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Amtrak NEC CAT and signal problems.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, August 6, 2022 1:19 PM

blue streak 1
Please excuse the previous post. For some reason when pasting items from Amtrak alerts crazy things happen.  

Crescent delayed so much has not been able to recover much schedule on NS.  Is 4;14 late as of this posting.

What I do not understand is exactly what the failure of the signal system causes so much delays.  First question is what caused the failre.

1.  Was signal power lost?  The 4400 volt 25 hZ  system power on this section was suppossed to have commercial power back up installed.  Do not know if that project is complete.  Amtrak on the New Haven - Boston segment restored commercial power after deciding that using CAT power only was not a good idea and restored commercial power back up to the signal system.

2.  Was it communication to signal system from CETA lost?

3.  Failure of dispatching office?

4.  Is there any provision for the system to revert to automatic block if communication lost to dispatch office?  Did observe it happen once in Orlando on Sun Rail which then used convential radio communication..

CADS and on site batteries at signal locations will permit a signal to show a proceed indication if one has been lined at a control point.  After that proceed indication is knocked down by a train, the signal will indicate STOP.  There are a multitude of reasons that a CADS is unable to clear a signal at a Control Point.

Trains must STOP at Control Points that display STOP indications.  Trains can get verbal permission of the Train Dispatcher to pass the STOP indication after insuring the switches at the Control Point are lined and locked for the train's movement.  Movement will be made at Restricted Speed until such time as a more favorable signal indication is observed by the train.  There are occasions when, for whatever the reason, a train may be unable to contact the Train Dispatcher by normal radio communications, then alternate means may be required.

Today the carriers utilize virtually all communication mediums available to have their CADS communicate with Control Points.  Communication mediums do fail and their failure is beyond the ability of the carriers to control as the carriers are customers of those that own an operate the mediums.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, August 6, 2022 11:18 AM

From amtrak alerts today (saturday) more delays due to Friday's delays.  Crew delays one possible delay due to HOS. 

SERVICE ADVISORY: All services operating between Washington (WAS) and Baltimore (BAL) may experience delays due to the residual effects of yesterday’s signal outage. Updates to follow as more information becomes available.

EDIT: Found this alert so maybe dispatcher had no way to go to / from signal system?

 

 
 
 
 
 
 

 

Amtrak Northeast
 
@AmtrakNECAlerts
·
 
SERVICE ALERT: Due to loss of signal communication, all rail travel between Washington (WAS) and Baltimore Washington Airport (BWI) and below is temporarily stopped. We will provide an update as more information becomes available.
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, August 6, 2022 10:34 AM

Please excuse the previous post. For some reason when pasting items from Amtrak alerts crazy things happen.  

Crescent delayed so much has not been able to recover much schedule on NS.  Is 4;14 late as of this posting.

What I do not understand is exactly what the failure of the signal system causes so much delays.  First question is what caused the failre.

1.  Was signal power lost?  The 4400 volt 25 hZ  system power on this section was suppossed to have commercial power back up installed.  Do not know if that project is complete.  Amtrak on the New Haven - Boston segment restored commercial power after deciding that using CAT power only was not a good idea and restored commercial power back up to the signal system.

2.  Was it communication to signal system from CETA lost?

3.  Failure of dispatching office?

4.  Is there any provision for the system to revert to automatic block if communication lost to dispatch office?  Did observe it happen once in Orlando on Sun Rail which then used convential radio communication..

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, August 6, 2022 10:21 AM
Yesterday sometime after 1730 there was a major failure of the signal system again south of Baltimore. A good esample is the Crescent left Baltimore 10 late and aarrived WASH 4:41 late. Several tains on the NEC had to have crews replaced due to HOS replacements.
 
Crescent Train 19, which departed New York (NYP) on 8/5, is currently stopped at Baltimore Washington Airport (BWI) due to signal issues between Washington (WAS) and Baltimore Washington Airport (BWI). Updates to come.
 
