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LION 2013

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Monday, October 28, 2013 2:43 PM

Yes, that is right!  And I'm not sure which it is either.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 28, 2013 2:11 PM

I think this is one of the Archeer Avenue Stations in Jamaica, but I cannotg tell which on it is. Most likely the terminal station right by the LIRR Jamaica Station.  This is the upper level, the E (I think) is on the lower level.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Monday, October 28, 2013 10:34 AM

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 28, 2013 2:53 AM

My feeling of being miffed by having the wrong answer is vastly overcome by thankfullness of being kept uptodate on what is happening.   No wonder i could not recognize the station.   What a change.  Hopefully, the completed station will look even better than what i remember and what is in your ealier photograph.

Other numbers used by the BMT, seen on the Multis.   L = 16      Franklin Avenue = 7 (Little Zepher).  Leffferts Avenue - 14th & 8th = 13,  Myrtle-Metropolitan - Chambers St. = 15.

More on the changes to the West End.   Classically, the Via Bridge Expresses had Times Square as the north terminal, with the express tracks north of that station used as the pocket tracks, and the Brighton Local and 4th Avenue local continuing mostly to Queensboro Plaza or short turning at 57th Street.  But after the rearangement at Queensboro Plaza, with Flushing exclusively IRT and Astoria BMT, trains that reversed Queensboro Plaza now continued to Astoria.  The next step was the 60th Street tunnel IND Queens Plaza connection.   Someetimes 4th Avenue trains went to Astoria and Brighton trains to Forest Hills.   Sometimes the reverse.   And the trains that reversed at Times Square now did so at 57th Street.   This was the regular pattern of service.  But in 1964 I distinctly remember T - West End trains running to Astoria, I rode one inbound from Astoria.   This probably contiued until the Chrystie Street reconfiguation.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 28, 2013 2:29 AM

The rush hour turn-back at Kings Highway is an old story.   Even in the D train days some trains turned back at Kings Highway.  Earlier, during rush hours, when the BMT Culver Line ran into the 4th Avenue Subway, all rush hour steel equipment turned at Kings Highway, simply because of the BMT;s shortage of steel cars.  Service beyond during rush hours was provided by the elevated trains before unification and by the same equipment, then the C's relocated from Fulton Street, running Coney island - 9th Avenue.

Brighton Expresses to Manhattan turned back at Brighton Beach Station.    Rush hours, West End steel equipment turned back at Bay Parkway, with some West End Nassau Loop locals turning back at 62nd Street.  Gate car shuttles with subway shoes ran shuttle Bay Parkway - Coney Island.   The pre-Chrystie Street designation was the T, Times Square via Bridge to Bay Parkway during the rush, otherwise Coney Island.   The TT was the local via tunnel to Nassau Loop via Bridge to Brooklyn.   The D-types carried the 3 sign when they ran on West End, 1 on Brighton, and 4 on Sea Beach.   Never saw them on Culver.   

So I give LION credit:    D, B, T, TT, 3, just one short of G. F. GG, D, E, A.  Church Avenue still holds the record.

During rush hours in the classic era, Stillwell Avenue Station looked like half an elevated train station and only half a subway station. with four tracks occupied by gate cars, Culver and West End, and four by steelc cars, Sea Beach and Brighton. 

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, October 27, 2013 8:02 PM

The (F) ran on the Culver Line ever since the (D) train got moved to the Manhattan Bridge and the Brighton Line. The (F) with the sign for Kings Highway (I did not notice that) was simply a short turn to get it back into rush hour traffic more quickly.

The (Q) has always been on the Brighton Line, and the (N) on the Sea Beach. The West End line has traditionally been jacked around. Other things have run on the Brighton Line, but the (Q) never ran anyplace else.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by henry6 on Sunday, October 27, 2013 7:19 PM

Today the F train goes all the way to Coney Island and the G train goes to Church.  They keep moving the routes around you have to have an app open at all times!   I think when this pic was taken the F train ran on the line which the B train run's with the Q today and King's Highway was a turn around point and the F did not go to Coney Island, nor Brighton Beach.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, October 27, 2013 5:28 PM

This station, deep as it is, was never troubled by Sandy. It is new work under construction. I'm not sure if it ever had a wall with tiles, or if they had been removed for the second avenue subway project.

Here is a 2010 shot of this location.

You can still see the finished tile work on the floor, but the red tile wall is gone, replaced with temporary wooden boards. When finished there will be a track in that place instead of the wall. Indeed, the track is already there, used for Broadway layups, but that is where the 2nd Ave Line will live.

Here is another photo from a moving train. Clearly the entire station shell was removed for the construction project.

