Railroaders ideas to improve crossing safety

[edblysard]

Iceman, dude,
dont let this guy get to you, he dosnt live in the real world anyway. Bet you he is a paralegal for that ambulance chaser who's web site he keeps promoting. Weird, that lawyer thinks having Ralph Naders Green Party endorse him is a plus...Hey, you know what a paralegal is, dont you, someone too stupid, or too lazy to pass their states bar exam. They wanted to be lawyers, but just cant hack it. Everytime you respond to his assinine posts, you just offer him the attention he seeks.
He is one of those who feel that everyone else is responsible for his safty, except himself. I bet you if the woman who sued McDonalds hadn't won there, she would have sued the auto maker for not installing a sturdy enough cup holder to prevent her kids from knocking over that cup of unreasonably hot coffee. Dont know about you, but where I come from, cold coffee sucks. All the grown ups here expect coffee to be hot, and I know if I spill it on myself, it will burn me. I also know enough to make my kids behave in the car, and am smart enough to put things like hot coffee, sharp knives, and firearms somewhere where the little kids cant get to them. Notice this guy keeps using lawyers catch phrases like "unreasonably" hot? Thats lawyer speak for, "yes, we know coffee is suppost to be hot, we just want to sue you, thats our business, so the best we could come up with is "unreasonably" hot. So I guess if this coffee was a few degrees colder, there would have been no suit? How hot is "unreasonably" hot? 180*F? 230*F?
Is obvious that this person has adopted the mind set of most religous fanatics, in that hes right, and if you dont agree with him, your wrong and your evil. He gets uptight when someone calls him something he feels is insulting, but didnt he just call all of us railroaders murders? He acts all suprised that I would take offense to that. His actions show that, because he lacks information on both sides of a issue, and only wants to see his side anyway, the only recourse he has is to call you names, he lacks the skill, knowledge, or common sense to debate any issue intelligently, so he resorts to childlish name calling to get the attention he wants. Treat him the same way I treat my fifteen year old, when she acts like a twerp to get attention, ingnore him, it bugs the heck of people like them. As long as you respond to his twerpey, one sided, ill informed and inflammatory drivel, he has a forum to present his fanatical garbage in. If you ingnore him, maby he will go to another site, like Toys 'R' Us, where he really belongs, and pester them about unreasonably, and ultra dangerous toys.
Stay Froast Iceman...
Ed

[Anonymous]

Ed and everyone,
While it would amount to hearsay, this person could use things that are posted here to litigatory advantage, i.e. "This is wht railroaders are talking about". Or it could be used in an adverse public relations ploy. Everyone be careful, I believe this person is watching all these types of posts. He also doesn't mind being provacative or making pointed comments, absurd though they may be. Once again he seems to be using profanity. Ed, your comments to ignore this person, no matter what is said, are still valid.
Regards and have a safe day. gdc

[edblysard]

Point taken, subject closed.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[MP57313]

I am not with OLS, but a former colleague does work with them in Southern California. He had been displaying a poster will a grouping of snapshots showing risky behavior (man acarrying a bike over a stopped train at a crossing) and fatal results (smashed car and a body covered by a sheet), and several more on the same subject.

He is now forbidden from showing that poster because it could be too disturbing if one of the victim's family members or friends happened to see the pictures.

As for preventing accidents...four quadrant gates could help, but just in the past week a bicyclist rode around these in South L.A. and has hit and seriously injured.

As for railfans getting killed on the right of way...that is rare, but sometimes the unexpected happens. Years ago there was an article (in Trains) where a photographer in double-track territory had set up on one track, expecting the train to come on the other, and they "guessed wrong" because they didn't know the other track was temporarily closed for maintenence.

For changing behavior...good luck! But one thing I noticed in the Denver area, for some spur lines they use normal traffic lights instead of grade crossing signals and gates. Car drivers are more familiar with regular traffic lights so maybe people are more likely to stop for a red light than at a rail crossing.

