Bad train pictures

[zardoz]

Kevin-
Your diagram was very nicely done. It was an excellent depiction of how the markers work.

When I was running Suburban trains for the CNW, we did not have the luxury of such markers.
We used 'field' markers, such as:
at station X, to use three cars of a five car train, stop next to the tree by the blue garage with a F7, just past the tree with a F40, and by the next bush past the tree with an E8;
to use one car of seven, stop by the telephone pole just past the small bush by the driveway of the red house; etc,etc.

What made it interesting (read frustrating) was that not only did we use many different combinbations of coaches carried/coaches used, but we also had three different size locos (E8, F7, F40), each with a different length from the rear of the unit to where the engineer sat. In addition, all of our platforms were on the 'fireman' side of the train, so we could not even eyeball the station. Also, some of the spots were very difficult to see in bad weather, darkness, snow cover, etc.

Plus, every once and a while, someone would modify their property such that our spot would be gone: chugging along looking for the tall tree to set the brakes, all of the sudden (OOPS!) realizing that the station is too close (where did the tree go?), then having to stop using an emergency application. To hit a station from 70mph using only emergency was an ability that separated the "crackerjacks" from the "runners" (once one got over the embarrassment of having to resort to such tactics).

The conductors had their work cut out for them also. Usually only one traincrew person had the responsibility of opening the coach doors at the stations. If the engineer missed his mark by more than a few feet, usually one coach's doors would be off the platform. If the conductor just opened the doors without looking where he was, a coach door could open onto a ditch, fence, or some other extremely hazardous situation. The commuters, of course, would bolt from the train as soon as the doors opened, without bothering to look to see if there was someplace to actually land........


And of course, each train had different braking characteristics. A eight car train with a F40 would brake quite differently than a three-car train with an E8. So we also used rediculous things as markers as where to set the brakes for a station stop. Being as we had such tight schedules for the trains, each stop had to be made by going full speed until nearly the last moment, and then making a near-full service application, with only slight adjustments possible after the initial set. Fortunately we had "graduated release" brakes, and could do minor adjustments. But to repeatedly (30-90 times per day, depending on run) hit such small targets required a significant level of concentration; all this while zipping through heavily-populated suburbs at 70mph, with grade crossings every quarter mile. Whew!

[zardoz]

Kevin-
Your diagram was very nicely done. It was an excellent depiction of how the markers work.

When I was running Suburban trains for the CNW, we did not have the luxury of such markers.
We used 'field' markers, such as:
at station X, to use three cars of a five car train, stop next to the tree by the blue garage with a F7, just past the tree with a F40, and by the next bush past the tree with an E8;
to use one car of seven, stop by the telephone pole just past the small bush by the driveway of the red house; etc,etc.

What made it interesting (read frustrating) was that not only did we use many different combinbations of coaches carried/coaches used, but we also had three different size locos (E8, F7, F40), each with a different length from the rear of the unit to where the engineer sat. In addition, all of our platforms were on the 'fireman' side of the train, so we could not even eyeball the station. Also, some of the spots were very difficult to see in bad weather, darkness, snow cover, etc.

Plus, every once and a while, someone would modify their property such that our spot would be gone: chugging along looking for the tall tree to set the brakes, all of the sudden (OOPS!) realizing that the station is too close (where did the tree go?), then having to stop using an emergency application. To hit a station from 70mph using only emergency was an ability that separated the "crackerjacks" from the "runners" (once one got over the embarrassment of having to resort to such tactics).

The conductors had their work cut out for them also. Usually only one traincrew person had the responsibility of opening the coach doors at the stations. If the engineer missed his mark by more than a few feet, usually one coach's doors would be off the platform. If the conductor just opened the doors without looking where he was, a coach door could open onto a ditch, fence, or some other extremely hazardous situation. The commuters, of course, would bolt from the train as soon as the doors opened, without bothering to look to see if there was someplace to actually land........


