British Railway Operations

[Anonymous]

Going to Cornwall from Canada this summer for a couple of weeks. What are the best rail fan locations to get a mixture of freight and passenger trains in the southwest? I will be driving due to the high cost of rail tickets for a family so any location does not have to be accessible by rail.

[Anonymous]

idhull. Cornwall eh?

There are various deals which can be had for family tickets, check websites of First Great Western and book ahead as far as possible.

If you want "freight" action - my answer is you will be very very hard in finding it. There is a little freight (China Clay) between Par and Fowey, however this is getting to be increasingly irregular and most of the other freight runs at night. In fact, Bristol and Westbury are probabley the nearest centres of freight to be honest. As for passenger trains, pretty darned frequent especially along the Devon Sea Wall (Dawlish - Teignmouth). The forecast is for a long hot summer here so this could an ideal location for a trip.

There are also plenty of heritage railways in both Devon and Cornwall to visit, as well as one just over the border in Somerset.

[daveklepper]

Trams are called streetcars or trolley cars in the USA and Canada, One characteristics that sets them apart from regular trains is the lack of train doors to go from car to car (even when coupled into two and three-car trains, mu or a motor with one or two trailers).

[Tulyar15]

I think 'must see's in Cornwall include the Liskeard - Looe branch and the Royal Albert Bridge at Saltash. All the trains to/from Cornwall have to uset that bridge nowadays so all the passenger and freight trains will pass over it.

[Simon Reed]

The Dutch have never used BR Class 20's. Strictly speaking they've never used Class 08 either - a derivative of Class 10 was built for NS.

At present ACTS are using some Class 58's, and at one point an open access company - LoversRail - was seriously considering ex BR class 31's although nothing came of this.

[Isambard]

Here's the Royal Albert Bridge as seen from the train last June.

http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=28724&cat=500&ppuser=3182

[:)]

[Hugh Jampton]

If youm goin to Cornwall be sure and visit the Bodmin and Wenford Railway.

http://www.bodminandwenfordrailway.co.uk/

[Anonymous]

Where are you going to base yourself id? First check out the following site...http://www.carfreedaysout.com/ - an excellent guide to the railways of Devon and Cornwall.

If driving remember that the roads in and out of the county (all three of them!) are uniformly rubbish and subject to severe congestion, especially the A30 across Indian Queens so build in extra time. Anyway if you are basing yourslef in the West of the County then the railway attractions are limited; I suggest

St Ives Branch. Lovely ride on a summers day with St Ives being a popular tourist destination. There is a park n ride service from Lelant Saltings with trains every 30 mins to to the Town. St Ives itself has an outpost of the Tate Modern to visit, there are pletny of beaches in the area (Carbis Bay) which are accessible by train. Another option is to go from St Erth if the traffic is bad. Incidentally, my advice is do not attempt to eat ice cream or your pasty on the sea front at St Ives. You will be attacked by the local birdlife.

To photograph trains then I suggest St Michaels Mount/ Marazion. The railway runs alongside the beach from there into Penzance. And you maybe able to get a good shot of the Castle in the bay in the background. Other would be to take a trip along the Fowey estuary and Golant, set your camera uo and wait long for a china clay trip out of the dries from Burngullow. Be warned. This traffic is drying up (groan) and is now down to one or two trains per day. That estuary is very well photographed and very scenic. Other branches in the area are the Falmouth and Newquay branches. Falmouth is the largest town in Cornwall and home of a maritime museum, it also sadly houses Penryn whoch is a hole. There is a service of 14 trains per day along a single track to the docks with a disused connection into the docks. The trip is quite scenic and there are connections at Truro off the mainline services. Newquay, the big Atlantic surf resort is served by 5 trains a day on saturday in high summer and 7 all stations during the weekdays. I suggest a ride along there...like going back in time.

There are some heritage railways in the "west" - the Bodmin and Wenford is one, the Lappa Valley (Narrow Gauge) is another and there is a group at Helston although they havent really got anything to see yet. More to the centre of the county there are heritage railways in the Launceston area, from memory one is NG one SG If I can remember.....


The tourist board is here...http://www.cornwalltouristboard.co.uk/... am on quick reply so missing out on all those lovely links.

