Bad train pictures

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

there is no policy to allow employees of the same road to be able to ride. if they are not called to ride my train in service they dont ride. even officials who are just wanting to get some where if they aint from my territory they dont ride. this is NS rule. but depending on who it is i break it.

awww wabash, See you are a nice guy!

I think i've broken every single rule in the book at least 100 times, you wanna ride in the locomotive? SURE!

let's see... Children under 18 can;t ride up front in the contol cab.. oops! .... No one except a Qualified person can ride in the locomotive... oops.. (Wait My grilfriend is Qualified.. at her place of work!) ....

Ya see?

Thsoe rules... I didn't make 'em, I just break 'em!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

there is no policy to allow employees of the same road to be able to ride. if they are not called to ride my train in service they dont ride. even officials who are just wanting to get some where if they aint from my territory they dont ride. this is NS rule. but depending on who it is i break it.

awww wabash, See you are a nice guy!

I think i've broken every single rule in the book at least 100 times, you wanna ride in the locomotive? SURE!

let's see... Children under 18 can;t ride up front in the contol cab.. oops! .... No one except a Qualified person can ride in the locomotive... oops.. (Wait My grilfriend is Qualified.. at her place of work!) ....

Ya see?

Thsoe rules... I didn't make 'em, I just break 'em!

[Nora]

A few new stupid questions:

So, if you don't need a key to start an engine, how do they prevent them from being stolen? I've occasionally seen a work train parked overnight , not in any yard, just in an out-of-the-way place. The only thing I can see that would stop it from being taken is a red thingie (maybe a derailer?) that covers one rail some distance in front of the engine. Hopefully there are few people around who'd be stupid enough to attempt to take a train, but in my experience there's always someone stupid enough to try almost any stupid thing, sooner or later. (Please note that I have no intention of taking the train or even going near it. [:0])

And why wouldn't they just keep these trains in the yard overnight anyway? It's only a few miles from where I've seen them and the yard is huge. The trains are usually pretty short.

I have also wondered how far a train crew (going out somewhere, not just working in a yard) is likely to get in a day -- do you end up just a few hours from home or several hundred miles away? I guess it probably varies but what's about the average? What's the furthest it's possible to go?

Finally, I get that the GCOR is basically a book of rules...can anyone (read: me) get one, and where, or are they closely guarded secrets? [?]

--Nora

[Nora]

A few new stupid questions:

So, if you don't need a key to start an engine, how do they prevent them from being stolen? I've occasionally seen a work train parked overnight , not in any yard, just in an out-of-the-way place. The only thing I can see that would stop it from being taken is a red thingie (maybe a derailer?) that covers one rail some distance in front of the engine. Hopefully there are few people around who'd be stupid enough to attempt to take a train, but in my experience there's always someone stupid enough to try almost any stupid thing, sooner or later. (Please note that I have no intention of taking the train or even going near it. [:0])

And why wouldn't they just keep these trains in the yard overnight anyway? It's only a few miles from where I've seen them and the yard is huge. The trains are usually pretty short.

I have also wondered how far a train crew (going out somewhere, not just working in a yard) is likely to get in a day -- do you end up just a few hours from home or several hundred miles away? I guess it probably varies but what's about the average? What's the furthest it's possible to go?

Finally, I get that the GCOR is basically a book of rules...can anyone (read: me) get one, and where, or are they closely guarded secrets? [?]

--Nora

[CShaveRR]

Well, Nora, the procedure for starting and moving a locomotive is complicated enough that not just anybody will know or remember all of the steps needed to do it. There have been instances (I can't remember the specifics) of railfans taking locomotives for a joyride, but I think they've usually been caught.

Road crews go to the other end of their territory. Commonly, in the old days, crews changed every 100 miles or so (longer for passenger trains). Nowadays, a crew can take a train 200-300 miles, and they get paid well for doing it. Keep in mind that the crew has to be familiar with all aspects of the territory over which it's operating. Also, we're limited by law to be on duty no more than twelve hours. I guess the thing you're interested in is, yes, road crews know where they are expected to end up at the end of their tour of duty...and they probably will end up there, one way or another (if they've worked twelve hours, they'll be relieved, but then probably cabbed to that point). I'm sure someone who regularly works on the road will have a more coherent and credible response to this question.

