Sight Distance and preventable deaths at grade cro

[Anonymous]

Now you stumped me. When you get out of your car go look and see no train then go back get back into car what do you do? Did you remember to look the 1.4666 feet per mile of hour the train might be comeing at you at and take the time to get back to the vehicle, put it in gear and get back to, and clear of the tracks? READ THE NEWS NOW. "The not dumb blonde expert failed to stop"

[wabash1]

monarch you give all that info that no body was on a cell phone and windows down farm truck and paying attention. but still got hit. sounds like a lie to me. and if the train was speeding then the engineer would be fired and in court for manslaughter. what did the tapes say he was doing. you cant fix the tapes alter them its a time dated and leagle document. but to tell you this is like talking to the wall . you aint going to listen. and in most cases where brush is cleared after the fact is was done becouse the judge ordered it.

[wabash1]

see that is where you are wrong and you are to stupid to see it. prowel herbicide will kill off vegetation in hours even trees. second if it was a private crossing it seems to me that they would know when a train is comming. i do and its not from working on the railroad either. and if someone pulls in front of a train i dont see how its the railroads fault. it is the driver of the car fault and the blame stops there, it seams to me that operation mike saver is wanting more money . And if you think you have the monopoly of sue happy cases you are wrong as a whole the crews members are going to start sueing the estates of thsese suicide drivers and we will win. these no fault states will make it easy to do and then lets see who withers away.

[Anonymous]

what is the case # Ed? where did this happen? Time for some research.
Mike

[Anonymous]

Then DO SOMETHING about it ED!!!!

[Anonymous]

Ed,
We've been down this road before, I do not lump anyone together without knowing the facts. I am truly sorry that you as well as this mother are victims of a COMPANY that puts MAKING MONEY before LIFE. That is why I've begged you before as an insider, PLEASE start making waves!!!! Together we can change this attitude. I have some pics of a grade crossing that is crossed TWICE a day by a school bus with about 20ft. of sight distance. The railroad owns about 100ft. or right of way yet refuses to improve it. If the lights went on as the bus was crossing, IT WOULDN"T MAKE IT!!! Please consider HELPING. I never lumped you in any category, Ed, but if your not PART of the solution then you are inherently part of the problem. You being an insider to this have the best chances to really make a difference. Take care and please accept my apologies for apparently coming across in a style that was not intended.
Mike Papula

[wabash1]

stupidity again. fra authorized people can work for the railroad. better tell that to the boss who hire out private contractors to work for them and let them know that some guy named misery says that you cant hire anyone who is not fra approved. railroads been hire out the work for years from bridge work to t&s work. but i am sure you will call me a liar. and all the weeds i cut that was along mine and the railroad right of way i guess you will sue me for that now.

[Mookie]

Ed: Amen!

Jen

[wabash1]

youu are stupid beyond belief i will tell you this if i was about to hit a propane truck i would not be in the seat i be on the floor and i would not even put the train in emergency til i was clear of the truck. why should isit in the fire. hit them get clear and then go into emergency. i hope someday i get to meet you in court you will look like that blonde girl in legally blonde stumbling all over yourself

[Mookie]

My point exactly!

Thanx

Jen

[Mookie]

I live in farm country! How can you not see- I didn't say hear - SEE - something that big! If your line of sight is blocked - I still maintain - get off your butt, out of your vehicle and go look! Then complain that same butt off to the person responsible for cutting down the vegetation!

Farm vehicles are involved in many of the accidents around here because they become complacent. Farmer got hit by Amtrak - why? Because it came at a different time that usual - and believe me, the crossings are marked and Amtrak makes a lot of noise - I hear it every morning at my house and I am a good 4-5 miles away from it! He wasn't paying attention! Case closed!

My thinking is that Amtrak should have sued him for his inability to pay attention!

Jen

[Mookie]

Jackflash: I was exaggerating so he wouldn't have a comeback. But I do feel that I will do whatever it takes to protect myself and my family. And if it comes down to something in the way - farm equipment, brush, or Mike and Missouri standing where I can't see around them, I will get out of the car and look up and down the tracks!

Jen

[Anonymous]

Ed dead Head exactly what part of they didn't see the train until the last second did you not understand. You can't beat a train if you don't know its there plain and simple.

Will A yellow sign put windows through the sight obstructions. Jeez. Maybe there would have been gates there if the railroads didn't charge $400 bucks apiece for the yellow signs and sign posts you mention.