In my photo you can see the row of hangers that held the old ceiling.

The [4] tag is correct for a train coming in the other direction, the tracks can be used in either direction if need be.

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The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 27, 2013 2:15 PM

LION is correct, and I must apologize again.   Close inspection, now, indicates what looked to me like pre-WWI mosaic tile (installed by the skilled crafsmen of the period) is just exposed block discolored by storm damage.   And obviously, the trackbed hs also been replaced, probably since Sandy.  The signs cannot be wrong.   (Did LION remove them with his photo expertize for the first presentation of the photograph on the thread?  Somehow, I don't remember them in the photograph that I first saw, but then things do go bump in the night in the ME.)  And the marker may be in the wrong place, but the reason may be that it was found someplace and just locsted temporarily.    Or was it located by LION's skilled photographic manipulation?   Proably just located improperly, temporarily.    Now if someone else visits the station and photographs, will we suddenly see the wall station locaton signs appear?    Again, discounting storm damage, all NYCTA stations have wall station signs.   I do not know of any exception other than Stillwell Avenue and those elevated stations that have only island platforms and essentially no oiutside walls.    And the new station at Stillwell may have the signs, but the old one did not have exterior walls.

.

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Posted by henry6 on Sunday, October 27, 2013 12:00 PM

My location changes....there is no downstairs on the R platform....sign also points to F train to Queens.  So, this proves me wrong but makes my statement of storms damages more pertinent.,

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, October 27, 2013 11:38 AM

daveklepper
I am still convinced you have mixed up your photographs.   Like you did with the photo near the end of the L Canarsie Line with the IRT near Janius Station on Livonia Avenue going to New Lots Avenue in the distant background.

THIS ONE????

This is on the E 180th Street Station in da BRONX

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, October 27, 2013 11:29 AM

Here is the unedited photo. If you hae any more questions, the LION will be happy to have you  over for lunch.

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Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, October 27, 2013 11:16 AM
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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 27, 2013 11:03 AM

Henry, I respect your statement and give you credit.  If the storm damage removed the signs, I can understand.  I still don't understand the location of the 4-car marker (for a reverse, or southbound move yet!), but perhaps that is temporary was put in the wrong place by mistake.   And the 9th Avenue and 4th Avenue Station certainly was built before WWII (opened in 1915, before WWI, in fact).  And the track is slab-track, without the usual wood stub ties or ties of any sort, rail separated from concrete by an artificial rubber continuous pad.  This must be a post-Sandy type of track reconstruction that is new to the system.  But what happened to the service and ventilation openings to the center express tracks that I remember?   One had to duck to use them, but there were openings at one time.

And the Manhattan R-train station is at 8th Street, not 9th.    Apologies to LION and hats off to you, Henry!

And LION, in a sense you are correct, the F (and the G) are upstairs, in the same fare zone.

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Posted by henry6 on Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:53 AM

Dave and Lion.  I rode the R train in Brooklyn up from 36th St. to 9th to get the G or F train.  I swear on a stack of tokens and  metrocards this is the R train pulling into 9th St, northbound with the small entrance to the G/F connection at the far south end of the station.  It is absent all kinds of signs, etc because of Sandy and others' storm damage, etc.  It was only about a month or so ago that my Ridewithmehenry troop was there; two Transit officers were walking the platform toward us at this point and greeted us and pointed the way to the G/F exit and saw to it that the station "agent" was able to give us full MTA maps at our request.  

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:52 AM

I am still convinced you have mixed up your photographs.   Like you did with the photo near the end of the L Canarsie Line with the IRT near Janius Station on Livonia Avenue going to New Lots Avenue in the distant background.

Look at the design of the mosaic of the orange stripe running along the wall.  That is certainly not post-WWII.   You won't convince me otherwise until you go back next summer and take another look.

It may not be the PATH station I think it is, but it certainly is not an NYCTA station.   I did ride through 63St and Lex twice, and I certainly would have noticed if it had been as marked a departure from normal contemporary NYCTA practice.   Another give-away.   Notice where the 4-car marker is with respect to the length of the station.   The station is not on a line running 600 ft trains, 10 60-foot cars or 8 75-foot cars, but a line running shorter trains, six or possibly 8 50-foot cars.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:36 AM

Well, it *is* and IND station. It *is* as was said, on the (F) Line. It is as can be seen, undergoing a major renovation, and once finished the (Q) train will be across the platform. It is indeed the 63rd Street Station, and the construction is in benefit of the Second Avenue Subway.

And that is one heck of a DEEP station. And the new LIRR Grand Central line is BELOW that.