And of course, each train had different braking characteristics. A eight car train with a F40 would brake quite differently than a three-car train with an E8. So we also used rediculous things as markers as where to set the brakes for a station stop. Being as we had such tight schedules for the trains, each stop had to be made by going full speed until nearly the last moment, and then making a near-full service application, with only slight adjustments possible after the initial set. Fortunately we had "graduated release" brakes, and could do minor adjustments. But to repeatedly (30-90 times per day, depending on run) hit such small targets required a significant level of concentration; all this while zipping through heavily-populated suburbs at 70mph, with grade crossings every quarter mile. Whew!

[Anonymous]

Reminds me of giving directions in the country. [:p]

Go three gravel roads up, turn at the red barn, just past where all the cows hang out. When you see the pit silo out in the field turn 3 chicken coops past that. After the 2 nd hog house head north, when you drive through the creek look for the large oak tree and turn west. After about a mile (as the crow flies) look for Farmer Brown's mailbox. (You can't see his house for the trees.) There that should get you there (about next month). lol [:D]

[Anonymous]

Reminds me of giving directions in the country. [:p]

Go three gravel roads up, turn at the red barn, just past where all the cows hang out. When you see the pit silo out in the field turn 3 chicken coops past that. After the 2 nd hog house head north, when you drive through the creek look for the large oak tree and turn west. After about a mile (as the crow flies) look for Farmer Brown's mailbox. (You can't see his house for the trees.) There that should get you there (about next month). lol [:D]

[michaelstevens]

[8D]
To answer Talbanese;

The "dummy markers", at least on Septa's Regional Rail station stops, are 3" square reflective white backgrounds with red numbers (e.g. 2, 4, 6 or 8). They are up on the canopy edge or framework. If there's no canopy, they'll be on the fence, light poles, catenary poles etc.

I'm pretty sure that LIRR uses something similar -- but blue on white, I think.

[:D] Mike in Philly.

[michaelstevens]

[8D]
To answer Talbanese;

The "dummy markers", at least on Septa's Regional Rail station stops, are 3" square reflective white backgrounds with red numbers (e.g. 2, 4, 6 or 8). They are up on the canopy edge or framework. If there's no canopy, they'll be on the fence, light poles, catenary poles etc.

I'm pretty sure that LIRR uses something similar -- but blue on white, I think.

[:D] Mike in Philly.

[CShaveRR]

Zardoz is on the money, as usual. I've heard the tales about overshooting the stop because the tree was cut down.

But to know how well these people usually do, just watch the platform during rush-hour. Passengers will congregate in certain spots, about a car-length apart. And when the train comes in, the doors stop right in front of them. Time after time after time...

[CShaveRR]

Zardoz is on the money, as usual. I've heard the tales about overshooting the stop because the tree was cut down.

But to know how well these people usually do, just watch the platform during rush-hour. Passengers will congregate in certain spots, about a car-length apart. And when the train comes in, the doors stop right in front of them. Time after time after time...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by michaelstevens

[8D]
To answer Talbanese;

The "dummy markers", at least on Septa's Regional Rail station stops, are 3" square reflective white backgrounds with red numbers (e.g. 2, 4, 6 or 8). They are up on the canopy edge or framework. If there's no canopy, they'll be on the fence, light poles, catenary poles etc.

I'm pretty sure that LIRR uses something similar -- but blue on white, I think.

[:D] Mike in Philly.

Mike,

Thanks I'll check out the Wilmington Train Station and see if I can find them.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by michaelstevens

[8D]
To answer Talbanese;

The "dummy markers", at least on Septa's Regional Rail station stops, are 3" square reflective white backgrounds with red numbers (e.g. 2, 4, 6 or 8). They are up on the canopy edge or framework. If there's no canopy, they'll be on the fence, light poles, catenary poles etc.

I'm pretty sure that LIRR uses something similar -- but blue on white, I think.

[:D] Mike in Philly.

Mike,

Thanks I'll check out the Wilmington Train Station and see if I can find them.

[techguy57]

Yeah, I know that METRA uses dummy markers as well (at least on the UP/NW line), but I believe they are labeled with letters rather than numbers. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Kevin- I agree. Nice diagram.