 
SERVICE ALERT UPDATE: Due to loss of signal communication, all rail travel between Washington (WAS) and Baltimore Washington Airport (BWI) and below has resumed at reduced speeds through the affected area. Residual delays are expected.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
A
 
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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Friday, July 15, 2022 9:29 PM

Perhaps there was a safty (worker protection) ground on the circuit that was being energized and the relay protection was not active (Hard to imagine) and they closed into the ground and the transformer had been previously damaged

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, July 15, 2022 2:33 PM

There was a major failure of the CAT south of PHL 30th  st station.  This failure apparently was not the failure of the CAT but of SEPTA transission lines.  Septa apparently had part of their transmission line taken off line.  SEPT Lenni - Lamokin line.  When Amtrak approved the line back on there was an immediatetransformer explosion and apparent over current on the Amtrak lines south of 30th street.  

According to the link below Septa is saying it is all Amtrak's fault.  Have to disagree.  Why would a transformer explode?  

1.  Rotation of phases 120 degrees apart.

2.  Two phases swapped causing a backward rotation of the 2 supplies.

3.  Possible different voltages to the two sides of transmission lines.

With either possibility it would have been SEPTA's responsibility to verify that all 3 conditions were met not Amtrak's.  Now why there was not at least temporary or more likely permanent comparsions to activate protect  circuits. 

Mr. Poon I will have to disagree.  Check link below and SEPTA link.

SEPTA, Re: Amtrak Chaos in Pennsylvania July 13-14 (trainorders.com)

SEPTA | Recent Service Delays

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, December 7, 2021 9:16 AM

blue streak 1
Another signal failre south of BAL about 2.1/2 hours cleared just befor 2100.

Acela Train 2126 is currently operating approx. 25min late due to earlier signal issues in Baltimore (BAL).

High winds during the night.  Gusts to 60 MPH

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, December 7, 2021 1:48 AM

Another signal failre south of BAL about 2.1/2 hours cleared just befor 2100.

Acela Train 2126 is currently operating approx. 25min late due to earlier signal issues in Baltimore (BAL).

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, September 17, 2021 4:12 PM

Appologize as this happened yesterday at about 1800 (6PM )

 

@AmtrakNECAlerts
·
23h
 
Train 173 is stopped outside Newark (NWK) due to downed power lines. Customers will be re-accommodated to Train 193.
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, September 17, 2021 3:50 PM

Amtrak has suffered downed CAT wires at or near the Portal bridge. Now we have wires that are not subject to trees so why has both tracks become inoperative ?  This poster believes that the PRR style of having all track's CAT wires supported by a single cross wire suspended from poles outside of the tracks is a receipt for tearing down all track's wires.  Now nothing has yet been posted as to why the wires are down but if a train snagged CAT on one track often all tracks or some other track's CAT will be pulled down.

 It really is time for Amtrak to get funds to convert all CAT to constant tension wire that will have each track's CAT physically isolated from all other tracks. We recognize that The locations that have the possibbility of 160 MPH tracks need doing first but Amtrak probably needs 1 or 2 more CAT construction crews employed.  That would certainly speed up conversion. It would enable more time for constant tension installations and leave more crew(s) not being diverted to the emergency repairs when needed.

Does anyone know how many AMTRAK  CAT construction and maintenance crews Amtrak has ?

Downed wires bring major delays on Amtrak, NJ Transit rail lines - nj.com

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, August 28, 2021 7:17 PM

Many tree species like to bend toward the sunlight.  Guess what -- RR ROW -- perfect location for tree to grow to.  Especially true for evergreens such as pine trees.

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, August 28, 2021 2:33 PM

aegrotatio
Amtrak did a massive tree removal project about ten years ago all the way to the property line. Might be time to do it again, if fallen trees are truly the reason for the delayed trains.

However, trees on the 'other side' of the property line don't know they shouldn't fall across the property line when their time comes.  Trees can weigh well over 100 tons and will fall where they fall.  Depending on how close active rail facilities are to the property line they can be easily damaged by falling trees from over the property line.

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Posted by aegrotatio on Saturday, August 28, 2021 2:21 PM

Amtrak did a massive tree removal project about ten years ago all the way to the property line. Might be time to do it again, if fallen trees are truly the reason for the delayed trains.

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, August 26, 2021 4:05 AM

It is time for Amtrak to get serious about tree removal on it ROW..  As well local private lands with potential tree damage needs notification of hazards..

