QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73 Union Pacific bought the C&NW for the line from Council Bluffs to Chicago. It was competing with ATSF for Chicago-California traffic and with BN for Pacific North West-Chicago traffic and it needed that line to be in top shape. UP was concerned C&NW would let the line degrade. UP had the morgage on the WRPI and would have gotten that one way or another. The rest of the C&NW was not that important to UP.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding Can you elaborate on designing the services your customers required? If most was regulated, what could CNW do to differentiate it from other railroads, in order to keep from competing soley on price?
QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox Each market manager at the C&NW was in charge of a group of commodities. I did chemicals while other people did grain, autos, coal, lumber,food, etc. It was our job to design the services our customers required, set the price for the service and then promote the C&NW's services to the customers. Most of the time I was doing this prior to the Staggers Act so the pricing part had serious limitations. However, we were able to get block shipments of potash and grain up and running prior to Staggers. In addition the CNW in the 1970s had three basic strategies. We were to get the comuter service deficits off our back and on to the backs of the taxpayers in NE IL. We were to abandon the 60% of the mileage that only produced 4% of the revenue. We were to build a strong relationship with the UP after the CRIP fiasco when the UP and CNW were at each others throats. All of our market plans had to complement these three strategies.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73 Union Pacific took out an option to buy the Iowa Interstate in May 1989 while Japonica Partners launched a hostile takeover bid for the C&NW. UP would have put in double track and CTC and certainly could have built a large yard away from Chicago, much as they have done at Rochelle. Perhaps they would have purchased the EJE east of Joliet and interchanged with NS, CSX and Conrail in Indiana. The Rochelle webcam would have been at Wyanet. http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=13&Z=16&X=176&Y=2863&W Deja-Vu! Makes you wonder why UP didn't jump right in and buy CNW at that time?
QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73 Union Pacific took out an option to buy the Iowa Interstate in May 1989 while Japonica Partners launched a hostile takeover bid for the C&NW. UP would have put in double track and CTC and certainly could have built a large yard away from Chicago, much as they have done at Rochelle. Perhaps they would have purchased the EJE east of Joliet and interchanged with NS, CSX and Conrail in Indiana. The Rochelle webcam would have been at Wyanet. http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=13&Z=16&X=176&Y=2863&W
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox The C&NW recognized the potental in the PRB in the early 1970s but could not find a way to finance the project. During this time I was a Market Manager at the C&NW. The BN initically announced they were going to object to the C&NW coming into the PRB. Robert Spafford, Chairman of the ICC, invited Larry Provo, CEO of the C&NW and Bob Dowding, CEO of the BN to a meeting in Washington. He pointed out to his guests that the US faced an energy crisis and the national interest required the C&NW coming into the PRB as soon as they could arrange financing and specifically without a long drawn out ICC case about the C&NW getting access. The two CEOs agreed with Mr Spafford's view. bobwilcox: What is/was a Market Manager, at CNW? Thanks However, the C&NW was unable to finance the project via the Cowboy Line or a connection with the UP in NE. Therefore, the UP thought the C&NW should step aside and not object to the UP coming in from Nebraska via the North Platte River. The C&NW's counter proposal was that they set up a joint venture(Northwest Town Properties). The C&NW contributed their geographic position and the UP contributed their borrowing power to the new joint venture.
QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox The C&NW recognized the potental in the PRB in the early 1970s but could not find a way to finance the project. During this time I was a Market Manager at the C&NW. The BN initically announced they were going to object to the C&NW coming into the PRB. Robert Spafford, Chairman of the ICC, invited Larry Provo, CEO of the C&NW and Bob Dowding, CEO of the BN to a meeting in Washington. He pointed out to his guests that the US faced an energy crisis and the national interest required the C&NW coming into the PRB as soon as they could arrange financing and specifically without a long drawn out ICC case about the C&NW getting access. The two CEOs agreed with Mr Spafford's view. bobwilcox: What is/was a Market Manager, at CNW? Thanks However, the C&NW was unable to finance the project via the Cowboy Line or a connection with the UP in NE. Therefore, the UP thought the C&NW should step aside and not object to the UP coming in from Nebraska via the North Platte River. The C&NW's counter proposal was that they set up a joint venture(Northwest Town Properties). The C&NW contributed their geographic position and the UP contributed their borrowing power to the new joint venture.
