines ran underneath the hotel.
Deggesty Hey, what's that tall building near the Chateau Laurier? I had a personal tour of it several years ago after pleading that my wife and I were going to meet a friend that morning and go to the museum. We enjoyed the museum so much that we went back a few years later.
Hey, what's that tall building near the Chateau Laurier? I had a personal tour of it several years ago after pleading that my wife and I were going to meet a friend that morning and go to the museum. We enjoyed the museum so much that we went back a few years later.
You mean across the Rideau Canal, on top of the hill above the Ottawa River? That's our Parliament buildings.
The Chateau Laurier was built by the Grand Trunk Railway, and was the pride of CN Hotels for many years.
It is across the street from the old Ottawa Union Station, and CP's line to the Alexandra Bridge and their north shore lines ran underneath the hotel.
I regret that I did not get to Ottawa in time to walk from the station to the hotel--as we did in Toronto. (Halifax is even better; just walk through the waiting room; in Montreal, you have to take an elevator to the hotel).
Little known fact that only us Canukleheads know: If you spot Wayne Gretzky in a Tim Hortons, walk up to him and say "Hey everyone it's Wayne Gretzy!" , you win a free 2 day all inclusive to the nations capital.
So get out your Google boys and find out!
Euclid Flintlock76 Trust our Canadian cousins like Miningman and the SD70Dude on this issue folks. They're on-site, for lack of a better term. We're not. The American press paid little to no attention to the recent events in Canada, so they're not to be relied on overmuch, any coverage they did give it was more like an afterthought. I read the Canadian press reports because I was interested in the story.
Trust our Canadian cousins like Miningman and the SD70Dude on this issue folks. They're on-site, for lack of a better term. We're not. The American press paid little to no attention to the recent events in Canada, so they're not to be relied on overmuch, any coverage they did give it was more like an afterthought.
I read the Canadian press reports because I was interested in the story.
The French-Canadian papers in French? Feel certain they have a different point of view on all Canadian issues.
Lithonia Operator Miningman Even well known reporters and analysts don't have a clue what the capital of Canada is! Gretzkyville?
Miningman Even well known reporters and analysts don't have a clue what the capital of Canada is!
We did name a freeway in Edmonton after him. Mark Messier got his own road too.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
MiningmanEven well known reporters and analysts don't have a clue what the capital of Canada is!
MidlandMike Miningman Even well known reporters and analysts don't have a clue what the capital of Canada is! I thought the "capital" of Canada was the loonie.
I thought the "capital" of Canada was the loonie.
Toonies are better. Just don't pop the centre out!
Well good for that water taxi driver!
I concur, leave those kids alone!
Flintlock76 Yeah, that's the only way to find out what's going on north of the border. Looks like the American press only got interested in Canada when Harry and Meghan moved to British Columbia.
Yeah, that's the only way to find out what's going on north of the border. Looks like the American press only got interested in Canada when Harry and Meghan moved to British Columbia.
My favourite part was the water taxi driver (captain?) who refused to take the paparazzi near the island they were supposedly staying on.
They're people too, leave them alone!
Euclid Flintlock76 Trust our Canadian cousins like Miningman and the SD70Dude on this issue folks. They're on-site, for lack of a better term. We're not. The American press paid little to no attention to the recent events in Canada, so they're not to be relied on overmuch, any coverage they did give it was more like an afterthought. I read the Canadian press reports because I was intersted in the story.
I read the Canadian press reports because I was intersted in the story.
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