Railroaders ideas to improve crossing safety

[wabash1]

Well i am not sure now. ill let my lawyers figure that out for me. im sure we can find a jury somewhere that can be lead to believe my story.lol

[wabash1]

it is not hard to do. if a tresspasser is standing facing you ready to bolt away and does so then its chicken if he is walking away from you and doesnt look back to see you couse he never heard you or the warning blast becouse they had ear phones on then its not chicken. as far as cars goes when the see you comming becouse they are driving right beside you and race you for the crossing that is stupid. if they are comming up the road and lights are flashing and they drive right up to the tracks look both ways and then stair at you judging your speed then take off that is stupid, and one other observation is they stare at you as they drive in front of you and leave they do see you its hard not to. but i dont exspect you to take my word for it. as your mind is made up we are all mean people that kill people at road crossings. have a good day.

[sooblue]

POWER TO THE PEOPLE !!
Now we just need to get back our money from the other 100,000+ theifs.

Sooblue

[edblysard]

Humm, guess they didnt read the handbook on fire safty, or attend weenie awarness week. Maby they should sue the weinee maker for making ultra dangerous and unreasonably hot and flammable weeines.
Fire? what fire? dont need gortex anymore, the delete button works better.
Stay frosty, (pun intended)
Ed

[Anonymous]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CIV
FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 29, 1995 [phone]
TDD [phone]



CSX PAYS U.S. $5.9 MILLION TO SETTLE MISCHARGING CLAIMS

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- CSX Transportation Inc. will pay the
United States $5.9 million to settle claims the company
overcharged the government millions of dollars for railroad
crossing signals installed under a federal safety program, the
Department of Justice announced today.
Assistant Attorney General Frank W. Hunger, in charge of the
Civil Division, said the agreement settles claims that CSX
Transportation inflated labor hours for wiring signal houses;
failed to obtain the lowest price possible from third-party
vendors for parts; and overcharged for certain parts by selling
them at a profit to third-party vendors, then repurchased the
parts and charged the United States the higher repurchase price.
Funds for the railroad signal crossing equipment, which were
installed primarily in southeastern states, were provided under
the Rail Highways Crossing Program administered by the Federal-Aid
Highway Program of the Department of Transportation. The
federal government provides 90 percent of the money for the
program with the states providing 10 percent in matching funds.
Hunger said A. David Nelson, a former employee of CSX
Transportation, brought the matter to the government's attention
in February 1993, then filed a qui tam suit March 17, 1994, in
U.S. District Court in Jacksonville, Florida, under the False
Claims Act, 31 U.S.C.  3729.
A two-year investigation by the Department of
Transportation's Office of Inspector General and Florida
Department of Transportation confirmed the allegations.
In April 1993, CSX Transportation voluntarily refunded $2.1
million to 18 states as an adjustment to amounts billed for the
construction of signals at grade crossings and on January 11,
1995, CSX Transportation agreed to pay Florida and 11 of the 18
states $1.4 million for adjusted costs related to grade crossing
signals.
In addition to the money CSX Transportation has paid the
United States and the states, the company also must absorb all of
its expenses, including legal and accounting costs incurred in
this matter.
The settlement resolves any potential claims by the United
States against CSX Transportation under the False Claims Act for
fraud and under common law concerning allegations of cost
mischarging to the Rail Highways Crossing Program.
Pursuant to the False Claims Act, Nelson will receive
$1,180,000 of the settlement.
#####
95-520

[Anonymous]

Ah...I think your targeting the wrong person. I actualy drive for my job, not one to brag but I driven aprox 100,000 miles in the last 3 years 70,000 miles in my own car. Im the LAST person who looks at driving as a right. I had to wait till I was 18 to get my licence while all the lil punks where driving momys Explorer. What kind of moron would take driving as a privilage?

As for OLI I acualy put a link directly to their web sight on my own webpage....Acualy I thought of that idea and brought this thought to THIS discuision. I highly recomend every one in this discuision to visit their website - www.oli.org !!
Please go back, read this extremly long post and see how many good post there was. And yes it does get alittle ugly in parts, but this post was made (by ED) to bring out ways we can help. Now do you have any ideas or do you plan on attacking me some more?
Icemanmike-MILWAUKEE

[sooblue]

*lol*
Oh! The Girl Scouts burned down their clubhouse next door to my aunts house during a weenie roast.

Sooblue

[sooblue]

Hi,
You sound like you are informed and have done your homework. I tend to agree with you on points 1,2,and 3. I won't get into point 4.

