Toronto is French for "Canada City".
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
SD70Dude zugmann Miningman As if Americans read Canadian media. I know Wayne Flintlock does. Even well known reporters and analysts don't have a clue what the capital of Canada is! Canada City. Duh. No, it's Toronto. Everyone knows that. Especially those who live there.....
zugmann Miningman As if Americans read Canadian media. I know Wayne Flintlock does. Even well known reporters and analysts don't have a clue what the capital of Canada is! Canada City. Duh.
Miningman As if Americans read Canadian media. I know Wayne Flintlock does. Even well known reporters and analysts don't have a clue what the capital of Canada is!
Canada City. Duh.
No, it's Toronto. Everyone knows that. Especially those who live there.....
Johnny
The KKKKKK squad can keep the headlines. We Kanucks prefer to fly (by night) under the radar.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Trust our Canadian cousins like Miningman and the SD70Dude on this issue folks. They're on-site, for lack of a better term. We're not. The American press paid little to no attention to the recent events in Canada, so they're not to be relied on overmuch, any coverage they did give it was more like an afterthought.
The Kardashians were more important. At least until "All coronavirus, ALL the time!" became the headline-grabber.
I agree with Vince, Euclid has it right this time. Am I a Canadian enough source?
I can go back and dig up some CBC/CTV/NP/Globe articles if you like.
Overmod I confess I can't figure out exactly why the deal isn't public knowledge. For the blockades to have ended as definitively as it appears they have, the 'relevant' provisions certainly seem to have been believable enough ... and on-point enough ... to satisfy the range of people motivated to take serious action. Perhaps Trudeau's government is worried that other groups or factions will see some aspects of its 'offer' as an invitation to conduct their own little copycat 'blockade' actions. I'm certainly not going to try to reach actual 'conclusions' about something I don't know and really can't know.
I confess I can't figure out exactly why the deal isn't public knowledge. For the blockades to have ended as definitively as it appears they have, the 'relevant' provisions certainly seem to have been believable enough ... and on-point enough ... to satisfy the range of people motivated to take serious action. Perhaps Trudeau's government is worried that other groups or factions will see some aspects of its 'offer' as an invitation to conduct their own little copycat 'blockade' actions. I'm certainly not going to try to reach actual 'conclusions' about something I don't know and really can't know.
The Native leaders now have to take the deal back to their people and discuss it. If the government were to immediately publicize and politicize the deal's terms this would be viewed as negotiating in bad faith.
As I posted on page 6 of this thread, but no one seems to have noticed, this is the same process my Union and employer follow once a tentative agreement has been reached in contract negotations.
One thing for sure is total recognition and adoption of the United Nations decree on Aboriginal Land Titles, Sovereignty, Self Government, and Massive Reparations. The Trudeau government was on board with that all along anyway.
I'll keep a watchful eye on any leaks and information. They can't hide forever and this Covid virus will eventually cease to give cover. I hope.
I do not believe that stopping the pipeline was the true objective. I suspect that the threat of stopping the pipeline was only a bargaining chip for a greater objective. I speculate that the true objective was greater control by the Wet’suwet’en people over their land in a way that would allow them to charge fees for the right of companies to develop energy resources on that land. And while I speculate that this is what Justin Trudeau offered, I have not seen any confirmation that the Wet’suwet’en people have accepted the offer. It seems to be reported that the Wet’suwet’en people are only considering the offer, and that they remain firmly opposed to the pipeline.
The essential point being missed with all this talk of unknow-able secrecy is this: there wa a wide range of 'me-too' solidarity, building to a train-torching frenzy in an apparent reluctance if not outright refusal to use the police power. Some Canadian sources indicated that many of the actual blockade goons were activists, some supposedly students/academics.
Whatever the 'secret' deal was, it shut down the root cause of that solidarity, and to my knowledge did it in a way that has not caused any pressure group to try the tactic again. Since it's been stipulated by all parties that the pipeline is still 'on' (and the alternate routes favored by the hereditary chiefs uniformly acknowledged as 'more environmentally damaging' -- that's not secret) then what remains that could have gotten all those people to quit near-simultaneously, and stay quit.
Many of us - myself among them - were expecting copycat actions to bloom like civil disobedience in Romania as soon as it was clear the government was not intending to act directly. That has not happened, either.
That is a far more interesting thing for investigative journalism than more whining about the Ruchstecke to lots of underrepresented Canadians from Justin Trudeau's supposedly secret and supposedly callow plan...
charlie hebdo Miningman Everything Euclid wrote in his latest on the blockades is correct. We may never know any of the facts. The Feds are saying nothing whatsoever, and the Chiefs are not either. That is widely reported in all Canadian media and easy to find but is now buried under the Covid reporting. Eventually something will slip out, when the parties involved think the time is right, like Friday at midnight on a long weekend a year from now. As if Americans read Canadian media. I know Wayne Flintlock does. Even well known reporters and analysts don't have a clue what the capital of Canada is! How can you possibly know and say everything Euclid says is true when many facts are secret? Saying something without any factual information to support it is just a guy rumbling and worthless.
