Originally posted by vsmith Originally posted by spbed Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 1, 2005 7:03 AM That is a heck of a interesting scenario. [:(] Originally posted by mucable Originally posted by LRSMITH Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 1, 2005 12:32 PM Well just back from filling up the trusty steed & last week paid $2.24. This week sorry to say $2.29 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 1:45 PM Unleaded is about 2.15 in Madison, WI, good old #2 diesel is anywhere 2.25 to 2.40. depending on where you fill up (truck stop is on low end). Thankfully my 3/4 ton pickup gets 22mpg. Not exactly looking forward to $3 gallon fuel, oh well, just keep building ethanol and biodiesel plants!! Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 1, 2005 2:00 PM Sorry should have said 87 octane [:p] Originally posted by rvos1979 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 7:53 PM Bay area average 87 Octane $2.56 a gallon. Here the the Valley price for 87 Octane $2.52 a gallon and that ain't April fools! Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 2, 2005 8:13 AM Yep yesterday it closed over $57.00 a BRL. In case nobody has noticed the DJ is down like 600 points in a month. If you believe that the stock market is the harbinger of things to come then the future looks rather dim sorry to say. Mr bro lives in Menlo Park! [:o)][:I] Originally posted by passengerfan [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 2, 2005 11:10 AM Yeah prices are going up. in two weeks gas by me has gone from $1.95 a gallon to $2.03. *** money grubers![:(!] I guess i must be a luckier one at these prices.[|)] Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, April 2, 2005 1:50 PM spbed....Oh yes...I have noticed the stock market drop this month...and once again we had the report that 2005 was to be the year of a good stock market....Yea...once again similar to the last 4 years...! Quentin Reply selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Saturday, April 2, 2005 2:31 PM Reported on Candian Television last evening that Vancouver, BC, saw price go over $1.02 a liter for reg unleaded. Anybody interested in a nearly new Ameri-Camp 26 footer, fully loaded? Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 8:26 AM Biz pages of todays newspaper says oil went over $58.00 per BRL yestreday. Lower SE now in the mid $2.30s Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mucable Member sinceDecember 2001 47 posts Posted by mucable on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:24 AM I just looked over this thread and got to thinking that in six weeks the price of regular per gallon rose from $1.799 to $2.209 here in just 35 days! Now if those durn hybrids weren't so ugly...wait if it goes up another 40 cents in the next 35 days they might start looking better don't you think? Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:28 AM Filled up yesterday, the cheap stuff was about 2.27, and I paid 2.35 for diesel fuel. I just hope we're now using the summer blend of diesel. BTW, Prices were in Oregon, Just south of Madison, WI. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:35 AM ....I believe the price jumping as it is...{now 2.399 here in Muncie, In.}, is going to effect a bunch of folk's thinking...Including ours. Don't know just what direction it's going to effect but it is going to make some change... I would like to see massive programs started or {restarted}, for alternate fuels in this country. Haven't we been up and down this yo-yo enough NOT to be doing something about it.....A Manhattan project...forge ahead....!! The sooner the better. Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:50 AM Fully agree that some sought of federal program has to begun to get us to self sufficency in oil at the earliest possible moment! [:(][:(] Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:52 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar ....I believe the price jumping as it is...{now 2.399 here in Muncie, In.}, is going to effect a bunch of folk's thinking...Including ours. Don't know just what direction it's going to effect but it is going to make some change... I would like to see massive programs started or {restarted}, for alternate fuels in this country. Haven't we been up and down this yo-yo enough NOT to be doing something about it.....A Manhattan project...forge ahead....!! The sooner the better. Modelcar, Sounds like Wisconsin is trying to do something about it, by the end of 2006 we should have at least one, maybe two more ethanol plants in operation, plus I heard the state government is trying to get a bill through that would require 10% ethanol in all gasoline sold in WI. Someone told me not long ago that GM has a little known option that would prep the vehicle to run on E-85, or 85 percent ethanol, and gasoline. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:03 AM There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:11 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ I think it's the same stuff. I do know E-85 is 100 octane, though. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply bnsfkline Member sinceOctober 2002 From: St. Louis Area, Florrisant to be specific!!!!!!!!! 1,134 posts Posted by bnsfkline on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:33 AM Gas just went from 1.88 to 2.29 in 2 weeks! Time to sell my car (8 cyl engine) Jim Tiroch RIP Saveria DiBlasi - My First True Love and a Great Railfanning Companion Saveria Danielle DiBlasi Feb 5th, 1986 - Nov 4th, 2008 Check em out! My photos that is: http://bnsfkline.rrpicturearchives.net and ALS2001 Productions http://www.youtube.com/ALS2001 Reply greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:41 AM A while back the Wall Street Journal had a good story on the oil shale in Wyoming. According to them, there's enough petroleum in the shale to make the US self sufficient. Development of production began with the first oil shock way back when. But it became uneconomic to produce oil from the shale when oil dropped back below $30/bbl. The investments by the oil companies were written off and the facilities shuttered. Well, now we're back above $30/bbl. Way above $30. This makes oil shale development economically feasible again. But investors are holding back, they know if the price goes down they'll loose their investments again. To goose things along the Dept. of Defnese will begin to purchase part of its fuel requirements from shale sources. Makes sense to me. Send the tax $$ to Wyoming instead of offshore. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply dekemd Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 286 posts Posted by dekemd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:12 PM I've heard a lot of talk about the need for people to reduce their oil consumption, and the lack of refining facilities creating supply problems. So why is it that NASCAR can waste 10's of thousands of gallons of gas every week and no one seems to care. Think of how much gas race teams use during testing, practices, qualifying, and races each week. Multiply that by the many Nascar teams, plus add in all the lessor racing series across the country and you have a large amount of fuel that is being wasted. Some might say that what they use is just a drop in the bucket compared to the overall consumption, but all those little drops in the bucket add up. Just my $.02 Derrick Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:19 PM Just a couple of thoughts... first, my Honda Hybrid looks like any other Honda Civic, except that you don't see it at gas stations so often (46 mpg in Connecticut's horrendous traffic). Second, that $30/bbl economic figure for oil shale was indeed way back when; the break even now is at least $70, and maybe higher. That's called 'inflation'. There are some interesting environmental problems with the stuff, too. Third, Canada has, in Alberta, oil sands which are easier to process than oil shale. Both will be coming, though. Fourth, don't weep to much: if you think you have problems, a cousin of mine in Truro, NS reports he's paying the equivalent of $3.95 US per gallon. That's coming, too, friends! Jamie Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 4:37 PM ....We have all kinds of possibilities coming at us regarding this seemingly upward spiral of oil prices....I for one am tired of the yo-yo and bowing to the oil producing countries. I say our government needs to assemble a massive team of industry experts and let the heads banner back and forth until we decide what can be done in this country or another free world country and get started with it...Do we want to be slaves to these sheiks the rest of our lives....I'd believe not. Let's get on with it...Fast...! Now... As for Nascar "wasting oil"...Are we going to stop everything that is done for entertainment in the country...Stop one, stop all....100,000 folks to a ball game of sorts requires fuel oil to get them there so don't just pick on one sport....I'd say we go on living but put our heads together and come up with solutions so we once and for all can tell the folks over there in the mid east we will not be their slaves much longer....Let them have to drink the stuff...! I think they need us almost as much as we need them.... By the way, they don't make too many products over there so they might get an attitude change pretty quick if we really get on some major fuel programs in this country...{Meaning they don't really have too much else to sell}.... Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 5:59 PM During the Carter administration the oil depletion allowance was taken from the oil industry. The result, no new refineries built in America since 1976....I stand corrected.... Nobody is going to invest into any refinery unless they are able to depreciate it.....that's business...... Refineries are a capital cost in the ledger similar to transmission lines for the utility companies..... They don't earn a profit.... A utility companies earns a profit selling electricity by the kilowatt hour, an oil company earns a profit selling gasoline..... Since our refineries are running at peak production, there won't be any more gas avialable anytime soon. The kicker is that consumption is up, has been going up ever since the first oil embargo in the early 1970s....at a consistent rate..... Gasoline could possibly be $3 a gallon by the end of the year, and possibly $5 a gallon by the end of next year.... if not higher..... We either need to cut consumption, or increase production.... Its that simple..... To convert to fuel cells and/or hybrid cars, we'll need to build a huge amount of batteries, which are a disaster to the environment..... To convert to ethanol we'll need to farm more land than what's being farmed today to replace oil..... Hydrogen is a pipe dream, to create it we must use/burn more energy than what we get..... However, we are the Saudi Arabia in coal.... maybe we should convert to steam.....using coal...... Or maybe we should do the right thing and cut consumption..... It should be a crime against society for anyone to drive a car or truck with more than 4 cyclinders..... Reply Edit selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 7:02 PM Dekemd, yes, and think of the expense of flight. One 767 turbofan consumes more fuel in one minute of cruising altitude flight than it takes to run the average Honda for a month! Hawaii, here I come. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:58 PM Blair,Neb. $2.25 Ethonol. $2.35 Regular unleaded. $2.39 Diesel. (OUCH) Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:10 PM Don....I hear what you are saying in refineries...but world oil prices which are sky rocketing are not rising because of our deficiency in refinery capacity....and when that continues to happen everything made from crude will be rising in price. Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:25 PM Originally posted by spbed Where I live diesel is higher then 87 octane. What then is the benefit of a diesel engine? [:D][;)] Ahem... Desiel is measured over time it takes to complete a burn. It is called "Cetane" if memory serves. Cetane ratings of 50 or better really gives a Detroit or Caterpiller something to chew on. I will have to look it up. But we dont use the word octane with desiel fuel. Higher cetane levels provide greater power over time for the power stroke. Reply Edit eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:53 PM Last night I spent $30.00 for the first time in my life for 3/4 of a tank of gas in my company car...a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix....and am beginning to believe some folks who say we are all being hosed big time over this and somebody (spelled BIG OIL) is getting very rich over this...ARE YOU LISTENING MR. BUSH? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 7, 2005 6:58 AM Well I am listening to CNN this AM & they reported the future looks bleaker then the past. They said there is supposed to be a report issued at 0930 hrs today. They also said that a "normal" user of gas was now paying $300.00 per year more for gas then last year. [:(][xx(] Originally posted by eolafan Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply « First«567891011»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by spbed Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 1, 2005 7:03 AM That is a heck of a interesting scenario. [:(] Originally posted by mucable Originally posted by LRSMITH Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 1, 2005 12:32 PM Well just back from filling up the trusty steed & last week paid $2.24. This week sorry to say $2.29 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 1:45 PM Unleaded is about 2.15 in Madison, WI, good old #2 diesel is anywhere 2.25 to 2.40. depending on where you fill up (truck stop is on low end). Thankfully my 3/4 ton pickup gets 22mpg. Not exactly looking forward to $3 gallon fuel, oh well, just keep building ethanol and biodiesel plants!! Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 1, 2005 2:00 PM Sorry should have said 87 octane [:p] Originally posted by rvos1979 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 7:53 PM Bay area average 87 Octane $2.56 a gallon. Here the the Valley price for 87 Octane $2.52 a gallon and that ain't April fools! Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 2, 2005 8:13 AM Yep yesterday it closed over $57.00 a BRL. In case nobody has noticed the DJ is down like 600 points in a month. If you believe that the stock market is the harbinger of things to come then the future looks rather dim sorry to say. Mr bro lives in Menlo Park! [:o)][:I] Originally posted by passengerfan [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 2, 2005 11:10 AM Yeah prices are going up. in two weeks gas by me has gone from $1.95 a gallon to $2.03. *** money grubers![:(!] I guess i must be a luckier one at these prices.[|)] Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, April 2, 2005 1:50 PM spbed....Oh yes...I have noticed the stock market drop this month...and once again we had the report that 2005 was to be the year of a good stock market....Yea...once again similar to the last 4 years...! Quentin Reply selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Saturday, April 2, 2005 2:31 PM Reported on Candian Television last evening that Vancouver, BC, saw price go over $1.02 a liter for reg unleaded. Anybody interested in a nearly new Ameri-Camp 26 footer, fully loaded? Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 8:26 AM Biz pages of todays newspaper says oil went over $58.00 per BRL yestreday. Lower SE now in the mid $2.30s Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mucable Member sinceDecember 2001 47 posts Posted by mucable on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:24 AM I just looked over this thread and got to thinking that in six weeks the price of regular per gallon rose from $1.799 to $2.209 here in just 35 days! Now if those durn hybrids weren't so ugly...wait if it goes up another 40 cents in the next 35 days they might start looking better don't you think? Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:28 AM Filled up yesterday, the cheap stuff was about 2.27, and I paid 2.35 for diesel fuel. I just hope we're now using the summer blend of diesel. BTW, Prices were in Oregon, Just south of Madison, WI. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:35 AM ....I believe the price jumping as it is...{now 2.399 here in Muncie, In.}, is going to effect a bunch of folk's thinking...Including ours. Don't know just what direction it's going to effect but it is going to make some change... I would like to see massive programs started or {restarted}, for alternate fuels in this country. Haven't we been up and down this yo-yo enough NOT to be doing something about it.....A Manhattan project...forge ahead....!! The sooner the better. Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:50 AM Fully agree that some sought of federal program has to begun to get us to self sufficency in oil at the earliest possible moment! [:(][:(] Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:52 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar ....I believe the price jumping as it is...{now 2.399 here in Muncie, In.}, is going to effect a bunch of folk's thinking...Including ours. Don't know just what direction it's going to effect but it is going to make some change... I would like to see massive programs started or {restarted}, for alternate fuels in this country. Haven't we been up and down this yo-yo enough NOT to be doing something about it.....A Manhattan project...forge ahead....!! The sooner the better. Modelcar, Sounds like Wisconsin is trying to do something about it, by the end of 2006 we should have at least one, maybe two more ethanol plants in operation, plus I heard the state government is trying to get a bill through that would require 10% ethanol in all gasoline sold in WI. Someone told me not long ago that GM has a little known option that would prep the vehicle to run on E-85, or 85 percent ethanol, and gasoline. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:03 AM There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:11 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ I think it's the same stuff. I do know E-85 is 100 octane, though. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply bnsfkline Member sinceOctober 2002 From: St. Louis Area, Florrisant to be specific!!!!!!!!! 1,134 posts Posted by bnsfkline on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:33 AM Gas just went from 1.88 to 2.29 in 2 weeks! Time to sell my car (8 cyl engine) Jim Tiroch RIP Saveria DiBlasi - My First True Love and a Great Railfanning Companion Saveria Danielle DiBlasi Feb 5th, 1986 - Nov 4th, 2008 Check em out! My photos that is: http://bnsfkline.rrpicturearchives.net and ALS2001 Productions http://www.youtube.com/ALS2001 Reply greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:41 AM A while back the Wall Street Journal had a good story on the oil shale in Wyoming. According to them, there's enough petroleum in the shale to make the US self sufficient. Development of production began with the first oil shock way back when. But it became uneconomic to produce oil from the shale when oil dropped back below $30/bbl. The investments by the oil companies were written off and the facilities shuttered. Well, now we're back above $30/bbl. Way above $30. This makes oil shale development economically feasible again. But investors are holding back, they know if the price goes down they'll loose their investments again. To goose things along the Dept. of Defnese will begin to purchase part of its fuel requirements from shale sources. Makes sense to me. Send the tax $$ to Wyoming instead of offshore. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply dekemd Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 286 posts Posted by dekemd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:12 PM I've heard a lot of talk about the need for people to reduce their oil consumption, and the lack of refining facilities creating supply problems. So why is it that NASCAR can waste 10's of thousands of gallons of gas every week and no one seems to care. Think of how much gas race teams use during testing, practices, qualifying, and races each week. Multiply that by the many Nascar teams, plus add in all the lessor racing series across the country and you have a large amount of fuel that is being wasted. Some might say that what they use is just a drop in the bucket compared to the overall consumption, but all those little drops in the bucket add up. Just my $.02 Derrick Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:19 PM Just a couple of thoughts... first, my Honda Hybrid looks like any other Honda Civic, except that you don't see it at gas stations so often (46 mpg in Connecticut's horrendous traffic). Second, that $30/bbl economic figure for oil shale was indeed way back when; the break even now is at least $70, and maybe higher. That's called 'inflation'. There are some interesting environmental problems with the stuff, too. Third, Canada has, in Alberta, oil sands which are easier to process than oil shale. Both will be coming, though. Fourth, don't weep to much: if you think you have problems, a cousin of mine in Truro, NS reports he's paying the equivalent of $3.95 US per gallon. That's coming, too, friends! Jamie Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 4:37 PM ....We have all kinds of possibilities coming at us regarding this seemingly upward spiral of oil prices....I for one am tired of the yo-yo and bowing to the oil producing countries. I say our government needs to assemble a massive team of industry experts and let the heads banner back and forth until we decide what can be done in this country or another free world country and get started with it...Do we want to be slaves to these sheiks the rest of our lives....I'd believe not. Let's get on with it...Fast...! Now... As for Nascar "wasting oil"...Are we going to stop everything that is done for entertainment in the country...Stop one, stop all....100,000 folks to a ball game of sorts requires fuel oil to get them there so don't just pick on one sport....I'd say we go on living but put our heads together and come up with solutions so we once and for all can tell the folks over there in the mid east we will not be their slaves much longer....Let them have to drink the stuff...! I think they need us almost as much as we need them.... By the way, they don't make too many products over there so they might get an attitude change pretty quick if we really get on some major fuel programs in this country...{Meaning they don't really have too much else to sell}.... Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 5:59 PM During the Carter administration the oil depletion allowance was taken from the oil industry. The result, no new refineries built in America since 1976....I stand corrected.... Nobody is going to invest into any refinery unless they are able to depreciate it.....that's business...... Refineries are a capital cost in the ledger similar to transmission lines for the utility companies..... They don't earn a profit.... A utility companies earns a profit selling electricity by the kilowatt hour, an oil company earns a profit selling gasoline..... Since our refineries are running at peak production, there won't be any more gas avialable anytime soon. The kicker is that consumption is up, has been going up ever since the first oil embargo in the early 1970s....at a consistent rate..... Gasoline could possibly be $3 a gallon by the end of the year, and possibly $5 a gallon by the end of next year.... if not higher..... We either need to cut consumption, or increase production.... Its that simple..... To convert to fuel cells and/or hybrid cars, we'll need to build a huge amount of batteries, which are a disaster to the environment..... To convert to ethanol we'll need to farm more land than what's being farmed today to replace oil..... Hydrogen is a pipe dream, to create it we must use/burn more energy than what we get..... However, we are the Saudi Arabia in coal.... maybe we should convert to steam.....using coal...... Or maybe we should do the right thing and cut consumption..... It should be a crime against society for anyone to drive a car or truck with more than 4 cyclinders..... Reply Edit selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 7:02 PM Dekemd, yes, and think of the expense of flight. One 767 turbofan consumes more fuel in one minute of cruising altitude flight than it takes to run the average Honda for a month! Hawaii, here I come. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:58 PM Blair,Neb. $2.25 Ethonol. $2.35 Regular unleaded. $2.39 Diesel. (OUCH) Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:10 PM Don....I hear what you are saying in refineries...but world oil prices which are sky rocketing are not rising because of our deficiency in refinery capacity....and when that continues to happen everything made from crude will be rising in price. Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:25 PM Originally posted by spbed Where I live diesel is higher then 87 octane. What then is the benefit of a diesel engine? [:D][;)] Ahem... Desiel is measured over time it takes to complete a burn. It is called "Cetane" if memory serves. Cetane ratings of 50 or better really gives a Detroit or Caterpiller something to chew on. I will have to look it up. But we dont use the word octane with desiel fuel. Higher cetane levels provide greater power over time for the power stroke. Reply Edit eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:53 PM Last night I spent $30.00 for the first time in my life for 3/4 of a tank of gas in my company car...a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix....and am beginning to believe some folks who say we are all being hosed big time over this and somebody (spelled BIG OIL) is getting very rich over this...ARE YOU LISTENING MR. BUSH? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 7, 2005 6:58 AM Well I am listening to CNN this AM & they reported the future looks bleaker then the past. They said there is supposed to be a report issued at 0930 hrs today. They also said that a "normal" user of gas was now paying $300.00 per year more for gas then last year. [:(][xx(] Originally posted by eolafan Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply « First«567891011»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