In point one you mentioned "driving is not a right" Boy I hate that saying. Unless you live and work in downtown whatever and can walk every where driving isn't a right it's a necessity.
In 1903 it was a horse and buggy, in 2003 it's a car or truck. Money well spent would be for a much better driver ed. program, one that turns the student into a professional. Skid school even!
When you’re done with the course you ARE a professional. If you can't pass the full course than you get a restricted license.

Point 2, I used to make the steel pedestals for quadrant gates at a business called RR accessories
in Mpls. They don't cost that much to make or install, But they do when "government money" is involved. When the "government" finally stands up and says, "this is what the PEOPLE will pay and no more" than suddenly the cost overruns will magically disappear. If the "big boys" refuse to bid on a project screw them and give one of the small shops a chance. The "big boys" will come back on board.

Point 3, two thumbs up! However, until all forms of transportation are worked together to compliment each other there will only be more headbutting/buttheading *smile*

Everyone has their own agenda; working together should be the first agenda!

Sooblue

[edblysard]

I agree. Most crossings are not the property of the railroad anyway, we dont like things on the tracks, except trains. They belong to the local or state agency that supervises and designs streets. They do get federal funds for their projects, but fail to spend it on grade crossings. The FRA has a grade seperation and crossing closeure program, but its woefully underfunded also. In essence, the crossing belongs to the public who uses it, and if they dont like what devices are present, they should grip and complain to their elected represenitives. And so far, I have managed to get by with wet bath towels, after all, why bring gortex to a girl scout marshmellow roast?
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[sooblue]

Hi Ed,
Now I'm not just *lol* I'm clapping as well!!
I dawn gortex myself.

You could add a ultra high intensity noise that would have the same effect as fenceless dog control does, for walk arrounds. The noise would be so loud that the drivers waiting at the crossing would get out of their cars and smack the offender.
I think each of the Ideas that you listed are worth trying. I wonder how much it would cost. You could say it would be worth it if just one life and the crew trama associated with that death would be eliminated. Maybe crossings are what the government should help pay for... OH OH!
Sooblue

[sooblue]

*lol*-laughing out loud-
Can you be a conservative radical?
That means your so conservative that you appear radical to the conservatives...right?

What topic would you like? OH! I just remembered I have a topic! An update on welded rail.
Sooblue

[mudchicken]

Please add:

(1) For anyone caught running gates or involved in a train-auto while driving and being one of the 99% at fault: 5 year loss of driving priviledges, hit 'em where it really hurts. (Driving is not a "right" even though iceman probably has been mis-informed on this too).

(2)Public pressure on Congress to fund provisions of TEA-21 (and soon TEA-3) along with dramatically increasing the paltry federal Section 400/402 money that amounts to 2-3 Million a year for Grade Separation and crossing gate monies for each state. At $1.5 Million+ per bridge and $225,000 for a set of 4 quadrant gates, the Section 400 funding does not go far. TEA-21 had provisions for safety upgrades at crossings THAT NEVER WAS FUNDED. What IS really criminal is that monies were allocated on rails-to-trails and beautification. How that equates to "transportation efficiency" in ISTEA in the minds of the wonky politicians of the years since ISTEA came to be is a mystery to most. The money would have been better spent on safety issues.

(3) State transportation departments: change your name back to highway department until you can validly say you are funding the steel wheeled issues proportionately to the rubber tired crowd (i.e. the truck lobby)and you have legitimately trained railroaders (and not just "transit" with all its wannabe's) on staff - 80% can't say that.

(4) For Iceman and his ilk: Please talk to as many OLI presenters as you can (I vote for all). Your misinformed "cheap shots" should start to wear on your conscience after the first few. These folks are legitimately concerned about grade crossing safety, railroaders or not. I work around these folks on a regular basis, they are for real and they just got a new volunteer.

'nuf said,
Mudchicken


PS-the number of tresspassers killed each year is increasing while the number of vehicle accidents and fatalities drops. People continue to get dumber, except they're not behind the wheel anymore. Frightening.....Is the "sign entrapment guy" in the other post next?

[Anonymous]

“There are approximately 160,000 public highway-railroad intersections, of which only 20% have gates. And even when there are audible warning devices, they may 'fail' to meet their objective of alerting motorists to an oncoming train because of highway vehicle design and environmental factors.” As a result, more than 90 percent of all rail-related fatalities involved either grade crossings or trespassers, and of these deaths approximately 60 percent occur at crossings with only passive warning devices.” (NTSB Safety Study, July 21, 1998)
Sounds like everything is being taken care of.
20%, Wow!!!

