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Continental European Railway Operations

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Posted by MStLfan on Monday, August 21, 2006 10:22 AM

 beaulieu wrote:
 martin.knoepfel wrote:
Rail4Chem is focused on chemicals. Other OA-carriers as well as the state-owned companies haul a large degree of differtent goods.


Martin, Rail4Chem certainly hauls a lot of chemicals, its biggest stockholder is BASF, but they are also the third largest contractor for Hupac, ahead of Trenitalia, TX Logistics, and Dillen & LeJeune Cargo. So they are big in Intermodal too.

I see them regularly hauling a grain train in front of my house on the Rotterdam Central to Dordrecht line. So it probably comes from northern or eastern Germany / Europe and goes to a terminal in Rotterdam harbor.

Power is a class 66 and more and more they use there own hoppers (green).

greetings,

Marc Immeker

For whom the Bell Tolls John Donne From Devotions upon Emergent Occasions (1623), XVII: Nunc Lento Sonitu Dicunt, Morieris - PERCHANCE he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.
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Posted by TH&B on Monday, August 21, 2006 11:49 AM

 

Bon't dissmiss the two axle freight car.

Two axle cars are light and simple (therefore cheap) to build. They ride well enough for much freight on good track, they can be  bumpy though. European track is often much smoother then US track so the US would have a tracking problem with long 2 axle cars. Some modern German 2 axle freight cars are good for 125mph.

Some 4 axle cars in Europe for lumber and stuff are just a pair of two axle cars permanently coupled together and can carry more then a single 4 axled car with two bogies.

 

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Posted by beaulieu on Monday, August 21, 2006 12:08 PM
 marcimmeker wrote:

 beaulieu wrote:
 martin.knoepfel wrote:
Rail4Chem is focused on chemicals. Other OA-carriers as well as the state-owned companies haul a large degree of differtent goods.


Martin, Rail4Chem certainly hauls a lot of chemicals, its biggest stockholder is BASF, but they are also the third largest contractor for Hupac, ahead of Trenitalia, TX Logistics, and Dillen & LeJeune Cargo. So they are big in Intermodal too.

I see them regularly hauling a grain train in front of my house on the Rotterdam Central to Dordrecht line. So it probably comes from northern or eastern Germany / Europe and goes to a terminal in Rotterdam harbor.

Power is a class 66 and more and more they use there own hoppers (green).

greetings,

Marc Immeker



The grain is a joint venture with their "European Bulls" alliance partner in the Czech Republic, Viamont.


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Excellent first half 2006 figures for Hupac Ltd.
Posted by beaulieu on Monday, August 21, 2006 12:20 PM
Hupac Ltd. has reported the traffic figures for the first half of 2006 and they show a continuation of the strong growth from 2005.

Service                                           1st half 2005           1st half 2006       change

UCT transalpine IM                     184,854 units           215,550  units         +16.6 %

UCT other  IM                             56,734 units              72,999 units          +28.7 %

Rolling Highway                            13,404 units              11,030 units          -17.8 %


Total                                        254,983 units          299,579 units            +17.5 %


The Rolling Highway figures are hurt by the restrictive clearances in the tunnels on the Gotthard route.
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Posted by martin.knoepfel on Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:11 PM
From the office I work in, I can see a lot of trains passing the station of Weinfelden in the Eastern region of Switzerland. Some of the four-wheeler freight-cars look quite new  with shining alu-sides. (Some are already  sprayed with graffitti!)
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Posted by MStLfan on Thursday, August 24, 2006 5:32 PM
 Hugh Jampton wrote:
 Murphy Siding wrote:

 beaulieu wrote:
Here is a first look at the new Vossloh built, GM powered Euro 4000 locomotive. This is a SD70M-2 in a European package.

Euro 4000

     Maybe it's just me, but I liked the look of the smaller road switchers in the photos better.  What are they?



They appear to be Vossloh G-1200s
http://www.vossloh-locomotives.com/fs_main.html
(you'll need to poke around a bit to find them)

or possibly they're G 1100s if this site is to be believed http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/private/port/SK/pix.html


in any event Seehafen Kiel is the Port of Keil and these engines are part of their railway.

This site gives more details about locomotives build in Kiel:

http://www.loks-aus-kiel.de/index.php?nav=1000001

Unfortunately it is only in German. It is not difficult to navigate. If anyone has problems with translating contact me.

Firmengeschichte gives a little history of locomotive building in Kiel.

