Chicago & Northwestern Railroad

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

The C&NW gained entry into Kansas City by aquiring the CGW. They also got rid of a competitor and gained acess to more customers. They also abandoned a lot of the CGW fairly quickly.

How did CNW abandon a lot of CGW fairly quickly? See bobwilcox post above.

[nanaimo73]

The C&NW gained entry into Kansas City by aquiring the CGW. They also got rid of a competitor and gained acess to more customers. They also abandoned a lot of the CGW fairly quickly.

[Anonymous]

Why did CNW take over the CGW? Wouldn't the CGW have gone under?

[bobwilcox]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

What took CNW so long to rationalize it's branchlines?

Basically it was the ICC. In the early 1970s a money losing line with traffic would take 4-5 years to abandon in the face of opposition. Within ten years that time frame had been cut to two years and the ICC allowing "oppurtuinity" costs into the process.

[Murphy Siding]

What took CNW so long to rationalize it's branchlines?

[nanaimo73]

I know Soo Line was looking at daylighting their tunnel in 1991. That was tunnel #1 on the Milwaukee main line mile 243 and tunnel #2 was around mile 1,400.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

There was a C&NW tunnel at Tunnel City Wisconsin which was just north of CMSP&P tunnel #1. It collapsed in 1973 and the C&NW got trackage rights over the Milwaukee Road through the tunnel which continued on to Winona Minnesota. Union Pacific still uses these rights.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=11&Z=15&X=1735&Y=12188&W=1

Why go to all the trouble to build such a short tunnel? Wouldn't it be just as easy to excavate it?

[jeffhergert]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by Chris30

QUOTE: By: Murphy Siding:
Is there a UP equivilent of the Falcons? It sounds like a good program that was a little before it's time.

ZCSLT - High priority intermodal, Canal St, Chicago, IL to Lathrop, CA (Sometimes this train is symboled as ZCSOA for Oakland, CA). A lot of orange Schneidner trailers. Used to see this train roll through Elmhurst, IL at @1:30pm
ZLTCS - Lathrop, CA to Canal St, Chicago, IL

ZCSSC - Canal St, Chicago, IL to Salt Lake City, UT. A lot of UPS trailers. Used to see this train roll through Elmhurst, IL at @9:45pm.
ZSCCS - Salt Lake City, UT to Canal St, Chicago, IL

CC

Good that the tradition carried through, but the name doesn't have quite the *cool* factor as "falcon"[;)]

The name sort of carries over. The crews and dispatchers refer to the Z trains has "birds." One dispatcher a few years ago used the term, "super chicken." Heard that the other day, the first time in quite a while.
Jeff

[nanaimo73]

There was a C&NW tunnel at Tunnel City Wisconsin which was just north of CMSP&P tunnel #1. It collapsed in 1973 and the C&NW got trackage rights over the Milwaukee Road through the tunnel which continued on to Winona Minnesota. Union Pacific still uses these rights.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=11&Z=15&X=1735&Y=12188&W=1

[Chris30]

QUOTE: By: Murphy Siding:
Did CNW have any tunnels online?

Only one that I know of. It was on the Madison to LaCrosse line in Wisconsin. The tunnel was near Sparta & Elroy (somewhere in that area). The line is no longer a through route and service ends at Reedsburg. The line is now operated by Wisconsin Southern.

CC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Did CNW have any tunnels online?

Yes. I can think of four. One on the Old Line a little north of Elroy, WI and then three on the route to La Crosse that branched off the Old Line at Elroy.

[Murphy Siding]

Did CNW have any tunnels online?

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Chris30

QUOTE: By: Murphy Siding:
Is there a UP equivilent of the Falcons? It sounds like a good program that was a little before it's time.