[edblysard]

Hi Blue,
So far we have, Double arm gates, baricades both in the center line and at the edges of crossings, to prevent drive arounds. Hi intensity leds instead of plain reds lights, lighted amber Xs, also hi intensity, louder horns instead of bells at crossing, elmination of crossing where poss. drop down rods or baracaides on the underside of arms to prevent drive unders. Video surveilance, and citations based on that. Public education, school kids emphasised. All we need now are disposable flamethrower cartridges, in the industrial size. Think Wal Mart has any left?
Ed

[Anonymous]

What wonderful posts. You guys shed such a positive light on the insiders thoughts about the rail crossing problem that I have to wear a welding hood. I presume that you think Mr. Snow is a wonderful choice for the Feds as well. How does your Union feel about this? Same as you? Keep paying those dues...

[Anonymous]

Being the conservative radical I am, I would have to agree with the car crushings. Perhaps for good measure a good lashing could be thrown in. I do happen to have some sniper experience also, perhaps a post near a "high problem" area is in order. I'm also thinking maybe we could just have the engineers personally, at their convenience, drag the law breaker out of their cars and kick the living sh** out of them whilst their children, spouse and parents watch. My services are obtainable for a small fee, usually personal satisfaction in hardhship cases. I can be reached at [e-mail]

[sooblue]

It's to bad that people have to get out their flamethrowers and clutter up a perfectly good forum topic with lots of potential ideas worth exploring. If anyone has kept a list of the ideas presented so far it would be nice to list them in a reply. I don't have enough time to read all the posts and I just as soon not have to waste my time looking through the toasty ones.
There is no way to avoid the "FLAMETHROWER".
I've been crisped more than once, sometimes justly and sometimes unjustly, it's not the end of the world either way. Opinions are welcome but there is no reason to fan flames or to grab your own flamethrower and fight back. Has anyone been witness to "flamethrowers" at 40 paces? duels fought with flamethrowers have no winners only cinders.
That said:
We live in an era that is chock full of innovation that is way above what came out of the "industrial revolution". RRs had a BIG roll in the industrial revolution. You could say RRs are behind the times and need to catch up in a lot of areas. They need to embrace new technology. On the other hand the general public needs to remember that the RRs were here first and this country is still and always will be dependent on them. There isn't a better way to transport the goods of a nation than RRs. They make sense even in the 21 century. Closing Crossings in bad areas should be done, but that can't be done in all areas. If people won't stop for a crossing than they have to be forced to stop. But you can't do that in all areas either.
There will always be those who try to cheat. I feel bad for the train crews because there is nothing they can do but watch. The crews need a weapon to fight back with and the law needs teeth.
The best way in my opinion to deal with crossings is to enforce the law. Video transmitted to the engineer direct who upon seeing someone cheat could make a recording on board identifing the cheater. Light beams that when broken activate video and or spray marking paint that police upon seeing would be able to arrest the cheater.
Impounding the vehicle and comunity service than cru***he car right in front of there face and have a live broadcast each week so everyone can see it happen. Crossings are taken too lightly by the general public that's the real problem.
Sooblue

[Anonymous]

Trust me you haven't struck a nerve. It will take a lot more than that. Hope you guys at least will be more aware of the possible hazards as you travel across your lines. I noticed quite a few things on the tracks where I live both good and bad. On a positive note someone has acknowledged a sight distance problem at a passive crossing and taken care of it and an intersection that would of required you to stop on the tracks if the light was red was realigned to put the traffic lights before the tracks. Progress, thats all we want, both from the Gov. and the railroad industry. Take care guys and be a positive light in an otherwise dark world.
Mike

[edblysard]

Think I struck a nerve?
Iceman, do what I am going to do, ingnore him.
Not worth the effort anymore, waste of my time and this forums space to even try, waste of your time too.
Stay Frosty
Ed

[Anonymous]