As to the GCOR, I think you can get a copy on the Web...right, Mook? This rulebook, however, is not used by the railroads in your area, though most of the rules will probably be pretty much the same.

[CShaveRR]

Well, Nora, the procedure for starting and moving a locomotive is complicated enough that not just anybody will know or remember all of the steps needed to do it. There have been instances (I can't remember the specifics) of railfans taking locomotives for a joyride, but I think they've usually been caught.

Road crews go to the other end of their territory. Commonly, in the old days, crews changed every 100 miles or so (longer for passenger trains). Nowadays, a crew can take a train 200-300 miles, and they get paid well for doing it. Keep in mind that the crew has to be familiar with all aspects of the territory over which it's operating. Also, we're limited by law to be on duty no more than twelve hours. I guess the thing you're interested in is, yes, road crews know where they are expected to end up at the end of their tour of duty...and they probably will end up there, one way or another (if they've worked twelve hours, they'll be relieved, but then probably cabbed to that point). I'm sure someone who regularly works on the road will have a more coherent and credible response to this question.

As to the GCOR, I think you can get a copy on the Web...right, Mook? This rulebook, however, is not used by the railroads in your area, though most of the rules will probably be pretty much the same.

[wabash1]

Kevin you mean i give the impression i am not a nice guy.... that is nice. there is not to many of them rules i aint broke either. I wont go into spacifics right now. but i have a few basic that i brake regularly. its like braking the law if you dont get caught you didnt do it.

nora

In starting a train its not hard and i will walk you thru step by step how i do it.
fisrt you get on the engine put your stuff down and then you open up the control cabinit and close all the breakers and knife switch. then you go out to the engine room and prime the engine. then you fo back inside and make sure the control stand switches are corectly positioned ( something you should have done before you went to prime the engine that you forget to do every time) then go back out to prime the engine ( a good prime is fine) then you turn the switch to start ( if it is a GE engine this may take 10 sec before it even starts to crank they are like a woman you got to get them stimulated before they decide to start a EMD will crank right away) if it is a computorized engine you wont have a lay shaft if it has a lay shaft push it in while cranking. after engine starts go back inside and wait for the air to come up. when everything is ready with the engine help the conductor find his way to the cab. ( not all conductors need this some engines come with conductors. from previos trip) thats all there is to it.

[wabash1]

Kevin you mean i give the impression i am not a nice guy.... that is nice. there is not to many of them rules i aint broke either. I wont go into spacifics right now. but i have a few basic that i brake regularly. its like braking the law if you dont get caught you didnt do it.

nora

In starting a train its not hard and i will walk you thru step by step how i do it.
fisrt you get on the engine put your stuff down and then you open up the control cabinit and close all the breakers and knife switch. then you go out to the engine room and prime the engine. then you fo back inside and make sure the control stand switches are corectly positioned ( something you should have done before you went to prime the engine that you forget to do every time) then go back out to prime the engine ( a good prime is fine) then you turn the switch to start ( if it is a GE engine this may take 10 sec before it even starts to crank they are like a woman you got to get them stimulated before they decide to start a EMD will crank right away) if it is a computorized engine you wont have a lay shaft if it has a lay shaft push it in while cranking. after engine starts go back inside and wait for the air to come up. when everything is ready with the engine help the conductor find his way to the cab. ( not all conductors need this some engines come with conductors. from previos trip) thats all there is to it.

[dehusman]

1. Starting an engine. While its not hard, it involves a little more than just turning a key. Then once you get it started you have to know how to release the brakes, then how to get it going. Most engineers will remove or hide the reverser handle, which is sorta like a key for the locomotive, especially if its going to be unattended.

2. Why they leave a work train on line. Because even though it might only be 10 miles out of town, getting through the yard and out those 10 miles can cost a couple hours of production. So they leave the train where it is.

