Railroaders ideas to improve crossing safety

[Anonymous]

Your company has not done all it can do. With the help and support of law inforcement that side can be supported as well. It is a joint effort

[cabforward]

thanx to ed for inviting me to this site.. and compliments to him for the post he recommended to me.

**maybe new technology is the way to cope with "idiots du jour" (today's idiots), but i cant think of a better way to reduce crossing-violations than to have double gates at locations which appear to need them (no. of trains, speed, mult. tracks, etc.). hard barriers would be erected at the pedestrian end of the gates to prevent driving-around them. cameras would photograph violators caught-in-the-act. where cameras cant be used to prosecute a violator of the law, pictures could be used by the r.r. to create a database where the image of the vehicle can be stored and recalled later to compare when it appears the same vehicle has repeated the violation. a record of repeat violations by the same vehicle might persuade lawmakers to authorize law enforcement to prosecute violators.

it used to be safety measures were required to protect people against dangerous machinery. it probably started with the first mill that ground wheat next to a river. now, it has become a nightmare as business must protect people against their own stupidity: spilling hot coffee, eating fattening food, smoking.

europe has a very good gate warning system. i was there '61-'64. gates are lowered which have a rigid underhanging grillwork which prevents anything from passing underneath. many of these locations are manned by one person who physically lowers the gates. how their govt. can afford that is beyond me. because many of the gate structures are large and to conserve space, gates may swing onto the path of the roadbed when no trains are near. when a train approaches, the gate swings 90 degrees to block highway traffic on both sides. this is also a manned operation.

[Anonymous]

Here in Illinios they expiremented with a crash net. If censor's detected a car heading towards the tracks it would drop a net to try to stop the vehical. They could not get the net to drop fast enough so they canceled it. They spent a lot of money trying to get it to work. A taxpayer group got a little angry but when they found out that most of the funding was coming from the railroads they quited down. (The source of this was a article in the Chicago Tribune can not remember the date. It was in the transportation Sunday section). Did anyone else from Chicago recall that article?
TIM A

[Anonymous]

Hey Ed, great idea. He has the right to freedom of speech, but he doesn't have the right to be heard or listened to. Kudos.

As for what to do now? Getting stop signs plunked into unprotected crossings could probably be done fairly cheaply. In my area the corssings are almost 100% gated, and there it's an issue of violators. In that case I think it's an issue of enforcement from the police. I'd usggest a letter pointed towards the city mananger, or in rural areas, to the Sheriff's office, asking what the law is regarding crossings, i.e. is it a ticektable offense? If it is *not*, a pu***o make it one would not be difficult. (Have you ever heard of a local government turning down an idea for another $500 ticket?)

Getting middle lane barriers built is cheap too. In Oregon, it's the law if the road is a three laner. To get them installed, target roads which are busier, and talk to the City Engineer, or to the Land Use & Transportation driector (or equivilant) in your local county.

Also, try contacting the state DOT and asking for the Rail Division. You can probably get a contact there and ask what programs your state has for grade crossing improvements. They are usually a very friendly lot.

It's going to be easier to get improvements made to a road if it has high traffic, or if it is near a school, BTW.

Best,

Alexander Craghead
Portland, Oregon, USA

[edblysard]

Hey Alexander,
A funny thing happened to me today, and durn it, just after I told everybody I wouldnt respond to that guy again. It seems a crossing, just at the south end of our receiving tracks, was newley desiginated by the local school district as the crossing the school buses have to use to serve a small neighborhood tucked away between two major roads. Because, and get this, its safer than using the crossings at the major intersections, because of the gate crashers running around the buses to beat the trains...this crossing has never had and type of protection device, ever, because it was on PTRA property, and only lead to a access road behind our tracks. Three years ago, the city connected a side street to it, but refused to put a protection device in, as the road "saw little if any traffic except railroad personel". And of coures, everyone who lived in this small neighborhood has used this crossing ever since. So we got in the habit of dragging past the crossing, and allowing the people in the neighborhood to get by when we drag a switch cut out. We even flag the crossing, and will wait till they get by before shoving back to the yard. That idea came from our callous, arrogant and uncaring General Manager. Well, surprise, after two years or so, the school district decided the un-protected crossing was safer than the one with the gates and bells, not because of trains, but because of the drivers. After we heard of this, us uncaring brutes talked to the city ,our member lines, and the school district. So, at our expense, with the city planners blessing, lo and behold, as of today, this crossing has a brand spanking new double arm gate on both sides of the track, with cameras to record gate crashers, lights, bells and and a new concrete crossing pad and approach at track head height, along with several new warning signs on both approaches to the crossing. You wont belive how much I want to tell that guy to park it where the sun dont shine.
What a uncaring, ingnorant bunch we are.
Ed

[Anonymous]

Oh man. I know, and what seems all the worse is that basically the city, for putting in the road, "forced" the company into an improvement, i.e. created a situation that needed a resolution. It reminds me of when Portland regraded the road in front of my grandparent's house many many many years ago. By taking down the grade, they stranded the garage, and the car in it, ten plus feet above the new road! Typical thinking, alas.