Typenbeschreibungen gives descriptions of the various locomotive types build.

Lieferlisten are lists of worksnumbers, note: numbers are not from 1 to the last but by type / power.

Fuhrpark-Übersichten gives information on leasing pools and the various types of railway customers.

If the Seehafen Kiel loks are G1100's then they are 2nd generation otherwise 3rd generation (up to G1206).

greetings,

Marc Immeker

For whom the Bell Tolls John Donne From Devotions upon Emergent Occasions (1623), XVII: Nunc Lento Sonitu Dicunt, Morieris - PERCHANCE he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.
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Posted by Simon Reed on Friday, August 25, 2006 2:17 AM

Marc and Martin - I'm very jealous!

Marc - I'll have ridden past your home on countless occasions but what a cavalcade of trains you'll be able to watch no wonder you're so knowledgable.

Martin - I've ridden through Weinfelden a few times but I've never ridden the MtHB route from Wil to Konstanz. It's high on my list for my next visit to Switzerland. 

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 25, 2006 6:28 PM

 440cuin wrote:

Don't dissmiss the two axle freight car.

Two axle cars are light and simple (therefore cheap) to build. They ride well enough for much freight on good track, they can be  bumpy though. European track is often much smoother then US track so the US would have a tracking problem with long 2 axle cars. Some modern German 2 axle freight cars are good for 125mph.

Some 4 axle cars in Europe for lumber and stuff are just a pair of two axle cars permanently coupled together and can carry more then a single 4 axled car with two bogies.

That's kind of the point I'm trying to make.  Europe has a long running experience with single axle bogies.  Because of this familiarity, the European railroads will probably be more accepting of new railcar designs that incorporate single axle concepts than the US railroads have.

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Posted by MStLfan on Friday, August 25, 2006 6:36 PM

Thanks for the compliment Simon but notice that Beaulieu comes up with all those details.

By the way, summer season limits my visibility of the railroad because all the trees have leaves.

greetings,

Marc Immeker

For whom the Bell Tolls John Donne From Devotions upon Emergent Occasions (1623), XVII: Nunc Lento Sonitu Dicunt, Morieris - PERCHANCE he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, August 25, 2006 10:03 PM
   The April 1995 issue of Trains Magazine has a little blurb about an order of roadrailers sold to a German company.  The contract was for 150 trailers and 78 removeable rail bogie wheelsets.  They were said to be testing in Scandanavia, and would be run by a Bavarian firm over state owned railways in Germany, Austria and Italy.  Did anything ever become of this experiment?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by beaulieu on Friday, August 25, 2006 11:27 PM
 Murphy Siding wrote:
   The April 1995 issue of Trains Magazine has a little blurb about an order of roadrailers sold to a German company.  The contract was for 150 trailers and 78 removeable rail bogie wheelsets.  They were said to be testing in Scandanavia, and would be run by a Bavarian firm over state owned railways in Germany, Austria and Italy.  Did anything ever become of this experiment?


The company probably died from massive brain hemoraging, due to beating their heads against the wall trying to get the roadrailer system approved in three countries in their lifetime. Seriously 1995 was much too early to try something like that. Open Access had just started in Germany but not in Austria or Italy. Trying to get the DB, OeBB, and FS to use the system in cooperation would have been a waste of time.
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Posted by beaulieu on Friday, August 25, 2006 11:39 PM
 futuremodal wrote:

That's kind of the point I'm trying to make.  Europe has a long running experience with single axle bogies.  Because of this familiarity, the European railroads will probably be more accepting of new railcar designs that incorporate single axle concepts than the US railroads have.



And yet Dave, all recent orders that I have seen have been for 4-axle freight cars.

Take a look at this Hbbillns, a quite new Aluminum bodied sliding-wall van (boxcar), look at the dismal load capacity, fine if you have a very light load, not very good for something heavier, like bagged cement. The load limit is in metric tonnes equivilent to about 1.1 US Short tons.(Maximales Ladegewicht)

SBB Cargo Hbbillns graphic

For comparison look at the equivilent 4-axle car a "Habbillns"
note the extra lower case "a" in the designation.

SBB Cargo Habbillns graphic
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Posted by beaulieu on Friday, August 25, 2006 11:43 PM
 marcimmeker wrote:

 beaulieu wrote:
 martin.knoepfel wrote:
Rail4Chem is focused on chemicals. Other OA-carriers as well as the state-owned companies haul a large degree of differtent goods.