Miningman Everything Euclid wrote in his latest on the blockades is correct. We may never know any of the facts. The Feds are saying nothing whatsoever, and the Chiefs are not either. That is widely reported in all Canadian media and easy to find but is now buried under the Covid reporting. Eventually something will slip out, when the parties involved think the time is right, like Friday at midnight on a long weekend a year from now. As if Americans read Canadian media. I know Wayne Flintlock does. Even well known reporters and analysts don't have a clue what the capital of Canada is!
Everything Euclid wrote in his latest on the blockades is correct. We may never know any of the facts. The Feds are saying nothing whatsoever, and the Chiefs are not either. That is widely reported in all Canadian media and easy to find but is now buried under the Covid reporting.
Eventually something will slip out, when the parties involved think the time is right, like Friday at midnight on a long weekend a year from now.
As if Americans read Canadian media. I know Wayne Flintlock does. Even well known reporters and analysts don't have a clue what the capital of Canada is!
How can you possibly know and say everything Euclid says is true when many facts are secret?
Saying something without any factual information to support it is just a guy rumbling and worthless.
You seem to suggest that I claim to know what the secret facts are, and then you say that knowing that is impossible if the facts are secret as I say they are. However, I never claimed to know, or stated what the secret facts actually are. All I claimed is the facts of the Wet’suwet’en agreement are secret and that is widely reported in the news in Canada.
It has been well covered and widely reported that the negotiations and the resultant deal are secret and not disclosed.
That's all he is saying.
MiningmanEventually something will slip out, when the parties involved think the time is right, like Friday at midnight on a long weekend a year from now.
Maybe they offered them a 24-pack of toilet paper?
MiningmanAs if Americans read Canadian media. I know Wayne Flintlock does. Even well known reporters and analysts don't have a clue what the capital of Canada is!
charlie hebdoHow can you possibly know and say everything Euclid says is true when many facts are secret?
Is it not possible to know that some facts are secret?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Lithonia OperatorThe tribal blockades are now kinda like our presidential election. Page 5 news.
Can you imagine how unpopular those blockades would be today considering the pandemic and resultant panic buying?
The Mounties would have to save the protesters from the torch-n-pitchfork brigade.
Euclid Oh spare me. There are plenty of facts in what I said. The facts that are missing are the ones being kept secret.
Oh spare me. There are plenty of facts in what I said. The facts that are missing are the ones being kept secret.
As someone once said:
Euclid Source?
The tribal blockades are now kinda like our presidential election. Page 5 news.
Euclid charlie hebdo Well that's typical, just typical: just a bunch of personal opinions devoid of any factual support portrayed as conclusions. But what the heck, you don't need no stinkin' facts! Oh spare me. There are plenty of facts in what I said. The facts that are missing are the ones being kept secret.
charlie hebdo Well that's typical, just typical: just a bunch of personal opinions devoid of any factual support portrayed as conclusions. But what the heck, you don't need no stinkin' facts!
Secret? If so, are you claiming to be privy to those secrets or are you just blowing smoke while claiming all you say is factual? In other words, you are embedding your guesses or gut feelings in known information to lend credence to your speculation.
Euclid charlie hebdo Euclid Apparently all the rail blockades in Canada have been removed and all blocked rail transportation has started again. In is unclear as to whether the blockades were removed voluntarily by the protestors or whether the police dispersed or arrested the protestors and then removed the blockades. If the blockades were removed by the protestors, it may have been done as a concession in exchange for the Government meeting some or all of the demands of the protestors. If there was a settlement of the dispute that lead to the removal of the blockades, then it is unclear as to what the government offered in their part of the settlement. It seems that this information is being withheld from the public. The most prominent point of the settlement that is widely reported by news is that Mr. Trudeau ended the dispute without the use of force. But totally unclear is the reason why he was able to do that. The optics of the matter seems to indicate that the government is worried about the optics of what Canada offered the protestors in the deal to end the dispute. Therefore, the government has not disclosed the details of the settlement of the dispute, or whether there actually has been a settlement. It may be that the removal of the blockades resulted from a reason that had nothing to do with a settlement. In any case, it has been reported that the Wet’suwet’en people remain opposed to the construction of the pipeline that was the original cause for the dispute in the first place. Perhaps you should head north and check this mystery out for yourself? We'll expect a full report back by next Saturday. No need to go to Canada. These are my conclusions. The cause of opposing the pipeline was so strong that it was worth protesters disrupting the commerce of Canada and causing enormous economic damage to the country. They vowed to continue as long as necessary to see the pipeline cancelled. Then all of a sudden, the protesters simply quit and allowed life to return to normal. No explanation has been given for the end of the blockades. Yet, it has been reported that the pipeline is continuing and that the hereditary chiefs remain solidly opposed to its construction. Therefore, it appears that the government offered the hereditary chiefs something in exchange for their choice to remove the blockades without receiving their demand that the pipeline project be discontinued. If this is the case, the offer from the government must have had a value exceeding the value to the hereditary chiefs of achieving the cancellation of the pipeline. If this is what happened, it remains to be seen whether Canadians will approve of the deal after it has already been agreed to. It also remains to be seen whether Canadians will be told what the deal was.
