Things are getting a lot worse... the entire economy is getting shut down. Amtrak ceases services to Vancouver.
Prime Minister leaving for the Caribbean!
"Colonial expansion of the Corporation of Canada was made possible through the construction of railways like the one we block today,” organizer Herb Varley said in a statement"
https://globalnews.ca/news/6556116/wetsuweten-protests-east-vancouver/
This is sickening. Now I'm referred to as a settler! Greater Toronto area shut down.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/gta-protesters-ontario-rail-blockade-1.5465525
How does the Canadian government break down in its support versus rejection of the goals of the protesters? I have concluded that the protests have nothing to do with a pipeline or the environment. These are minor causes being used to advance a revolution.
And none, I mean NONE of this seems to be reported in the American press, at all, or at least not in the news outlets I look at.
Maybe the American mainline media won't notice unless a Kardashian or two are inconvenienced. Or some othe silly celebrity.
At least "Trains" is reporting it, to their credit!
Frankly; I hope the US press doesn't start reporting on these blockades.
God knows we have enough craziness on this side of the border already without publicizing this nonsense in Canada and giving our crazies any more ideas.
You may be right J-M, but here's my point. There's a big country to the north of us, a major trade and defense partner, and sharing a common language, that's facing a governmental and economic crisis, and as far as our own press is concerned it might as well be happening on Mars.
I'm not saying the US should get involved, not by any means, it's not our (for lack of a better term) business to get involved, and I'm sure they don't want us involved, but it does bear watching.
Flintlock76You may be right J-M, but here's my point. There's a big country to the north of us, a major trade and defense partner, and sharing a common language, that's facing a governmental and economic crisis, and as far as our own press is concerned it might as well be happening on Mars. I'm not saying the US should get involved, not by any means, it's not our (for lack of a better term) business to get involved, and I'm sure they don't want us involved, but it does bear watching.
Just wait until the caravans from Newfoundland, the Yukon and all the other areas of the far North form the cross the US border into the lower 48.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Flintlock76 You may be right J-M, but here's my point. There's a big country to the north of us, a major trade and defense partner, and sharing a common language, that's facing a governmental and economic crisis, and as far as our own press is concerned it might as well be happening on Mars. I'm not saying the US should get involved, not by any means, it's not our (for lack of a better term) business to get involved, and I'm sure they don't want us involved, but it does bear watching. Just wait until the caravans from Newfoundland, the Yukon and all the other areas of the far North form the cross the US border into the lower 48.
Flintlock76 You may be right J-M, but here's my point. There's a big country to the north of us, a major trade and defense partner, and sharing a common language, that's facing a governmental and economic crisis, and as far as our own press is concerned it might as well be happening on Mars. I'm not saying the US should get involved, not by any means, it's not our (for lack of a better term) business to get involved, and I'm sure they don't want us involved, but it does bear watching.
A little farfetched, but you've swerved into another important matter Balt. Unreported in this country are the rumblings of a secession movement in Canada's western provinces like Alberta and Saskatchewan. The Maritime provinces have also grumbled about the insular and elitist attitude of Ontario and Quebec, i.e. acting like they are Canada and the other provinces may just as well not exist. A lot of provinces are getting sick and tired of being ignored.
A Canadian version of "Flyover Country?" I have to wonder.
I doubt Canada's going to come totally unglued over this, I think they're a lot stronger than that. I sincerely hope it doesn't happen, but guess who's likely to wind up picking up the pieces if it does?
Euclid wrote the following post 3 hours ago:
How does the Canadian government break down in its support versus rejection of the goals of the protesters?
I suspect that the Canadian gov't is forced into a waiting game. Given sufficient time for actual shortages to accrue in stores, the general public will become more impatient to have something done to eliminate the blockade(s), and the Canadian gov't can then assume the hero's role and force dispersal, without appearing oppressive.
I am sure that U.S. media will be all over this as soon as they figure out how to take sides in how they present it. Here is an interesting editorial. I agree with the comments after it:
https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-why-canadas-police-forces-dont-just-shut-down-indigenous-protests
This is clearly dividing the country, and I am not sure who is left with the biggest piece. I have a feeling that it is the protesters. This could easily turn violent.
Convicted One Euclid wrote the following post 3 hours ago: How does the Canadian government break down in its support versus rejection of the goals of the protesters? I suspect that the Canadian gov't is forced into a waiting game. Given sufficient time for actual shortages to accrue in stores, the general public will become more impatient to have something done to eliminate the blockade(s), and the Canadian gov't can then assume the hero's role and force dispersal, without appearing oppressive.