[mhurley87f]

I'm surprised no-one's yet suggested the Gunnislake Branch. I thought it well worth the effort - stunning views of the Tamar and Valley from the Calstock Viaduct.

Hwyl,

Martin.

[Anonymous]

that's East Cornwall......hehehehhehe. Its on the website which I even urge to the Brits to visit.

[John Bakeer]

No one can be right all the time, if it wasn't the Dutch got the 08's and 20's? they definately made the trip to Europe. Further enlightenment would be welcome.
Keep an eye on <centralrailway.co.uk> they have the ca***o re-open a railroad from Bootle to the Chunnel via Woodhead and the Great Central line. They failed to get their act of parliament through last term because all available time was taken up by ALF's getting a ban on hunting hairy vermin enacted.
John B.

[martin.knoepfel]

Is the Great Central the railroad that has been built to Continental clearances. This would be interesting for through freight without specialised (smaller and lower) cars.

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by martin.knoepfel

Is the Great Central the railroad that has been built to Continental clearances. This would be interesting for through freight without specialised (smaller and lower) cars.

Yes, it will be built (if and when it ever gets the go ahead) to the Continental loading gauge, but a lot of it will use previously abandoned RoW if I'm not too mistaken.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cogload
On a personal note Cogload's brother has been accepted by First Capital Connect (Thameslink) as a trainee Driver (Engineer) for thier electric "tram" system from Bedford - Brighton. So good news and I would strongly advise everybody not to travel that route for a few years!

Is this the brother who takes all the train pictures? If so, I look forward to seeing his added collections.
(tram-[(-D])

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

QUOTE: Originally posted by martin.knoepfel

Is the Great Central the railroad that has been built to Continental clearances. This would be interesting for through freight without specialised (smaller and lower) cars.

Yes, it will be built (if and when it ever gets the go ahead) to the Continental loading gauge, but a lot of it will use previously abandoned RoW if I'm not too mistaken.

As I understand it, the GRAND CENTRAL line (not to be confused with Open Access operator Grand Central which has just been given the go ahed by the Rail Regulator to start a passenger service from Sunderland to London King's Cross) will use much of the track bed of the former GREAT CENTRAL from London to Sheffield. This was built in 1899 to continental loading gauge but closed in 1966. From Sheffield to Manchester it would use the Woodhead line (closed 1982, the original part of the Great Central line or Manchester, Sheffield & Lincolnshire as it called itself before it opened its London extension in 1899). This too was capable of taking continental size trains. In the 1948 loco exchanges the Woodhead line was one of the few non - Great Western routes on which GWR locos were able to operate. This was because as a result of original being broad gauge the GWR had a larger loading gauge than most (but not all!) railways in Britain and as a result built larger locos and rolling stock.

I gather than plan is that the Grand Central line will be built to even larged than continental loading gauge so that double stack container trains can be run. In the Woodhead tunnel this would mean having a single track in the centre of the tunnel to enable the necessay clearances to be provided. (The two running tunnels of hte Channel tunnel are in fact the same size as the Woodhead tunnel!).

[John Bakeer]

Sorry to seem pedantic, but it is 'CENTRAL RAILWAY' a detailed route plan(s) is/are on <cental-railway.co.uk/maps/map>giving details of the proposed route along with copious notes about the works involved.
It's just a matter of getting parliament to give the act floor time and of course geting it past the NIMBY's. They are all ready at it around Dukinfield, Ashburys, Droylsden etc.
Some of us are more a lert than others.
John B.

[Hugh Jampton]

http://www.central-railway.co.uk/route.htm seems to work better.

[Anonymous]

murphy. No not My brother. I think you are referring to Simon R.

[M636C]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

The Dutch have never used BR Class 20's. Strictly speaking they've never used Class 08 either - a derivative of Class 10 was built for NS.

At present ACTS are using some Class 58's, and at one point an open access company - LoversRail - was seriously considering ex BR class 31's although nothing came of this.

There are some class 20s recently returned from service with CFD in France, and I think that is caused the confusion. The Dutch had a large number of hood units that looked generally like class 20, but these were in fact licence-built US Whitcombs, at the time associated with Baldwin.