Originally posted by mucable Originally posted by LRSMITH Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 1, 2005 12:32 PM Well just back from filling up the trusty steed & last week paid $2.24. This week sorry to say $2.29 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 1:45 PM Unleaded is about 2.15 in Madison, WI, good old #2 diesel is anywhere 2.25 to 2.40. depending on where you fill up (truck stop is on low end). Thankfully my 3/4 ton pickup gets 22mpg. Not exactly looking forward to $3 gallon fuel, oh well, just keep building ethanol and biodiesel plants!! Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 1, 2005 2:00 PM Sorry should have said 87 octane [:p] Originally posted by rvos1979 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 7:53 PM Bay area average 87 Octane $2.56 a gallon. Here the the Valley price for 87 Octane $2.52 a gallon and that ain't April fools! Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 2, 2005 8:13 AM Yep yesterday it closed over $57.00 a BRL. In case nobody has noticed the DJ is down like 600 points in a month. If you believe that the stock market is the harbinger of things to come then the future looks rather dim sorry to say. Mr bro lives in Menlo Park! [:o)][:I] Originally posted by passengerfan [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 2, 2005 11:10 AM Yeah prices are going up. in two weeks gas by me has gone from $1.95 a gallon to $2.03. *** money grubers![:(!] I guess i must be a luckier one at these prices.[|)] Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, April 2, 2005 1:50 PM spbed....Oh yes...I have noticed the stock market drop this month...and once again we had the report that 2005 was to be the year of a good stock market....Yea...once again similar to the last 4 years...! Quentin Reply selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Saturday, April 2, 2005 2:31 PM Reported on Candian Television last evening that Vancouver, BC, saw price go over $1.02 a liter for reg unleaded. Anybody interested in a nearly new Ameri-Camp 26 footer, fully loaded? Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 8:26 AM Biz pages of todays newspaper says oil went over $58.00 per BRL yestreday. Lower SE now in the mid $2.30s Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mucable Member sinceDecember 2001 47 posts Posted by mucable on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:24 AM I just looked over this thread and got to thinking that in six weeks the price of regular per gallon rose from $1.799 to $2.209 here in just 35 days! Now if those durn hybrids weren't so ugly...wait if it goes up another 40 cents in the next 35 days they might start looking better don't you think? Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:28 AM Filled up yesterday, the cheap stuff was about 2.27, and I paid 2.35 for diesel fuel. I just hope we're now using the summer blend of diesel. BTW, Prices were in Oregon, Just south of Madison, WI. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:35 AM ....I believe the price jumping as it is...{now 2.399 here in Muncie, In.}, is going to effect a bunch of folk's thinking...Including ours. Don't know just what direction it's going to effect but it is going to make some change... I would like to see massive programs started or {restarted}, for alternate fuels in this country. Haven't we been up and down this yo-yo enough NOT to be doing something about it.....A Manhattan project...forge ahead....!! The sooner the better. Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:50 AM Fully agree that some sought of federal program has to begun to get us to self sufficency in oil at the earliest possible moment! [:(][:(] Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:52 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar ....I believe the price jumping as it is...{now 2.399 here in Muncie, In.}, is going to effect a bunch of folk's thinking...Including ours. Don't know just what direction it's going to effect but it is going to make some change... I would like to see massive programs started or {restarted}, for alternate fuels in this country. Haven't we been up and down this yo-yo enough NOT to be doing something about it.....A Manhattan project...forge ahead....!! The sooner the better. Modelcar, Sounds like Wisconsin is trying to do something about it, by the end of 2006 we should have at least one, maybe two more ethanol plants in operation, plus I heard the state government is trying to get a bill through that would require 10% ethanol in all gasoline sold in WI. Someone told me not long ago that GM has a little known option that would prep the vehicle to run on E-85, or 85 percent ethanol, and gasoline. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:03 AM There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:11 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ I think it's the same stuff. I do know E-85 is 100 octane, though. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply bnsfkline Member sinceOctober 2002 From: St. Louis Area, Florrisant to be specific!!!!!!!!! 1,134 posts Posted by bnsfkline on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:33 AM Gas just went from 1.88 to 2.29 in 2 weeks! Time to sell my car (8 cyl engine) Jim Tiroch RIP Saveria DiBlasi - My First True Love and a Great Railfanning Companion Saveria Danielle DiBlasi Feb 5th, 1986 - Nov 4th, 2008 Check em out! My photos that is: http://bnsfkline.rrpicturearchives.net and ALS2001 Productions http://www.youtube.com/ALS2001 Reply greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:41 AM A while back the Wall Street Journal had a good story on the oil shale in Wyoming. According to them, there's enough petroleum in the shale to make the US self sufficient. Development of production began with the first oil shock way back when. But it became uneconomic to produce oil from the shale when oil dropped back below $30/bbl. The investments by the oil companies were written off and the facilities shuttered. Well, now we're back above $30/bbl. Way above $30. This makes oil shale development economically feasible again. But investors are holding back, they know if the price goes down they'll loose their investments again. To goose things along the Dept. of Defnese will begin to purchase part of its fuel requirements from shale sources. Makes sense to me. Send the tax $$ to Wyoming instead of offshore. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply dekemd Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 286 posts Posted by dekemd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:12 PM I've heard a lot of talk about the need for people to reduce their oil consumption, and the lack of refining facilities creating supply problems. So why is it that NASCAR can waste 10's of thousands of gallons of gas every week and no one seems to care. Think of how much gas race teams use during testing, practices, qualifying, and races each week. Multiply that by the many Nascar teams, plus add in all the lessor racing series across the country and you have a large amount of fuel that is being wasted. Some might say that what they use is just a drop in the bucket compared to the overall consumption, but all those little drops in the bucket add up. Just my $.02 Derrick Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:19 PM Just a couple of thoughts... first, my Honda Hybrid looks like any other Honda Civic, except that you don't see it at gas stations so often (46 mpg in Connecticut's horrendous traffic). Second, that $30/bbl economic figure for oil shale was indeed way back when; the break even now is at least $70, and maybe higher. That's called 'inflation'. There are some interesting environmental problems with the stuff, too. Third, Canada has, in Alberta, oil sands which are easier to process than oil shale. Both will be coming, though. Fourth, don't weep to much: if you think you have problems, a cousin of mine in Truro, NS reports he's paying the equivalent of $3.95 US per gallon. That's coming, too, friends! Jamie Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 4:37 PM ....We have all kinds of possibilities coming at us regarding this seemingly upward spiral of oil prices....I for one am tired of the yo-yo and bowing to the oil producing countries. I say our government needs to assemble a massive team of industry experts and let the heads banner back and forth until we decide what can be done in this country or another free world country and get started with it...Do we want to be slaves to these sheiks the rest of our lives....I'd believe not. Let's get on with it...Fast...! Now... As for Nascar "wasting oil"...Are we going to stop everything that is done for entertainment in the country...Stop one, stop all....100,000 folks to a ball game of sorts requires fuel oil to get them there so don't just pick on one sport....I'd say we go on living but put our heads together and come up with solutions so we once and for all can tell the folks over there in the mid east we will not be their slaves much longer....Let them have to drink the stuff...! I think they need us almost as much as we need them.... By the way, they don't make too many products over there so they might get an attitude change pretty quick if we really get on some major fuel programs in this country...{Meaning they don't really have too much else to sell}.... Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 5:59 PM During the Carter administration the oil depletion allowance was taken from the oil industry. The result, no new refineries built in America since 1976....I stand corrected.... Nobody is going to invest into any refinery unless they are able to depreciate it.....that's business...... Refineries are a capital cost in the ledger similar to transmission lines for the utility companies..... They don't earn a profit.... A utility companies earns a profit selling electricity by the kilowatt hour, an oil company earns a profit selling gasoline..... Since our refineries are running at peak production, there won't be any more gas avialable anytime soon. The kicker is that consumption is up, has been going up ever since the first oil embargo in the early 1970s....at a consistent rate..... Gasoline could possibly be $3 a gallon by the end of the year, and possibly $5 a gallon by the end of next year.... if not higher..... We either need to cut consumption, or increase production.... Its that simple..... To convert to fuel cells and/or hybrid cars, we'll need to build a huge amount of batteries, which are a disaster to the environment..... To convert to ethanol we'll need to farm more land than what's being farmed today to replace oil..... Hydrogen is a pipe dream, to create it we must use/burn more energy than what we get..... However, we are the Saudi Arabia in coal.... maybe we should convert to steam.....using coal...... Or maybe we should do the right thing and cut consumption..... It should be a crime against society for anyone to drive a car or truck with more than 4 cyclinders..... Reply Edit selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 7:02 PM Dekemd, yes, and think of the expense of flight. One 767 turbofan consumes more fuel in one minute of cruising altitude flight than it takes to run the average Honda for a month! Hawaii, here I come. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:58 PM Blair,Neb. $2.25 Ethonol. $2.35 Regular unleaded. $2.39 Diesel. (OUCH) Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:10 PM Don....I hear what you are saying in refineries...but world oil prices which are sky rocketing are not rising because of our deficiency in refinery capacity....and when that continues to happen everything made from crude will be rising in price. Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:25 PM Originally posted by spbed Where I live diesel is higher then 87 octane. What then is the benefit of a diesel engine? [:D][;)] Ahem... Desiel is measured over time it takes to complete a burn. It is called "Cetane" if memory serves. Cetane ratings of 50 or better really gives a Detroit or Caterpiller something to chew on. I will have to look it up. But we dont use the word octane with desiel fuel. Higher cetane levels provide greater power over time for the power stroke. Reply Edit eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:53 PM Last night I spent $30.00 for the first time in my life for 3/4 of a tank of gas in my company car...a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix....and am beginning to believe some folks who say we are all being hosed big time over this and somebody (spelled BIG OIL) is getting very rich over this...ARE YOU LISTENING MR. BUSH? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 7, 2005 6:58 AM Well I am listening to CNN this AM & they reported the future looks bleaker then the past. They said there is supposed to be a report issued at 0930 hrs today. They also said that a "normal" user of gas was now paying $300.00 per year more for gas then last year. [:(][xx(] Originally posted by eolafan Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply « First«567891011»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by LRSMITH Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 1, 2005 12:32 PM Well just back from filling up the trusty steed & last week paid $2.24. This week sorry to say $2.29 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 1:45 PM Unleaded is about 2.15 in Madison, WI, good old #2 diesel is anywhere 2.25 to 2.40. depending on where you fill up (truck stop is on low end). Thankfully my 3/4 ton pickup gets 22mpg. Not exactly looking forward to $3 gallon fuel, oh well, just keep building ethanol and biodiesel plants!! Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 1, 2005 2:00 PM Sorry should have said 87 octane [:p] Originally posted by rvos1979 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 7:53 PM Bay area average 87 Octane $2.56 a gallon. Here the the Valley price for 87 Octane $2.52 a gallon and that ain't April fools! Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 2, 2005 8:13 AM Yep yesterday it closed over $57.00 a BRL. In case nobody has noticed the DJ is down like 600 points in a month. If you believe that the stock market is the harbinger of things to come then the future looks rather dim sorry to say. Mr bro lives in Menlo Park! [:o)][:I] Originally posted by passengerfan [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 2, 2005 11:10 AM Yeah prices are going up. in two weeks gas by me has gone from $1.95 a gallon to $2.03. *** money grubers![:(!] I guess i must be a luckier one at these prices.[|)] Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, April 2, 2005 1:50 PM spbed....Oh yes...I have noticed the stock market drop this month...and once again we had the report that 2005 was to be the year of a good stock market....Yea...once again similar to the last 4 years...! Quentin Reply selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Saturday, April 2, 2005 2:31 PM Reported on Candian Television last evening that Vancouver, BC, saw price go over $1.02 a liter for reg unleaded. Anybody interested in a nearly new Ameri-Camp 26 footer, fully loaded? Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 8:26 AM Biz pages of todays newspaper says oil went over $58.00 per BRL yestreday. Lower SE now in the mid $2.30s Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mucable Member sinceDecember 2001 47 posts Posted by mucable on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:24 AM I just looked over this thread and got to thinking that in six weeks the price of regular per gallon rose from $1.799 to $2.209 here in just 35 days! Now if those durn hybrids weren't so ugly...wait if it goes up another 40 cents in the next 35 days they might start looking better don't you think? Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:28 AM Filled up yesterday, the cheap stuff was about 2.27, and I paid 2.35 for diesel fuel. I just hope we're now using the summer blend of diesel. BTW, Prices were in Oregon, Just south of Madison, WI. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:35 AM ....I believe the price jumping as it is...{now 2.399 here in Muncie, In.