Chicago & Northwestern Railroad

[nanaimo73]

The Chicago and North Western entered the Powder River Basin on the WRPI which was owned by Union Pacific. This line started at Joyce, Nebraska.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=12&Z=13&X=731&Y=5802&W
It joined the old C&NW Cowboy line at Crandall, Wyoming.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=12&Z=13&X=710&Y=5906&W WRPI track ended at Shawnee Junction where BNSF track continues north.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=12&Z=13&X=613&Y=5917&W
The main C&NW base was at Bill.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=12&Z=13&X=598&Y=5982&W
The first mine served was Antelope which produced 29,682,854 tons of coal in 2004.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=12&Z=13&X=589&Y=6016&W
The next mine was North Antelope-Rochelle which produced 82,462,835 tons.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=13&Z=13&X=299&Y=3012&W
The third mine was North Rochelle which produced 13,163,942 tons.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=13&Z=13&X=298&Y=3011&W
Mine #4 is Black Thunder which produced 74,291,168 tons.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=12&Z=13&X=596&Y=6047&W
Next is Jacobs Ranch at 38,556,877.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=13&Z=13&X=300&Y=3024&W
And then Coal Creek which was inactive in 2004.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=13&Z=13&X=297&Y=3042&W
Cordero comes next with 38,743,667 which includes Rojo.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=14&Z=13&X=147&Y=1523&W
Rojo
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=13&Z=13&X=294&Y=3049&W
Belle Ayr produced 18,688,358 tons in 2004.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=14&Z=13&X=146&Y=1525&W
The northernmost mine served by the C&NW was Caballo which produced 26,500,000
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=13&Z=13&X=294&Y=3052&W
During 2004 the mines in the WRPI territory produced 322,089,700 tons of coal, about 880,000 tons per day, or about 7,300 cars (65 trains).
North of the WRPI zone BNSF serves several mines on their own.
Wyodak 4,780,104 tons
Eagle Butte 22,997,687
Dry Fork 4,533,621
Rawhide 6,869,989
Buckskin 12,794,992
http://www.wma-minelife.com/coal/coalfrm/coalfrm1.htm

These Terraserver links are several years old. I believe the trackage should still be the same but the mine facings will be quite different.

Dale@Links-R-Us

[MP173]

Just imagine what kinda bad financial position CNW was in NOT to get financial backing for the biggest opportunity in the 20th century for railroads.

Bob, it must have been bleak.

Today, DME seemingly can get backing, with rates considerably lower (adjusted for inflation) than back in the 70's.

CNW was sitting on a black gold mine and couldnt pull the trigger. How frustrating.

As I understand it, CNW "built" down to the UP, perhaps thru trackage rights and then handed the coal over to UP and then received it back at Fremont, or Omaha.

ed

[Anonymous]

No, UP didn't operate trains into the basin before the merger. UP would deliver the trains to C&NW at South Morril, NE where the UP crew would step off, a C&NW crew would climb on and the train would normally leave very quickly (They still do, just not quite as fast). The South Morril based C&NW crew would take the train up the new line to the Cowboy line and onto the Joint Line up to Bill. At Bill a new crew would climb on and take the train to a mine and back to Bill where another South Morril based crew would return the train to the UP. The expected elapsed time from UP-back to-UP was 20-22 hours.
Also, C&NW's subsidiary in the Basin was actually called Western Rail Properties Inc.


P.S.-- I should give credit to Fred Frailey for much of this info and for getting me very interested in the PRB. TRAINS, November 1989, pages 40-63.
Fred! Write another article on the PRB! Please!

[Murphy Siding]

cnw8835: Do you know if that was always a CNW operation? Or did UP also operate trains and crews to the mines-before the merger?


bobwilcox: What can you tell me about the section of track that CNW and BN built together? Was this in addition to tracks that I believe BN already had in place?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by cnw8835

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

I know some posters live in the Chicago area, and a lot of us live in the area once served by CNW ( the midwest/upper plains). I was hoping some would share their thoughts on the CNW.

Starting with: How did the CNW work their way into the Powder River Basin? I would have thought that BN would have fought to the end to keep out competition there. I lived in Gillette in the early 1980's. Every train then had Cascade Green locomotives. At some point, CNW (with help of UP I presume) got in there, and I missed that part. Can anybody explain?

Thanks

Do you mean C&NW in Gillette proper, because C&NW never got there. At first C&NW's rights ended at Coal Creek Jct and then extended north to Caballo Jct still about 20 miles south of Gillette. Also the farther north on the joint line the fewer C&NW trains there would be since C&NW only entered and exited from the south end. I don't know if that is what you were looking for but there it is.

I didn't know that the CNW(now UP) didn't go all the way up to Gillette. I moved away in 1984, and have only been back once. So apparantly the CNW only served the mines in the southern end of Campbell County?