Martin, Rail4Chem certainly hauls a lot of chemicals, its biggest stockholder is BASF, but they are also the third largest contractor for Hupac, ahead of Trenitalia, TX Logistics, and Dillen & LeJeune Cargo. So they are big in Intermodal too.

I see them regularly hauling a grain train in front of my house on the Rotterdam Central to Dordrecht line. So it probably comes from northern or eastern Germany / Europe and goes to a terminal in Rotterdam harbor.

Power is a class 66 and more and more they use there own hoppers (green).

greetings,

Marc Immeker



Marc, in my previous post I was wrong about where the grain is originating, it is coming out of Austria, and the Rail4Chem partner there, LTE. Not from Viamont in the Czech Republic.
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Posted by martin.knoepfel on Saturday, August 26, 2006 4:39 PM
The governments of the Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland and Italy have agreed to equip the Rotterdam-Genoa-corridor with European Train Control Systems (ETCS) Level II til 2012. At least, for engines running on this corridor, the expensive different train-control-systems will be redundant. Of course, you never know wehether some politcal interference or lack of money compromise a good plan. At least, ETCS seems to work know. First trials in Switzerland had disastrous results.

On the new mainline from Olten zu Berne in the "flatlands" (Mittelland) of Switzerland, Swiss Federal Railways installed conventional signals and ETCS Level II. In the evening, they change from conventional to ETCS. Late in 2006 or in 2007, they want to migrate completely to ETCS. The problem is, only ETCS will  make 125 mph-running possible with trains following each other within 2 minutes. Which in turn is necessary to keep the hub-and-spoke-system of Bahn 2000 (rail 2000) working on the long run.
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Posted by beaulieu on Saturday, August 26, 2006 9:54 PM
Martin, did you manage to go to Rorschach, on Saturday, for the St. Gallenlinie 150 year jubilee? From the pictures posted it looks like they had a nice display of both old and new locomotives and coaches.
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 26, 2006 10:16 PM
 beaulieu wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:

That's kind of the point I'm trying to make.  Europe has a long running experience with single axle bogies.  Because of this familiarity, the European railroads will probably be more accepting of new railcar designs that incorporate single axle concepts than the US railroads have.



And yet Dave, all recent orders that I have seen have been for 4-axle freight cars.

Take a look at this Hbbillns, a quite new Aluminum bodied sliding-wall van (boxcar), look at the dismal load capacity, fine if you have a very light load, not very good for something heavier, like bagged cement. The load limit is in metric tonnes equivilent to about 1.1 US Short tons.(Maximales Ladegewicht)

SBB Cargo Hbbillns graphic

For comparison look at the equivilent 4-axle car a "Habbillns"
note the extra lower case "a" in the designation.

SBB Cargo Habbillns graphic

John,

It's a bit disingenuous to suggest that single axle bogies would be used in such an antiquated manner, and no one is suggesting that four wheel stand alone cars will be making a grand comeback anytime soon.  Rather, the use of single axle bogies could be seen in multiple platform articulated sets where the load bearing weight is spread over the length of such cars. 

It is theorectically possible that a TTOX/Four Runner-type car could also make an appearance for hauling single containers, since the load limit combined with a desire for minimizing tare makes it a perfect fit in Europe.  There probably won't be a TTOX clone for hauling single lorries, since that would require raising clearances over at least the core of the European system, and that seems a long way off if ever.

The point is, European railroads have a long running familiarity with single axle bogies, so if say a knock-off of the Southern 100 or the Four Runner makes an appearance, it'll probably have a longer stay than such car types had in the US. 

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Posted by martin.knoepfel on Sunday, August 27, 2006 3:58 PM
@beaulieu

Unfortunately, I was not able to go to Rorschach, because I had to work this weekend.

Where did you see the pictures? I didn't find any on the web.
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Posted by beaulieu on Sunday, August 27, 2006 9:31 PM
 martin.knoepfel wrote:
@beaulieu

Unfortunately, I was not able to go to Rorschach, because I had to work this weekend.

Where did you see the pictures? I didn't find any on the web.



Drehschiebe-Online, Sichtung Forum (Sightings)

Here's a direct link 

Rorschach Jubilee


Looks like the Works at Olten also had their Open Day on Saturday.