And far as people going around gates I can furnish all the median barrier barriers (The thing you can't find) ...I cant find a thing that would have made the outcome any different...to keep them from going around. What year in the 1930's you reckon the first person was killed going around and STILL you all ain't figured it out.

Closeing crossings is the stupidous thing I ever heard of. Let's close down every other railroad track instead.

[Anonymous]

Old Dead Head Ed lieing out both sides of the key board. What gave you away Dead Head was the drug test. Railroads save a small fortune every year because drug tests are not required. Let's see probably 10,000 accidents, incidents a year times two crew members, times the hospital costs, times the down time of the train, times the relief crews that would have to be brought in, paper work, and if the employees actually tested positive watch out bank book. Yep Ed all the other CDL drivers get tested but not train crews. Big bucks in high places you know.

But then there is the WHY the gates were on the snail tracks with great sight distances to start with. Another trick the railroads use is to waste the safety funds on snail tracks? Why you ask Dead Head Ed? Liability. See if those gates were on a 70 mph track and they failed and were proven to have failed it costs the railroads 30 times what it would cost them if they blindside a driver when cross-bucks are in place.

Then you used a Volvo for the vehicle in your make believe fairy tale Dead ED Head which is the wrong vehicle for your scenerio of a collapsed vehicle. Volvos don't collapse. They have steel plates in the sides to prevent that.

What do you mean never looked? You were only going 30 feet per second supposedly.The sight distances weren't a mile like you said there Ed Dead Head. What about the standing equipment that had to be in the way there illegally Ed. That's always the problem when somebody is hit. Like somebody won't look going around a gate.

The reason the crews get sued is to keep the cases out of Federal court where the settlements are lower you dip. They don't put that in the book do they? Who wrote the BOOK? Oh the same people who have the worse safety record in the WORLD. Why don't you give melancholy monarch, myopic mike, and the missouri mule the trial docket number of this case you phony so we can check out your explicate details.

Who goes to the movies in the daytime anyway you goof ball. You must be way down under the whale dung. You really need to take some lessons on how the low life should write a fake railroad story!!

And the brakes the train crew hits a switch lowering the rubber friction pads that make contact with the very pourous substance that has been applied between the tracks which makes the train stop in a reasonable distance and then the outriggers go out and dig down into the earth createing a drag stop after the poarachutes are released to catch air friction and then the retro rockets kick in. Oh I bet you are talking about the skateing rink brakes the railroads use though where Fred and Barney stick there feet down through the floorboard?

[edblysard]

