zugmann n012944 Using a term like "prison" when describing a cruise ship tells me two things. One, you have never been on a cruise, as a normal cruise is far from confining. Two, for some odd reason, you WANT cruise ships to go away. I don't see that in the future. I don't care if they survive or not (I have no interest in cruises), but I also don't want bailout money going to the companies that have their ships flagged in other countries. If they can make it after this on their own - good for them.
n012944 Using a term like "prison" when describing a cruise ship tells me two things. One, you have never been on a cruise, as a normal cruise is far from confining. Two, for some odd reason, you WANT cruise ships to go away. I don't see that in the future.
I don't care if they survive or not (I have no interest in cruises), but I also don't want bailout money going to the companies that have their ships flagged in other countries.
If they can make it after this on their own - good for them.
From the last I've heard foreign-flagged or "flag of convenience" cruise lines aren't getting any bailout money or loans. Nor should they. Aside from harbor or other port-associated fees they don't pay taxes here.
MiningmanI think you will see a significant permanent drop off in movie theatre goers and that may make it unprofitable to continue with that format.
I don't know. People need escape, and once this thing turns the bend, peole will need escape more than ever.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
I think you will see a significant permanent drop off in movie theatre goers and that may make it unprofitable to continue with that format.
Same with cruise ships. It's just specualtion. Perhaps the smaller operations will be fine. The big ones employ a lot people, maybe a lot of political support.
n012944Using a term like "prison" when describing a cruise ship tells me two things. One, you have never been on a cruise, as a normal cruise is far from confining. Two, for some odd reason, you WANT cruise ships to go away. I don't see that in the future.
zugmannbut there's still something about being in a theater with the huge screen and surround sound that being at home just doesn't capture.
Agreed. We don't go see a lot of movies at theaters, but we still enjoy the experience.
Even with Netflix and other streaming services, our local theaters seemed to still be holding their own.
York1 John
Miningman There will be permanent changes in business, transportation and society as a whole. Movie theatres may be done for. They should be done for anyway, Maybe Drive In's make a huge comeback. That works.
There will be permanent changes in business, transportation and society as a whole.
Movie theatres may be done for. They should be done for anyway, Maybe Drive In's make a huge comeback. That works.
That sounds like it is something you WANT to happen, not something that is really going to happen.
Miningman Cruise Ships are finito. Every time someone coughs all hell will break loose. They are prisons. You got to be nuts to ever take a cruise ship again, ever.
Cruise Ships are finito. Every time someone coughs all hell will break loose. They are prisons. You got to be nuts to ever take a cruise ship again, ever.
People have short memories. I remember right after 9/11 many people said that they would never fly again. The airlines posted record passenger counts last year. I am a member of a cruise line Facebook group, that I joined last year before my first cruise to learn more about the cruising process. It is currently filled with questions about when they will start cruising again, because the members of the group can't wait to get back out cruising.
Using a term like "prison" when describing a cruise ship tells me two things. One, you have never been on a cruise, as a normal cruise is far from confining. Two, for some odd reason, you WANT cruise ships to go away. I don't see that in the future.
An "expensive model collector"
MiningmanI said 'maybe' about movie theatres. I think they will die on their own. There will always be film festivals and such for the big screen aficionados.
I don't watch a lot of movies - but there's still something about being in a theater with the huge screen and surround sound that being at home just doesn't capture.
MiningmanHigher education will go on line in the future. You will have to go 'in' for labs, field schools, mid terms and finals
I've been amazed how much college is already done online. For many university students in my small town, this is no big deal academically. They were already doing this a lot at the physical university.
Low platform or high platform, design it all ahead of time. New cars, new platforms or old platforms, whatever.
Each compartment has its own intake and exhaust, nothing is passed thru. It's like each compartment was its own little train. Pressurize the cabin so the door is stable. Pump in oxygen, separate again each car, to make the trip a bit brighter and enjoyable, like the casinos do! Explosive bolts if need be.
Washrooms like on an airliner, attendant outside the doors. Small, but functional, make it not so welcoming and folks get the message beforehand. If you must you must but better before you board. 2 Male, 2 Female, 1 whatever self identified gender non specific. Attendant cleans up after each use. Here's a good novel idea... 'sneak a smoke' switch sucks out the air with powerful exhaust.
I said 'maybe' about movie theatres. I think they will die on their own. There will always be film festivals and such for the big screen aficionados.
Higher education will go on line in the future. You will have to go 'in' for labs, field schools, mid terms and finals so as invigulated and no Google.
ATLANTIC CENTRALBut, I don't know where you live, or how close the grocery store is, but my wife would never want to go to the store every other day, which is about 10 minutes away for us.
We live in a small town, and there is a local grocery store on the way home from my school. I got in the habit of stopping there nearly every day to buy what we needed for that evening.