ZCSLT - High priority intermodal, Canal St, Chicago, IL to Lathrop, CA (Sometimes this train is symboled as ZCSOA for Oakland, CA). A lot of orange Schneidner trailers. Used to see this train roll through Elmhurst, IL at @1:30pm
ZLTCS - Lathrop, CA to Canal St, Chicago, IL

ZCSSC - Canal St, Chicago, IL to Salt Lake City, UT. A lot of UPS trailers. Used to see this train roll through Elmhurst, IL at @9:45pm.
ZSCCS - Salt Lake City, UT to Canal St, Chicago, IL

CC

Good that the tradition carried through, but the name doesn't have quite the *cool* factor as "falcon"[;)]

[Chris30]

QUOTE: By: Murphy Siding:
Is there a UP equivilent of the Falcons? It sounds like a good program that was a little before it's time.

ZCSLT - High priority intermodal, Canal St, Chicago, IL to Lathrop, CA (Sometimes this train is symboled as ZCSOA for Oakland, CA). A lot of orange Schneidner trailers. Used to see this train roll through Elmhurst, IL at @1:30pm
ZLTCS - Lathrop, CA to Canal St, Chicago, IL

ZCSSC - Canal St, Chicago, IL to Salt Lake City, UT. A lot of UPS trailers. Used to see this train roll through Elmhurst, IL at @9:45pm.
ZSCCS - Salt Lake City, UT to Canal St, Chicago, IL

CC

[Anonymous]

Well with the HOTTEST Train that runs though town eveyday should be considered as such........
Allan.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by up829

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding
[
What were the falcons?

Thanks

The Falcons were scheduled high speed run-through TOFC/COFC trains. I believe the service started in the early to mid 70s. Wood Street was used as the terminal because it was close to the city with good access from nearby expressways. There were cutoff times for trucks and the trains left on time with whatever they had. CNW did a really good job marketing the service and it was very successful.

When double-stack serviice started, Wood Street and an old B&O yard adjacent to it were turned into Global One.

Is there a UP equivilent of the Falcons? It sounds like a good program that was a little before it's time.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding
[
What were the falcons?

Thanks

The Falcons were scheduled high speed run-through TOFC/COFC trains. I believe the service started in the early to mid 70s. Wood Street was used as the terminal because it was close to the city with good access from nearby expressways. There were cutoff times for trucks and the trains left on time with whatever they had. CNW did a really good job marketing the service and it was very successful.

When double-stack serviice started, Wood Street and an old B&O yard adjacent to it were turned into Global One.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by farmer03

Maybe someone could give me a brief explanation of what/who Japonica was?

Japonica Partners was a group of "corporate raiders" who made a lot money off an attempted hostile takeover of CNW in the late 80's. It does sound like the name for a Steven Spielberg movie though,doesn't it?[;)]

[Anonymous]

Maybe someone could give me a brief explanation of what/who Japonica was?

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

I recall there was an article in Trains (late 70's) that gave a in depth look at the Falcons.

It was in the form of the writer riding the Falcon from Chicago to the handoff to the UP.

Might be good looking up for more historical info for you CNW fans.

It might have been titled "Route of the Falcons" or "Where Falcons Fly" something like that.

ed

What were the falcons?

Thanks

[bobwilcox]

QUOTE: Originally posted by up829

Perhaps reroute is the wrong word and I should have said shifted? In any case, during the late 60s UP was short-hauling itself over the CB&Q via Grand Island ...


Regarding the buyout...

The UP-Q route provided very good service with pool train crews working between Lincoln and N. Platte! However, once the BN merger took place the UP became uncomfortable with a connection that also served Oregon and Washington.

The C&NW managers who did not go to work for the UP did very well financially on their stock and 401-k. The CNW had a very rich, performance based, 401-k for non-agreement employes.

[MP173]

I recall there was an article in Trains (late 70's) that gave a in depth look at the Falcons.

It was in the form of the writer riding the Falcon from Chicago to the handoff to the UP.

Might be good looking up for more historical info for you CNW fans.

It might have been titled "Route of the Falcons" or "Where Falcons Fly" something like that.

ed

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Chris_S68

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding
Are you saying CNW opened Global 1? I thought UP did?

Global One/Wood street = CNW
Global Two/Proviso = CNW
Global Three/Rochelle = UP

Thanks for the info. I guess I knew that, must have had a brain fade or something.[D)]<<< just pretend that is Bart Simpson saying "doh".

