Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 6:08 AM

Dave is correct, because I forgot to specify US or North America.  Here's 31:

Biddeford & Saco 31I was really looking for the NEXT car in Seashore's collection, acquired in 1940 from Public Service of New Hampshire, car 38, a "five window rapid" that ran between Manchester and Nashua NH, and remained in service in Manchester until 1940.  After a three year rewiring project (ask me some time about 16 candlepower lamps) 38 was released to the fleet for special use, though of course it's not seeing much, if any, this year.  It runs well, but still needs cosmetic work.

I'm not having much luck getting images to work today, so here's a link to the Museum's decriptive page:

 

https://collection.trolleymuseum.org/browse.php?id=00038INH

 

 

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, July 30, 2020 4:09 AM

I think I can help:

Beautiful car.  Glad it is preserved.

Name all the New York City subway routes (by desciption and current letter or number) that:

elevated-subway-elevated-subway

elevated-subway-elevated

subway-elevated-subway

In each case there is more than one.  Be sure to look at both directions.  And for this purpose, any track above grade, including bridge or embankment, is elevated

Not all are full-time in one catagory or another

And there is only one route:

elevated-subway-elevated-subway-elevated

Which? 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 3, 2020 2:35 AM

Is not there an reader interested enough in NYCity's subways to trace each line on the map to answer the question?

Should I ask a different question?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, August 3, 2020 10:35 AM

For those of us who don't live in New York City, the subway is still quite interesting but we're not THAT interested.  A more general interest question would probably get more responses.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 3, 2020 2:00 PM

Thanks for good advice!

Street running continues for a while longer om the South Shore/  Where did also exist earlier, during WWII and for a few years afterward?

And as a bonus, street running on CA&R, CNS&M, and CTA/CRT?

For those curious, the normal N's northerm yerminal at Ditmars Blvd. in Astoria, Queens, is on an elevated structure.  The N goes underground west of Queensboro Plaza Station for its trip under the East River, but emerges east Canal Street Station to cross the River a second time on the Manhattan Bridge, going underground on the Brooklyn side before stoping at or bypasssing DeKalb  Avenue station.  It comes up for air again from the 4th Avernue Subway, south of 59th Street Station, ronning first in a cut adjacent the LIRR line that was used by NYNH&H freights to reach Bay Ridge PRR caefloats, then on level ground,and ending on the Coney Island AStillwell Avenue Station elevated structure.  But late nights it does not use the Manhattan Bridge, staying underground bwetween its elevated sections.  

 

The E, F, N, and R cross the East River twice

 

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, August 4, 2020 12:02 PM

South  Shore's main line ran down Chicago Avenue in East Chicago Indiana until 1956.  Some of the cost of the relocation onto the bypass was borne by the Indiana Toll Road Authority.

CA&E had street running in St. Charles and Geneva on the St. Charles branch, some shared with the Aurora Elgin & Fox River electric (which quit there first) until 1937. AE&FR track was also used in Aurora until 1939.

Most of North Shore's Shore Line route was originally street running, with bits in Wilmette, Kenilworth and Waukegan remaining to the end of service, though much was relocated onto the C&NW's right-of-way in 1940.  In Milwaukee, the line in the street was technically the Chicago & Milwaukee Electric with the CNS&M as a tenant. Some track in Waukegan was used only by local CNS&M streetcars.

CRT didn't have any real street running, but L cars did quite a bit of ground level running using both poles and third rail.  There were some street level connections between CRT and CSL, more after the CTA takeover.  The Lake Street L ran in South Blvd. in both Chicago and Oak Park until moved onto the C&NW embankment in November 1962.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 3:15 AM

The South Boulevard operation of the Lake Street elevated line was reserved RoW street running, as is the Metra, former IC, South Chicago Branch even now.

Until sometime after WWII North Shore Shore Line trains penetrated further into downtown Waukegan on streetcar tracks shared with the Great Lakes - Waukeegan local streetcar line. 

You left out an important bit of South Shore street running.

about it.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 6:09 AM

Why not ask where you could see subway cars switching boxcars across a public road grade crossing?  Where the glaciers stopped.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, August 5, 2020 8:18 AM
Yes, let's have answers to that as well. RC certainly should be up to it!
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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, August 6, 2020 7:31 AM

South Shore also ran in South Bend Streets until 1970.

The North Shore station in downtown Waukegan was a fromer courthouse.  Tracks on Washington Street from Edison Court to downtown were maintained even after the streetcar line using them was discontinued to allow tansfer of interurban equipment.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:25 AM

rcdrye

South  Shore's main line ran down Chicago Avenue in East Chicago Indiana until 1956.  Some of the cost of the relocation onto the bypass was borne by the Indiana Toll Road Authority.

South Shore had picked up the property for the right-of-way prior the Great Depression, but by the time the permits were approved, South Shore had no money to build it.  The Toll Road Commission was looking for a route through the Calumet Region in the early 1950's and South Shore's property provided a useful solution for both.  South Shore deeded part of the right-of-way to the Toll Road Commission and the Commission built the embankment and bridges for both the Toll Road and South Shore.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:20 PM

So, sticking with Insull Roads... The Chicago Aurora & Elgin had three branch lines that survived until after WWII.  Of the three, one was surveyed as a bypass route a la CNS&M's Skokie Valley Route.  It was owned but never operated by CA&E.  One of the others remained in service (not by CA&E) into the 1980s.  Name the two branches.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, August 7, 2020 8:11 AM

Well, one branch was the far-west suburb Mahheim branch that ran south from the main CA&E line, which at that point had both C&AE and CRT trains, and this single-track branch was operated by one CRT shuttle-car.  I think this continuied into the CTA era. perhaps even up to the construction of the Congress Expressway.