Mike

[techguy57]

Yeah, I know that METRA uses dummy markers as well (at least on the UP/NW line), but I believe they are labeled with letters rather than numbers. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Kevin- I agree. Nice diagram.

Mike

[techguy57]

While I'm at it I have a question too. I know that RRs uses solar panels for some switches, but I saw similar panels on top of a couple of MOW hoppers that were parked for few weeks on a siding. Are they being used in conjunction with the brakes? As usual I appreciate any you can give.

Mike

[techguy57]

While I'm at it I have a question too. I know that RRs uses solar panels for some switches, but I saw similar panels on top of a couple of MOW hoppers that were parked for few weeks on a siding. Are they being used in conjunction with the brakes? As usual I appreciate any you can give.

Mike

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

goodie goodie gum drops, one I can answer

See we have dummy markers
you got to be a real Dummy to miss these. When the Marker says 3, the Locomotive should stop at/ short about 1 meter of that sign, Meaning it has Three cars, and 1 locmotive.

if the sign Says 8, that usually means the first Car or 2 won't be on the platform. The written rule, is if the train is longer then the platform, always overshoot it the amont of extra cars, never stop short. Then the conductor of that train tells the passengers to get off using the END cars of the train. Platforms usuall can hold 6-7 cars comfortably, one only holds 3, a few hold eight...

So on that platform that only holds three, the locomotive has to go well beyond the actual platform so the last three cars can fit comfotably, the big sign that sais 8, 100-200 yards ahead of the station is where the train should be stopped.

most trains are 3-5 cars, so often no cars are left dangling off the platform.

hope thats clear, and knowing me, it's as clear as mud


*******6**********5*******4*******3*******|----------------------------------------------|*****************
=====|LOCO|==1===|==2===|===3==|===4===|===5===|===6===|=====================
=========================================================================

So the stars represent the grass,The numbers in the grass are the sign posts, the |--------| is the platform, ==== are the tracks, and the |===2===| are the cars.

help any?

what i was saying before, Car number 6 has to be at kleast at the end of the platform, it's not allowed to be off. car number 1 can be off, then 2 if necesary, then number 3 if necesary

hope that helps.

and in the drawing above, the conductor would stande between cars number 3 and 4, and only open the doors for number 4, 5 and 6

but one station beofre hand he'd tell the passenegrs to get ready, and to get off the back of the train.

Kevin the Mac Man [:p] [8D] [;)]

You should give classes on how to make diagrams in the forum threads. I have tried but can't seem to ever get them to be what I want them to look like. Wow, you must have spent some time doing it. Very good job. [:D]

I guess you can come out of the corner for a while. (But be good, you know I am watching.) [}:)] [:0] [:o)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

goodie goodie gum drops, one I can answer

See we have dummy markers
you got to be a real Dummy to miss these. When the Marker says 3, the Locomotive should stop at/ short about 1 meter of that sign, Meaning it has Three cars, and 1 locmotive.

if the sign Says 8, that usually means the first Car or 2 won't be on the platform. The written rule, is if the train is longer then the platform, always overshoot it the amont of extra cars, never stop short. Then the conductor of that train tells the passengers to get off using the END cars of the train. Platforms usuall can hold 6-7 cars comfortably, one only holds 3, a few hold eight...

So on that platform that only holds three, the locomotive has to go well beyond the actual platform so the last three cars can fit comfotably, the big sign that sais 8, 100-200 yards ahead of the station is where the train should be stopped.

most trains are 3-5 cars, so often no cars are left dangling off the platform.

hope thats clear, and knowing me, it's as clear as mud


*******6**********5*******4*******3*******|----------------------------------------------|*****************
=====|LOCO|==1===|==2===|===3==|===4===|===5===|===6===|=====================
=========================================================================

So the stars represent the grass,The numbers in the grass are the sign posts, the |--------| is the platform, ==== are the tracks, and the |===2===| are the cars.

help any?

what i was saying before, Car number 6 has to be at kleast at the end of the platform, it's not allowed to be off. car number 1 can be off, then 2 if necesary, then number 3 if necesary

hope that helps.

and in the drawing above, the conductor would stande between cars number 3 and 4, and only open the doors for number 4, 5 and 6

but one station beofre hand he'd tell the passenegrs to get ready, and to get off the back of the train.