[wabash1]

and in your opinion you might be right but if you ever get a chance to ever ride up front and see what is going on well then you change your attitude. in your car how many times do you stop when you see someone about to pull out in front of you or does pull out in front of you. ill answer that for you .... never you raise your foot off the gas. and cover the brake. but you didnt stop. do that next time full stops. couse when you get the air on a train that is what will happen a full stop at every crossing. I have not been to train wrecks we dont run trains into each other on our division. but i have been to car vs train and truck vs train and tresspasser vs train. first hand. and after 20 years in transportation no accident is pretty. You insist on thinking as most people do that we have control of they way people are going to act at crossings and that we can stop or steer out of your way, or even get your mode of transportation out of the path of us. in reality we cant. that is why they call them acidents couse someone made a mistake ( the person trying to beat the train) i have never heard of anyone going out and having a on perpose. Now to answer your first statement, yes i have had family mebers killed by drunk drivers. Did i try to shut the breweries down did i have the bars closed down nation wide did i sue all the places that sell this product. No. And it is not the best part of my day when we hit someone at a crossing either. It sucks to be truthful. To me all the people that bash us railroaders are like the people who bash cops who haft to make that life or death choice and shoot someone. the man they are chasing has 7 felonies has a gun and points it at a cop they shoot and kill him. Now the community is outraged couse someone got killed the guys mom is on tv saying " he was a good kid never did anything wrong and the police shoot him, he was running couse he was scared" i be scared to if i was going to jail for killing the clerk at the gas station after robbing him and about to go to prison. Well you judged me and even called me names but before you judge me or anyone else take a ride your eyes will be opened for you.

[wabash1]

Ed and gdc

in regards to the aboved mentioned statements about the coffee and other things. I have come to a conclusion. I just bought a pair of boots and they made my feet hurt. there was no warning in the box that said that until these are broke in that there will be no dicomfort to my feet. I am now looking for a lawyer to take my case for profit against the manufacture of these boots for making my feet hurt and costing me sleep pain and anguish not to mention a day off from work, the possible blisters i might get if i continue to wear them. 1.5 mil should be enough.

[edblysard]

Where did you buy thoses boots, and do they have another pair in the same kind if box?
Ed

[edblysard]

Great idea, sounds like common sense.
Ed

[corwinda]

I know of an interesting crossing setup in Springfield Oregon. A crossing (On the spur to a major paper plant) has normal crossing gates, and the road has an intersection with a traffic light a hundred feet or so on either side of the crosing. At least from the south (I haven't seen the north side when a train is on the crossing) the traffic light for through traffic stays red as long as the gates are down.

[Anonymous]

This is another great and simple soultion to a common problem. That is IF people stop for the red light. At least once a month I almost get clobered by morons FLYING thru red lights in West Allis Wi. Now tell a cop to patrol all the intercetions or rr X-ings....Good luck! At least stop lights work for most of us (the ones with common sense).
Icemanmike-Milwaukee

[Anonymous]

You do have a very valid point in that I haven't seen it through the front window of a loco. And I don't think that you can steer out of the way or control a driver. And I certainly don't bash engineers, I have the highest respects for the ones I know. It seemed to me that you were saying you would continue even IF you could prevent something, that is where I would apply my opinion. Not in a situation where you were 2 feet from a vehicle or nothing COULD be done. In 100% of the collsions ( I don't believe in accidents) I have responded to involving a train, it was the motorists fault; nothing could have been done by the engineer to prevent it. Finally, I wasn't judging you or calling you names. To revise my statement for clarity, would you or would you not agree, that it would take a very callused heart to proceed with an action that is likely to cause serious injury or death, to the person that is at fault to begin with, even if that action could have been stopped and prevented the entire situation?

[Anonymous]

Seems to me the nation wide consensus is that motorists are idiots or their are some very serious issues with rr crossings everywhere except where I live (TN)

[BRAKIE]

Guys,Since drunk drivers came up,I believe that should be the main concern.Drunk Drivers kill more people then the railroads do in a years time and most often then not these murders of the highways goes scott free after paying a small fine or spend very few days in jail.They get out get drunk drive their car/truck/suv and sooner or later they kill again..

[edblysard]

Sadly, society seems to accept such behavior, and the judicial system seems to reinforce such behavior by allowing convicted drunk drivers behind the wheel again. We view the use of a automobile as a right, not the privilege it really is. But, just like I have suggested with rr crossings, if you dont like how the court deals with them, or dont think the laws are correct, then write your elected officals. Get your friends to write them too. Only if we, the private citizen raise our concerns repeatedly to those we elect, key word there, elect, will things change. If you dont like the grade crossing in your neighborhood, write whoever has jurisdiction over it, and complain, complain loud and long, write a letter on your computer and save it, then send one each week until the person gets tired of hearing from you and does something. Ther has been lots of really great ideas brought up here, dont let them be nothing more than notes on a screen, or idle chat. Write that letter, make a phone call, get your wife, your friends, anyone you can think of to get involved. As long as all we do is complain, without taking any action, no matter how small, then nothing will change.
You all stay frosty,
Ed

[wabash1]

Not being able to read your mind or you read mine. (and other post also) you didnt relize i was talking about the gate crashers. I with out hesitation would big hole my train if i saw a child walking on the rails or scared to move couse of fear and could not get out of the way. or someone stuck on the rails and couldnt get off even if ( and this has happened) 2 cars trying to beat me at a crossing have a accedent in my path i will big hole the train and try and stop. But if you are obviously playing checken with me( this does happen) or trying to beat me (most get away with this) then i wont even reach for the brakes. i hope this clears things up.