I don't think the goverment cracking down would appear to be oppressive to those who see this protest as having gotten out of hand. This is imposing a great cost on the country that will be borne by everyone.
I suspect that the Canadian National and Provincial governments do not want a repeat of the fallout of the Ipperwash Crisis.
Here's an interesting opinion piece from Canada.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/np-view-if-trudeau-has-lost-interest-in-his-job-perhaps-he-should-quit
EuclidI don't think the goverment cracking down would appear to be oppressive to those who see this protest as having gotten out of hand.
Precisely my point, by waiting for resultant shortages to become problematic, an ever larger segment of the general public will come to see the protest as "out of hand".
Awaiting personal selfishness to outweigh sypathies is another way to put it.
In general I believe the general public in Canada is more sympathetic to splinter causes than we are down here, so the authorities have to allow time for human nature to take it's toll.
"Personal selfishness" is putting it a bit harshly. It's more like the old saying "Your right to swing your arm ends where it intersects with the end of my nose!"
Most people are sympathetic to protests over legitimate grievances, but only up to the point where you really, really make a pest and a nuisance out of yourself, then watch how fast the sympathy evaporates!
CN Layoffs
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/rail-shutdown-propane-supply-runs-low-maritimes-1.5465865
Now 1,000 CN Layoffs!
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ottawa-rejects-police-intervention-to-put-an-end-to-blockades/
Getting to the "...pest and nuisance..." stage pretty quickly.
Niagara Falls border crossing closed as protestors block coming and going.
https://www.cp24.com/news/hundreds-hold-wet-suwet-en-solidarity-protest-at-border-bridge-in-niagara-falls-1.4814458
"Personal selfishness" is putting it a bit harshly
You're right, it was. I was pressed for time and couldn't think of a more diplomatic way to convey the idea.
My appologies to anyone I may have offended.
Would the term "intrinsic ambition" have been a better choice?
Convicted One Flintlock76 wrote the following post 13 hours ago: "Personal selfishness" is putting it a bit harshly You're right, it was. I was pressed for time and couldn't think of a more diplomatic way to convey the idea.
Personally, I thought 'personal selfishness' filled the bill quite accurately, which leads me to wonder if I misunderstood the point of the comment.
What I thought is that the protest will be 'supported' up until a sufficiently large number of people acquire the sense of being negatively affected for personal reasons -- a kind of aggregate 'where you stand is where you sit' -- and the resulting groundswell becomes the politicians' call to action, or excuse, or whatever to bring down the boom. Which should be very effective once the Peace Enforcers get called in with permission, just as it would be for you or I if we set up a card table on a major main line.
I'm all in favor of solidarity, but I start to get upset when I see the Saul Alinsky playbook coming into play where it doesn't matter who you inconvenience as long as it isn't someone near or important to you. That's not democracy, it's expedience.
MiningmanNiagara Falls border crossing closed as protestors block coming and going.
Got word today that the Thousand Islands Bridge is blocked as well, on the Canadian side.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Overmod wrote: which leads me to wonder if I misunderstood the point of the comment.
At the time I posted the original comment, my thinking was on the motives of the nondirectly involved public.
You have supporters and non-supporters. Supporters having sympathy for the movement. Non-supporters being self explanatory.
As shortages on store shelves grow, this will directly impact the supporters. Eventually the personal priorities of the supporters will begin to erode their sympathies, and they will change sides.
That kind of selfishness.
When I was raised I was taught to believe there was a certain amount of hostility inherent within selfishness.. Over the years I encountered enough people that didn't give a darn about what was important to me, yet did not directly dislike me, that I had to revise that belief.
Those people were simply so stuck on themselves that there was no room for them to have any feelings regarding me, positive or negative. IT WAS ONLY A MATTER OF THEIR OWN PRIORITIES.
That kind of "selfishness"..
Again, I think "selfishness" is a bit harsh. "Self-interest" is more accurate, in my opinion anyway. We all operate on self-interest, it's perfectly normal and human to do so. Someone once said even Mother Theresa operated on self-interest, her humanitarian efforts did a lot of good, but doing them did give her a lot of personal satisfaction.
The point is, sooner or later you have to think of yourself and your own people first, and not be overly concerned with others, which doesn't necessarily mean "Hooray for me and to hell with everyone else!" "Charity begins at home" after all.