3. Some roads put the GCOR on net. Some have it in a public place, some have it in an employee only site. Just like any other publication they are copyrighted. Each railroad adds their own unique rules to it and may add additional diagrams or other material. Its not that its a secret, its that one company doesn't want to spend big bucks developing a rule book so another company can come along and copy it for free.
Try www.transalert.com. They may sell copies of rule books. I know they sell all sort of other training materials.

Dave H.

[dehusman]

1. Starting an engine. While its not hard, it involves a little more than just turning a key. Then once you get it started you have to know how to release the brakes, then how to get it going. Most engineers will remove or hide the reverser handle, which is sorta like a key for the locomotive, especially if its going to be unattended.

2. Why they leave a work train on line. Because even though it might only be 10 miles out of town, getting through the yard and out those 10 miles can cost a couple hours of production. So they leave the train where it is.

3. Some roads put the GCOR on net. Some have it in a public place, some have it in an employee only site. Just like any other publication they are copyrighted. Each railroad adds their own unique rules to it and may add additional diagrams or other material. Its not that its a secret, its that one company doesn't want to spend big bucks developing a rule book so another company can come along and copy it for free.
Try www.transalert.com. They may sell copies of rule books. I know they sell all sort of other training materials.

Dave H.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR


As to the GCOR, I think you can get a copy on the Web...right, Mook? This rulebook, however, is not used by the railroads in your area, though most of the rules will probably be pretty much the same.

I got mine from a very dear friend who now lives in Ks.....

Mookie

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR


As to the GCOR, I think you can get a copy on the Web...right, Mook? This rulebook, however, is not used by the railroads in your area, though most of the rules will probably be pretty much the same.

I got mine from a very dear friend who now lives in Ks.....

Mookie

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

Kevin you mean i give the impression i am not a nice guy.... that is nice. there is not to many of them rules i aint broke either. I wont go into spacifics right now. but i have a few basic that i brake regularly. its like braking the law if you dont get caught you didnt do it.

nora

In starting a train its not hard and i will walk you thru step by step how i do it.
fisrt you get on the engine put your stuff down and then you open up the control cabinit and close all the breakers and knife switch. then you go out to the engine room and prime the engine. then you fo back inside and make sure the control stand switches are corectly positioned ( something you should have done before you went to prime the engine that you forget to do every time) then go back out to prime the engine ( a good prime is fine) then you turn the switch to start ( if it is a GE engine this may take 10 sec before it even starts to crank they are like a woman you got to get them stimulated before they decide to start a EMD will crank right away) if it is a computorized engine you wont have a lay shaft if it has a lay shaft push it in while cranking. after engine starts go back inside and wait for the air to come up. when everything is ready with the engine help the conductor find his way to the cab. ( not all conductors need this some engines come with conductors. from previos trip) thats all there is to it.

Wabash - I think you are very nice - especially to Ladies in Learning, small kids and lost dogs/cats!

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

Kevin you mean i give the impression i am not a nice guy.... that is nice. there is not to many of them rules i aint broke either. I wont go into spacifics right now. but i have a few basic that i brake regularly. its like braking the law if you dont get caught you didnt do it.

nora

In starting a train its not hard and i will walk you thru step by step how i do it.
fisrt you get on the engine put your stuff down and then you open up the control cabinit and close all the breakers and knife switch. then you go out to the engine room and prime the engine. then you fo back inside and make sure the control stand switches are corectly positioned ( something you should have done before you went to prime the engine that you forget to do every time) then go back out to prime the engine ( a good prime is fine) then you turn the switch to start ( if it is a GE engine this may take 10 sec before it even starts to crank they are like a woman you got to get them stimulated before they decide to start a EMD will crank right away) if it is a computorized engine you wont have a lay shaft if it has a lay shaft push it in while cranking. after engine starts go back inside and wait for the air to come up. when everything is ready with the engine help the conductor find his way to the cab. ( not all conductors need this some engines come with conductors. from previos trip) thats all there is to it.