charlie hebdo Euclid Apparently all the rail blockades in Canada have been removed and all blocked rail transportation has started again. In is unclear as to whether the blockades were removed voluntarily by the protestors or whether the police dispersed or arrested the protestors and then removed the blockades. If the blockades were removed by the protestors, it may have been done as a concession in exchange for the Government meeting some or all of the demands of the protestors. If there was a settlement of the dispute that lead to the removal of the blockades, then it is unclear as to what the government offered in their part of the settlement. It seems that this information is being withheld from the public. The most prominent point of the settlement that is widely reported by news is that Mr. Trudeau ended the dispute without the use of force. But totally unclear is the reason why he was able to do that. The optics of the matter seems to indicate that the government is worried about the optics of what Canada offered the protestors in the deal to end the dispute. Therefore, the government has not disclosed the details of the settlement of the dispute, or whether there actually has been a settlement. It may be that the removal of the blockades resulted from a reason that had nothing to do with a settlement. In any case, it has been reported that the Wet’suwet’en people remain opposed to the construction of the pipeline that was the original cause for the dispute in the first place. Perhaps you should head north and check this mystery out for yourself? We'll expect a full report back by next Saturday.
Euclid Apparently all the rail blockades in Canada have been removed and all blocked rail transportation has started again. In is unclear as to whether the blockades were removed voluntarily by the protestors or whether the police dispersed or arrested the protestors and then removed the blockades. If the blockades were removed by the protestors, it may have been done as a concession in exchange for the Government meeting some or all of the demands of the protestors. If there was a settlement of the dispute that lead to the removal of the blockades, then it is unclear as to what the government offered in their part of the settlement. It seems that this information is being withheld from the public. The most prominent point of the settlement that is widely reported by news is that Mr. Trudeau ended the dispute without the use of force. But totally unclear is the reason why he was able to do that. The optics of the matter seems to indicate that the government is worried about the optics of what Canada offered the protestors in the deal to end the dispute. Therefore, the government has not disclosed the details of the settlement of the dispute, or whether there actually has been a settlement. It may be that the removal of the blockades resulted from a reason that had nothing to do with a settlement. In any case, it has been reported that the Wet’suwet’en people remain opposed to the construction of the pipeline that was the original cause for the dispute in the first place.
Apparently all the rail blockades in Canada have been removed and all blocked rail transportation has started again. In is unclear as to whether the blockades were removed voluntarily by the protestors or whether the police dispersed or arrested the protestors and then removed the blockades. If the blockades were removed by the protestors, it may have been done as a concession in exchange for the Government meeting some or all of the demands of the protestors.
If there was a settlement of the dispute that lead to the removal of the blockades, then it is unclear as to what the government offered in their part of the settlement. It seems that this information is being withheld from the public.
The most prominent point of the settlement that is widely reported by news is that Mr. Trudeau ended the dispute without the use of force. But totally unclear is the reason why he was able to do that. The optics of the matter seems to indicate that the government is worried about the optics of what Canada offered the protestors in the deal to end the dispute.
Therefore, the government has not disclosed the details of the settlement of the dispute, or whether there actually has been a settlement. It may be that the removal of the blockades resulted from a reason that had nothing to do with a settlement. In any case, it has been reported that the Wet’suwet’en people remain opposed to the construction of the pipeline that was the original cause for the dispute in the first place.
Perhaps you should head north and check this mystery out for yourself? We'll expect a full report back by next Saturday.
No need to go to Canada. These are my conclusions. The cause of opposing the pipeline was so strong that it was worth protesters disrupting the commerce of Canada and causing enormous economic damage to the country. They vowed to continue as long as necessary to see the pipeline cancelled. Then all of a sudden, the protesters simply quit and allowed life to return to normal.
No explanation has been given for the end of the blockades. Yet, it has been reported that the pipeline is continuing and that the hereditary chiefs remain solidly opposed to its construction.