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The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:30 AM

At 9th Street Manhatan and at 9th Street in Brooklyn, in both places, the R train is in a four-track subway, with a local station, and pillars separating the local track from the express track, on both sides of the RofW, not an unperforated wall.   And ALL NYCTA stations have station designation signs on the outside walls.  The design and typography may vary, but the signs are always there.

If it is not Christopher Street, then just possibly Pavonia, or whatever it is called now (used to be Pavonia-Erie).   But it not an NYCTA station, not IRT, BMT, or IND.    I don't know of any LIRR or MN station that looks remotely like that.   I'll stick with Christopher Street, PATH.

As I also stuck with the Canarsie line photo.

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:15 AM

Lexington Avenue and 63rd Street-under renovation for Second Avenue Subway?

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, October 27, 2013 9:17 AM

The last pictures were of an (F) train at Smith 9th Street, and another at Ditmas Avenue.  I said this was the same line, but a different place.

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The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by henry6 on Sunday, October 27, 2013 8:16 AM

R train, 9th St.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 27, 2013 8:01 AM

With the absence of station designation signs on the wall, and the kind of track construction, I would guess this to be a PATH-H&M station.  Christopher Street?  Looks famlier, and I did spend a night there doing acoustical/sound system measurements September 1995.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, October 27, 2013 7:13 AM

Same Line, different location...

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 26, 2013 4:13 PM

PREVIOUS POST HAD A GOOF:   Steelwork and the shuttle track were added when the Culver Local was cut back from Coney Island to Ditmas Avenue, the Culver Express cut back from K|ings Highway  to Ditmas Avenue, and the rush hour Coney Island - 9th Avenue trains eliminated, repalced by the D and the Culver service to Ditmas Avenue.   The 9th Avenue - Ditmas Avenue shuttle came later, around the time of the Christie Street conenction opening, and the replacement of the D by the F on the Culver elevated structure Ditmas - Coney |sland, zero Nassau Loop service, and no Culver trains in the 4th Avenue subway..   

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 26, 2013 1:51 PM

Interesting that the steelwork, added for the shuttle service before the through "Culver Local,  Ditmas Avenue - Chambers Street  via Tunnel (and "Nassau Cut")" non-rush hours, and Culver Express, Ditmas Avenuie - Chambers Street, via Bridge to Nassau Loop, via Tunnel to Brooklyn" service quit, replaced by the shuttel, is still in place at the station.  Note that the ram p from the subway is four-tracks wide, with the switches to three traacks almost at the station.  There seems to be some argument regarding  connection of the shuttle track to the southbound local track.  I think the answer is that the steelwork was provided, but the switch and short tradk extensionn were never installed, and the shuttle track ended at a bummping block at the south end of the platform.

In the says when the BMT Culver trains "owned" the line,  and there was onlly one track installed on the ramp (installed in 1940, just after Unification) for equipment transfers and deliveries, it was connected to the northbound local track and got the straight through signal indication, with yellow shown for the regular run.  They did not allter the signal at the north end of the platform to show two indications, normmally, green ofer yelow would have been the IND and BMT signal (red  over green for the IRT), but just a single yellow indication.  Now there are two indicaations on the signal installed when the service was diverted to the IND and the subway, with the D providing Concourse to Coney Island service.   The F returned when Christie was opend and the D on the Manhattan Bridge and Brighton line.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:27 AM

Brooklyn.

McDonald Avenue. The IND pops out of the tunnel, the original Culver line bent off to the left. For a few years it ran as the Culver Shuttle, but that too is now long gone. Just below the station (I am standing on the platform) is the famous Trainworld where at the LION buys subway cars for his layout.

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:17 AM

NorthWest

Beautiful photo! I love the sky and lighting. Smith and 9th is the highest spot on the system, right? 

This they say, but I am not so sure. It surely is the highest place in relation to the ground under it, but me thinks that stations on the Broadway Line (perhaps 137th Street or 181st Street) may be higher (albeit under ground) vis a vis Sea Level. Ground level there is around 285 feet. The adjacent IND line has long elevator shafts to take passengers to the street.

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by NorthWest on Friday, October 25, 2013 10:30 PM

Beautiful photo! I love the sky and lighting. Smith and 9th is the highest spot on the system, right? 

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Friday, October 25, 2013 9:31 AM

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, October 25, 2013 3:58 AM

Please note the correction to a previous posting.   There was no F train when the IND line to Church Avenue opened.  I am puzzled because I was certain I had typed A.   But thiings  do go bump in the night in the ME, and in any case the correction is now made, and what a variety  of roustes this one line has seen, A, D, E, F, G-GG!

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