Wabash - I think you are very nice - especially to Ladies in Learning, small kids and lost dogs/cats!

[bbrant]

Have a question that I believe falls into this category. On a freight train, what's the difference between the brakeman and conductor?

I was under the impression that if there was a mechanical problem that needed to be inspected, the brakeman was the one who walked along until the problem was found or if a switch needs thrown, they were the one to do it.

If that's the case then what is the role of the conductor and what other responsibilities does the brakeman have?

Thanks,
Brian

[bbrant]

Have a question that I believe falls into this category. On a freight train, what's the difference between the brakeman and conductor?

I was under the impression that if there was a mechanical problem that needed to be inspected, the brakeman was the one who walked along until the problem was found or if a switch needs thrown, they were the one to do it.

If that's the case then what is the role of the conductor and what other responsibilities does the brakeman have?

Thanks,
Brian

[dehusman]

A brakeman and a conductor are the same craft, so basically do the same thing. The difference is the conductor is in charge of the train (the captain, so to speak). The engineer is second in command and the brakemen report to the conductor and the fireman reports to the engineer.

Dave H.

[dehusman]

A brakeman and a conductor are the same craft, so basically do the same thing. The difference is the conductor is in charge of the train (the captain, so to speak). The engineer is second in command and the brakemen report to the conductor and the fireman reports to the engineer.

Dave H.

[Nora]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

In starting a train its not hard and i will walk you thru step by step how i do it.
fisrt you get on the engine put your stuff down and then you open up the control cabinit and close all the breakers and knife switch. then you go out to the engine room and prime the engine. then you fo back inside and make sure the control stand switches are corectly positioned ( something you should have done before you went to prime the engine that you forget to do every time) then go back out to prime the engine ( a good prime is fine) then you turn the switch to start ( if it is a GE engine this may take 10 sec before it even starts to crank they are like a woman you got to get them stimulated before they decide to start a EMD will crank right away) if it is a computorized engine you wont have a lay shaft if it has a lay shaft push it in while cranking. after engine starts go back inside and wait for the air to come up. when everything is ready with the engine help the conductor find his way to the cab. ( not all conductors need this some engines come with conductors. from previos trip) thats all there is to it.

I think I see your point -- you'd have to know what you were doing in order to get the thing going anyway. Because this doesn't make much more sense to me now than it did when Mookie asked the question about how to start an engine a few months ago. [:I]

--Nora

[Nora]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

In starting a train its not hard and i will walk you thru step by step how i do it.
fisrt you get on the engine put your stuff down and then you open up the control cabinit and close all the breakers and knife switch. then you go out to the engine room and prime the engine. then you fo back inside and make sure the control stand switches are corectly positioned ( something you should have done before you went to prime the engine that you forget to do every time) then go back out to prime the engine ( a good prime is fine) then you turn the switch to start ( if it is a GE engine this may take 10 sec before it even starts to crank they are like a woman you got to get them stimulated before they decide to start a EMD will crank right away) if it is a computorized engine you wont have a lay shaft if it has a lay shaft push it in while cranking. after engine starts go back inside and wait for the air to come up. when everything is ready with the engine help the conductor find his way to the cab. ( not all conductors need this some engines come with conductors. from previos trip) thats all there is to it.

I think I see your point -- you'd have to know what you were doing in order to get the thing going anyway. Because this doesn't make much more sense to me now than it did when Mookie asked the question about how to start an engine a few months ago. [:I]

--Nora

[Nora]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

Nowadays, a crew can take a train 200-300 miles, and they get paid well for doing it.

Wow, that doesn't seem terribly far! How's this then -- in an average 12 hours, how much time would be spent getting a train ready to go, actually going somewhere, and just sitting waiting?

--Nora

[Nora]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

Nowadays, a crew can take a train 200-300 miles, and they get paid well for doing it.

Wow, that doesn't seem terribly far! How's this then -- in an average 12 hours, how much time would be spent getting a train ready to go, actually going somewhere, and just sitting waiting?