Therefore, it appears that the government offered the hereditary chiefs something in exchange for their choice to remove the blockades without receiving their demand that the pipeline project be discontinued. If this is the case, the offer from the government must have had a value exceeding the value to the hereditary chiefs of achieving the cancellation of the pipeline.
If this is what happened, it remains to be seen whether Canadians will approve of the deal after it has already been agreed to. It also remains to be seen whether Canadians will be told what the deal was.
Well that's typical, just typical: just a bunch of personal opinions devoid of any factual support portrayed as conclusions. But what the heck, you don't need no stinkin' facts!
Excellent analysis Euclid. That is exactly what has occured. Almost for certain we will never be told just exactly what the deal is but you can bet it involves an enormous amount of land and recognition as a sovereign state and self government taking it just outside of Canadian Law and one heck of a lot of money up front and continuing on forever.
Euclid charlie hebdo Perhaps you should head north and check this mystery out for yourself? We'll expect a full report back by next Saturday.
charlie hebdo
Therefore, it appears that the government offered the hereditary chiefs something in exchange for their choice to remove the blockades without receiving their demand that the pipeline project be discontinued.
This presupposes a great many unestablished things, and I am not sure how you could use it to justify, far less actually make, any 'conclusion' of any particular validity from it. Can you substantiate that the hereditary chiefs acted directly to remove the blockades, or that the government offered them something that encouraged them to do so, or that the government refused to 'receive their demand' regarding stopping the pipeline? You'd need to have hard details before any conclusions based on that stuff make sense.
If this is the case, the offer from the government must have had a value exceeding the value to the hereditary chiefs of achieving the cancellation of the pipeline.
Personally, I think the offer resolved in some way the issue of the Wet'suwet'en regarding title to their lands. That was certainly a more significant issue than whether the bands had more authority to set a pipeline route than the hereditary chiefs ... and more likely to get the various 'solidarity' actions to end promptly.
... it remains to be seen whether Canadians will approve of the deal after it has already been agreed to. It also remains to be seen whether Canadians will be told what the deal was.
MikeInPlano Paul of Covington By the way, does anyone remember the title of this thread? Yes, it's "Blockade getting worse" is latest forum topic to morph into a societal/political discussion.
Paul of Covington By the way, does anyone remember the title of this thread?
Yes, it's "Blockade getting worse" is latest forum topic to morph into a societal/political discussion.
Flintlock76 And there's no excuse for the panic buying and hoarding. There's nothing wrong with the supply chain and plenty to go 'round if people keep their heads. Maybe that's asking too much? Day before yesterday I was at the local supermarket, found what I needed, then out of curiousity went down the paper products aisle just to look at the TP situation. All wiped out. No pun intended. And yes, it was surreal. The last time I saw toilet paper aisles empty was in 1973 during the gas crunch when Johnny Carson made a joke to the effect of "What's next? A toilet paper shortage?" Within 24 hours the joke became it's own reality.
And there's no excuse for the panic buying and hoarding. There's nothing wrong with the supply chain and plenty to go 'round if people keep their heads.
Maybe that's asking too much?
Day before yesterday I was at the local supermarket, found what I needed, then out of curiousity went down the paper products aisle just to look at the TP situation. All wiped out. No pun intended.
And yes, it was surreal.
The last time I saw toilet paper aisles empty was in 1973 during the gas crunch when Johnny Carson made a joke to the effect of "What's next? A toilet paper shortage?" Within 24 hours the joke became it's own reality.
Totally agree. The binge buying was completely unfounded, and in fact is self-perpetuating. If everybody had continued to shop normally we'd all be able to get what we need, just as always. Instead, over-reacting morons (I include the media) have plunged us all into an artificial shortage that has no basis in reality.
Political desperation breeds possibly unnecessary economic stimuli.
It seems like there is going to be a cascading effect of closing more and more operations, and closing them for growing periods of time. What began as two weeks of closing will turn into 26 weeks. The feeling seems to be that all of the work can be done as usual, but it will be done with people working independently away from others. So really? You just take the whole working culture and drop them into this new independent system in an overnight transition?
I would say that in picking up the slack, a new independent work system will be nearly impossible to set up even if you had a couple years. In the meantime, everybody is getting paid to stay home. And they are doing this as an honored duty to stop the virus. So, there will be a lot of motive to extend these shutdown phases. Who wants to take a chance on ending it too early?
With these conditions, I don’t think we will see the productivity of everybody working independently anywhere near as high it was when people were at their workplace in the company facility.
So in effect, I expect most of the country to take at least half a year off. And they are going to do a massive amount of staying home to stay safe. They will reduce spending to just practical essentials. This will be a huge reduction in national productivity. What happens to a roaring economy when you take that big of a bite out of it?
Get ready for the mother of all economic stimulus plans.
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