M636C

[John Bakeer]

I knew there was more CR stuff lurking somewhere.
John B.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cogload

murphy. No not My brother. I think you are referring to Simon R.

cogload: I believe it is Tulyar15, whose brother did the photo work.[:)]

[MStLfan]

What's the difference between a class 08 and a class 10?
greetings
Marc

[Simon Reed]

08 had English Electric power units, 10 originally had Lister - Blackstone power units.

It's "15's" brother who is the photographer. My brother is a bird-watcher although his partner commutes on Thameslink.

[MStLfan]

Well, then the dutch engines should be compared to the class 08. NS Class 500 and 600 had eec engines. The 15 class 700's were delivered from eec without engines and the got Thomassen engines after they arrived here.
By the way 501-510 were WD surplus and is it correct that the WD engines were based on a LMS engine?
greetings,
Marc Immeker

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by marcimmeker

Well, then the dutch engines should be compared to the class 08. NS Class 500 and 600 had eec engines. The 15 class 700's were delivered from eec without engines and the got Thomassen engines after they arrived here.
By the way 501-510 were WD surplus and is it correct that the WD engines were based on a LMS engine?
greetings,
Marc Immeker

Yes, I think that's right. The Dutch class 500 shunters are identical to the LMS ones (BR Class 11 - but they did not last long enough to carry Tops numbers; their BR numbers were in the 12xxx series (a 'D' prefix was added from 1957). The 600 class are identical to the BR class 08's which were developed from the Class 11. The main difference was larger driving wheels . (The Southern shunters were similar to the LMS ones but had larger wheels in order to give greater clearance between the coupling rods and the 3rd rails - I think that's why BR adopted the larger wheel size for the 08's).

Yes it is my brother's who's got the website - he's just added some more pics of S. Wales - http://www.roscalen.com/signals/index.htm

[Murphy Siding]

Tulyar15: I went and checked out the new pics on your brother's website, very nice indeed. He must get to do a lot of traveling, chasing that hobby. I notice from the pics, that, compared to American rail lines, these look pretty neat and clean. There is some overgrown vegetation, but missing is all the litter,weeds, graffiti,falling down buildings,junkyards,and general mess, that is prevelant on a lot of American routes. Is this true of British lines in general? Or, is the photohrapher just really good about cropping the messy parts out of the photos?

[John Bakeer]

Hi Murphy,
I travel around Greater Manchester a lot and find that generally the authorities try to keep the place tidy. If they gave up? The crap in our society would quickly turn it into an utter mess. Some parts are better than others probably like your place. I remember the state of the NY and Chicago urban railroads were pretty disgusting, but your authorities are fighting back against the grafity gangs.
We have plenty of laws against filth and pollution but the judiciary take a far too lenient line on transgressors (even if they are caught?), the law is virtually ineffective. I have been a Trains subscriber for over 20 yrs, before that Railway Magazine and have noticed that the majority of railroad pictures appear to be sanitized. But who wants to display his backside to the public?
I was once travelling home from Manchester to Glossop, when passing through a particularly rough area, a piece of spiked metal railing became embedded in the metal roof of the front car. an obvious attempt to kill the driver or/and others. If the criminal was caught? (I never found out!) He/She would have received a derisory sentence.
John B.

[Murphy Siding]

A Father's Day gift gone bad? One of my sons and I were in a used clothing store the other day. A featured item on an endcap was a pair of boxer shorts with a map of the railroads and station names of southeastern England. You never know when those would come in handy!?[;)]

[BR60103]

One of the British magazines used to publish pictures of how disgraceful some stations were.
It's always possible that the worst appearing sites are in locations where you wouldn't want to pull your camera out.

[Tulyar15]

In Birmingham (England) the inhabitants seem to regard their local rail lines as a tip. Mind you some years ago I was involved in a canal restoration project. They got these kids from one of the local rough estates to help and they got quiet into it. Then sometime afterwards I heard one of these kids had wound up in prison. It turned that what happened was a truck driver dumped a load of rubbish in a stretch of canal these kids had helped restore. Not surprisingly they tried to persuade the truck driver not to do this. When he ignored them and dumped his load his in the canal, the kids dragged him out of his cab and beat him up. Unfortunately a cop car happened to turn up just as they were beating up the truck driver so the kids got sent down.