The problem with writing is you cant tell the emotions or the true meaning of the authors words or statement it is your mind set that makes it what you want it to be.

[wabash1]

Texas..........lol

[wabash1]

Larry since it was brought up and i dont want to take away from the original reason of this post i will only say this, I had to be in court one morning over a minor traffic issue. and while waiting my turn to beg the judge not to fine me( i lost) I had the privladge of listening to the dui cases the one lawyer was pleading this guys case the judge gave him a trial date and the lawyer said he could not make it couse he was to be in court with the same guy and same judge for this guys 3rd dui case. this perliminary hearing was for the guys 8th dui. Then the case before mine was a girl who was getting ready to go to work but had her mom blocked in with her car so she let her sister a 14yr old non lic driver move the car out of her moms way by backing on to the street letting her mom get out and then pulling in. (while she was in the shower) a cop see this and then tickets both girls one for operating a car with out a lics, the other for letting a non lic driver operate her car. and the drunk probley left in there car to go to the bar.

[Anonymous]

J,
Are you sure $1.5 Million is enough? There is apparently a great deal of emotional trauma you must have suffered, which of course is compensatory. Then there's the ramifications of interstate commerce in this terrible tragedy from which you've suffered immeasurably. If the boots came from Texas and you wore them in Illinois ...well, there you go, at least another Million.
Regards and have a safe day! gdc

[Anonymous]

I completely agree with everything you said. And yes it does clear things up. Thank you for being patient and considerate enough to elaborate on what you said without taking offense. It seems some folks on here are just here to start trouble. I am here to get a little more education and to get a few different perspectives, as I try to do with all my interests. I hope you won't take offense if I ask questoins that seem obvious to real rr's, or ask you to elaborate and/or clarify, that's how I learn. Thanks again.
Bud

[edblysard]

HA HA HA, and you were warning me???
No, really..
Ed

[Anonymous]

It would appear that Ed has mastered the profanity and insulting remarks. I'm having a little trouble finding mine in my posts. Are you sincere when you say "have a safe day"? Does that apply in all situations?
Mike

[Anonymous]

your arrogance oozes through in your posts. If we were all as brilliant as you then there would be no need for lights or gates we would just know when a train is coming

[Anonymous]

You are over qualified to be an engineer. Please tell me how you read there minds to know if they are playing chicken or just don't see you? I would love to know that. Would you consider emergency blasts of the horn or would that be an unreasonable request? Very interesting.....

[Anonymous]

And yet AGAIN......I get attacked! Thanks for your long distance admeration....I hope the editors enjoy it as much as I do. Why do we let this guy keep ranting and raving about personal issues? Last time I checked there where a set of rules that we have to follow and respect............Please do so.
Icemanmmike-Milwaukee

[Anonymous]

Compared to you and Ed, my posting smells like roses. I just do it out of brotherly love and sadness for your lack of compassion for the people who are not trying to play chicken with a train. I wi***he editors would take notice of the profanity and insulting remarks, but that would keep you guys from posting the pro-railroad point of view. So much for that idea

[Anonymous]