Miningman There will be permanent changes in business, transportation and society as a whole. Movie theatres may be done for. They should be done for anyway, Maybe Drive In's make a huge comeback. That works. Cruise Ships are finito. Every time someone coughs all hell will break loose. They are prisons. You got to be nuts to ever take a cruise ship again, ever. Euclid pointed out a bigger problem and he is correct--- public transportation, especially subways. Maybe the beginning of the end of large cities. Complete redesign. Trains like Amtrak could go to high platform individual compartments. Why not? Education will be transformative too. All of this will be demanded by the public going forward from here on.
Euclid pointed out a bigger problem and he is correct--- public transportation, especially subways. Maybe the beginning of the end of large cities. Complete redesign. Trains like Amtrak could go to high platform individual compartments. Why not?
Education will be transformative too.
All of this will be demanded by the public going forward from here on.
Well. It all depends on where and how you lived before all this.........
Never went on a cruise, never wanted to...........
We don't use public transportation, don't really have much of that out here with the dairy cows and corn fields.......
Theaters, I can take them or leave them. I designed some of the first cutting edge surround sound speaker systems in the 80's, my home theater sounds and looks great, with no goof balls talking during the movie.
Only 34 confirmed cases in our county as of this morning.........
I agree this will change the world, the real question is exactly how? I'm not so sure ALL the public will demand the same things, a fact many supposedly educated and informed people don't seem to get.
Sheldon
York1 A big change for me and my wife has been talked about. We have vowed never to be caught like we were this time. We got used to going to the grocery store every other day, sometime two or three times a day. Now, once we are past this mess, we are going to try to keep at least a month's supply of most things.
A big change for me and my wife has been talked about.
We have vowed never to be caught like we were this time.
We got used to going to the grocery store every other day, sometime two or three times a day.
Now, once we are past this mess, we are going to try to keep at least a month's supply of most things.
Well everybody had life style ideas before this, and many will change theirs after this.
But, I don't know where you live, or how close the grocery store is, but my wife would never want to go to the store every other day, which is about 10 minutes away for us.
We were pretty well stocked, we have not even had to think about buying many things yet, like toilet paper.........
zugmann Miningman All of this will be demanded by the public going forward from here on. Most of the public I see wants stuff to return to more normal. theaters and schools included.
Miningman All of this will be demanded by the public going forward from here on.
Most of the public I see wants stuff to return to more normal. theaters and schools included.
I have to go with Zug on this one.
Now this is strictly my opinion, I'm not a sage and certainly no genius, but I am a student of history, and once this is all over and done with I think we'll see the economy come roaring back as it did in the post-WW2 era.
The paralell? Not exact, but during WW2 everyone who wanted a job could get a job. But at the same time people making money had few things to spend it on, considering rationing and the lack of consumer goods.
A post-war depression was predicted but it never happened. Once American manufacturing switched from wartime to consumer goods all that money burning holes in peoples pockets came out and got spent. Cars, refrigerators, new radios, new homes, you name it. There was an economic boom that lasted (more or less) for 20 years.
I suspect that once the "shelter-in-place" and lockdown orders due to this current crisis are lifted we'll see something similar to the post-war spending spree, at least among those with money to spend. It won't happen overnight of course, the post-war boom didn't happen overnight. But it did happen.
Just an opinion. Again, I'm not infallable. But I am a believer in the old saying "The more things change, the more they stay the same." And of course, human nature never changes.
MiningmanAll of this will be demanded by the public going forward from here on.
MiningmanTrains like Amtrak could go to high platform individual compartments. Why not?
Real good initial reason: there are nowhere near enough high platforms nationwide to make this sensible. You'd need stepboxes (or fold-out stairs or footboards) for every single side door everywhere there wasn't a high platform ... and you need the high platform the whole length of the train (or section of cars) so equipped, not just at one or two doors as the 'corridor' equivalent would provide.
The far better approach -- outside the NEC and a few current stations -- is to design the side-door stock as inherently low-floor and provide the necessary very low platforms for this adjacent to, or perhaps co-located with, stations that have the high platforms. There are the usual advantages with lower center of gravity, higher speed, easier pendulum tilt, etc. as well as vastly lower cost of 'reasonable accommodation' for people requiring it under the ADA.
You can then address the next critical question: the very large number of doors and door motors, and space inside pockets, involved in such designs. Theoretically you could make these with 'slam door' equivalent, or folding doors a la bus/streetcar, but these are not practical for even PRIIA speed with safety and reasonable (negative-pressure) space conditioning with individual-unit isolation. Let's hear your solution to this.
More fun with the disinfection that may be uniformly required -- the modern, augmented equivalent of the little paper seat covers in pay toilets. Perhaps dispensers for surface wipes, built-in hand sanitizers with very large reservoirs, misting devices for surface viral denaturation. Not difficult, not particularly expensive, lots of fun convincing current Amtrak personnel to stock and wipe regularly!
I won't go into the bathroom requirements, but they aren't fun. Reading between the lines, though, Amtrak personnel won't have to worry any more about 'certain cohorts' trashing the bathrooms!