Pictures in the same forum

Olten Open Day pictures

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Posted by M636C on Monday, August 28, 2006 3:31 AM
 futuremodal wrote:
 beaulieu wrote:
 futuremodal wrote:

That's kind of the point I'm trying to make.  Europe has a long running experience with single axle bogies.  Because of this familiarity, the European railroads will probably be more accepting of new railcar designs that incorporate single axle concepts than the US railroads have.



And yet Dave, all recent orders that I have seen have been for 4-axle freight cars.

Take a look at this Hbbillns, a quite new Aluminum bodied sliding-wall van (boxcar), look at the dismal load capacity, fine if you have a very light load, not very good for something heavier, like bagged cement. The load limit is in metric tonnes equivilent to about 1.1 US Short tons.(Maximales Ladegewicht)

SBB Cargo Hbbillns graphic

For comparison look at the equivilent 4-axle car a "Habbillns"
note the extra lower case "a" in the designation.

SBB Cargo Habbillns graphic

John,

It's a bit disingenuous to suggest that single axle bogies would be used in such an antiquated manner, and no one is suggesting that four wheel stand alone cars will be making a grand comeback anytime soon.  Rather, the use of single axle bogies could be seen in multiple platform articulated sets where the load bearing weight is spread over the length of such cars. 

It is theorectically possible that a TTOX/Four Runner-type car could also make an appearance for hauling single containers, since the load limit combined with a desire for minimizing tare makes it a perfect fit in Europe.  There probably won't be a TTOX clone for hauling single lorries, since that would require raising clearances over at least the core of the European system, and that seems a long way off if ever.

The point is, European railroads have a long running familiarity with single axle bogies, so if say a knock-off of the Southern 100 or the Four Runner makes an appearance, it'll probably have a longer stay than such car types had in the US. 

The TTX Four Runner Cars used two different designsof suspension, one of which was a licenced copy of the British Rail "Taperlite" design which used two very long variable thickness leaf springs per axle box. So by definition, this version was in use in Europe before it was tried in the USA. British four wheel wagons have used the alternative US design used on the other Four Runners for years before they were used in the USA. There have been four wheel container wagons in Britain long before shipping containers arrived and similarly in Germany. They never went away, if that is consistent with a long stay.

M636C

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 28, 2006 6:23 AM

"One of the more stupid things our government and parliament did was authorizing just to the border and not making sure that there was a treaty with Germany. "

This is quite frequent german practice, the same has happened with the east belgian HS line, which will end up in a few kilometers with heavy speed restriction before mandatory stop in Aachen for all Thalys and ICEs. The same will happen east of Strasbourg when the TGV Est will be running next year: Nothing much is done on the german side, and in any case too late as these international projects obviously have the lowest priority in german planning. This is not really new. Thirty years ago you would travel Paris-Forbach at 120 kmh average speed on your TEE, and only reach less than 80kmh on the way to Frankfurt beyond the german border.  

"The biggest, I think, was electrifying at 25 kv AC. Yes, all modern schemes are at that but the Germans, Swiss and Austrians (and Sweden but not, repeat, not Denmark (also 25 kv AC and a tunnel connection to Malmo from Kopenhagen I think) run at 15kv 16 2/3 hz..."

Well, 16 2/3 is substantially more expensive, as this frequency is not compatible with the countries' "industry" standard of 50hz (60 in the US). Which implies a completely segregated power and distribution infrastructure, and a huge investment. As well as heavier engines, due among others to heavier transformers. In fact Norway has seriously considered switching from 16 2/3 to 50Hz for their Stavanger line.

Don't forget, 16 2/3 was only born out of the lower-frequency requirements of the 1920s' engine technology (direct AC engines), and was not justified any longer when technology moved towards rectifiers (later converters) feeding DC engines (later 3-phase synchronous or asynchronous), which was around 1965.

Resitsa.



 

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Posted by martin.knoepfel on Monday, August 28, 2006 3:09 PM
Hallo Marc,

I caught Sunday noon an Arriva-GTW in the station of Weinfelden. It was obviously on a trial-run. Unfortunately, today I missed the 8-axle-version.

Can anyone tell me how to post the picture?
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Posted by MStLfan on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 5:44 PM

Resitsa,

The new Betuweroute is a relatively short west - east line. It would have been more logical to use the German system. We in the Nehterlands can't expect Germany to change its system. Indeed, when the question arose which system to use it was viewed in a country wide review of the Dutch electrification system. Even for such a small country it is very expensive to change over to 25 kV AC.