To the Editors and Iceman(measure of compassion?)
Lets flash back to some wonderful statements from Ed:
Iceman, dude,
dont let this guy get to you, he dosnt live in the real world anyway. Bet you he is a paralegal for that ambulance chaser who's web site he keeps promoting. Weird, that lawyer thinks having Ralph Naders Green Party endorse him is a plus...Hey, you know what a paralegal is, dont you, someone too stupid, or too lazy to pass their states bar exam. They wanted to be lawyers, but just cant hack it. Everytime you respond to his assinine posts, you just offer him the attention he seeks.
He is one of those who feel that everyone else is responsible for his safty, except himself. I bet you if the woman who sued McDonalds hadn't won there, she would have sued the auto maker for not installing a sturdy enough cup holder to prevent her kids from knocking over that cup of unreasonably hot coffee. Dont know about you, but where I come from, cold coffee sucks. All the grown ups here expect coffee to be hot, and I know if I spill it on myself, it will burn me. I also know enough to make my kids behave in the car, and am smart enough to put things like hot coffee, sharp knives, and firearms somewhere where the little kids cant get to them. Notice this guy keeps using lawyers catch phrases like "unreasonably" hot? Thats lawyer speak for, "yes, we know coffee is suppost to be hot, we just want to sue you, thats our business, so the best we could come up with is "unreasonably" hot. So I guess if this coffee was a few degrees colder, there would have been no suit? How hot is "unreasonably" hot? 180*F? 230*F?
Is obvious that this person has adopted the mind set of most religous fanatics, in that hes right, and if you dont agree with him, your wrong and your evil. He gets uptight when someone calls him something he feels is insulting, but didnt he just call all of us railroaders murders? He acts all suprised that I would take offense to that. His actions show that, because he lacks information on both sides of a issue, and only wants to see his side anyway, the only recourse he has is to call you names, he lacks the skill, knowledge, or common sense to debate any issue intelligently, so he resorts to childlish name calling to get the attention he wants. Treat him the same way I treat my fifteen year old, when she acts like a twerp to get attention, ingnore him, it bugs the heck of people like them. As long as you respond to his twerpey, one sided, ill informed and inflammatory drivel, he has a forum to present his fanatical garbage in. If you ingnore him, maby he will go to another site, like Toys 'R' Us, where he really belongs, and pester them about unreasonably, and ultra dangerous toys.
Stay Froast Iceman...
Ed

Now there is some positive remarks, still love ya Ed. But please wake up to reality.
Mike

[Anonymous]

Compared to you and Ed, my posting smells like roses. I just do it out of brotherly love and sadness for your lack of compassion for the people who are not trying to play chicken with a train. I wi***he editors would take notice of the profanity and insulting remarks, but that would keep you guys from posting the pro-railroad point of view. So much for that idea

[Anonymous]

And yet AGAIN......I get attacked! Thanks for your long distance admeration....I hope the editors enjoy it as much as I do. Why do we let this guy keep ranting and raving about personal issues? Last time I checked there where a set of rules that we have to follow and respect............Please do so.
Icemanmmike-Milwaukee

[Anonymous]

You are over qualified to be an engineer. Please tell me how you read there minds to know if they are playing chicken or just don't see you? I would love to know that. Would you consider emergency blasts of the horn or would that be an unreasonable request? Very interesting.....

[Anonymous]

your arrogance oozes through in your posts. If we were all as brilliant as you then there would be no need for lights or gates we would just know when a train is coming

[Anonymous]

It would appear that Ed has mastered the profanity and insulting remarks. I'm having a little trouble finding mine in my posts. Are you sincere when you say "have a safe day"? Does that apply in all situations?
Mike

[edblysard]

HA HA HA, and you were warning me???
No, really..
Ed

[Anonymous]

I completely agree with everything you said. And yes it does clear things up. Thank you for being patient and considerate enough to elaborate on what you said without taking offense. It seems some folks on here are just here to start trouble. I am here to get a little more education and to get a few different perspectives, as I try to do with all my interests. I hope you won't take offense if I ask questoins that seem obvious to real rr's, or ask you to elaborate and/or clarify, that's how I learn. Thanks again.
Bud

[Anonymous]

J,
Are you sure $1.5 Million is enough? There is apparently a great deal of emotional trauma you must have suffered, which of course is compensatory. Then there's the ramifications of interstate commerce in this terrible tragedy from which you've suffered immeasurably. If the boots came from Texas and you wore them in Illinois ...well, there you go, at least another Million.
Regards and have a safe day! gdc

[wabash1]

Larry since it was brought up and i dont want to take away from the original reason of this post i will only say this, I had to be in court one morning over a minor traffic issue. and while waiting my turn to beg the judge not to fine me( i lost) I had the privladge of listening to the dui cases the one lawyer was pleading this guys case the judge gave him a trial date and the lawyer said he could not make it couse he was to be in court with the same guy and same judge for this guys 3rd dui case. this perliminary hearing was for the guys 8th dui. Then the case before mine was a girl who was getting ready to go to work but had her mom blocked in with her car so she let her sister a 14yr old non lic driver move the car out of her moms way by backing on to the street letting her mom get out and then pulling in. (while she was in the shower) a cop see this and then tickets both girls one for operating a car with out a lics, the other for letting a non lic driver operate her car. and the drunk probley left in there car to go to the bar.