Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 19, 2020 6:58 PM

The Catonsville line had been converted to broad-gauge before WWII and was interoperable with the rest of the system.  When I rode it in 1947, age 15, with John Stern and Bill Watson, it was one-man.  The two-man train operation was the Sparrows Point line, but you did get the right city and by implication, car type (semi-convertable) so I will let you have that one free and clear.

And you got Fairmont Park, an isolated Phili-gauge totally two-man opeh-car operation, except during inclement weather, when the one closed car they had provided a basic service for the few that rode.

Remember a car type that can be ridden today on an existsing trolley musuen next to a mothballed steam railroad and you will correct your error concerning the third system.  You cannot ride it in a train today, just as a single car, but it usually did run in two-car trains and ran rush-hour only.  The system took delivery of post-war mu one-man cars that replaced most of these.

 

You mentioned Boston, and I think you should know the car type and its use, so go ahead.

You missed one city.  It used a two-man-required car only for an Autumn repeated special event, with the cars carrying huge loads, possibly preventing the collection of all fares.  The conductor's job woiuld be considered an occupational hazard today with far more auto traffic.  This was basically a low-speed non-stop operation between RR station and attraction, all on city streets.

Several operating museums have the cars, and I operated one frequently.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, April 19, 2020 8:10 PM

Oh, sure. The Boston Center-entrance cars in the 6000 series (Kuhlman 1919) needed a conductor since the motorman was buried in the front of the car.  BER (later MTA) ran them in trains of up to three cars.  They were replaced by MU PCCs.  6131 and 6270 are at Seashore Trolley Museum in Maine, 6131 under restoration with steel on hand to rebuild 6270's underframe.  They were mostly used on center reservation routes (includng today's B, C and E Green line T routes.)

The missing one would be New Haven Ct, where the Connecticut Co. used open cars to handle traffic for Yale home football games at the Yale Bowl through the 1947 season.  Seashore has four of them, two in the operating fleet (303 and 838).  We have pictures of some of them with more than 150 on board, on seats (15 bench), running boards and the roof.  The conductor's job was helped a bit by Conn. Co's use of street collectors at Union Station and the Yale Bowl.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 20, 2020 6:04 AM

Now, two more questions for you to answer:  Why the heroic efforts to prevent roof leaks on the Boston CE cars and what was different and what was similar in Philadelophia at 69th Street? (Mostly rush hours in two-car trains) Also replaced by cars ----with PCC-like bodies but not PCCs?  (Although I still have some hope that two will become true PCCs eventually.)

Then next question, please.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, April 20, 2020 6:38 AM

Boston's CE cars had the poles mounted on the ends, with hatches for the ropes in the middle over the conductor's station.  Since the catchers were inside, some room had to be left for the trolley rope. Needless to say, it made for a mess on a rainy day, at least until you got into the subway.

At 69th St., Philadelphia & West Chester had thirty two broad gauge double ended center entrance cars, with the poles set "normally" on the roof.  Several of these (including regauged 62 in Maine) have been preserved.  In 1949 P&WCT successor Philadelphia Suburban Transportation bought 14 double-ended MU cars in PCC bodies but equipped with outside equalizer trucks and traditional non-PCC wheelsets.

There are two bodies of these stored somewhere which San Francisco has considered setting up as PCCs.  It's not much of a stretch, the controls and motors are the same type used in true PCC cars.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 20, 2020 2:52 PM

I believe the cars are at Brookville. Estimates for the conversion were too low considering the underbody modifications necessary to permit use of PCC trucks.

Except in the very heaviest of rains, whatever the technique in controling water intake seemed to work OK in the Boston Center-Entrancee cars.

Next question?

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 20, 2020 3:22 PM

I mentioned that Phili had eight traction outfits, PTC, Red Arrow, P&W, LVT, Port Authority, Franklin Park, PRR, and Reading.  Exceeded by New York, however, IRT, BMT, IND, H&M, Third Avenue, PRR, NYCentral, NYNH&H, LIRR. QBridge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

h7m 

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, April 20, 2020 8:25 PM

Two midwestern systems with a long history of first class service had seriously reduced passenger service by 1970.  One had two trains that still carried diners and sleepers, the other had none.  For the day trains both carried less-than-full-service food options under names that (maybe) made them sound a little better than "basic food service".  Name the railroads and their respective trademarked food services.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 10:19 AM

One of them was C&NW with "Sip-and-Snack" cars on its bi-level streamliners.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:45 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

One of them was C&NW with "Sip-and-Snack" cars on its bi-level streamliners.