Since the new high speed line from (Amsterdam-) Schiphol to the south connects with the Belgian and French high speed lines, naturally their 25 kV AC was chosen.

greetings,

Marc Immeker

For whom the Bell Tolls John Donne From Devotions upon Emergent Occasions (1623), XVII: Nunc Lento Sonitu Dicunt, Morieris - PERCHANCE he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.
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Posted by MStLfan on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 5:59 PM
 beaulieu wrote:
 marcimmeker wrote:

 beaulieu wrote:
 martin.knoepfel wrote:
Rail4Chem is focused on chemicals. Other OA-carriers as well as the state-owned companies haul a large degree of differtent goods.


Martin, Rail4Chem certainly hauls a lot of chemicals, its biggest stockholder is BASF, but they are also the third largest contractor for Hupac, ahead of Trenitalia, TX Logistics, and Dillen & LeJeune Cargo. So they are big in Intermodal too.

I see them regularly hauling a grain train in front of my house on the Rotterdam Central to Dordrecht line. So it probably comes from northern or eastern Germany / Europe and goes to a terminal in Rotterdam harbor.

Power is a class 66 and more and more they use there own hoppers (green).

greetings,

Marc Immeker



Marc, in my previous post I was wrong about where the grain is originating, it is coming out of Austria, and the Rail4Chem partner there, LTE. Not from Viamont in the Czech Republic.

The latest issue of the Dutch periodical Railmagazine has a news item about Rail4chem's grain traffic.

For the first half year they moved more than 250.000 tons to Rotterdam and in the busier second half they will move even more. The forecast is 600.000 tons, up from last year. The contrat is with a trader called Glencore. Last july ervery workday 2 trains arrived at Rotterdam Botlek, one combined trains from the Cech Republic and Slovakia and the other from Hungary. In the first 2 weeks of august 9 trains with soja left for Eastern Europe increasing the efficiency of the trains sets. Destination at Rotterdam Botlek is Maas Silo. Loading is next door at EBS Laurenshaven. Trains left within 48 hours.

Due to the increasing amount of grain moved, the variety of cars is growing too. Lots of Hungarian cars of the Tadgs and Tapgs were used as well as Italian (FS) brown Tadgs. Glencore seems to be happy with Rail4chem.

greetings,

Marc Immeker

 

For whom the Bell Tolls John Donne From Devotions upon Emergent Occasions (1623), XVII: Nunc Lento Sonitu Dicunt, Morieris - PERCHANCE he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.
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Posted by beaulieu on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:29 PM
Business is really booming for some European Railways in the first half of this year. Railion is scrambling desperately for locomotives, they are putting back into service retired Class 140, 151, 155 locomotives, and leasing anything they can get their hands on. Here are some figures.

    Name              Tonne-kilometers (in Millions) Change
  1. Railion               48,030                       +19.3 percent
  2. SNCF Fret             20,907                       -1.5
  3. PKP Cargo             20,251                       -3.1
  4. Trenitalia            10,660                       +6.2
  5. Rail Cargo Austria     8,997                       +2.1
  6. CD Cargo               7,675                       +10.4
  7. SBB Cargo              6,026                       +27.9
  8. FOC (UK)               5,700                       +8.0
  9. RENFE                  5,689                       +3.3
  10. VR Cargo               5,499                       +14.9
  11. ZSSK Cargo             4,722                       -1.7
  12. MAV                    4,299                       +11.1
  13. B-Cargo                4,263                       +12.0

  Green Cargo hasn't reported their first half results yet.
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Posted by beaulieu on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:31 AM
 Resitsa wrote:
<snipped>

 

"The biggest, I think, was electrifying at 25 kv AC. Yes, all modern schemes are at that but the Germans, Swiss and Austrians (and Sweden but not, repeat, not Denmark (also 25 kv AC and a tunnel connection to Malmo from Kopenhagen I think) run at 15kv 16 2/3 hz..."

Well, 16 2/3 is substantially more expensive, as this frequency is not compatible with the countries' "industry" standard of 50hz (60 in the US). Which implies a completely segregated power and distribution infrastructure, and a huge investment. As well as heavier engines, due among others to heavier transformers. In fact Norway has seriously considered switching from 16 2/3 to 50Hz for their Stavanger line.

Don't forget, 16 2/3 was only born out of the lower-frequency requirements of the 1920s' engine technology (direct AC engines), and was not justified any longer when technology moved towards rectifiers (later converters) feeding DC engines (later 3-phase synchronous or asynchronous), which was around 1965.