[Chris_S68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding
Are you saying CNW opened Global 1? I thought UP did?

Global One/Wood street = CNW
Global Two/Proviso = CNW
Global Three/Rochelle = UP

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by up829

QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox

QUOTE: Originally posted by up829

UP rerouted much of it's traffic ..

The UP or any other railroad does not have traffic to reroute. The person paying the freight routes the traffic. There are no exceptions except for a emergency situation such as a derailment or a flood.

Perhaps reroute is the wrong word and I should have said shifted? In any case, during the late 60s UP was short-hauling itself over the CB&Q via Grand Island to avoid the CNW Omaha line into Chicago. Once Heineman was gone, CNW did major repairs to the line, opened the Fremont cutoff and as you mentioned in another post, relations and traffic improved greatly. Some other things CNW did that made it desireable to UP was the opening of Global 1 at Wood street , development of Intermodal business, the Falcons. etc. The line was aleady double-track and capable of high speed without needing major re-alignments like the RI and Milw routes would have required.

Regarding the buyout, I seem to recall that UP owned a big chunk of non-voting stock as part of the coal line deal. They were also a major player in the Blackstone Group which served as a white knight against the Japonica bid. I believe they owned something like 30% of the stock at the time of the buyout and probably controlled more through other partners in Blackstone.

IMHO both roads ultimately benefited. The partnership with UP in the coal line saved CNW from becoming just another granger, while the Omaha line continues to be the vital eastern part of the Overland Route, just as it has been since the beginning.

Are you saying CNW opened Global 1? I thought UP did?

[bobwilcox]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

As part of the BN merger, CNW was granted (?) a *Gateway* to the BN at Oakes, N.D. Did they use this? And, did it do them any good? Of course, the line is gone now.[:(]

Thanks

It was useful for lumber roller cars consigned to Marshalltown, IA. The CNW's lumber market manager, Don Cape, looked upon it as something for nothing so why not?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox

QUOTE: Originally posted by up829

UP rerouted much of it's traffic ..

The UP or any other railroad does not have traffic to reroute. The person paying the freight routes the traffic. There are no exceptions except for a emergency situation such as a derailment or a flood.

Perhaps reroute is the wrong word and I should have said shifted? In any case, during the late 60s UP was short-hauling itself over the CB&Q via Grand Island to avoid the CNW Omaha line into Chicago. Once Heineman was gone, CNW did major repairs to the line, opened the Fremont cutoff and as you mentioned in another post, relations and traffic improved greatly. Some other things CNW did that made it desireable to UP was the opening of Global 1 at Wood street , development of Intermodal business, the Falcons. etc. The line was aleady double-track and capable of high speed without needing major re-alignments like the RI and Milw routes would have required.

Regarding the buyout, I seem to recall that UP owned a big chunk of non-voting stock as part of the coal line deal. They were also a major player in the Blackstone Group which served as a white knight against the Japonica bid. I believe they owned something like 30% of the stock at the time of the buyout and probably controlled more through other partners in Blackstone.

IMHO both roads ultimately benefited. The partnership with UP in the coal line saved CNW from becoming just another granger, while the Omaha line continues to be the vital eastern part of the Overland Route, just as it has been since the beginning.

[Murphy Siding]

As part of the BN merger, CNW was granted (?) a *Gateway* to the BN at Oakes, N.D. Did they use this? And, did it do them any good? Of course, the line is gone now.[:(]

Thanks

[Murphy Siding]

I seem to have *lost* the post from BNSF railfan about the abandonded CNW track north of Hooper, Neb. (Insert "duh" smilie here). Are you speaking of the section that is used by the Fremont and Elkhorn Valley (?) tourist railroad?

[Chris30]

The UP had interests in the CNW system other than the CNW's portion of the Overland Route:
-Belvidere Sub that serves a large Chrysler Plant (orig G&CU main)
-Harvard Sub that serves a large GM plant in Janesville, WI
-UP has kept all of the lines that serve the Waukegan, Pleasant Prarie & Sheyboygan coal plants.

CC