Monarch, or what ever you real name is.
I would first like to appologise to you, for lumping you in with the likes of mike and missouri, your postings read in the smae vein as theirs. We railroaders get so very tired of being protrayed as uncaring callous killers who go out of their way to harm people, when in fact we try so very hard not to.
No, I wasnt there at you daughters accident, but based on what you state, the engineer should have been sounding his horn and bell, and the head light and ditch lights should have been on long before the crossing. If they wernt, and you say witnesses confirm this, then he should be punished to the fullest extend of the law. You will not find another railroader on this site, or most places for that matter, who would condone not having the headlight on at night, or not blowing for a crossing. Most engineers I work with sound the horn at crossings we are not even required to sound the horn at, private crossings in industries and a few private crossings at home sites. What did the event recorder state as his speed? If it was a few miles over, well, trains dont act like cars, it isnt possible to keep them at a constant speed. If, on the other hand, it was excessive, thats his fault.
The rules we follow are not for our protection as much as they are there for your protection. Remember, we are riding in a machine that weighs hundredes of tons, not much other than another locomotive can do too much damage to us.
And if it was up to the crews, there wouldnt be any crossings at all. We really do belive that the safest crossing is the one that isnt there.
I see you did have to explain to a young person that death can take you away at any time. I am sorry you had to experience that, and sorry you lost your daughter. I have three daughters myself, and hope and pray they have to bury me, instead of the other way around.
You stated "your minds are made up, and you dont want to be confused by anything like the facts"
Not quite true. Yes, we are biased, we have to put up with people driving around gates, or trying to beat the train on a daily basis, so we do get a generalized attitude towards them. If you read my post,(again, I appoligise for including you) you should know how angry I am still at that idiot for letting being late for a movie justify taking such an enormous risk, one which he lost. But when things like this happen, no one ever seems to realize that we, the railroaders, lose something too. My wife no longer tells people what I do for a living, she no longer brings me dinner, and I have a nagging suspicion she still thinks I somehow killed that little girl, even though she was there shortly after it happened, and heard the driver tell the cops his story. And I still play the what if game. What if I had taken a minute longer to couple up the cars, or what if there had been one more hand brake to take off, we would have gotten to the crossing after this fool had passed, and that little girl would have seen her movie, and her next birthday and still be alive this day.
I know my engineer still beats himself over the head every day about it, all you have to do is look at him. I still play it over and over in my mind, looking for that one extra thing any of us could have done, and truthfully, I cant find a thing that would have made the outcome any different. You had the honor of riding with your daughter to the funeral home, and a chance to say good bye to her. I have to ride around every day with a living corpse, waiting for the day he will turn himself into a real one, and there isnt a thing I can do or say that can help him, its eating him alive before my very eyes.
So yes, I do see the human side of all of this.
My gripe with mike and missouri isnt over the human suffering, its about their idea that some how drivers should be given the chance to judge wether they can beat a train or not. You have sadly learned that you cant, they show up at any time, from any direction. I applaude your fight to get evey crossing gated, although I may argue who should bear the cost, the concept is a good one. Better yet, try at every double lane crossing to get quad gates installed, they are hard to drive around. And if you can, pester the designers to do away with as many crossing as they can. I would bet you have already spoken to the high schoolers in your town about the dangers of crossings, if not, then please do so, comming from a mother who had a child killed at one should get through their thick little heads. I hope you succeed in getting a gate at the crossing where you daughter died, but if you cant get the state, railroad or the county to provide you with one, then let me know. I will send you a yellow reflective crossing sign, and the post to put it on.
Even though we work for railroads, we are humans too, and dads.
Again, you have my apology for my comments, and my sympathy for your daughter's death.
Ed Blysard

[edblysard]

Ok, melancholy monarch, myopic mike, and the missouri mule.
During a conversation this morning with a friend at nasa, a word came up that seems to aptly fit you guys.
Obtuse.
In case you ever take the self imposed blinders off, and actually read what and how the people who railroad for a living feel about this subject, you just might get a clue.
You repeatedly ask us if we know how it feels to have someone killed at a crossing, as if none of us have ever had that happen to our friends and family.
What a trio of dips.
At least three of the people who tried to explain why you should never mix automobiles and trains have had a family member killed at a crossing.
You jerks.
Now, why dont you try to put yourself in our position, if you can, which I doubt.
Mike, when was the last time you ran a train?
Missouri, do you even know how a train applies its brakes?
Monarch, what railroad do you work for?
All three of you, when was the last time you looked into the eyes of a little girl, seconds before she was wiped off the face of the planet, knowing there wasnt a thing more you could do except pray?
Which one of you had to hold your engineers head as he threw up on himself?
Mike, was that you standing there, holding my engineer up because he was jittering so much he would have collapsed?
Monarch, I could have sworn that was you who opened the drivers door, and watched him step out with out so much as a good bruise, and then hold him back as he tried to look in the back of what was left of his volvo.
Did any of you get a good look at what was back there? A little girl, crushed between the rear doors in a space less than my hands width.
Which one of you stared into the face of your 16 year old daughter, who, along with you wife and other two daughters, had driven up on the scene while bringing you dinner. Can any of you answer her questions?
Which one of you three had to watch the horror on this mans face as the wreckers pried his car open, so the EMTS could remove the little girl, who was crushed between the two rear doors?
Which one of you had to excerise every bit of your self restraint not to beat this man into pulp, because his excuse was they were going to be late for a movie, and he allways drives around this gate, because the trains dont go fast here, and he had never been hit before and everybody does it?
Did any of you have to watch as they poured, and I mean poured, parts of this little girl into a medical examiners body bag?
Which one of you had to go home, and look into your wifes eyes, and see "you killed her" lurking there?
Did any of you have to blow into a tube, urinate in a cup, and endure four hours of interogation by police, then your own boss, and a police search of your car, then empty your locker, strip you down so they could look under your testes and up you rear looking for drugs they knew wernt there?
Of you three, which one took out a loan on your home to pay the attorney to defend you? No mike and missouri, the railroad dosnt pay for our defense, they cover themselves, but we have to pay for our own.
You know the worst part of all of this?
We were on tangent(straight) track, with no sight obstruction, visiability over a mile in each direction, moving less than 20mph, two locomotives and three empty cars, there were gates, bells, lights and at least one car stopped in front of this jerk. He drove around the car and gates and right in to our path. He never slowed down, never looked. Yes mike, missouri, we were ringing the bell, blowing correctly on the horn,
it was daylight and no rain. Yes missouri, the approach timming circuts work for the gate, in fact, even though we run slower than a class 1 road, our approach times are longer, our choice, we requested them that way.
We did everything by the book, even more than the rules say, and this jerk killed his only child because he was late for a movie. He then sued us, along with the railroad, for killing his daughter.
Now all three of you can bend over, grab your knees, and stick you heads back up your read ends where you seem to have kept them for so long.
Not a one of you are worth one more minute of any railroaders or railroaders family members time or consideration.
Ed