Resitsa.

The same advances in technology that make 3-phase asynchronous traction motors possible also means that simple frequency convertors are affordable for each substation eliminating the requirement for a separate distribution network. So 16.7Hz is more expensive, but not greatly so. The Oresund Link is combination bridge and tunnel with most of the distance electrified at 25Kv/50Hz.

Regarding the Dutch Betuwe Line, once the Dutch Government agreed to eliminate the two 1.5Kv DC sections, the 25Kv/50Hz. isn't a big deal vitually all potential Electric Locomotives likely to use the line can run equally well off either 15KV/16.7Hz. or 25Kv/50Hz.


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Posted by TH&B on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:01 PM

The problem with the 25Kv 50Hz Oresund Link is that at both ends, Sweden and Germany have both 15Kv 17.7Hz ! Well that means a loco change at both ends, not good railroading. Of course there are some dual voltage newer locos but they are expensive and preclude the use of any other older but potentialy usefull locos.

As a rail fan I miss out on the idea of seeing German and Swedish locos together and in Denmark !! The class 103's did make it to Padborg the border town in Denmark because Germany electrified to Padborg from Hamburg  with 15KV 16.7Hz to reach Denmarks new wire.

The 103 types could realy haul xss going up the newly electrified line from Hamburg with a long train compared to the diesel trains, but once they changed to a Danish loco and continued to Fredericia the train went snails pace hauled by the Mz (an SD40 in European disguise) no acceleration at all and I felt I could have walked faster backwards. I wondered why they would use a diesel anyways when they have 25K/50Hz ?! 

It should all have been 15Kv 16.7Hz all the way .

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Posted by Hugh Jampton on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:31 PM
All of this is the result of the EU and their interoperability directives, which go on at some length about how track that is part of the core European railway network have to be constructed to certain standards (25kV is just one of them). Please don't blame the countries, it's not their fault, but they're the ones left with the problems of having bits of what at the moment are seemingly odd stretches of track in the middle of a perfectly good network.

Eventually there'll be a fully interoperable railway network stretching all across Europe ,<waves Europen flag patriotically>. Pity none of us will ever live to see it though.
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Posted by TH&B on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:02 PM

Well I'm not neccesarily blaming Denmark, or some other country, it is just that the Oresund Link goes right through Denmark. It might not even be the railroads fault if it is laws from outside. But if these interoperable directives are EU then it is still the country's fault for voting to be part of EU. Of course Denmark did vote out but they couldn't get out , and it would have been too late because they were already building the 25Kv system.

I also think there will be too many changes to ever reach total interoperatabilty. There will always be too many changes / improvements. Right now there are more coupler sysems then there had ever been in the past, and although there has always been many signal systems all over Europe, now more then ever are the signal systems noncompatible. And the future will have maglev trains.

On the flip side perhaps the US railroads are too interoperable so improvements in brakes and couplers is limited.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: NW Wisconsin
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Posted by beaulieu on Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:21 PM
Sheesh, such negativety. First the Danes decided to electrify way back in 1979 with 25Kv/50Hz long before the EU decreed any sort of standard. Back then Germany had not given any indication that they would electrify to Padborg. Back then even the Great Belt bridge wasn't approved. Second ETCS is the standard and should rapidly now become the system of choice for new installations, lower cost due to a larger number of suppliers and standardized equipment. As to running through German or Swedish power, yes the Rc series locomotives cannot operate in Denmark, and no German Br 103s never will either but new generations of locomotives will. Older German freight power such as the Br 140, 151, and 155 only have a future while the economy is booming, once the builders catch up they will be stored pending scrapping. I would expect that it won't be long before Green Cargo starts looking for new power the Rc6s are getting old too.

BTW the class MZ are really European SD45s not SD40s they have the V20 engine.
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Posted by TH&B on Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:20 AM

Some Mz's had 16 cylinder engines like the SD40.

The original plans for electrification in Denmark was more of a Danish regional network idea. Alot of branch lines were to be electrified. But after starting to string wires up they realised it was going to be expensive and then they came out with new diesel intercity MU trains (IC3) wich seemed to defete the whole purpose of electrification. It seemed like they almost regretted electrification, but then came the bridges and the electrifiction became the international through route. Like you said there wasn't even going to be a conection to Germany at first.

To this day there still isn't many through passenger trains on this route.

Now they want to sell off the Ea electrics and some are only 14 years old, they are not great freight haulers and they were expensive engines when new.

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