C&NW origanally only served the mines up to Coal Creek which branches off of the joint line at milepost 26.2 (from Donkey Creek, the north end of the line). C&NW ran its first train on August 15, 1984. Soon after that C&NW went to the ICC trying to get its trackage rights extended farther north so it could serve the northern 4 or so mines on the line. Cordero Mine had already built a 1.5 mile lead down to Coal Creek Jct so C&NW could have access the mine. The ICC gave C&NW permission to build a 10.8 mile line in 1985 to serve the remaining mines served only by BN but in 1986 BN relented and gave C&NW rights to continue farther north on the joint line for a price. C&NW had already surveyed a line and was ready to put out contracts when BN agreed to the deal.
C&NW served no mines on the branch north out of Gillette off of the Alliance-Billings line. BNSF is still the only rail service to those 3 or 4 mines.

[bobwilcox]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

C&NW sold thier soul to UP to get into the PRB. I suspected at the time that C&NW would pay dearly for this [:(].

Bob or others might comment on this, but I believe it actually turned out quite well for the C&NW.

Jay

It saved the CNW from the fate of the Rock Island and Milwaukee as the Granger railroads shrank to a size that made some sense in the last quarter of the 20th Century.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cnw8835

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

I know some posters live in the Chicago area, and a lot of us live in the area once served by CNW ( the midwest/upper plains). I was hoping some would share their thoughts on the CNW.

Starting with: How did the CNW work their way into the Powder River Basin? I would have thought that BN would have fought to the end to keep out competition there. I lived in Gillette in the early 1980's. Every train then had Cascade Green locomotives. At some point, CNW (with help of UP I presume) got in there, and I missed that part. Can anybody explain?

Thanks

Do you mean C&NW in Gillette proper, because C&NW never got there. At first C&NW's rights ended at Coal Creek Jct and then extended north to Caballo Jct still about 20 miles south of Gillette. Also the farther north on the joint line the fewer C&NW trains there would be since C&NW only entered and exited from the south end. I don't know if that is what you were looking for but there it is.

I didn't know that the CNW(now UP) didn't go all the way up to Gillette. I moved away in 1984, and have only been back once. So apparantly the CNW only served the mines in the southern end of Campbell County?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

I know some posters live in the Chicago area, and a lot of us live in the area once served by CNW ( the midwest/upper plains). I was hoping some would share their thoughts on the CNW.

Starting with: How did the CNW work their way into the Powder River Basin? I would have thought that BN would have fought to the end to keep out competition there. I lived in Gillette in the early 1980's. Every train then had Cascade Green locomotives. At some point, CNW (with help of UP I presume) got in there, and I missed that part. Can anybody explain?

Thanks

Do you mean C&NW in Gillette proper, because C&NW never got there. At first C&NW's rights ended at Coal Creek Jct and then extended north to Caballo Jct still about 20 miles south of Gillette. Also the farther north on the joint line the fewer C&NW trains there would be since C&NW only entered and exited from the south end. I don't know if that is what you were looking for but there it is.

[jeaton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

C&NW sold thier soul to UP to get into the PRB. I suspected at the time that C&NW would pay dearly for this [:(].

Bob or others might comment on this, but I believe it actually turned out quite well for the C&NW.

Jay

[bobwilcox]

The C&NW recognized the potental in the PRB in the early 1970s but could not find a way to finance the project. During this time I was a Market Manager at the C&NW.

The BN initically announced they were going to object to the C&NW coming into the PRB. Robert Spafford, Chairman of the ICC, invited Larry Provo, CEO of the C&NW and Bob Dowding, CEO of the BN to a meeting in Washington. He pointed out to his guests that the US faced an energy crisis and the national interest required the C&NW coming into the PRB as soon as they could arrange financing and specifically without a long drawn out ICC case about the C&NW getting access. The two CEOs agreed with Mr Spafford's view.

However, the C&NW was unable to finance the project via the Cowboy Line or a connection with the UP in NE. Therefore, the UP thought the C&NW should step aside and not object to the UP coming in from Nebraska via the North Platte River. The C&NW's counter proposal was that they set up a joint venture(Northwest Town Properties). The C&NW contributed their geographic position and the UP contributed their borrowing power to the new joint venture.

[espeefoamer]

C&NW sold thier soul to UP to get into the PRB. I suspected at the time that C&NW would pay dearly for this [:(].

[Murphy Siding]

I know some posters live in the Chicago area, and a lot of us live in the area once served by CNW ( the midwest/upper plains). I was hoping some would share their thoughts on the CNW.

Starting with: How did the CNW work their way into the Powder River Basin? I would have thought that BN would have fought to the end to keep out competition there. I lived in Gillette in the early 1980's. Every train then had Cascade Green locomotives. At some point, CNW (with help of UP I presume) got in there, and I missed that part. Can anybody explain?

Thanks