To the Editors and Iceman(measure of compassion?)
Lets flash back to some wonderful statements from Ed:
Iceman, dude,
dont let this guy get to you, he dosnt live in the real world anyway. Bet you he is a paralegal for that ambulance chaser who's web site he keeps promoting. Weird, that lawyer thinks having Ralph Naders Green Party endorse him is a plus...Hey, you know what a paralegal is, dont you, someone too stupid, or too lazy to pass their states bar exam. They wanted to be lawyers, but just cant hack it. Everytime you respond to his assinine posts, you just offer him the attention he seeks.
He is one of those who feel that everyone else is responsible for his safty, except himself. I bet you if the woman who sued McDonalds hadn't won there, she would have sued the auto maker for not installing a sturdy enough cup holder to prevent her kids from knocking over that cup of unreasonably hot coffee. Dont know about you, but where I come from, cold coffee sucks. All the grown ups here expect coffee to be hot, and I know if I spill it on myself, it will burn me. I also know enough to make my kids behave in the car, and am smart enough to put things like hot coffee, sharp knives, and firearms somewhere where the little kids cant get to them. Notice this guy keeps using lawyers catch phrases like "unreasonably" hot? Thats lawyer speak for, "yes, we know coffee is suppost to be hot, we just want to sue you, thats our business, so the best we could come up with is "unreasonably" hot. So I guess if this coffee was a few degrees colder, there would have been no suit? How hot is "unreasonably" hot? 180*F? 230*F?
Is obvious that this person has adopted the mind set of most religous fanatics, in that hes right, and if you dont agree with him, your wrong and your evil. He gets uptight when someone calls him something he feels is insulting, but didnt he just call all of us railroaders murders? He acts all suprised that I would take offense to that. His actions show that, because he lacks information on both sides of a issue, and only wants to see his side anyway, the only recourse he has is to call you names, he lacks the skill, knowledge, or common sense to debate any issue intelligently, so he resorts to childlish name calling to get the attention he wants. Treat him the same way I treat my fifteen year old, when she acts like a twerp to get attention, ingnore him, it bugs the heck of people like them. As long as you respond to his twerpey, one sided, ill informed and inflammatory drivel, he has a forum to present his fanatical garbage in. If you ingnore him, maby he will go to another site, like Toys 'R' Us, where he really belongs, and pester them about unreasonably, and ultra dangerous toys.
Stay Froast Iceman...
Ed

Now there is some positive remarks, still love ya Ed. But please wake up to reality.
Mike

[edblysard]

Think I struck a nerve?
Iceman, do what I am going to do, ingnore him.
Not worth the effort anymore, waste of my time and this forums space to even try, waste of your time too.
Stay Frosty
Ed

[Anonymous]

Trust me you haven't struck a nerve. It will take a lot more than that. Hope you guys at least will be more aware of the possible hazards as you travel across your lines. I noticed quite a few things on the tracks where I live both good and bad. On a positive note someone has acknowledged a sight distance problem at a passive crossing and taken care of it and an intersection that would of required you to stop on the tracks if the light was red was realigned to put the traffic lights before the tracks. Progress, thats all we want, both from the Gov. and the railroad industry. Take care guys and be a positive light in an otherwise dark world.
Mike

[sooblue]

It's to bad that people have to get out their flamethrowers and clutter up a perfectly good forum topic with lots of potential ideas worth exploring. If anyone has kept a list of the ideas presented so far it would be nice to list them in a reply. I don't have enough time to read all the posts and I just as soon not have to waste my time looking through the toasty ones.
There is no way to avoid the "FLAMETHROWER".
I've been crisped more than once, sometimes justly and sometimes unjustly, it's not the end of the world either way. Opinions are welcome but there is no reason to fan flames or to grab your own flamethrower and fight back. Has anyone been witness to "flamethrowers" at 40 paces? duels fought with flamethrowers have no winners only cinders.
That said:
We live in an era that is chock full of innovation that is way above what came out of the "industrial revolution". RRs had a BIG roll in the industrial revolution. You could say RRs are behind the times and need to catch up in a lot of areas. They need to embrace new technology. On the other hand the general public needs to remember that the RRs were here first and this country is still and always will be dependent on them. There isn't a better way to transport the goods of a nation than RRs. They make sense even in the 21 century. Closing Crossings in bad areas should be done, but that can't be done in all areas. If people won't stop for a crossing than they have to be forced to stop. But you can't do that in all areas either.
There will always be those who try to cheat. I feel bad for the train crews because there is nothing they can do but watch. The crews need a weapon to fight back with and the law needs teeth.
The best way in my opinion to deal with crossings is to enforce the law. Video transmitted to the engineer direct who upon seeing someone cheat could make a recording on board identifing the cheater. Light beams that when broken activate video and or spray marking paint that police upon seeing would be able to arrest the cheater.
Impounding the vehicle and comunity service than cru***he car right in front of there face and have a live broadcast each week so everyone can see it happen. Crossings are taken too lightly by the general public that's the real problem.
Sooblue

[Anonymous]

Being the conservative radical I am, I would have to agree with the car crushings. Perhaps for good measure a good lashing could be thrown in. I do happen to have some sniper experience also, perhaps a post near a "high problem" area is in order. I'm also thinking maybe we could just have the engineers personally, at their convenience, drag the law breaker out of their cars and kick the living sh** out of them whilst their children, spouse and parents watch. My services are obtainable for a small fee, usually personal satisfaction in hardhship cases. I can be reached at [e-mail]