 

Correct!  C&NW's "Sip & Snack" service used space built into the 1958 bilevels.  C&NW also converted a prewar diner and diner-lounge to match the bilevels with a raised roof. The diners were out of service by 1968.

The other railroad had three cars rebuilt from regular diners for the particular food service on what was still one of its better trains.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, April 21, 2020 7:48 PM

The Rock Island had Snack Beverage cars.

Johnny

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:39 AM

Deggesty

The Rock Island had Snack Beverage cars.

 

The  railroad I'm looking for still had two trains carrying diners in 1970; one of them did not make it to "A day", though the other did.  The cars used for the reduced-service dining shared part of their name with a much-hated near-equivalent invented by a western railroad in the same era.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:04 AM

Couldn't be the Pennsylvania, could it?

Automatic buffet?  mid-Fifties?

Of course they still had a potload of diners operating 'elsewhere' while that was being run.

We won't go into SP automatic/automat service.  There are some essential requirements for actual restaurant automats that are difficult ... or self-defeating ... for railroad use.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:40 AM

The service only shared part of the name with SP's Automat Buffet.  The midwestern train carrying these cars still carried first class daytime equipment, including an observation car.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 10:00 AM

 

 

 

 

 

Wabbash?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 10:30 AM

Milwaukee Road, with its "Buffeteria" cars on the Morning Hiawatha.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 4:22 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

Milwaukee Road, with its "Buffeteria" cars on the Morning Hiawatha.

 

You win a cellphane-wrapped sandwich!  Buffeteria cars provided table seating and buffet-style service, but did have a real food service attendant. The last train on the Milwaukee with an MILW diner was the Pioneer Limited, only for breakfast.  The City of Everywhere ran with one or more UP diners, depending on the season.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 4:43 PM

Am I correct in thinking that one of the railroad museums has preserved a Buffeteria car, and has made a request for funds to restore it?

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:10 PM

Overmod

Am I correct in thinking that one of the railroad museums has preserved a Buffeteria car, and has made a request for funds to restore it?

 

At IRM - https://www.irm.org/donations/milwaukee-road-126/

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 3:51 AM

Waiting for South Shore's question.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Sunday, May 3, 2020 10:27 AM

My apologies for the delay.  For a brief period in the 1960's, EL 5 and 6, the "Lake Cities", operated under a different name.  What was the name and reason for the change?

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, May 3, 2020 2:33 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

My apologies for the delay.  For a brief period in the 1960's, EL 5 and 6, the "Lake Cities", operated under a different name.  What was the name and reason for the change?

 

I do not recall the name (a Guide that has the information is in a box in my closet, and it is a lot of trouble for me to dig it out), but if I have the right idea, it had to do with the World's Fair in New York.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, May 3, 2020 2:35 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
My apologies for the delay.  For a brief period in the 1960's, EL 5 and 6, the "Lake Cities", operated under a different name.  What was the name and reason for the change?

Would that be "World's Fair" -- for 'fairly' obvious reason in '64 and '65?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, May 4, 2020 10:20 AM

Overmod got the name and reason so he gets the next question.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, May 4, 2020 12:31 PM

An Eastern railroad was notable for nearly halving the distance between two important cities with a fully grade-separated route, including a tunnel and a horseshoe curve.  A road improvement abruptly ruined its profitability, and it turned briefly to using early railbuses for at least some of its runs; that and a couple of wrecks in quick succession led to its being more or less summarily shut down.

Name the road, the cities, and the type of bus that was used.  Extra credit for pictures (which I expect will be forthcoming!)

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 5:08 AM

Bumping this so it doesn't get lost.  If this question is too weird, feel free to pose something different.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:40 PM

I don't have the answer, but I feel like this is an interurban, perhaps in Ohio?

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, May 21, 2020 11:19 AM

Try further east.  At comparable latitude.

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Posted by ZephyrOverland on Saturday, June 6, 2020 2:52 PM

Bumping this up.....any more clues?

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, June 6, 2020 4:12 PM

Mr.Smith is correct in the first half of his thinking.  And Mr. Klepper almost certainly aware of the answer...

The critical thing has to do with a certain road improvement.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, June 7, 2020 9:41 AM

Boston and Worcester?  But not grade-separated entering Boston, where Boston Elevated streetcar tracks were used east of Chestnut Hill.

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