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Gasoline Prices.

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Posted by sd452 on Saturday, April 16, 2005 5:58 PM
You Know I don't want to be a spoil sport or anything but what is the point of all of you complaning about gas prices. Oil is one of the hardest things to find on the face of the earth and we pay less than $3 a gallon. While we sit down and pay as much as $10 a gallon for bottled water which unless a nuclear bomb went off while I was slepping is the second most plentiful resource on the earth. So if your going to complain about the price of gas then complain about the price of water too. And as for sport stadiums over commuter rail systems look at the evening news when 15 min of a 30 min news program is Packers trainning camp reports it makes sense although really mixed up sense because people care more about sports than commuter rail systems. And here in Wisconsin at least 57cents of every gallon af gas is taxes more depending on what city.
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Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, April 16, 2005 8:10 PM
....Ok, I'll report my official {to me}, complaint about the price of bottled water...but just one little item about that....I don't have to buy it...But my vehicles do have to have the fuel we're discussing price wise....In all seriousness, I always thought bottled water has really been a rip off in price...As for complaining of fuel prices...That's up to the individual whether he cares to complain or not...Your choice. I personally think we're being ripped off....Oil Co. profits kind of show they are getting well with the latest prices.

Quentin

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Posted by markdbrungardt on Saturday, April 16, 2005 8:58 PM
New personal record, 47.62 to fill my Ranger @ 2.599/gal. Fallon, NV
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Posted by CSXrules4eva on Saturday, April 16, 2005 9:17 PM
Ok gas prises in PA went up. Well at least in my area I paid 2. 53 for 93 octane. But, than agian gas isnt too expencive for me because I have a 4cyl 2.5 L engine, that doesn't eat up gas.
LORD HELP US ALL TO BE ORIGINAL AND NOT CRISPY!!! please? Sarah J.M. Warner conductor CSX
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Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, April 16, 2005 10:17 PM
CSXrules4eva....Why the 93 octane in your 4cyl.....or does it require it....?

Quentin

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Posted by CSXrules4eva on Saturday, April 16, 2005 10:44 PM
Not really but I like to use a higher octane in my 4 cyl because the higher the octane rating the more restance the fuel is to engine knock or ping. I have a tip for I guess everyone here. Always look at your car manual use the octane rating or higher octane rating that what the manufacture recomends. Usually engines that are high compression, have superchargers or turbochargers use a high octane fuel. Please note this is for gasoline only, not diesel instead you would use Cetane ratings. I won't even get into that one. LOL
LORD HELP US ALL TO BE ORIGINAL AND NOT CRISPY!!! please? Sarah J.M. Warner conductor CSX
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 16, 2005 11:48 PM
$2.68 is the going rate for a gallon of low grade in sunny San Diego.

As for sports teams I say let them leave.If every city took this veiw they would all be alot better off. The citizens taxes would not be paying for ugly buildings with huge wasteful parking lots. The money instead could go to making the city better like improving parks, libraries, schools, fixing potholes, paying police and firemen, you know the boring stuff.

They should not get one cent of my tax money for a private stadium. If I wanted to go see a game I would have to pay $30 or some such to enter a building I helped pay for. No thanks. Those teams make $ hand over fist. They are moving into new stadiums and getting cities to pay for them and promising the world. In Fifteen years they will want a new stadium. Most of the fans come park watch the game and go straight home. They don't stay and spend money at places that would improve the city. The new Padres Petco (Taxpayer) Park was supposed to get fans to go to fancy restaurants but instead the games pay off for the sports bars. As far as most fans care the park could be on the moon instead of the middle of a city. The city itself is doing its best to pretend it is a mall anyway. All this and the Chargers say they will leave if the city doesn't pay for a new stadium. I will not miss them at all when they go. Don't let the door hit you on the way out Chargers. This is all just Bread and Circus stuff, fake blood sport to keep the people happy while they are paying big taxes and high gas prices. But at least our team won or (usually) lost.

The Jets stadium over the rail yard in Manhatten is a bad idea a waste of valuable space. I knew this was a relivant topic somehow.
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Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 17, 2005 7:47 AM
In the 70s after the gas crisis of that decade they came out with GASOHOL octane reading was 91 I think made from corn & gasoline. Once oil went back to normal it became unprofitable to make it. Now maybe the time we grow lots & lots of corn & the making cost today maybe less then a barrel of oil & whatever the % of corn in there brings us closer to self sufficency [:o)][:D][:)]

I have a 6 cyl Toyota & use 87 proof no knock. Also have a 4 cyl Honda use 87 proof no knock or pings also

You must be really rich to be able to afford hi test[:o)][:p][:)]

Originally posted by CSXrules4eva
[

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Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 17, 2005 7:53 AM
While this is also OFF TOPIC what is more amazing about the Jets stadium deal is the owner is the heir to the Johnson & Johnson fortune & is a billionaire several times over! [:o)][:)][:p]

Originally posted by emmaandy
[

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Posted by spbed on Sunday, April 17, 2005 7:55 AM
Inflation was a great problem when the spike in gasoline came in the 70s [:(][:(]

Originally posted by Modelcar

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Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, April 17, 2005 9:02 AM
...Yes interest rates skyrocketed to the range of 12 to 15%....CD's were really booming but it was not good for our well being. And the Crude price spike in the mid 70's was part of the problem that ignited inflation.....