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 11:14 PM

blue streak 1
Another bad day , Meteor  among other NEC trains  WASH - BAL  CAT problems from about 1830 till about 2300

Silver Meteor Train 97 which departed New York (NYP) on 8/11 is stopped north of Washington (WAS) due to overhead power issues in the area. We will update as more information becomes available.

Line of severe T'storms passing through the Baltimore-Washinton area.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, August 11, 2021 10:40 PM

Another bad day , Meteor  among other NEC trains  WASH - BAL  CAT problems from about 1830 till about 2300

Silver Meteor Train 97 which departed New York (NYP) on 8/11 is stopped north of Washington (WAS) due to overhead power issues in the area. We will update as more information becomes available.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, August 2, 2021 3:26 PM

Must be a major CAT problem as still problem starting at 1030 and still at 1330

Acela Train 2103 is still stopped outside of Washington (WAS) due to an overhead power issue. We will update as more information becomes available.

EDIT found earlier tweet that solved about 1330

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, July 5, 2019 6:52 PM

More CAT power problems at Newark and north of Baltimore

 

Train 160 is currently operating about 30min late due to earlier overhead power issues at Newark (EWR); and speed restrictions and rail congestion east of New Rochelle (NRO).

 

 

 

Acela Train 2258 is currently operating about 20 minutes late due to a power issue north of Baltimore.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, July 3, 2019 2:20 PM

blue streak 1
 
BaltACD 

Maintaining trees on property you own is one thing - eliminating trees as a potential problem on property you don't own is another. 

Do not know property laws in each state of Amtrak's ROW.  However here any tree or vegetation cutting the plane of property can be removed by owner of property not tree owner.  We just have case of a person removing tree limbs of another property's tree threating his home.  Tree owner refused to balance his tree.   This tree then fell onto tree owners home and he has no recourse against trimmer because of the over weight parts of tree falling on his home. 

BTW full disclosure have a neighbor's tree liimb threating my home.

What I am referring to is tree(s) say 100 feet tall - 20 feet (or so) from the property line falling across the property line and onto Amtrak facilities.  I am not talking about a overhanging branch.

Visited my son in Kansas in the middle of May.  They had a windy T'storm and at a property 'down the street' a fully mature 'live' old tree was blown over with the root structure ending up 7 - 8 feet in the air.  Fortunately, no dwelling structures were impacted, however the top of the tree was on the 3rd property over, not just the neighbors property.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, July 3, 2019 10:20 AM

BaltACD
 

Maintaining trees on property you own is one thing - eliminating trees as a potential problem on property you don't own is another.

 

 

Do not know property laws in each state of Amtrak's ROW.  However here any tree or vegetation cutting the plane of property can be removed by owner of property not tree owner.  We just have case of a person removing tree limbs of another property's tree threating his home.  Tree owner refused to balance his tree.   This tree then fell onto tree owners home and he has no recourse against trimmer because of the over weight parts of tree falling on his home. 

BTW full disclosure have a neighbor's tree liimb threating my home.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, July 3, 2019 8:00 AM

blue streak 1
Keystone trips cancellled de to trees in the CAT.  Another example of  Amtrak not maintaining the ROW.  It is only necessary action to prevent these problems by triming any trees in ROW that will sooner or later fall onto CAT.  Trees all get old, rotten, and eventually die and some will fall onto CAT.

https://twitter.com/AmtrakNECAlerts/status/1146222533542330375 

Problem worse as cancellations may exted into July 4th

https://www.amtrak.com/alert/modified-amtrak-keystone-service-this-wednesday-morning.html

Maintaining trees on property you own is one thing - eliminating trees as a potential problem on property you don't own is another.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, July 3, 2019 1:54 AM

Keystone trips cancellled de to trees in the CAT.  Another example of  Amtrak not maintaining the ROW.  It is only necessary action to prevent these problems by triming any trees in ROW that will sooner or later fall onto CAT.  Trees all get old, rotten, and eventually die and some will fall onto CAT.

https://twitter.com/AmtrakNECAlerts/status/1146222533542330375

 

Problem worse as cancellations may exted into July 4th

https://www.amtrak.com/alert/modified-amtrak-keystone-service-this-wednesday-morning.html

 

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, June 17, 2019 7:55 PM

blue streak 1
Although not a  
Amtrak problem Amtrak took a hit in New Haven.  Problem fixed at about 1300,
 

 

Service Alert Update: There are still ongoing overhead power issues in New Haven (NHV). We now have 2 of the 4 tracks back in service. Trains traveling through the area may experience a delay. We will update as more information becomes available.