[Anonymous]

by "speeding" I mean it was exceeding the speed limit - trains have speed limits - at that point of the track the speed limit was 45 - the train was exceeding 45mph

Oh, they saw the train, at the very last second the lights came on and they were able to see the train coming from behind the building that was blocking the sight distance. You could tell from the place the skid marks began where they saw the train. the driver had the presence of mind to swerve to one side - her side so the truck took the brunt of the hit on the driver side. At the point where they actually saw the train he should have been laying on his horn - witnesses proved he was not.
When I got to the sight, two of the girls was all ready gone in the ambulance. the Driver was laying on the side of the road, I took her hand and talked to her, tried to calm her, not being a medical person, just a mom, I didn't know she was dying. She didn't make it to the hospital.

My only daughter was pinned under the truck for over an hour and all that time no one told me she was dead - being small town - my friends were the paramedic and firefighters - they knew but couldn't bring themselves to tell me. finally they got her out - wrapped her in a pink blanket and put her in the hearse. the funeral director, at my request, allowed with me to ride to the funeral home with her. Her body was so limp and lifeless, I'll never forget that ride. then my husband and I had to head for the hospital and find our son before someone else told him that his sister was dead and that his girlfried who was 3 months pregnant with our grandchild had also been involved. Only by the grace of God did they both live.I known in my heart that given the chance, my daughter would have given her life for that of her unborn nephew. She loved kids so much. The coroner said my daughter died instantly, she was thrown threw the windshield and her head struck the train.

I just wanted you to see some of the human side of this. whether you will admit it the facts still remain that innocent people who were paying to the circumstances as they were and still hundreds are killed each year.

My goal is not to argue with people on this forum, you're minds are made up and you don't want to be confused by anything like the facts.

If "Lesa's" crossing had been equipped with gates, she would be alive and with her family today. The FRA on it's own website states that gates are 90% effective in preventing collisions.
My goal is to work with city and state officials to achieve my goal of gates for all states. Yes, that is a formidable job, but we have to start somewhere.

[Jackflash]

what do you mean "speeding", a train isnt like a
automobile, going 75 in a 30 mph zone just dosnt
happen, oh and by the way, if the people you speak
about in the pick-up were paying attention they
wouldnt have gotten hit, the train didnt sneak
up on them

[Anonymous]

1 the stereo was not on
2 both windows were down
3 they did not have a cell phone
4 there was no back seat - farm truck
5 they were paying attention - one did not lose consciousness and was able to give detains

they did get hit by a train, one that was speeding
two dead, two scarred physically and emotionally for life

[Jackflash]

1 turn the stereo down
2 roll the window down
3 put the cell phone down
4 dont be talking to somebody in the backseat
5 pay attention to what you are doing

you wont get hit by the train

[Anonymous]

Let's see if I've got this right. You said,"I take responsibility for myself and always check for one". 99 percent of the motoring public do the same.

"I don't race onto the tracks to see if the train is really there". 99 percent of the motoring public do the same.

Problems arise when the engineer does NOT sound the horn - whether you want to admit it or not that does happen. Problems arise when the lights and or gates malfunction - assuming there are lights and gates. That too does happen.

Problems arise when visibility is obscured by trees, bushes AND the railroads little silver building. Those things happen too.

All the motoring public asks is for the train to let us know you are coming. We will gladly stay out of the way. Yes, there are those who go around the gates, but don't label all of us just because there are some who do. Too many times I've SEEN and heard from others how the railroad comes in AFTER a fatality accident and cuts down all the trees and bushes AND moves the little building across the tracks to the other side because it was obscuring the sight distance down the track. You obviously don't know what it feels like to live with the knowledge every day for the rest of your life that your loved one would most likely still be alive IF the crossing had had gates before the accident instead of after, and IF all the sight obstructions had been removed before the accident rather than after.