Quentin

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Posted by DSchmitt on Sunday, April 17, 2005 4:21 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by goat

uzurpator- The Europeans use a different scale of octane and the numbers don't mean the same as in USA, it is very confusing realy and I don't much more about it.

Last time I was there you could still get "plum" and "sans plum", that is leaded or no leaded. But again apparently it is not real lead, but a lead substitute for older cars. But I don't know much more about it.



I found the following:

Gasoline - Octane Facts and Myths (Minnesota Dept of Commerce)

http://www.state.mn.us/mn/externalDocs/Commerce/Gasoline_Octane_Facts_102902052227_OctaneFacts.pdf

I found the following about the octane rating in Europe
http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/suzi/octane.pdf

Both say that there are two methods of determining the octane rating of gasoline: 1) the "motor method" 2) the "reasearch method"
The "research method" results in a higher number than the "motor method".

The octane number used in the US is an average of the results of the two methods. In Europe they use the "reasearch method" number.

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

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Posted by sd452 on Monday, April 18, 2005 11:37 AM
ok so lots of good ideas here but thats all they are ideas. Sorry spbed but I'll have to bash you GASOHOL idea right away. Yes it was made from a mixture of corn ethonal and gasoline. In fact it still is most aff the gas you buy in the US is 10 to 15% ethonal still. Makes gas cheaper but has some drawbacks one gallon os ethonal take about one acre of corn so with the amount of it that we would need would nessecitate making almost all of the US into a giant cornfield (as if Wisconsin doesn't have enough already). Also ethonal burns hotter than gasonline since it is a form of alcohol so the motor oil, valves, pistons, o-rings, and exahust manafolds on your car would have to be replaced. So unless your willing to convince everyone to spend several thousand dollars to have there otherwise perfectly good engine rebuilt or replaced ethonal is not a viable solution to the situation. However if the price of gas got high enough say around $15 a gallon then a synthetic gas produced from highly refined ethonal and several other plant by-products this will require more advanced refining plants however so convince the oil companies of that, and would also use several acres of crops for each gallon. So unless a car that runs on salt water is created or anyother good ideas come up gas is the most economical fuel for now. Plus over the past 50 years the price of gas has only gone up at slightly half the rate of inflation while not a guarantee of the future of gas prices it can be used as a rathe acurate estimate of future prices.
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Posted by rvos1979 on Monday, April 18, 2005 1:24 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by sd452

ok so lots of good ideas here but thats all they are ideas. Sorry spbed but I'll have to bash you GASOHOL idea right away. Yes it was made from a mixture of corn ethonal and gasoline. In fact it still is most aff the gas you buy in the US is 10 to 15% ethonal still. Makes gas cheaper but has some drawbacks one gallon os ethonal take about one acre of corn so with the amount of it that we would need would nessecitate making almost all of the US into a giant cornfield (as if Wisconsin doesn't have enough already). Also ethonal burns hotter than gasonline since it is a form of alcohol so the motor oil, valves, pistons, o-rings, and exahust manafolds on your car would have to be replaced. So unless your willing to convince everyone to spend several thousand dollars to have there otherwise perfectly good engine rebuilt or replaced ethonal is not a viable solution to the situation. However if the price of gas got high enough say around $15 a gallon then a synthetic gas produced from highly refined ethonal and several other plant by-products this will require more advanced refining plants however so convince the oil companies of that, and would also use several acres of crops for each gallon. So unless a car that runs on salt water is created or anyother good ideas come up gas is the most economical fuel for now. Plus over the past 50 years the price of gas has only gone up at slightly half the rate of inflation while not a guarantee of the future of gas prices it can be used as a rathe acurate estimate of future prices.


Quick correction:

E-85 (85% ethanol) will operate today's (and most of yesterday's) engines just fine, the fuel system just has to have all rubber parts changed to steel or other materials that will not break down in the alcohol. If you want to get MAX POWER out of an engine burning E-85, the compression ratio will need to be raised, or the boost can be cranked up for you turbo or blower guys (and gals).

Yes, the engine will run slightly hotter, but as long as the cooling system is in good shape, there should be no problems.

According to www.badgerstateethanol.com, their plant was designed to take 14.8 million bushels of corn and produce 40 million gallons of ethanol. By my quick figures, that's about 2.7 bushels of corn per gallon of ethanol. Also, based on an average of 200 bu/acre, you're looking at about 74,000 acres of corn for ethanol. That's about 116 square miles. Of course, this will vary with corn yields.