}, is going to effect a bunch of folk's thinking...Including ours. Don't know just what direction it's going to effect but it is going to make some change... I would like to see massive programs started or {restarted}, for alternate fuels in this country. Haven't we been up and down this yo-yo enough NOT to be doing something about it.....A Manhattan project...forge ahead....!! The sooner the better. Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:50 AM Fully agree that some sought of federal program has to begun to get us to self sufficency in oil at the earliest possible moment! [:(][:(] Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:52 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar ....I believe the price jumping as it is...{now 2.399 here in Muncie, In.}, is going to effect a bunch of folk's thinking...Including ours. Don't know just what direction it's going to effect but it is going to make some change... I would like to see massive programs started or {restarted}, for alternate fuels in this country. Haven't we been up and down this yo-yo enough NOT to be doing something about it.....A Manhattan project...forge ahead....!! The sooner the better. Modelcar, Sounds like Wisconsin is trying to do something about it, by the end of 2006 we should have at least one, maybe two more ethanol plants in operation, plus I heard the state government is trying to get a bill through that would require 10% ethanol in all gasoline sold in WI. Someone told me not long ago that GM has a little known option that would prep the vehicle to run on E-85, or 85 percent ethanol, and gasoline. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:03 AM There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:11 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ I think it's the same stuff. I do know E-85 is 100 octane, though. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply bnsfkline Member sinceOctober 2002 From: St. Louis Area, Florrisant to be specific!!!!!!!!! 1,134 posts Posted by bnsfkline on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:33 AM Gas just went from 1.88 to 2.29 in 2 weeks! Time to sell my car (8 cyl engine) Jim Tiroch RIP Saveria DiBlasi - My First True Love and a Great Railfanning Companion Saveria Danielle DiBlasi Feb 5th, 1986 - Nov 4th, 2008 Check em out! My photos that is: http://bnsfkline.rrpicturearchives.net and ALS2001 Productions http://www.youtube.com/ALS2001 Reply greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:41 AM A while back the Wall Street Journal had a good story on the oil shale in Wyoming. According to them, there's enough petroleum in the shale to make the US self sufficient. Development of production began with the first oil shock way back when. But it became uneconomic to produce oil from the shale when oil dropped back below $30/bbl. The investments by the oil companies were written off and the facilities shuttered. Well, now we're back above $30/bbl. Way above $30. This makes oil shale development economically feasible again. But investors are holding back, they know if the price goes down they'll loose their investments again. To goose things along the Dept. of Defnese will begin to purchase part of its fuel requirements from shale sources. Makes sense to me. Send the tax $$ to Wyoming instead of offshore. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply dekemd Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 286 posts Posted by dekemd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:12 PM I've heard a lot of talk about the need for people to reduce their oil consumption, and the lack of refining facilities creating supply problems. So why is it that NASCAR can waste 10's of thousands of gallons of gas every week and no one seems to care. Think of how much gas race teams use during testing, practices, qualifying, and races each week. Multiply that by the many Nascar teams, plus add in all the lessor racing series across the country and you have a large amount of fuel that is being wasted. Some might say that what they use is just a drop in the bucket compared to the overall consumption, but all those little drops in the bucket add up. Just my $.02 Derrick Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:19 PM Just a couple of thoughts... first, my Honda Hybrid looks like any other Honda Civic, except that you don't see it at gas stations so often (46 mpg in Connecticut's horrendous traffic). Second, that $30/bbl economic figure for oil shale was indeed way back when; the break even now is at least $70, and maybe higher. That's called 'inflation'. There are some interesting environmental problems with the stuff, too. Third, Canada has, in Alberta, oil sands which are easier to process than oil shale. Both will be coming, though. Fourth, don't weep to much: if you think you have problems, a cousin of mine in Truro, NS reports he's paying the equivalent of $3.95 US per gallon. That's coming, too, friends! Jamie Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 4:37 PM ....We have all kinds of possibilities coming at us regarding this seemingly upward spiral of oil prices....I for one am tired of the yo-yo and bowing to the oil producing countries. I say our government needs to assemble a massive team of industry experts and let the heads banner back and forth until we decide what can be done in this country or another free world country and get started with it...Do we want to be slaves to these sheiks the rest of our lives....I'd believe not. Let's get on with it...Fast...! Now... As for Nascar "wasting oil"...Are we going to stop everything that is done for entertainment in the country...Stop one, stop all....100,000 folks to a ball game of sorts requires fuel oil to get them there so don't just pick on one sport....I'd say we go on living but put our heads together and come up with solutions so we once and for all can tell the folks over there in the mid east we will not be their slaves much longer....Let them have to drink the stuff...! I think they need us almost as much as we need them.... By the way, they don't make too many products over there so they might get an attitude change pretty quick if we really get on some major fuel programs in this country...{Meaning they don't really have too much else to sell}.... Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 5:59 PM During the Carter administration the oil depletion allowance was taken from the oil industry. The result, no new refineries built in America since 1976....I stand corrected.... Nobody is going to invest into any refinery unless they are able to depreciate it.....that's business...... Refineries are a capital cost in the ledger similar to transmission lines for the utility companies..... They don't earn a profit.... A utility companies earns a profit selling electricity by the kilowatt hour, an oil company earns a profit selling gasoline..... Since our refineries are running at peak production, there won't be any more gas avialable anytime soon. The kicker is that consumption is up, has been going up ever since the first oil embargo in the early 1970s....at a consistent rate..... Gasoline could possibly be $3 a gallon by the end of the year, and possibly $5 a gallon by the end of next year.... if not higher..... We either need to cut consumption, or increase production.... Its that simple..... To convert to fuel cells and/or hybrid cars, we'll need to build a huge amount of batteries, which are a disaster to the environment..... To convert to ethanol we'll need to farm more land than what's being farmed today to replace oil..... Hydrogen is a pipe dream, to create it we must use/burn more energy than what we get..... However, we are the Saudi Arabia in coal.... maybe we should convert to steam.....using coal...... Or maybe we should do the right thing and cut consumption..... It should be a crime against society for anyone to drive a car or truck with more than 4 cyclinders..... Reply Edit selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 7:02 PM Dekemd, yes, and think of the expense of flight. One 767 turbofan consumes more fuel in one minute of cruising altitude flight than it takes to run the average Honda for a month! Hawaii, here I come. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:58 PM Blair,Neb. $2.25 Ethonol. $2.35 Regular unleaded. $2.39 Diesel. (OUCH) Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:10 PM Don....I hear what you are saying in refineries...but world oil prices which are sky rocketing are not rising because of our deficiency in refinery capacity....and when that continues to happen everything made from crude will be rising in price. Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:25 PM Originally posted by spbed Where I live diesel is higher then 87 octane. What then is the benefit of a diesel engine? [:D][;)] Ahem... Desiel is measured over time it takes to complete a burn. It is called "Cetane" if memory serves. Cetane ratings of 50 or better really gives a Detroit or Caterpiller something to chew on. I will have to look it up. But we dont use the word octane with desiel fuel. Higher cetane levels provide greater power over time for the power stroke. Reply Edit eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:53 PM Last night I spent $30.00 for the first time in my life for 3/4 of a tank of gas in my company car...a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix....and am beginning to believe some folks who say we are all being hosed big time over this and somebody (spelled BIG OIL) is getting very rich over this...ARE YOU LISTENING MR. BUSH? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 7, 2005 6:58 AM Well I am listening to CNN this AM & they reported the future looks bleaker then the past. They said there is supposed to be a report issued at 0930 hrs today. They also said that a "normal" user of gas was now paying $300.00 per year more for gas then last year. [:(][xx(] Originally posted by eolafan Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply « First«567891011»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Randy Vos
"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings
"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV
Originally posted by rvos1979 [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 7:53 PM Bay area average 87 Octane $2.56 a gallon. Here the the Valley price for 87 Octane $2.52 a gallon and that ain't April fools! Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Saturday, April 2, 2005 8:13 AM Yep yesterday it closed over $57.00 a BRL. In case nobody has noticed the DJ is down like 600 points in a month. If you believe that the stock market is the harbinger of things to come then the future looks rather dim sorry to say. Mr bro lives in Menlo Park! [:o)][:I] Originally posted by passengerfan [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 2, 2005 11:10 AM Yeah prices are going up. in two weeks gas by me has gone from $1.95 a gallon to $2.03. *** money grubers![:(!] I guess i must be a luckier one at these prices.[|)] Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, April 2, 2005 1:50 PM spbed....Oh yes...I have noticed the stock market drop this month...and once again we had the report that 2005 was to be the year of a good stock market....Yea...once again similar to the last 4 years...! Quentin Reply selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Saturday, April 2, 2005 2:31 PM Reported on Candian Television last evening that Vancouver, BC, saw price go over $1.02 a liter for reg unleaded. Anybody interested in a nearly new Ameri-Camp 26 footer, fully loaded? Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 8:26 AM Biz pages of todays newspaper says oil went over $58.00 per BRL yestreday. Lower SE now in the mid $2.30s Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mucable Member sinceDecember 2001 47 posts Posted by mucable on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:24 AM I just looked over this thread and got to thinking that in six weeks the price of regular per gallon rose from $1.799 to $2.209 here in just 35 days! Now if those durn hybrids weren't so ugly...wait if it goes up another 40 cents in the next 35 days they might start looking better don't you think? Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:28 AM Filled up yesterday, the cheap stuff was about 2.27, and I paid 2.35 for diesel fuel. I just hope we're now using the summer blend of diesel. BTW, Prices were in Oregon, Just south of Madison, WI. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:35 AM ....I believe the price jumping as it is...{now 2.399 here in Muncie, In.}, is going to effect a bunch of folk's thinking...Including ours. Don't know just what direction it's going to effect but it is going to make some change... I would like to see massive programs started or {restarted}, for alternate fuels in this country. Haven't we been up and down this yo-yo enough NOT to be doing something about it.....A Manhattan project...forge ahead....!! The sooner the better. Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:50 AM Fully agree that some sought of federal program has to begun to get us to self sufficency in oil at the earliest possible moment! [:(][:(] Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:52 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar ....I believe the price jumping as it is...{now 2.399 here in Muncie, In.}, is going to effect a bunch of folk's thinking...Including ours. Don't know just what direction it's going to effect but it is going to make some change... I would like to see massive programs started or {restarted}, for alternate fuels in this country. Haven't we been up and down this yo-yo enough NOT to be doing something about it.....A Manhattan project...forge ahead....!! The sooner the better. Modelcar, Sounds like Wisconsin is trying to do something about it, by the end of 2006 we should have at least one, maybe two more ethanol plants in operation, plus I heard the state government is trying to get a bill through that would require 10% ethanol in all gasoline sold in WI. Someone told me not long ago that GM has a little known option that would prep the vehicle to run on E-85, or 85 percent ethanol, and gasoline. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:03 AM There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:11 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ I think it's the same stuff. I do know E-85 is 100 octane, though. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply bnsfkline Member sinceOctober 2002 From: St. Louis Area, Florrisant to be specific!!!!!!!!! 1,134 posts Posted by bnsfkline on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:33 AM Gas just went from 1.88 to 2.29 in 2 weeks! Time to sell my car (8 cyl engine) Jim Tiroch RIP Saveria DiBlasi - My First True Love and a Great Railfanning Companion Saveria Danielle DiBlasi Feb 5th, 1986 - Nov 4th, 2008 Check em out! My photos that is: http://bnsfkline.rrpicturearchives.net and ALS2001 Productions http://www.youtube.com/ALS2001 Reply greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:41 AM A while back the Wall Street Journal had a good story on the oil shale in Wyoming. According to them, there's enough petroleum in the shale to make the US self sufficient. Development of production began with the first oil shock way back when. But it became uneconomic to produce oil from the shale when oil dropped back below $30/bbl. The investments by the oil companies were written off and the facilities shuttered. Well, now we're back above $30/bbl. Way above $30. This makes oil shale development economically feasible again. But investors are holding back, they know if the price goes down they'll loose their investments again. To goose things along the Dept. of Defnese will begin to purchase part of its fuel requirements from shale sources. Makes sense to me. Send the tax $$ to Wyoming instead of offshore. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply dekemd Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 286 posts Posted by dekemd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:12 PM I've heard a lot of talk about the need for people to reduce their oil consumption, and the lack of refining facilities creating supply problems. So why is it that NASCAR can waste 10's of thousands of gallons of gas every week and no one seems to care. Think of how much gas race teams use during testing, practices, qualifying, and races each week. Multiply that by the many Nascar teams, plus add in all the lessor racing series across the country and you have a large amount of fuel that is being wasted. Some might say that what they use is just a drop in the bucket compared to the overall consumption, but all those little drops in the bucket add up. Just my $.02 Derrick Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:19 PM Just a couple of thoughts... first, my Honda Hybrid looks like any other Honda Civic, except that you don't see it at gas stations so often (46 mpg in Connecticut's horrendous traffic). Second, that $30/bbl economic figure for oil shale was indeed way back when; the break even now is at least $70, and maybe higher. That's called 'inflation'. There are some interesting environmental problems with the stuff, too. Third, Canada has, in Alberta, oil sands which are easier to process than oil shale. Both will be coming, though. Fourth, don't weep to much: if you think you have problems, a cousin of mine in Truro, NS reports he's paying the equivalent of $3.95 US per gallon. That's coming, too, friends! Jamie Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 4:37 PM ....We have all kinds of possibilities coming at us regarding this seemingly upward spiral of oil prices....I for one am tired of the yo-yo and bowing to the oil producing countries. I say our government needs to assemble a massive team of industry experts and let the heads banner back and forth until we decide what can be done in this country or another free world country and get started with it...Do we want to be slaves to these sheiks the rest of our lives....I'd believe not. Let's get on with it...Fast...! Now... As for Nascar "wasting oil"...Are we going to stop everything that is done for entertainment in the country...Stop one, stop all....100,000 folks to a ball game of sorts requires fuel oil to get them there so don't just pick on one sport....I'd say we go on living but put our heads together and come up with solutions so we once and for all can tell the folks over there in the mid east we will not be their slaves much longer....Let them have to drink the stuff...! I think they need us almost as much as we need them.... By the way, they don't make too many products over there so they might get an attitude change pretty quick if we really get on some major fuel programs in this country...{Meaning they don't really have too much else to sell}.... Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 5:59 PM During the Carter administration the oil depletion allowance was taken from the oil industry. The result, no new refineries built in America since 1976....I stand corrected.... Nobody is going to invest into any refinery unless they are able to depreciate it.....that's business...... Refineries are a capital cost in the ledger similar to transmission lines for the utility companies..... They don't earn a profit.... A utility companies earns a profit selling electricity by the kilowatt hour, an oil company earns a profit selling gasoline..... Since our refineries are running at peak production, there won't be any more gas avialable anytime soon. The kicker is that consumption is up, has been going up ever since the first oil embargo in the early 1970s....at a consistent rate..... Gasoline could possibly be $3 a gallon by the end of the year, and possibly $5 a gallon by the end of next year.... if not higher..... We either need to cut consumption, or increase production.... Its that simple..... To convert to fuel cells and/or hybrid cars, we'll need to build a huge amount of batteries, which are a disaster to the environment..... To convert to ethanol we'll need to farm more land than what's being farmed today to replace oil..... Hydrogen is a pipe dream, to create it we must use/burn more energy than what we get..... However, we are the Saudi Arabia in coal.... maybe we should convert to steam.....using coal...... Or maybe we should do the right thing and cut consumption..... It should be a crime against society for anyone to drive a car or truck with more than 4 cyclinders..... Reply Edit selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 7:02 PM Dekemd, yes, and think of the expense of flight. One 767 turbofan consumes more fuel in one minute of cruising altitude flight than it takes to run the average Honda for a month! Hawaii, here I come. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:58 PM Blair,Neb. $2.25 Ethonol. $2.35 Regular unleaded. $2.39 Diesel. (OUCH) Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:10 PM Don....I hear what you are saying in refineries...but world oil prices which are sky rocketing are not rising because of our deficiency in refinery capacity....and when that continues to happen everything made from crude will be rising in price. Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:25 PM Originally posted by spbed Where I live diesel is higher then 87 octane. What then is the benefit of a diesel engine? [:D][;)] Ahem... Desiel is measured over time it takes to complete a burn. It is called "Cetane" if memory serves. Cetane ratings of 50 or better really gives a Detroit or Caterpiller something to chew on. I will have to look it up. But we dont use the word octane with desiel fuel. Higher cetane levels provide greater power over time for the power stroke. Reply Edit eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:53 PM Last night I spent $30.00 for the first time in my life for 3/4 of a tank of gas in my company car...a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix....and am beginning to believe some folks who say we are all being hosed big time over this and somebody (spelled BIG OIL) is getting very rich over this...ARE YOU LISTENING MR. BUSH? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 7, 2005 6:58 AM Well I am listening to CNN this AM & they reported the future looks bleaker then the past. They said there is supposed to be a report issued at 0930 hrs today. They also said that a "normal" user of gas was now paying $300.00 per year more for gas then last year. [:(][xx(] Originally posted by eolafan Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply « First«567891011»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by passengerfan [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 2, 2005 11:10 AM Yeah prices are going up. in two weeks gas by me has gone from $1.95 a gallon to $2.03. *** money grubers![:(!] I guess i must be a luckier one at these prices.[|)] Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, April 2, 2005 1:50 PM spbed....Oh yes...I have noticed the stock market drop this month...and once again we had the report that 2005 was to be the year of a good stock market....Yea...once again similar to the last 4 years...! Quentin Reply selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Saturday, April 2, 2005 2:31 PM Reported on Candian Television last evening that Vancouver, BC, saw price go over $1.02 a liter for reg unleaded. Anybody interested in a nearly new Ameri-Camp 26 footer, fully loaded? Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 8:26 AM Biz pages of todays newspaper says oil went over $58.00 per BRL yestreday. Lower SE now in the mid $2.30s Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mucable Member sinceDecember 2001 47 posts Posted by mucable on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:24 AM I just looked over this thread and got to thinking that in six weeks the price of regular per gallon rose from $1.799 to $2.209 here in just 35 days! Now if those durn hybrids weren't so ugly...wait if it goes up another 40 cents in the next 35 days they might start looking better don't you think? Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:28 AM Filled up yesterday, the cheap stuff was about 2.27, and I paid 2.35 for diesel fuel. I just hope we're now using the summer blend of diesel. BTW, Prices were in Oregon, Just south of Madison, WI. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:35 AM ....I believe the price jumping as it is...{now 2.399 here in Muncie, In.}, is going to effect a bunch of folk's thinking...Including ours. Don't know just what direction it's going to effect but it is going to make some change... I would like to see massive programs started or {restarted}, for alternate fuels in this country. Haven't we been up and down this yo-yo enough NOT to be doing something about it.....A Manhattan project...forge ahead....!! The sooner the better. Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:50 AM Fully agree that some sought of federal program has to begun to get us to self sufficency in oil at the earliest possible moment! [:(][:(] Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:52 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar ....I believe the price jumping as it is...{now 2.399 here in Muncie, In.}, is going to effect a bunch of folk's thinking...Including ours. Don't know just what direction it's going to effect but it is going to make some change... I would like to see massive programs started or {restarted}, for alternate fuels in this country. Haven't we been up and down this yo-yo enough NOT to be doing something about it.....A Manhattan project...forge ahead....!! The sooner the better. Modelcar, Sounds like Wisconsin is trying to do something about it, by the end of 2006 we should have at least one, maybe two more ethanol plants in operation, plus I heard the state government is trying to get a bill through that would require 10% ethanol in all gasoline sold in WI. Someone told me not long ago that GM has a little known option that would prep the vehicle to run on E-85, or 85 percent ethanol, and gasoline. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:03 AM There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:11 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ I think it's the same stuff. I do know E-85 is 100 octane, though. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply bnsfkline Member sinceOctober 2002 From: St. Louis Area, Florrisant to be specific!!!!!!!!! 1,134 posts Posted by bnsfkline on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:33 AM Gas just went from 1.88 to 2.29 in 2 weeks! Time to sell my car (8 cyl engine) Jim Tiroch RIP Saveria DiBlasi - My First True Love and a Great Railfanning Companion Saveria Danielle DiBlasi Feb 5th, 1986 - Nov 4th, 2008 Check em out! My photos that is: http://bnsfkline.rrpicturearchives.net and ALS2001 Productions http://www.youtube.com/ALS2001 Reply greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:41 AM A while back the Wall Street Journal had a good story on the oil shale in Wyoming. According to them, there's enough petroleum in the shale to make the US self sufficient. Development of production began with the first oil shock way back when. But it became uneconomic to produce oil from the shale when oil dropped back below $30/bbl. The investments by the oil companies were written off and the facilities shuttered. Well, now we're back above $30/bbl. Way above $30. This makes oil shale development economically feasible again. But investors are holding back, they know if the price goes down they'll loose their investments again. To goose things along the Dept. of Defnese will begin to purchase part of its fuel requirements from shale sources. Makes sense to me. Send the tax $$ to Wyoming instead of offshore. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply dekemd Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 286 posts Posted by dekemd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:12 PM I've heard a lot of talk about the need for people to reduce their oil consumption, and the lack of refining facilities creating supply problems. So why is it that NASCAR can waste 10's of thousands of gallons of gas every week and no one seems to care. Think of how much gas race teams use during testing, practices, qualifying, and races each week. Multiply that by the many Nascar teams, plus add in all the lessor racing series across the country and you have a large amount of fuel that is being wasted. Some might say that what they use is just a drop in the bucket compared to the overall consumption, but all those little drops in the bucket add up. Just my $.02 Derrick Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:19 PM Just a couple of thoughts... first, my Honda Hybrid looks like any other Honda Civic, except that you don't see it at gas stations so often (46 mpg in Connecticut's horrendous traffic). Second, that $30/bbl economic figure for oil shale was indeed way back when; the break even now is at least $70, and maybe higher. That's called 'inflation'. There are some interesting environmental problems with the stuff, too. Third, Canada has, in Alberta, oil sands which are easier to process than oil shale. Both will be coming, though. Fourth, don't weep to much: if you think you have problems, a cousin of mine in Truro, NS reports he's paying the equivalent of $3.95 US per gallon. That's coming, too, friends! Jamie Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 4:37 PM ....We have all kinds of possibilities coming at us regarding this seemingly upward spiral of oil prices....I for one am tired of the yo-yo and bowing to the oil producing countries. I say our government needs to assemble a massive team of industry experts and let the heads banner back and forth until we decide what can be done in this country or another free world country and get started with it...Do we want to be slaves to these sheiks the rest of our lives....I'd believe not. Let's get on with it...Fast...! Now... As for Nascar "wasting oil"...Are we going to stop everything that is done for entertainment in the country...Stop one, stop all....100,000 folks to a ball game of sorts requires fuel oil to get them there so don't just pick on one sport....I'd say we go on living but put our heads together and come up with solutions so we once and for all can tell the folks over there in the mid east we will not be their slaves much longer....Let them have to drink the stuff...! I think they need us almost as much as we need them.... By the way, they don't make too many products over there so they might get an attitude change pretty quick if we really get on some major fuel programs in this country...{Meaning they don't really have too much else to sell}.... Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 5:59 PM During the Carter administration the oil depletion allowance was taken from the oil industry. The result, no new refineries built in America since 1976....I stand corrected.... Nobody is going to invest into any refinery unless they are able to depreciate it.....that's business...... Refineries are a capital cost in the ledger similar to transmission lines for the utility companies..... They don't earn a profit.... A utility companies earns a profit selling electricity by the kilowatt hour, an oil company earns a profit selling gasoline..... Since our refineries are running at peak production, there won't be any more gas avialable anytime soon. The kicker is that consumption is up, has been going up ever since the first oil embargo in the early 1970s....at a consistent rate..... Gasoline could possibly be $3 a gallon by the end of the year, and possibly $5 a gallon by the end of next year.... if not higher..... We either need to cut consumption, or increase production.... Its that simple..... To convert to fuel cells and/or hybrid cars, we'll need to build a huge amount of batteries, which are a disaster to the environment..... To convert to ethanol we'll need to farm more land than what's being farmed today to replace oil..... Hydrogen is a pipe dream, to create it we must use/burn more energy than what we get..... However, we are the Saudi Arabia in coal.... maybe we should convert to steam.....using coal...... Or maybe we should do the right thing and cut consumption..... It should be a crime against society for anyone to drive a car or truck with more than 4 cyclinders..... Reply Edit selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 7:02 PM Dekemd, yes, and think of the expense of flight. One 767 turbofan consumes more fuel in one minute of cruising altitude flight than it takes to run the average Honda for a month! Hawaii, here I come. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:58 PM Blair,Neb. $2.25 Ethonol. $2.35 Regular unleaded. $2.39 Diesel. (OUCH) Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:10 PM Don....I hear what you are saying in refineries...but world oil prices which are sky rocketing are not rising because of our deficiency in refinery capacity....and when that continues to happen everything made from crude will be rising in price. Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:25 PM Originally posted by spbed Where I live diesel is higher then 87 octane. What then is the benefit of a diesel engine? [:D][;)] Ahem... Desiel is measured over time it takes to complete a burn. It is called "Cetane" if memory serves. Cetane ratings of 50 or better really gives a Detroit or Caterpiller something to chew on. I will have to look it up. But we dont use the word octane with desiel fuel. Higher cetane levels provide greater power over time for the power stroke. Reply Edit eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:53 PM Last night I spent $30.00 for the first time in my life for 3/4 of a tank of gas in my company car...a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix....and am beginning to believe some folks who say we are all being hosed big time over this and somebody (spelled BIG OIL) is getting very rich over this...ARE YOU LISTENING MR. BUSH? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 7, 2005 6:58 AM Well I am listening to CNN this AM & they reported the future looks bleaker then the past. They said there is supposed to be a report issued at 0930 hrs today. They also said that a "normal" user of gas was now paying $300.00 per year more for gas then last year. [:(][xx(] Originally posted by eolafan Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply « First«567891011»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Quentin
Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:52 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar ....I believe the price jumping as it is...{now 2.399 here in Muncie, In.}, is going to effect a bunch of folk's thinking...Including ours. Don't know just what direction it's going to effect but it is going to make some change... I would like to see massive programs started or {restarted}, for alternate fuels in this country. Haven't we been up and down this yo-yo enough NOT to be doing something about it.....A Manhattan project...forge ahead....!! The sooner the better. Modelcar, Sounds like Wisconsin is trying to do something about it, by the end of 2006 we should have at least one, maybe two more ethanol plants in operation, plus I heard the state government is trying to get a bill through that would require 10% ethanol in all gasoline sold in WI. Someone told me not long ago that GM has a little known option that would prep the vehicle to run on E-85, or 85 percent ethanol, and gasoline. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:03 AM There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:11 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ I think it's the same stuff. I do know E-85 is 100 octane, though. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply bnsfkline Member sinceOctober 2002 From: St. Louis Area, Florrisant to be specific!!!!!!!!! 1,134 posts Posted by bnsfkline on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:33 AM Gas just went from 1.88 to 2.29 in 2 weeks! Time to sell my car (8 cyl engine) Jim Tiroch RIP Saveria DiBlasi - My First True Love and a Great Railfanning Companion Saveria Danielle DiBlasi Feb 5th, 1986 - Nov 4th, 2008 Check em out! My photos that is: http://bnsfkline.rrpicturearchives.net and ALS2001 Productions http://www.youtube.com/ALS2001 Reply greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:41 AM A while back the Wall Street Journal had a good story on the oil shale in Wyoming. According to them, there's enough petroleum in the shale to make the US self sufficient. Development of production began with the first oil shock way back when. But it became uneconomic to produce oil from the shale when oil dropped back below $30/bbl. The investments by the oil companies were written off and the facilities shuttered. Well, now we're back above $30/bbl. Way above $30. This makes oil shale development economically feasible again. But investors are holding back, they know if the price goes down they'll loose their investments again. To goose things along the Dept. of Defnese will begin to purchase part of its fuel requirements from shale sources. Makes sense to me. Send the tax $$ to Wyoming instead of offshore. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply dekemd Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 286 posts Posted by dekemd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:12 PM I've heard a lot of talk about the need for people to reduce their oil consumption, and the lack of refining facilities creating supply problems. So why is it that NASCAR can waste 10's of thousands of gallons of gas every week and no one seems to care. Think of how much gas race teams use during testing, practices, qualifying, and races each week. Multiply that by the many Nascar teams, plus add in all the lessor racing series across the country and you have a large amount of fuel that is being wasted. Some might say that what they use is just a drop in the bucket compared to the overall consumption, but all those little drops in the bucket add up. Just my $.02 Derrick Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:19 PM Just a couple of thoughts... first, my Honda Hybrid looks like any other Honda Civic, except that you don't see it at gas stations so often (46 mpg in Connecticut's horrendous traffic). Second, that $30/bbl economic figure for oil shale was indeed way back when; the break even now is at least $70, and maybe higher. That's called 'inflation'. There are some interesting environmental problems with the stuff, too. Third, Canada has, in Alberta, oil sands which are easier to process than oil shale. Both will be coming, though. Fourth, don't weep to much: if you think you have problems, a cousin of mine in Truro, NS reports he's paying the equivalent of $3.95 US per gallon. That's coming, too, friends! Jamie Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 4:37 PM ....We have all kinds of possibilities coming at us regarding this seemingly upward spiral of oil prices....I for one am tired of the yo-yo and bowing to the oil producing countries. I say our government needs to assemble a massive team of industry experts and let the heads banner back and forth until we decide what can be done in this country or another free world country and get started with it...Do we want to be slaves to these sheiks the rest of our lives....I'd believe not. Let's get on with it...Fast...! Now... As for Nascar "wasting oil"...Are we going to stop everything that is done for entertainment in the country...Stop one, stop all....100,000 folks to a ball game of sorts requires fuel oil to get them there so don't just pick on one sport....I'd say we go on living but put our heads together and come up with solutions so we once and for all can tell the folks over there in the mid east we will not be their slaves much longer....Let them have to drink the stuff...! I think they need us almost as much as we need them.... By the way, they don't make too many products over there so they might get an attitude change pretty quick if we really get on some major fuel programs in this country...{Meaning they don't really have too much else to sell}.... Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 5:59 PM During the Carter administration the oil depletion allowance was taken from the oil industry. The result, no new refineries built in America since 1976....I stand corrected.... Nobody is going to invest into any refinery unless they are able to depreciate it.....that's business...... Refineries are a capital cost in the ledger similar to transmission lines for the utility companies..... They don't earn a profit.... A utility companies earns a profit selling electricity by the kilowatt hour, an oil company earns a profit selling gasoline..... Since our refineries are running at peak production, there won't be any more gas avialable anytime soon. The kicker is that consumption is up, has been going up ever since the first oil embargo in the early 1970s....at a consistent rate..... Gasoline could possibly be $3 a gallon by the end of the year, and possibly $5 a gallon by the end of next year.... if not higher..... We either need to cut consumption, or increase production.... Its that simple..... To convert to fuel cells and/or hybrid cars, we'll need to build a huge amount of batteries, which are a disaster to the environment..... To convert to ethanol we'll need to farm more land than what's being farmed today to replace oil..... Hydrogen is a pipe dream, to create it we must use/burn more energy than what we get..... However, we are the Saudi Arabia in coal.... maybe we should convert to steam.....using coal...... Or maybe we should do the right thing and cut consumption..... It should be a crime against society for anyone to drive a car or truck with more than 4 cyclinders..... Reply Edit selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 7:02 PM Dekemd, yes, and think of the expense of flight. One 767 turbofan consumes more fuel in one minute of cruising altitude flight than it takes to run the average Honda for a month! Hawaii, here I come. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:58 PM Blair,Neb. $2.25 Ethonol. $2.35 Regular unleaded. $2.39 Diesel. (OUCH) Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:10 PM Don....I hear what you are saying in refineries...but world oil prices which are sky rocketing are not rising because of our deficiency in refinery capacity....and when that continues to happen everything made from crude will be rising in price. Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:25 PM Originally posted by spbed Where I live diesel is higher then 87 octane. What then is the benefit of a diesel engine? [:D][;)] Ahem... Desiel is measured over time it takes to complete a burn. It is called "Cetane" if memory serves. Cetane ratings of 50 or better really gives a Detroit or Caterpiller something to chew on. I will have to look it up. But we dont use the word octane with desiel fuel. Higher cetane levels provide greater power over time for the power stroke. Reply Edit eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:53 PM Last night I spent $30.00 for the first time in my life for 3/4 of a tank of gas in my company car...a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix....and am beginning to believe some folks who say we are all being hosed big time over this and somebody (spelled BIG OIL) is getting very rich over this...ARE YOU LISTENING MR. BUSH? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 7, 2005 6:58 AM Well I am listening to CNN this AM & they reported the future looks bleaker then the past. They said there is supposed to be a report issued at 0930 hrs today. They also said that a "normal" user of gas was now paying $300.00 per year more for gas then last year. [:(][xx(] Originally posted by eolafan Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply « First«567891011»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar ....I believe the price jumping as it is...{now 2.399 here in Muncie, In.}, is going to effect a bunch of folk's thinking...Including ours. Don't know just what direction it's going to effect but it is going to make some change... I would like to see massive programs started or {restarted}, for alternate fuels in this country. Haven't we been up and down this yo-yo enough NOT to be doing something about it.....A Manhattan project...forge ahead....!! The sooner the better.
Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:11 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ I think it's the same stuff. I do know E-85 is 100 octane, though. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply bnsfkline Member sinceOctober 2002 From: St. Louis Area, Florrisant to be specific!!!!!!!!! 1,134 posts Posted by bnsfkline on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:33 AM Gas just went from 1.88 to 2.29 in 2 weeks! Time to sell my car (8 cyl engine) Jim Tiroch RIP Saveria DiBlasi - My First True Love and a Great Railfanning Companion Saveria Danielle DiBlasi Feb 5th, 1986 - Nov 4th, 2008 Check em out! My photos that is: http://bnsfkline.rrpicturearchives.net and ALS2001 Productions http://www.youtube.com/ALS2001 Reply greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:41 AM A while back the Wall Street Journal had a good story on the oil shale in Wyoming. According to them, there's enough petroleum in the shale to make the US self sufficient. Development of production began with the first oil shock way back when. But it became uneconomic to produce oil from the shale when oil dropped back below $30/bbl. The investments by the oil companies were written off and the facilities shuttered. Well, now we're back above $30/bbl. Way above $30. This makes oil shale development economically feasible again. But investors are holding back, they know if the price goes down they'll loose their investments again. To goose things along the Dept. of Defnese will begin to purchase part of its fuel requirements from shale sources. Makes sense to me. Send the tax $$ to Wyoming instead of offshore. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply dekemd Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 286 posts Posted by dekemd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:12 PM I've heard a lot of talk about the need for people to reduce their oil consumption, and the lack of refining facilities creating supply problems. So why is it that NASCAR can waste 10's of thousands of gallons of gas every week and no one seems to care. Think of how much gas race teams use during testing, practices, qualifying, and races each week. Multiply that by the many Nascar teams, plus add in all the lessor racing series across the country and you have a large amount of fuel that is being wasted. Some might say that what they use is just a drop in the bucket compared to the overall consumption, but all those little drops in the bucket add up. Just my $.02 Derrick Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:19 PM Just a couple of thoughts... first, my Honda Hybrid looks like any other Honda Civic, except that you don't see it at gas stations so often (46 mpg in Connecticut's horrendous traffic). Second, that $30/bbl economic figure for oil shale was indeed way back when; the break even now is at least $70, and maybe higher. That's called 'inflation'. There are some interesting environmental problems with the stuff, too. Third, Canada has, in Alberta, oil sands which are easier to process than oil shale. Both will be coming, though. Fourth, don't weep to much: if you think you have problems, a cousin of mine in Truro, NS reports he's paying the equivalent of $3.95 US per gallon. That's coming, too, friends! Jamie Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 4:37 PM ....We have all kinds of possibilities coming at us regarding this seemingly upward spiral of oil prices....I for one am tired of the yo-yo and bowing to the oil producing countries. I say our government needs to assemble a massive team of industry experts and let the heads banner back and forth until we decide what can be done in this country or another free world country and get started with it...Do we want to be slaves to these sheiks the rest of our lives....I'd believe not. Let's get on with it...Fast...! Now... As for Nascar "wasting oil"...Are we going to stop everything that is done for entertainment in the country...Stop one, stop all....100,000 folks to a ball game of sorts requires fuel oil to get them there so don't just pick on one sport....I'd say we go on living but put our heads together and come up with solutions so we once and for all can tell the folks over there in the mid east we will not be their slaves much longer....Let them have to drink the stuff...! I think they need us almost as much as we need them.... By the way, they don't make too many products over there so they might get an attitude change pretty quick if we really get on some major fuel programs in this country...{Meaning they don't really have too much else to sell}.... Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 5:59 PM During the Carter administration the oil depletion allowance was taken from the oil industry. The result, no new refineries built in America since 1976....I stand corrected.... Nobody is going to invest into any refinery unless they are able to depreciate it.....that's business...... Refineries are a capital cost in the ledger similar to transmission lines for the utility companies..... They don't earn a profit.... A utility companies earns a profit selling electricity by the kilowatt hour, an oil company earns a profit selling gasoline..... Since our refineries are running at peak production, there won't be any more gas avialable anytime soon. The kicker is that consumption is up, has been going up ever since the first oil embargo in the early 1970s....at a consistent rate..... Gasoline could possibly be $3 a gallon by the end of the year, and possibly $5 a gallon by the end of next year.... if not higher..... We either need to cut consumption, or increase production.... Its that simple..... To convert to fuel cells and/or hybrid cars, we'll need to build a huge amount of batteries, which are a disaster to the environment..... To convert to ethanol we'll need to farm more land than what's being farmed today to replace oil..... Hydrogen is a pipe dream, to create it we must use/burn more energy than what we get..... However, we are the Saudi Arabia in coal.... maybe we should convert to steam.....using coal...... Or maybe we should do the right thing and cut consumption..... It should be a crime against society for anyone to drive a car or truck with more than 4 cyclinders..... Reply Edit selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 7:02 PM Dekemd, yes, and think of the expense of flight. One 767 turbofan consumes more fuel in one minute of cruising altitude flight than it takes to run the average Honda for a month! Hawaii, here I come. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:58 PM Blair,Neb. $2.25 Ethonol. $2.35 Regular unleaded. $2.39 Diesel. (OUCH) Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:10 PM Don....I hear what you are saying in refineries...but world oil prices which are sky rocketing are not rising because of our deficiency in refinery capacity....and when that continues to happen everything made from crude will be rising in price. Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:25 PM Originally posted by spbed Where I live diesel is higher then 87 octane. What then is the benefit of a diesel engine? [:D][;)] Ahem... Desiel is measured over time it takes to complete a burn. It is called "Cetane" if memory serves. Cetane ratings of 50 or better really gives a Detroit or Caterpiller something to chew on. I will have to look it up. But we dont use the word octane with desiel fuel. Higher cetane levels provide greater power over time for the power stroke. Reply Edit eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:53 PM Last night I spent $30.00 for the first time in my life for 3/4 of a tank of gas in my company car...a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix....and am beginning to believe some folks who say we are all being hosed big time over this and somebody (spelled BIG OIL) is getting very rich over this...ARE YOU LISTENING MR. BUSH? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 7, 2005 6:58 AM Well I am listening to CNN this AM & they reported the future looks bleaker then the past. They said there is supposed to be a report issued at 0930 hrs today. They also said that a "normal" user of gas was now paying $300.00 per year more for gas then last year. [:(][xx(] Originally posted by eolafan Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply « First«567891011»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by Modelcar [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:11 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ I think it's the same stuff. I do know E-85 is 100 octane, though. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply bnsfkline Member sinceOctober 2002 From: St. Louis Area, Florrisant to be specific!!!!!!!!! 1,134 posts Posted by bnsfkline on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:33 AM Gas just went from 1.88 to 2.29 in 2 weeks! Time to sell my car (8 cyl engine) Jim Tiroch RIP Saveria DiBlasi - My First True Love and a Great Railfanning Companion Saveria Danielle DiBlasi Feb 5th, 1986 - Nov 4th, 2008 Check em out! My photos that is: http://bnsfkline.rrpicturearchives.net and ALS2001 Productions http://www.youtube.com/ALS2001 Reply greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:41 AM A while back the Wall Street Journal had a good story on the oil shale in Wyoming. According to them, there's enough petroleum in the shale to make the US self sufficient. Development of production began with the first oil shock way back when. But it became uneconomic to produce oil from the shale when oil dropped back below $30/bbl. The investments by the oil companies were written off and the facilities shuttered. Well, now we're back above $30/bbl. Way above $30. This makes oil shale development economically feasible again. But investors are holding back, they know if the price goes down they'll loose their investments again. To goose things along the Dept. of Defnese will begin to purchase part of its fuel requirements from shale sources. Makes sense to me. Send the tax $$ to Wyoming instead of offshore. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply dekemd Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 286 posts Posted by dekemd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:12 PM I've heard a lot of talk about the need for people to reduce their oil consumption, and the lack of refining facilities creating supply problems. So why is it that NASCAR can waste 10's of thousands of gallons of gas every week and no one seems to care. Think of how much gas race teams use during testing, practices, qualifying, and races each week. Multiply that by the many Nascar teams, plus add in all the lessor racing series across the country and you have a large amount of fuel that is being wasted. Some might say that what they use is just a drop in the bucket compared to the overall consumption, but all those little drops in the bucket add up. Just my $.02 Derrick Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:19 PM Just a couple of thoughts... first, my Honda Hybrid looks like any other Honda Civic, except that you don't see it at gas stations so often (46 mpg in Connecticut's horrendous traffic). Second, that $30/bbl economic figure for oil shale was indeed way back when; the break even now is at least $70, and maybe higher. That's called 'inflation'. There are some interesting environmental problems with the stuff, too. Third, Canada has, in Alberta, oil sands which are easier to process than oil shale. Both will be coming, though. Fourth, don't weep to much: if you think you have problems, a cousin of mine in Truro, NS reports he's paying the equivalent of $3.95 US per gallon. That's coming, too, friends! Jamie Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 4:37 PM ....We have all kinds of possibilities coming at us regarding this seemingly upward spiral of oil prices....I for one am tired of the yo-yo and bowing to the oil producing countries. I say our government needs to assemble a massive team of industry experts and let the heads banner back and forth until we decide what can be done in this country or another free world country and get started with it...Do we want to be slaves to these sheiks the rest of our lives....I'd believe not. Let's get on with it...Fast...! Now... As for Nascar "wasting oil"...Are we going to stop everything that is done for entertainment in the country...Stop one, stop all....100,000 folks to a ball game of sorts requires fuel oil to get them there so don't just pick on one sport....I'd say we go on living but put our heads together and come up with solutions so we once and for all can tell the folks over there in the mid east we will not be their slaves much longer....Let them have to drink the stuff...! I think they need us almost as much as we need them.... By the way, they don't make too many products over there so they might get an attitude change pretty quick if we really get on some major fuel programs in this country...