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, August 7, 2020 10:20 AM

Close, but not quite.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, August 7, 2020 10:29 AM

I believe that he was thinking of the Westchester branch, which was operated as an extension of CRT's Garfield Park line.  CA&E never operated on that line.  The best analogy would be CRT's Skokie line if the rest of the Skokie Valley line was never built.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, August 7, 2020 2:07 PM

I'll let you guys split this one.  The Cook County branch left the main line at Bellwood, was operated only by overhead wire, and was mainly built to access two cemeteries for funeral traffic.  Shuttle service on the branch with a single car ran until the adjacent Westchester branch was completed in 1926 for CRT use.  Funeral trains were also operated with either CRT or CA&E equipment as late as 1934.

The Cook County branch had several industries and was valuable enough that the Indiana Harbor Belt shared part of it and took over when CA&E was abandoned and operated most of the branch until 1986. The IHB interchange in Bellwood was north of CA&E's main line and west of the IHB.  It also served as the Chicago Great Western interchange.

The Westchester Branch was originally intended to bypass Wheaton and re-connect with the Aurora branch a few miles west of there at Weisbrook Road.  It was only completed as far as Roosevelt Rd as a double track line.  Chicago Rapid Transit (later CTA) operated the line as a tenant for its entire 1926-1951 existence.  The Mannheim Rd extension, usually operated by a shuttle car from Roosevelt, was completed through what were then open fields in 1930.  Ironically the branch was abandoned just before Bellwood and Westchester became booming suburbs. Its path can still be traced in Westchester's street layout.

A stange event was the test runs of the 6000 series PCC "L" cars delivered in 1950, which made it all the way to the end of the Westchester branch the only time they were ever operated there.  5000 series articulated cars were regularly assigned to Westchester service as far as Roosevelt Rd until the service was discontinued.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Saturday, August 8, 2020 10:23 AM

Another giveaway of the location of the Westchester Branch is the power lines that still follow the right of way.  The same arrangement exists on parts of the Illinois Prairie Path (ex-CA&E).  I'll let Dave Klepper take the next question.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 9, 2020 5:14 AM

An easy one:

All through trains using Jacksonville Union Station (Terminal?) had one backup move either before or after the station stop except:

???

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 10, 2020 1:53 AM

You can give a generic response, not needing to name all the specific trains, and there was more than one.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, August 11, 2020 1:44 PM

Don't understand why this question has not been answered.

 

just lo◊Ěk at the track layout and who owed what, and the answer is obvious.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 3:18 AM

Do I need to ask still another question?

I'm sure many of you know the answer to the above one I asked.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, August 13, 2020 5:01 AM

What do I need to do to encourage an answer?

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, August 13, 2020 6:28 AM

If I remember right, only Southern's trains ran directly onto the FEC.  ACL trains turned to allow for west coast cars, and SAL entered and exited from the north.  That would include the Royal Palm among others.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, August 13, 2020 8:09 AM

I do not believe any Southern traFECins ran directly to the to ave the FEC.  But you have the right basic idea.

Which railroad did have several trains, three in winter and two in summer, that did?

Southern's through cars to and from Miami were generally switched to and from these trains.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, August 14, 2020 9:15 AM

One train that did not have a backup movement shared a name with one that did, and in light traffic summer months sometimes the two were combined north of Jacksonville.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 17, 2020 12:42 AM

Shocked at lack of correct reply.  The correct railroad had three through trains with the FEC in winter that did not need a Jacksonville backup move.

One was all-Pullman, ran mostly with an assortment of borrowed cars, was extra-fare at times, and featured a Bingo Game in the lounge car on each trip.

The railroad bought pasenger diesels a few years earlier than the Southern bought its first for the Southerner.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, August 17, 2020 6:00 AM

Are you looking for the ACL Miamian and its ilk, the east-coast-only trains that carried no west coast cars?  That would also include the Chicago-Miami South Wind and Dixie Flagler trains.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 17, 2020 10:45 AM

Where did you get the idea that I was concerned only with trains from the Midwest?

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, August 17, 2020 11:32 AM

I meant east cost of Florida...

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 1:07 AM

There was a very simple answer to the question, and your like Ptomlie (Speeling wrong) rather than Copernicus or Gallalao in esplaing the Soler System.

The simple answer to the question, which has taken too long, is:

All through trains useing the Florida East Coast between Jacksonville and Miami.

And this is true whether or not the dropped cars headed for Tampa, St. Pete, Manatee, Sarasota, or whatever.

Important trains were the Havana Special, the East Coast Champion, and the winter-only Florida Special.  The Royal Palm's through cars to Miami were handled on other trains.  The Dixie Flagler, City of Miami, and Miamian at times did run through to Miami as separate trains on the FEC.

But if you wish to ask the next question, by all means do so.

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