--Nora

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Nora

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

In starting a train its not hard and i will walk you thru step by step how i do it.
fisrt you get on the engine put your stuff down and then you open up the control cabinit and close all the breakers and knife switch. then you go out to the engine room and prime the engine. then you fo back inside and make sure the control stand switches are corectly positioned ( something you should have done before you went to prime the engine that you forget to do every time) then go back out to prime the engine ( a good prime is fine) then you turn the switch to start ( if it is a GE engine this may take 10 sec before it even starts to crank they are like a woman you got to get them stimulated before they decide to start a EMD will crank right away) if it is a computorized engine you wont have a lay shaft if it has a lay shaft push it in while cranking. after engine starts go back inside and wait for the air to come up. when everything is ready with the engine help the conductor find his way to the cab. ( not all conductors need this some engines come with conductors. from previos trip) thats all there is to it.

I think I see your point -- you'd have to know what you were doing in order to get the thing going anyway. Because this doesn't make much more sense to me now than it did when Mookie asked the question about how to start an engine a few months ago. [:I]

--Nora

Well Nora, wouldn't you just know that a man designed these things! If they would have a woman do it, the steps would be much lower, it would have a good, sturdy key, recliners and magnets for the refrigerators, to put school papers up. Also, the potty would be sanitized and with a little wallpaper - flowered.

This is just way to complicated - if a woman can drive an SUV the size of a tank, why not simplify the engines! [tup]

Mookie

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Nora

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

In starting a train its not hard and i will walk you thru step by step how i do it.
fisrt you get on the engine put your stuff down and then you open up the control cabinit and close all the breakers and knife switch. then you go out to the engine room and prime the engine. then you fo back inside and make sure the control stand switches are corectly positioned ( something you should have done before you went to prime the engine that you forget to do every time) then go back out to prime the engine ( a good prime is fine) then you turn the switch to start ( if it is a GE engine this may take 10 sec before it even starts to crank they are like a woman you got to get them stimulated before they decide to start a EMD will crank right away) if it is a computorized engine you wont have a lay shaft if it has a lay shaft push it in while cranking. after engine starts go back inside and wait for the air to come up. when everything is ready with the engine help the conductor find his way to the cab. ( not all conductors need this some engines come with conductors. from previos trip) thats all there is to it.

I think I see your point -- you'd have to know what you were doing in order to get the thing going anyway. Because this doesn't make much more sense to me now than it did when Mookie asked the question about how to start an engine a few months ago. [:I]

--Nora

Well Nora, wouldn't you just know that a man designed these things! If they would have a woman do it, the steps would be much lower, it would have a good, sturdy key, recliners and magnets for the refrigerators, to put school papers up. Also, the potty would be sanitized and with a little wallpaper - flowered.

This is just way to complicated - if a woman can drive an SUV the size of a tank, why not simplify the engines! [tup]

Mookie

[zardoz]

Nora:
Regarding the distance travelled in 12 hours...
Much depends on the location. Where I used to go to work, it was at CNW's Proviso (Chicago) yard. Proviso was a yard where trains were initially made up.

IF the locomotives were ready on time, and IF the train was ready on time, and IF there were no conflicting moves preventing you from getting the locomotives attached to the front part of your train, and IF there were no conflicting moves preventing you from doubling or tripleing the train together, and IF there were no bad-order cars that needed to be set out, and IF, once the train was ready to go, there were no conflicting moves blocking the tracks out of the yard, with luck we could get out of the yard in under three hours; if not.....well, crews have died on their hours and never left the yard. Total miles run: 0.

Other locations the crews go on duty at a yard and simply get on an arriving train and the arriving crew gets off and the departing crew gets on and continues on it's way with minimal delay. Other locations might see an outbound crew set out and pick up cars at their initial terminal; that can take a few hours.

To get 300 miles in 12 hours requires an AVERAGE speed of 25mph! Considering that most people that travel by car average only about 50mph, you can see why trains "only" go 150-200 miles per crew.

[zardoz]

Nora:
Regarding the distance travelled in 12 hours...
Much depends on the location. Where I used to go to work, it was at CNW's Proviso (Chicago) yard. Proviso was a yard where trains were initially made up.