Presumably there can be some sort of mobile food service that runs down the platform at stops, like the 'gamins' in Europe in the '20s, offering various kinds of service. Worked then, probably works both 'self-contained' (from one of the Viewliner bags appropriately fitted with lifts) or 'local option' (think Uber Eats using a cart instead of a car). And gets rid of the whole diner issue, without that troublesome need for accounting for all the expense, and without involving shame in cutting expensively-contracted-for amenities...
Miningman Trains like Amtrak could go to high platform individual compartments. Why not?
Especially if you can persuade people to pay a little extra for the added safety.
Convicted One Euclid So the new way of travel will be not to travel. We are leaving the service economy and entering the brave new, "Stay home economy." Hey, if this thing takes some of the wind out of the sails of the hucksters trying to promote HSR, it will be seen as a good thing in my book. Wonder how California is thinking about their little experiment right about now?
Euclid So the new way of travel will be not to travel. We are leaving the service economy and entering the brave new, "Stay home economy."
Hey, if this thing takes some of the wind out of the sails of the hucksters trying to promote HSR, it will be seen as a good thing in my book. Wonder how California is thinking about their little experiment right about now?
And then we will all cluster around the local politicians castle as serfs serving their master.............
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Another face-mask URL:
https://m.box.com/shared_item/https%3A%2F%2Fstanfordmedicine.box.com%2Fv%2Fcovid19-PPE-1-1
EuclidIt is not just the people who have caught the virus that are going to transform. It also includes those who worry they will catch it, and that is nearly everybody. I think the panic will die down eventually, but in the meantime, I think the panic will rise.
There are other effects that I suspect will be lasting. There will be vacant buildings standing testimony to the businesses that did not survive this downturn...who knows how long that might persist?
Locally I've seen two Subway franchises close down where their furniture inside is completely gone, despite the note on the door claiming the closing to be due to the pandemic. Likely the current malaise just accelerated a decision that had already been made, but that too is just speculation.
I liked his comparison to hurricanes and floods. It reminded me of driving along the Mississippi gulf coast in the mid 1980s. You'd see mile after mile of bustling development, and then just a segment that was absolutely barren except for a cropping of weeds. Asking the locals why,.. I was simply told "Camille"......which had come through 15 years earlier.
Calamities can have lasting effects despite the best of optimisim.
PJS1 Euclid When this virus is finally over, surviving society will be vastly transformed..................... Basically, all forms of public transportation will be highly stigmatized. The only way this will be overcome is to completely redesign the equipment........... Except for those families suffering a COVID-19 death, which even under the worst-case scenario probably will be less than 1% of the population, most people will have moved on within 12 to 18 months.
Euclid When this virus is finally over, surviving society will be vastly transformed..................... Basically, all forms of public transportation will be highly stigmatized. The only way this will be overcome is to completely redesign the equipment...........
It is not just the people who have caught the virus that are going to transform. It also includes those who worry they will catch it, and that is nearly everybody. I think the panic will die down eventually, but in the meantime, I think the panic will rise.
A recommended URL:
https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/03/23/face-masks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/
EuclidSo the new way of travel will be not to travel. We are leaving the service economy and entering the brave new, "Stay home economy."
For comparison, in the United States donors can give 'platelets' (part of the chain that produces clotting in wound healing) every 2 weeks. Presumably effective pheresis of immunoglobulins could be conducted on a similar basis, once the necessary experimentation is done.
I still have vague misgivings about the safety of this method of conferring 'immunity'.
EuclidThe only way this will be overcome is to completely redesign the equipment and marketing to promote the idea that public transportation is 100% sanitary, including the air we breathe.
Perhaps this raised awareness and the need to accomodate heightened sensitivities will ultimately be Boeing's salvation?
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
I think the problem with public transportation goes beyond just the need for distancing from other people. The problem is in the uncertainty of touched surfaces and airborne virus particles. It is more a matter of trust than the actual physical details of santization. Do you trust people to do a good job of surface sanitization? I don't.
I used to trust that hotel rooms were clean because I trusted the people who do the cleaning. But now we live in a different era where I do not trust hotel staff at all. The entire hotel experience feels like dealing with a con game. If they don't clean surfaces, there is no way in the world that anyone can prove that. So of course they don't clean surfaces.
So the new way of travel will be not to travel. We are leaving the service economy and entering the brave new, "Stay home economy."
South Korea has received requests from 121 countries for help with coronavirus testing, a foreign ministry official said on Wednesday, as authorities around the world come under intense pressure to curb the spread of the disease.South Korea's massive testing campaign, backed by intensive contact tracing, has been credited with helping slow the spread of coronavirus in the country, which once had the second largest outbreak after China."We're getting so many requests from various countries as we have built experience from the early outbreak. The number, which is now 121 countries, is rising by the day," the official said asking not be named citing diplomatic sensitivity.South Korea has set up a task force to determine how it can offer assistance, either with exports of kits or other humanitarian aid, the ministry official said.The official did not name the countries but South Korean test kit makers have contracts to supply U.S. states and countries including Italy.
Rest stops would make far greater sense.
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