Locally my city, (not Portland, but a burb to the SW,) wants to pu***hrough two new roads accross the railroad tracks, even as those tracks are expected to see a four fold increase in traffic over the next 5 years. They don't see why ODOT Rail and the railroad oppose their idea, and they think that an overpass is just foolish over-reaction.

Cameras to catch gate crashers? Hmm... a not unappealing idea....

~Alexander
Not an employee, relative, or stockholder. (Not that those would make a difference.)

[Anonymous]

You guys are right as usual!! I noticed in northern Illinois some of the X-ings acualy have an amber flashing 'X'. I dont know if is for the RR or us dumb motorist, but I do know it caught my attention. Most of the crosings in that area is realy "overdone" to get the point across..(example)..wabit tracks Duh TRAIN tracks. Another idea is to use a reflective saftey yellow painted on ALL X-ings going back to the "how the....did you not see this" theme. Remember SSS Sweet Simple Stupid!
Icemanmike-Milwaukee

[Anonymous]

Icemanmike, by chance did you read something in the paper up there about the netcatcher crossing system? ( I live in Buffallo Grove Ill. I heard they were still trying to make it work in Wis.) Also most of those improvments up there came about because several rail union's complained about the bad crossing's to several local official's.

[edblysard]

Hi guys,
seems we gathered a few good ideas here. So where do we go now? I like the Oprah and Dr Phil thing, due in part to the moms who would be watching. And the center barricade and the hard barricade at the sides or edges makes a lot of sense, along with the hanging rods from the gates to prevent drive unders. On the Oprah/ Phil thing, is there any footage of a grade crossing accident from the cab that you guys know of? I bet if someone could get it on the Oprah show, with a railroader explaining whats going on, a lot of moms would see, and understand. And you know how moms are....also, we need someone to find a list of state representatives, congressmen, senators, those who we could post their e-mail address so that anyone who wanted to could write. Now I know that they dont read their e-mail, one of their aids do, but if they got enough of it, the aids would bring it to their attention. And those of us who live near or know of a crossing that you think needs improvement, find out what representatives district it is in, and contact him/her. Explain what the problem is, and ask for their help. Post what their reply is, and tell them your going to do so. Public opinion is a powerful tool, if used repeatedly. And contrary to a certain persons belife that operation lifesaver is a fraud, contact the nearest chapter, or your local railroad, and see if you cant get them to do a demo at your local highschool, its about time for the drivers ed classes to begin. If we can get the attention of only one kid, well, thats one less we have to worry about. Keep sending ideas, so far, all of these are really good...
Ed

[Anonymous]

If there was a netcatcher system, someone would end up stealing the net for smelt fishing in Lake Michigain:). Sorry I have not heard a peep from anyone/thing. I guess we all are perfect drivers and its not a problem up here! Yea and the Brewers will win the world series!!
Icemanmike-Milwaukee

[Anonymous]

Dear Ed,
Lets do it!!! Its time for some public exposure to this, you are right on the money. Not enough people are aware of the dangers. Does anyone here know Oprah or Phil? Please give them a call and tell them about this.
Mike

[Anonymous]

Tests fail; rail crossings to work without safety net
Chicago Tribune; Chicago, Ill.; Nov 11, 2001; Nicole Ziegler Dizon, Associated Press;

[Anonymous]

Your attitude stinks, but on a positive note your general manager deserves a pat on the back. As far as the local government, well thats another story. Just remember when the election comes up. Sounds though that they redeemed themselves somewhat. Did I ever call you anything specific? As I recall I said that it is much higher than a blue collar problem. Time to start hounding Congress about corporate responsibility.
Mike

[Anonymous]

Yet again I get attacked? Just what is a kid to do. Mike we are talking up ways to improve safety and you come in here to aruge? Either assist or dont say anything. It would save us all a huge hassle of being distacted of the real issues at hand!
Hey Ed, Is it just me or do the bells on some RR X-ings seem to be quieter then they where 5 years ago? Two more ideas would be repace the flashing red lights with red strobe lights. Also there has to be away to use more of those air horns like they do in N. Illinois.
Icemanmike-Milwaukee

[Anonymous]

Statistics show the most effective crossing warning devices are cantilevered flashing lights combined with gates. If and when quad gates become more widely in use, they will probably usurp the cantilevers.
Have a safe day gdc

[edblysard]

Hi gdc,
Have you seen the anber lights mentioned in tims post?? I know I seem to notice the revolving hi intensity beacon light we have on the roof of our locomotives from a great distance, its white, almost the same as whats on police and emergency vehicles. Althought up close it may be too intense, a toned down version?
Ed

[edblysard]