IF the locomotives were ready on time, and IF the train was ready on time, and IF there were no conflicting moves preventing you from getting the locomotives attached to the front part of your train, and IF there were no conflicting moves preventing you from doubling or tripleing the train together, and IF there were no bad-order cars that needed to be set out, and IF, once the train was ready to go, there were no conflicting moves blocking the tracks out of the yard, with luck we could get out of the yard in under three hours; if not.....well, crews have died on their hours and never left the yard. Total miles run: 0.

Other locations the crews go on duty at a yard and simply get on an arriving train and the arriving crew gets off and the departing crew gets on and continues on it's way with minimal delay. Other locations might see an outbound crew set out and pick up cars at their initial terminal; that can take a few hours.

To get 300 miles in 12 hours requires an AVERAGE speed of 25mph! Considering that most people that travel by car average only about 50mph, you can see why trains "only" go 150-200 miles per crew.

[techguy57]

To any Chicago railfans (Zardoz made me think of this)
I went Elmhurst to trainwatch westbounds out of the Proviso yard on Saturday. Unfortunately not a lot of action while I was there. But I was wondering if you might be able to answer a question for me. I sat in the park in Elmhurst just west of 290/294, also at the Metra Station at Berkeley, and had my girlfriend drive across the Mannheim Overpass a couple of times so I could watch the yard. I hope to go back with a friend and take some pics from the pedestrian part of the Mannheim overpass later on this month. Anyway here's my question: Is there anywhere else in the area I can, legally, go to get a good view of the yard.
I really don't want to be a nuissance, but I find yard work kinda fascinating. It just seems there are very few places where they can be easily viewed.
Thanks for the help.

Mike

[techguy57]

To any Chicago railfans (Zardoz made me think of this)
I went Elmhurst to trainwatch westbounds out of the Proviso yard on Saturday. Unfortunately not a lot of action while I was there. But I was wondering if you might be able to answer a question for me. I sat in the park in Elmhurst just west of 290/294, also at the Metra Station at Berkeley, and had my girlfriend drive across the Mannheim Overpass a couple of times so I could watch the yard. I hope to go back with a friend and take some pics from the pedestrian part of the Mannheim overpass later on this month. Anyway here's my question: Is there anywhere else in the area I can, legally, go to get a good view of the yard.
I really don't want to be a nuissance, but I find yard work kinda fascinating. It just seems there are very few places where they can be easily viewed.
Thanks for the help.

Mike

[northwesterner]

I am not sure if this meets your needs, but the UP switches out cars at the Chicago Tribune Printing plant at Chicago & Halsted frequently (on Thursdays for sure). What is fun about this location is that the tracks go underneath the actual intersection. So you can just lean over the guard rail while waiting for the #8 Halsted bus and the action is right in front of you.
Since the Sun-Times moved its printing plant to the suburbs, there is no action beyond the Trib. When the Sun-Times was still printing downtown, the local would cross the river just South of Kinzie (site of the Chicago River flood of '93), go UNDER the Merchadise Mart, the IBM building and several others to switch out cars by the Wrigley building. It was kind of creepy to see a big SD40-2 come out of the shadow of the Merchandise Mart pulling a string of newsprint cars.

[northwesterner]

I am not sure if this meets your needs, but the UP switches out cars at the Chicago Tribune Printing plant at Chicago & Halsted frequently (on Thursdays for sure). What is fun about this location is that the tracks go underneath the actual intersection. So you can just lean over the guard rail while waiting for the #8 Halsted bus and the action is right in front of you.
Since the Sun-Times moved its printing plant to the suburbs, there is no action beyond the Trib. When the Sun-Times was still printing downtown, the local would cross the river just South of Kinzie (site of the Chicago River flood of '93), go UNDER the Merchadise Mart, the IBM building and several others to switch out cars by the Wrigley building. It was kind of creepy to see a big SD40-2 come out of the shadow of the Merchandise Mart pulling a string of newsprint cars.