Kevin the Mac Man [:p] [8D] [;)]

You should give classes on how to make diagrams in the forum threads. I have tried but can't seem to ever get them to be what I want them to look like. Wow, you must have spent some time doing it. Very good job. [:D]

I guess you can come out of the corner for a while. (But be good, you know I am watching.) [}:)] [:0] [:o)]

[Mookie]

Nice job, Kevin! Even Muddled Mookie can understand that one!

[Mookie]

Nice job, Kevin! Even Muddled Mookie can understand that one!

[Anonymous]

Whats imprtant to know about making a diagram is never leave a open space. The diagram must Start on the complete left, otherwise it won't come out, If it starts at the center and moves riught, the Site will automatically move it to the left, and while it's doing so.. it will mangel it all up.

[Anonymous]

Whats imprtant to know about making a diagram is never leave a open space. The diagram must Start on the complete left, otherwise it won't come out, If it starts at the center and moves riught, the Site will automatically move it to the left, and while it's doing so.. it will mangel it all up.

[dharmon]

Okay RR guys...

In the airlines the planes have jump seats in the cockpit. If you are flight crew heading to say LA from Dallas to do your next gig, if there is space available, you can hop in the jump seat or one of the passenger seats. Some airlines extend this courtesy to pilots from other companies too, but usually only if they're union guys. Say Ed was stuck in Kansas, could he hop on (legally SLIC) a UP/BNSF/whatever headed back to Houston?

[dharmon]

Okay RR guys...

In the airlines the planes have jump seats in the cockpit. If you are flight crew heading to say LA from Dallas to do your next gig, if there is space available, you can hop in the jump seat or one of the passenger seats. Some airlines extend this courtesy to pilots from other companies too, but usually only if they're union guys. Say Ed was stuck in Kansas, could he hop on (legally SLIC) a UP/BNSF/whatever headed back to Houston?

[Anonymous]

All Ed would have to do is click his heels three times...

[:D]

[Anonymous]

All Ed would have to do is click his heels three times...

[:D]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

All Ed would have to do is click his heels three times...

[:D]

That's only to get him to Kansas...usually it takes a big tornado to lift you and your house out of there. Much easier to take a train I'd think. Plus Kansas may still be in black and white still. Not sure haven't been through, or over it in a while.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

All Ed would have to do is click his heels three times...

[:D]

That's only to get him to Kansas...usually it takes a big tornado to lift you and your house out of there. Much easier to take a train I'd think. Plus Kansas may still be in black and white still. Not sure haven't been through, or over it in a while.

[rrnut282]

I don't think the railroads are as liberal with "jumpseat privileges" as airlines are. Most RR's have a rule that states " no no-railroad persons will be allowed on trainsmoving or stopped, without the express permission of ....[insert title here]..." My guess is that would include other RR employees, since RR's tend to be xenophobic.

[rrnut282]

I don't think the railroads are as liberal with "jumpseat privileges" as airlines are. Most RR's have a rule that states " no no-railroad persons will be allowed on trainsmoving or stopped, without the express permission of ....[insert title here]..." My guess is that would include other RR employees, since RR's tend to be xenophobic.

[CShaveRR]

Mike, the solar panels on ballast cars are to provide power for remote unloading, sontroled by a person standing well out of the way of the tracks and most of the dust resulting from the unloading. It's been a while since I've seen a UP ballast car without this feature.

[CShaveRR]

Mike, the solar panels on ballast cars are to provide power for remote unloading, sontroled by a person standing well out of the way of the tracks and most of the dust resulting from the unloading. It's been a while since I've seen a UP ballast car without this feature.