 

Here is MNRR's explanation. Note that one track is out of service for installation in the area for constsant tension CAT. Just one more reason for Amtrak to get off its duff and replace all the old PRR style on its tracks.

http://web.mta.info/supplemental/mnr/mnr_weather_info.html

Easy to spend OPM that they don't have.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, June 17, 2019 6:21 PM
 
Although not a  Amtrak problem Amtrak took a hit in New Haven.  Problem fixed at about 1300,
 

 

Service Alert Update: There are still ongoing overhead power issues in New Haven (NHV). We now have 2 of the 4 tracks back in service. Trains traveling through the area may experience a delay. We will update as more information becomes available.

 

Here is MNRR's explanation. Note that one track is out of service for installation in the area for constsant tension CAT. Just one more reason for Amtrak to get off its duff and replace all the old PRR style on its tracks.

http://web.mta.info/supplemental/mnr/mnr_weather_info.html

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, February 25, 2019 8:00 PM

Slightly off topic but did not find it on Amtrak but appears Amtrak still has not cleared the ROW of possible trees fouling tracks

MARC Service Alert <alert@mtamarylandalerts.com>
To:MTA Maryland Alerts Subscriber
 
Feb 25 at 9:47 AM
 
MARC Penn Line Southbound Trains will see delays arriving to Union Station due to an Amtrak train striking a tree south of Landover.  Details to follow.
 
EDIT and another tree !!! 
 

Train 283 is now stopped due to a downed tree in its path outside of Amsterdam (AMS). We will update as more information becomes available. 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, January 31, 2019 7:10 PM

CAT failure at Sunnyside yard in New York today.  Delayed trains this afternoon.

 

Keystone Train 655 is currently operating about 50min late due to earlier overhead catenary wire issues outside of the Sunnyside Yard at New York (NYP). Please check or our mobile app for status updates

 

EDIT; here is Amtrak bulletin about CAT problems.

https://www.amtrak.com/alert/service-delays-at-new-york-penn-station.html

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 9:58 PM

Off topic but had a rail failure on MARC portion on NEC

 
  •  
    MARC Service Alert <alert@mtamarylandalerts.com>
    To:MTA Maryland Alerts Subscriber
     
    ‎Jan‎ ‎22 at ‎9‎:‎11‎ ‎AM
     
    Due to emergency Amtrak track repairs, southbound service at Seabrook station is temporarily suspended.  All northbound trains will stop as scheduled.  Passengers traveling from points north to Seabrook should remain on their train to either New Carrollton or Washington to return back to Seabrook on a northbound train.  All tickets will be honored on northbound trains.  Passengers boarding at Seabrook headed south should use the New Carrollton station.  Updates will be provided later this afternoon regarding the status of the track repairs.

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, January 10, 2019 11:44 AM

Signal problems again in WASH area.

MARC Service Alert <alert@mtamarylandalerts.com>
To:MTA Maryland Alerts Subscriber
 
‎Jan‎ ‎10 at ‎12‎:‎21‎ ‎PM
 
Train 429 (1135am Dpt Penn) is operating with a 10-15 minute delay.  We anticipate this delay to go upwards of 20-25 minutes due to an Amtrak experiencing an signal outage. Updates will follow. Next station is Bowie

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, December 27, 2018 6:37 PM

signal problems again.\

MARC Service Alert <alert@mtamarylandalerts.com>
To:MTA Maryland Alerts Subscriber
 
‎Dec‎ ‎27 at ‎5‎:‎17‎ ‎PM
 
MARC Penn Line Trains may incur some delays getting into and out of Penn Station due to signal issues.B  Updates to follow as they become available.

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, December 21, 2018 12:43 PM

Evidently power restored about 0400.  However due to conflicting reports unable to confidently assign this to CAT or another type of power failure .

 

UPDATE: Power has been restored. Acela 2173 and Train 175 have arrived at WAS, Trains 2175, 187 and 177 are next to be on the move.

 

 

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