I tried to find news of an estimate of economic cost of this protest. Has there ever been a case like this where this much commerce has been halted as a political protest?
I conclude that the legal point about land rights of the indigenous people versus the rights of the government is debatable. I conclude that because neither side has at least articulated a clear position on the matter. Also, the point may be moot depending on how strong the influence of public opinion becomes as each side speaks. Clarification of rights may not be necessary or practical if both sides claim to have the rights.
A few days ago, it was reported that RCMP would pull out of the disputed territory, thus clearing the way for the hereditary chiefs to honor their promise to take down the barricades once the RCMP pulled out. Since then, the hereditary chiefs seem to be adding more conditions to their commitment to take down the barricades; such as a need to meet with the government to engage in more negotiation, and the need to cease working on the pipeline in the disputed territory.
Also since the offer to take down the barricades was made, it seems that the RCMP has begun to pull out of the disputed territory, but has not completed that move. So it is not clear whether they intend to honor their commitment.
Also, the government has stated that they will not order the RCMP to take down the barricades because (they say) that the RCMP has the duty to enforce the injunctions after they have been made. Therefore, according to the government, no other order compelling the RCMP to take action is necessary.
This interview sheds some light on the current state of the standoff. I see no reason to conclude that a settlement is imminent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfVbASfyNdo
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/police-move-in-on-blockade-in-tyendinaga-ont-take-protesters-into-custody-1.4824709
Teck Resources has spent nine years and over a billion dollars navigating the regulatory process for a new oil sands mine in Canada, and they have pulled the plug on the $15-billion project due to investor uncertainty arising from Canadian opposition to fossil fuels related to climate change.
https://globalnews.ca/news/6588026/teck-frontier-oilsands-mine-cancelled/
In both threads about this, the Liberal government is taking a beating. But it must be remembered that this government was elected by a majority of Canadians.
I think this crisis will be resolved peacefully. I surely hope so.
It is amazing how this is not being reported in US media. But then, the election is dominating everything. And lord knows, when election season is a mere two years long, you don't want to needlessly squander precious seconds of air time on something else!
Lithonia Operator In both threads about this, the Liberal government is taking a beating. But it must be remembered that this government was elected by a majority of Canadians.
Technically a plurality.
While the US has a "simple" us vs. them 2-party system, there are several major parties in Canada, the three main parties being the Liberal, Conservative and New Democratic (NDP) parties. There's also the regional Bloc Quebecois. There's also several minority parties like the Green Party, which does run candidates in every local election and actually managed a historic 3 MPs (members of parliament) elected in the last election, and other fringe parties that run candidates in various local elections but have no real change of winning, ever.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Euclid Teck Resources has spent nine years and over a billion dollars navigating the regulatory process for a new oil sands mine in Canada, and they have pulled the plug on the $15-billion project due to investor uncertainty arising from Canadian opposition to fossil fuels related to climate change. https://globalnews.ca/news/6588026/teck-frontier-oilsands-mine-cancelled/
There's more to this picture than meets the eye.
When the Frontier Mine was first proposed world oil prices were spiking to well over $100 USD/barrel. Today they are barely half that.
Like the other large oilsands mines currently in operation, Frontier would most likely earn an operating profit at current oil prices. But it appeared to need significantly higher oil prices to justify the massive $20 Billion investment required to construct it.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/teck-frontier-1.5473370
A quote from the article:
Project's economic viability questioned In July 2019, a joint federal-provincial review panel recommended the mine be approved, saying the economic benefits outweighed what it described as significant adverse environmental impacts. However, a January report from the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis made the case that Teck's application showed a "reckless disregard for the facts regarding oil prices in Canada." The joint-review panel relied on a long-term oil price projection of more than $95 US per barrel provided by Teck, the IEEFA wrote, about $40 US higher than current prices and around $20 US higher than other forecasts.
In July 2019, a joint federal-provincial review panel recommended the mine be approved, saying the economic benefits outweighed what it described as significant adverse environmental impacts.
However, a January report from the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis made the case that Teck's application showed a "reckless disregard for the facts regarding oil prices in Canada."
The joint-review panel relied on a long-term oil price projection of more than $95 US per barrel provided by Teck, the IEEFA wrote, about $40 US higher than current prices and around $20 US higher than other forecasts.
Frontier has become a cause-celebre out here over the past six months. But a year ago most Canadians didn't even know what it was.
I suppose we'll never know whether or not the Federal government was going to approve it.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
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