I truly pray that you never have to join the ranks of us that do.

[Anonymous]

I believe Iowa electrics settlement check to me was around $80,000. You see they forgot to check their switch arm ground wires on the 7,200 KV poles. Had a terrible attorney then also.

This year well the award it is going to the idiots who try to cover the railroads negligient butts.

[sooblue]

You replied to ME but your talking to ED.
You need to focus.
Have you ever heard of the Darwin Awards?
Each year the list comes out of the top winners.
Each of the winners won the award by doing their best to off themselves.
One example; In Iowa a few years back a man fried himself when he cut into a highline wire and his insulated gloves had gotten a small hole in them.
He was stealing the Aluminum wire. He ended up burned black and was so brittle that he broke appart.
Over the years the darwin awards have had many winners.
Each time someone is killed by a train there is another potential winner.
If it wasn't for the trauma that the head end crew endures I'd say give the engineer a rubber stamp and each time they off someone they could stamp under their window.
At the end of the year awards are given to the engineer who offed the most morrons.
One less notthead to have to deal with on the road.
Sooblue

[Anonymous]

I think they should have to weld like volkswagons on the front of the trains and the crews run the trains out of those. Wouldn't be long before they were going "CAN YOU SEE ME NOW?"

[wabash1]

ed csx engineer and the rest i am tired of this post. the just of the matter is that missouri didnt get enough money for some kid that got killed at a crossing that the kid was at fault. it is never the railroads fault but you cant see that call me a killer a muderer or anything you want i will keep doing my job. and if you are standing on the tracks ill do like i always do i wont brake til i hit you. the just of the matter what ever you say it wont change my mind and if in court with you ill make you look like a fool. your lawyer to. its funny when they ask you was your horn blowing, yes it was they ask how do you know, duh i could hear it...... just stupid stuff like this. and why didnt you avoid hitting them. duh the steering wheel sliped out of my hand. It should be a happy day for americans to get idiots out of the genee pool that way they cant reproduce. have a fun day i haft to go to work soon. maybe ill get luck and see a lawyer.

[wabash1]

I dont need to lie. I tell the truth and you hate it. the problem is you dont have all the answer and the railroad uses it in there favor. this is the reason you are here is try and make us look bad. oh even though i threw a good trump on your hand and stunded you i am still saving the best for last when i am ready to play it. and what you cant stand is its the truth if you research before opening your mouth. you can find it on ns web site and the utu and ble web sites. the union has a problem with it becouse of privacy but just look its there. have a good day..

[Jackflash]

Jen. I know of no case where you would have to
get out of your automobile to "go look down the
tracks" NO crossing is that sight impared, even
on slow speed tracks the engineer will start
blowing the horn 900 feet away from the crossing,
and, if it is a private crossing, (you own the
crossing) you know the tracks are there, heck
you LIVE there, just look before you go across.
If you get hit by a train you were trying to beat
it or there is driver inattention involved.
jackflash

[Anonymous]

Let me see if I understand this. We should do nothing about railroad crossings because guns are more risky.

I can't help but wonder if 1000 class 1 railroad employees died each year, on the job, whether this forum would feel differently. I mean all industrial accidents are mostly the fault of the employee aren't they?

The principle is simple - eliminate needless deaths if you can. Whether through guns, drugs, rr crossings or whatever.

By the way, I think this forum is the property of Kalmbach who makes money selling magazines to people who love trains, like myself. If it were owned by CSX I wouldn't be here. Grade crossing safety (or simply RR safety) seems like a good topic to me.

[Anonymous]

Just one more thing. Maybe you should contact Operation Lifesaver, they would love your new motto; "Getting killed at a grade crossing is a stupid moment". I would hate to reduce the loss of someones son or daughter to a "stupid moment", but Operation Lifesaver would love to reduce it to that.
Mike

[Anonymous]

Jen,
No, just a little,gutless man who was reduced to tears after seeing a family destroyed by a company who took the life of thier daughter because the $1000 worth of vegetation removal was a "non-issue" because they weren't cited for it. This would be one of those 400 deaths that Operation Lifesaver tells everyone is there own fault.
Mike