QUOTE: Originally posted by up829 UP rerouted much of it's traffic ..
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding I seem to recall that the UP and CNW had been working together for a long time-as far back as when UP was built? I do know that CNW was a major partner in hauling UP trains from Fremont and Omaha on to Chicago. It would seem to me that CNW was not really in a position to ask any other railroad for help. UP, I'm sure would have agreed.[;)]
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by cnw8835 QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan. I wi***hat the CNW Railway was still around today. I realy also wanted to see the CNW run Coal Trains on the Cowboy Line. But when the CNW "GAVE" them selves to the UPRR.....that ended it right there. It was realy sad that the cowboy no longer runs Trains anymore. There was some hope for the cowboy line but not anymore. As for the Coal Trains. Well time will tell......Allan. Wouldn't that have required a ga-zillion dollars in ROW rebuild to run heavy coal trains over the Cowboy Line? Yes, it would have cost a whole lot to rebuild the Cowboy Line. Its was 519 miles from Fremont to Shawnee Jct with 90-100 lbs rail with very little ballast. There were 417 bridges, almost all of which would have to have been rebuilt. At best it would have cost 1 million a mile to get the line to the point where a coal train could even safely travel over it. In the mid 70's when rebuilding the Cowboy was first proposed, C&NW was in no shape to spend at least a half billion dollars just on the Cowboy and then another half billion on their portion of the Joint Line. C&NW couldn't have managed that even in the best of times. Once CNW's Pacific ambitions ended, the Cowboy line no longer mattered in the larger scheme of things. For all intents and purposes, it became a Granger branch. In the 1970's there was a lot of overbuilt capacity, and it made sense to use UP's available capacity rather than spend a lot of money on a superfluous single commodity line. Today it might be different, as capacity is maxed and any new business is going to require added tracks. Thus, we have the DM&E taking on what CNW couldn't pull off. If CNW had somehow managed to keep it all on the home rails sans UP's involvement, would that have forestalled the UP takeover of CNW?
QUOTE: Originally posted by cnw8835 QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan. I wi***hat the CNW Railway was still around today. I realy also wanted to see the CNW run Coal Trains on the Cowboy Line. But when the CNW "GAVE" them selves to the UPRR.....that ended it right there. It was realy sad that the cowboy no longer runs Trains anymore. There was some hope for the cowboy line but not anymore. As for the Coal Trains. Well time will tell......Allan. Wouldn't that have required a ga-zillion dollars in ROW rebuild to run heavy coal trains over the Cowboy Line? Yes, it would have cost a whole lot to rebuild the Cowboy Line. Its was 519 miles from Fremont to Shawnee Jct with 90-100 lbs rail with very little ballast. There were 417 bridges, almost all of which would have to have been rebuilt. At best it would have cost 1 million a mile to get the line to the point where a coal train could even safely travel over it. In the mid 70's when rebuilding the Cowboy was first proposed, C&NW was in no shape to spend at least a half billion dollars just on the Cowboy and then another half billion on their portion of the Joint Line. C&NW couldn't have managed that even in the best of times.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan. I wi***hat the CNW Railway was still around today. I realy also wanted to see the CNW run Coal Trains on the Cowboy Line. But when the CNW "GAVE" them selves to the UPRR.....that ended it right there. It was realy sad that the cowboy no longer runs Trains anymore. There was some hope for the cowboy line but not anymore. As for the Coal Trains. Well time will tell......Allan. Wouldn't that have required a ga-zillion dollars in ROW rebuild to run heavy coal trains over the Cowboy Line?
QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan. I wi***hat the CNW Railway was still around today. I realy also wanted to see the CNW run Coal Trains on the Cowboy Line. But when the CNW "GAVE" them selves to the UPRR.....that ended it right there. It was realy sad that the cowboy no longer runs Trains anymore. There was some hope for the cowboy line but not anymore. As for the Coal Trains. Well time will tell......Allan.
QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173 Just imagine what kinda bad financial position CNW was in NOT to get financial backing for the biggest opportunity in the 20th century for railroads. Bob, it must have been bleak. Today, DME seemingly can get backing, with rates considerably lower (adjusted for inflation) than back in the 70's. CNW was sitting on a black gold mine and couldnt pull the trigger. How frustrating. As I understand it, CNW "built" down to the UP, perhaps thru trackage rights and then handed the coal over to UP and then received it back at Fremont, or Omaha. ed
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