Randy

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Posted by sd452 on Monday, April 18, 2005 2:45 PM
Thank you for the corrections rvos.
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Posted by rvos1979 on Monday, April 18, 2005 3:56 PM
unfortunately, I may have to correct myself.

According to www.e85fuel.com, one bushel of corn can produce 2.7 gallons of ethanol.

apparently, even the websites have different views. you decide who is right.

Randy

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Posted by sd452 on Monday, April 18, 2005 8:17 PM
Thats the internet though you really have to double check the information. As I should have done as most of my statistics for producing ethanol are from 1981 so a little out of date, sorry.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:05 AM
Corn is as cheap as it gets. This stuff is so overproduced it is ridiculous. All soft drinks are corn syrup based. Fructose = corn. It is unavoidable in sweetened packaged foods.

Dispite this there are very few varieties left being farmed in the US what with mono-crop cultivation and cross pollination of GM corn. Pity the poor farmer who unknowingly has some Round-up ready varity blow in. Monsanto sues at the drop of a hat. Faster than a record exec at a Napster party.

Sure drive some of this overproduction to another use. Save some farms, they need the money.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:26 AM
Some of the folks indicate the high cost of hi test (Premium gas) can only be afforded by the rich.

That aint so.

I feed my olds with the V6 supercharger 93 octane all the time. I get about 400 miles out of it for about 16 gallons of gas give or take a gallon.

That is good for about a week's run covering everything. The best thing I can say about that is on lower octane gas it becomes really reluctant and lethargic on the throttle in cut- throat traffic.
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Posted by edbenton on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:39 AM
Actually all Ford Tauraus and Rangers from 1995 on and Chrysler minivans from 1994 on all already set up to burn E-85. The manufacturs did that to get a huge tax break and the engine does not even know the difference. If E-85 were made the standard fuel for cars our oil consumption would drop roughly 40% and crop prices would go up 20% meaning more money for farmers. Also ethanol can be made from any grain all ethanol is is grain alcohal. Another way to lower prices on oil is biodiesel burns just like regular diesel and costs right about the same blended 50/50 with regular diesel would cut oil consumption right around 10% again. That means we would be free of OPEC's price fixing to maike them even richer.
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Posted by spbed on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:11 AM
Just paid $231.9 for 87 octane. Down $0.02 from last week

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Posted by spbed on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:15 AM
Well I do not know the spread between 87 & 93. But whatever it is in 10/03 87 was $1.50 a gallon now today $2.31. So using your 16 gallons you can figure how much more you now pay then Oct 03 [:(]

Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

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Posted by sd452 on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:18 PM
The Key to what you said in your post HighIron is that you have a supercharger. Most vehicles with a supercharger or turbocharger run better on higher octane gasoline. But for someone like me with an Olds Alero with a regular 3.4 V6 the difference in gas mileage and preformance between 93 octane and 87 octane is not worth the price difference. Especially since here 87 octane droped 5 cents a gallon this week and 93 octane didn't drop at all. And no I don't belive that you have to be rich to afford hi test gas you just have to have a car that benifits from it.
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Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:21 PM
Can you get rid of a "supercharger'? [:o)][:D][:p]


Originally posted by sd452

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Posted by sd452 on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:27 PM
You can get rid of a supercharger spbed but if I had one on my car I would leave it on. Any car that comes from the factory with a supercharger is designed to have one and run best with one. So some Tinkering with the engine to get it to run at its best after removing the supercharger is nessesary. If it is an aftermarket supercharger though then most likely the headers where also changed and all that would be nessasary is puting factory headers back on and a tune up. But It depends on how you personaly feel about it.
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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 4:06 PM
....I doubt very much if the Alero 3.4L V6 would run any better on 93 octane as opposed to the reg. 87 octane stuff....This engine is designed and set up to run on 87 oct. and probably does fine on it...

Quentin

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Posted by sd452 on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 4:42 PM
It doesn't run any better thats what i was trying to say. Sorry for any confusion.
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Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 6:54 PM
JUst finished a trip to Lost Wages (Las Vegas) and paid 2,78 9/10 per gallon of 87 Octane at Mojave.
Cost fifty bucks each way just for gas. Drove over on Monday so the hotel rooms are cheaper, Well surprise surprise three conventions in town this week Motel 6 rooms $93.75 per night. and those were the only rooms available in the city. Same old story motels just like the oil companies prices are by supply and demand. Guess at these gasoline prices people won't be travelling to Vegas as often.
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Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 7:35 PM
Filled up in Mazomanie, WI today, price for #2 diesel was 2.38 a gallon, dropped 60 bucks into my tank.

Good thing I have a truck that gets 21.5 miles to the gallon.

Randy

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Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, April 21, 2005 4:19 PM
...In our local...prices today varied from 2.10 to 2.26....

Quentin

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