They seem quiter to me also. Heres a good one for our friend. From the Southern Pacific Railroad, Eastern Region Timetable #7, effective sunday, october 29th, 1989. Page 70,under special instructions, "Rule 15. Lake Charles: City Ordinance prohibits sounding of engine whistle except where there is imminent danger of an accident. In observing this ordinance, engineer should sound whistle if in his judgement an accident may be prevented."
I guess they didnt like all that noise?
Of course, they would also sue the heck out of SP wheneven someone got hit. I am looking for more silly examples of us monsters trying not to protect people from themselves. By the way, does that make all crossings in Lake Charles ULTRA-HAZARDOUS? And by city ordinance at that! Oh, silly me, we must have bribed the city officals to let us not blow our horns, it would wake up you speeding engineers, blasting through the un mown right of way, not giving people the chance to judge if they have enough time to beat train to the crossings we all hear about. You know the goverment had to be in on this...
You stay frosty Iceman,
Ed

[Anonymous]

I've not seen one. gdc

[Anonymous]

Ugh, I know exactly what you mean here. The city gets complaints all the time from people about loud horns at night. Well would they rather have an increase in car crashes? Next they will want the Fire Department not to use it's sirens after 9pm!

Absolute lunacy. If a crossing gets a full barrier gate system, only then would I consider a "no horn" ordinance okay. But even then there must be provision for emergencies....

[edblysard]

Isnt that just about the nuttiest thing you heard of? So if your running long hood forward, and the engineer cant see the other side, wow, talk about dangerous. I also heard of a town here in Texas with a cerfew time for trains, I belive it was the am rush hour, although most samll towns in Texas, rush hour last about five minutes...I do know for a fact the a traffic cop in a little towm names Schertz, out side of San Antonio ticketed a train engineer for speeding, he radared him at a crossing, beat him to the next, blocked the crossing with his cruiser and ticketed him for exceeding the 30 mph speed limit in town. It went to a JP court, dismissed, but the cop stated the the crossing was city property, and the posted limit in the entire town was 30. The cop was known to have a grudge against the SP, seems his brother was dismissed, dont know what for. The conductor on the train worked here at the port when I hired on, when he finishes that story, everybody is about to bust a gut he tells it so well...
Ed

[Anonymous]

This one is off the rr topic but is right on the noise issue. Here there is one of the oldest race tracks in America "The Milwaukee Mile" in West Allis. The neighbors are complaining about the noise the race cars make. What noise isn't that music to your ears?? If the track was there when you moved in to your house, then what would make a person think it won't be there on race day? Sometimes I realy hate people..well at least the slow ones in the laft lane.
Icemanmike-Im in Milwaukee Im always frosty!!

[corwinda]

What I have noticed is that on newer crossings the bells only ring until the gates are all the way down. After that they shut off; leaving just the flashing lights. I think the red strobes would be worth an experiment

[Anonymous]

Red Strobes would be a good idea. We have some that are activated at intersections. You can't miss them. Why don't they have LED's instead of bulbs for the lights. LED's are brighter to the human eye and don't burn out.

[edblysard]

Partly due to the fact that the system in use now is so common, it works, its cheaper, and the designers know that the arms will, at some point, be run into by a car. LEDs of the type you speak of cost more to replace, and require more time to replace, plus the people who make the crossing arms and gate/ light post use the same parts in wayside signals, it cheaper to use common parts in all their products. Add it it lower voltage requirments of led would need a step down transformer, vs 120 volt light bulbs run off of city powerlines. Or the short version, its cheaper this way. If you want change, write you representive. As long as it economicaly to the manufactures advantage not to change, they wont. So apply a little political pressure, who know, we might get lucky.
Ed

[Jackflash]

Ed, I've been told by signal maintainers in the
past that the signals at crossings were low
voltage, it was a overlay system, 110 volts
to a battery charger to charge batterys,then a
low DC voltage to operate the system, this was
told to me a while back, I'm not a signal
maintainer, nor do I work with this kind of
equipment. Any maintainers out there who care
to add anything? jackflash

[edblysard]

They may be right, I have found a few bits here and there, and the bulbs in the arm lights seem to be 12vdc, has the same base as a #1156(brake light) automobile bulb, only the bulb was bigger.
Ed

[Jackflash]

Seems to reason, if the comercial power goes off
the signals will still work, a few times at least,
until the batteries run down. jackflash

[edblysard]

I think the battries are good for 24 to 48 hours. Dont know any maintainers either, but I will try to find out why the lower voltage bulbs. I think I know the answer, the element in lower voltage bulbs last longer, but I will ask anyway.
But you would think LEDs would last even longer, no carbonized element to burn up. It might be a cost/supply thing.
Ed

[Anonymous]

LED's offer very low power consumption and a signifigant increase in visibility and reliability. They would work out well with a floating DC power supply because with a loss of commercial power the time up would be longer as well. It probably does boil down to cost, but it worth a shot to look into. Who makes the equipment for the crossings. I was trying to find something on the web. I like the discussions about the dividers at the crossing to prevent drive arounds. I don't know why that isn't more common. It seems like a very good idea. Four quadrants are optimal, but dividers almost offer the same protection.

[csxns]

I have seen where people have torn up the dividers