{Meaning they don't really have too much else to sell}.... Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 5:59 PM During the Carter administration the oil depletion allowance was taken from the oil industry. The result, no new refineries built in America since 1976....I stand corrected.... Nobody is going to invest into any refinery unless they are able to depreciate it.....that's business...... Refineries are a capital cost in the ledger similar to transmission lines for the utility companies..... They don't earn a profit.... A utility companies earns a profit selling electricity by the kilowatt hour, an oil company earns a profit selling gasoline..... Since our refineries are running at peak production, there won't be any more gas avialable anytime soon. The kicker is that consumption is up, has been going up ever since the first oil embargo in the early 1970s....at a consistent rate..... Gasoline could possibly be $3 a gallon by the end of the year, and possibly $5 a gallon by the end of next year.... if not higher..... We either need to cut consumption, or increase production.... Its that simple..... To convert to fuel cells and/or hybrid cars, we'll need to build a huge amount of batteries, which are a disaster to the environment..... To convert to ethanol we'll need to farm more land than what's being farmed today to replace oil..... Hydrogen is a pipe dream, to create it we must use/burn more energy than what we get..... However, we are the Saudi Arabia in coal.... maybe we should convert to steam.....using coal...... Or maybe we should do the right thing and cut consumption..... It should be a crime against society for anyone to drive a car or truck with more than 4 cyclinders..... Reply Edit selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 7:02 PM Dekemd, yes, and think of the expense of flight. One 767 turbofan consumes more fuel in one minute of cruising altitude flight than it takes to run the average Honda for a month! Hawaii, here I come. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:58 PM Blair,Neb. $2.25 Ethonol. $2.35 Regular unleaded. $2.39 Diesel. (OUCH) Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:10 PM Don....I hear what you are saying in refineries...but world oil prices which are sky rocketing are not rising because of our deficiency in refinery capacity....and when that continues to happen everything made from crude will be rising in price. Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:25 PM Originally posted by spbed Where I live diesel is higher then 87 octane. What then is the benefit of a diesel engine? [:D][;)] Ahem... Desiel is measured over time it takes to complete a burn. It is called "Cetane" if memory serves. Cetane ratings of 50 or better really gives a Detroit or Caterpiller something to chew on. I will have to look it up. But we dont use the word octane with desiel fuel. Higher cetane levels provide greater power over time for the power stroke. Reply Edit eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:53 PM Last night I spent $30.00 for the first time in my life for 3/4 of a tank of gas in my company car...a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix....and am beginning to believe some folks who say we are all being hosed big time over this and somebody (spelled BIG OIL) is getting very rich over this...ARE YOU LISTENING MR. BUSH? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 7, 2005 6:58 AM Well I am listening to CNN this AM & they reported the future looks bleaker then the past. They said there is supposed to be a report issued at 0930 hrs today. They also said that a "normal" user of gas was now paying $300.00 per year more for gas then last year. [:(][xx(] Originally posted by eolafan Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply « First«567891011»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed There was something that I use to get in NJ in the 70s called Gasahol? The octane was the same as the highest price gas today. [;)] Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ I think it's the same stuff. I do know E-85 is 100 octane, though. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply bnsfkline Member sinceOctober 2002 From: St. Louis Area, Florrisant to be specific!!!!!!!!! 1,134 posts Posted by bnsfkline on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:33 AM Gas just went from 1.88 to 2.29 in 2 weeks! Time to sell my car (8 cyl engine) Jim Tiroch RIP Saveria DiBlasi - My First True Love and a Great Railfanning Companion Saveria Danielle DiBlasi Feb 5th, 1986 - Nov 4th, 2008 Check em out! My photos that is: http://bnsfkline.rrpicturearchives.net and ALS2001 Productions http://www.youtube.com/ALS2001 Reply greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:41 AM A while back the Wall Street Journal had a good story on the oil shale in Wyoming. According to them, there's enough petroleum in the shale to make the US self sufficient. Development of production began with the first oil shock way back when. But it became uneconomic to produce oil from the shale when oil dropped back below $30/bbl. The investments by the oil companies were written off and the facilities shuttered. Well, now we're back above $30/bbl. Way above $30. This makes oil shale development economically feasible again. But investors are holding back, they know if the price goes down they'll loose their investments again. To goose things along the Dept. of Defnese will begin to purchase part of its fuel requirements from shale sources. Makes sense to me. Send the tax $$ to Wyoming instead of offshore. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply dekemd Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 286 posts Posted by dekemd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:12 PM I've heard a lot of talk about the need for people to reduce their oil consumption, and the lack of refining facilities creating supply problems. So why is it that NASCAR can waste 10's of thousands of gallons of gas every week and no one seems to care. Think of how much gas race teams use during testing, practices, qualifying, and races each week. Multiply that by the many Nascar teams, plus add in all the lessor racing series across the country and you have a large amount of fuel that is being wasted. Some might say that what they use is just a drop in the bucket compared to the overall consumption, but all those little drops in the bucket add up. Just my $.02 Derrick Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:19 PM Just a couple of thoughts... first, my Honda Hybrid looks like any other Honda Civic, except that you don't see it at gas stations so often (46 mpg in Connecticut's horrendous traffic). Second, that $30/bbl economic figure for oil shale was indeed way back when; the break even now is at least $70, and maybe higher. That's called 'inflation'. There are some interesting environmental problems with the stuff, too. Third, Canada has, in Alberta, oil sands which are easier to process than oil shale. Both will be coming, though. Fourth, don't weep to much: if you think you have problems, a cousin of mine in Truro, NS reports he's paying the equivalent of $3.95 US per gallon. That's coming, too, friends! Jamie Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 4:37 PM ....We have all kinds of possibilities coming at us regarding this seemingly upward spiral of oil prices....I for one am tired of the yo-yo and bowing to the oil producing countries. I say our government needs to assemble a massive team of industry experts and let the heads banner back and forth until we decide what can be done in this country or another free world country and get started with it...Do we want to be slaves to these sheiks the rest of our lives....I'd believe not. Let's get on with it...Fast...! Now... As for Nascar "wasting oil"...Are we going to stop everything that is done for entertainment in the country...Stop one, stop all....100,000 folks to a ball game of sorts requires fuel oil to get them there so don't just pick on one sport....I'd say we go on living but put our heads together and come up with solutions so we once and for all can tell the folks over there in the mid east we will not be their slaves much longer....Let them have to drink the stuff...! I think they need us almost as much as we need them.... By the way, they don't make too many products over there so they might get an attitude change pretty quick if we really get on some major fuel programs in this country...{Meaning they don't really have too much else to sell}.... Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 5:59 PM During the Carter administration the oil depletion allowance was taken from the oil industry. The result, no new refineries built in America since 1976....I stand corrected.... Nobody is going to invest into any refinery unless they are able to depreciate it.....that's business...... Refineries are a capital cost in the ledger similar to transmission lines for the utility companies..... They don't earn a profit.... A utility companies earns a profit selling electricity by the kilowatt hour, an oil company earns a profit selling gasoline..... Since our refineries are running at peak production, there won't be any more gas avialable anytime soon. The kicker is that consumption is up, has been going up ever since the first oil embargo in the early 1970s....at a consistent rate..... Gasoline could possibly be $3 a gallon by the end of the year, and possibly $5 a gallon by the end of next year.... if not higher..... We either need to cut consumption, or increase production.... Its that simple..... To convert to fuel cells and/or hybrid cars, we'll need to build a huge amount of batteries, which are a disaster to the environment..... To convert to ethanol we'll need to farm more land than what's being farmed today to replace oil..... Hydrogen is a pipe dream, to create it we must use/burn more energy than what we get..... However, we are the Saudi Arabia in coal.... maybe we should convert to steam.....using coal...... Or maybe we should do the right thing and cut consumption..... It should be a crime against society for anyone to drive a car or truck with more than 4 cyclinders..... Reply Edit selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 7:02 PM Dekemd, yes, and think of the expense of flight. One 767 turbofan consumes more fuel in one minute of cruising altitude flight than it takes to run the average Honda for a month! Hawaii, here I come. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:58 PM Blair,Neb. $2.25 Ethonol. $2.35 Regular unleaded. $2.39 Diesel. (OUCH) Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:10 PM Don....I hear what you are saying in refineries...but world oil prices which are sky rocketing are not rising because of our deficiency in refinery capacity....and when that continues to happen everything made from crude will be rising in price. Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:25 PM Originally posted by spbed Where I live diesel is higher then 87 octane. What then is the benefit of a diesel engine? [:D][;)] Ahem... Desiel is measured over time it takes to complete a burn. It is called "Cetane" if memory serves. Cetane ratings of 50 or better really gives a Detroit or Caterpiller something to chew on. I will have to look it up. But we dont use the word octane with desiel fuel. Higher cetane levels provide greater power over time for the power stroke. Reply Edit eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:53 PM Last night I spent $30.00 for the first time in my life for 3/4 of a tank of gas in my company car...a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix....and am beginning to believe some folks who say we are all being hosed big time over this and somebody (spelled BIG OIL) is getting very rich over this...ARE YOU LISTENING MR. BUSH? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 7, 2005 6:58 AM Well I am listening to CNN this AM & they reported the future looks bleaker then the past. They said there is supposed to be a report issued at 0930 hrs today. They also said that a "normal" user of gas was now paying $300.00 per year more for gas then last year. [:(][xx(] Originally posted by eolafan Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply « First«567891011»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by rvos1979 Originally posted by Modelcar [ I think it's the same stuff. I do know E-85 is 100 octane, though. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply bnsfkline Member sinceOctober 2002 From: St. Louis Area, Florrisant to be specific!!!!!!!!! 1,134 posts Posted by bnsfkline on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:33 AM Gas just went from 1.88 to 2.29 in 2 weeks! Time to sell my car (8 cyl engine) Jim Tiroch RIP Saveria DiBlasi - My First True Love and a Great Railfanning Companion Saveria Danielle DiBlasi Feb 5th, 1986 - Nov 4th, 2008 Check em out! My photos that is: http://bnsfkline.rrpicturearchives.net and ALS2001 Productions http://www.youtube.com/ALS2001 Reply greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:41 AM A while back the Wall Street Journal had a good story on the oil shale in Wyoming. According to them, there's enough petroleum in the shale to make the US self sufficient. Development of production began with the first oil shock way back when. But it became uneconomic to produce oil from the shale when oil dropped back below $30/bbl. The investments by the oil companies were written off and the facilities shuttered. Well, now we're back above $30/bbl. Way above $30. This makes oil shale development economically feasible again. But investors are holding back, they know if the price goes down they'll loose their investments again. To goose things along the Dept. of Defnese will begin to purchase part of its fuel requirements from shale sources. Makes sense to me. Send the tax $$ to Wyoming instead of offshore. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply dekemd Member sinceDecember 2002 From: US 286 posts Posted by dekemd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:12 PM I've heard a lot of talk about the need for people to reduce their oil consumption, and the lack of refining facilities creating supply problems. So why is it that NASCAR can waste 10's of thousands of gallons of gas every week and no one seems to care. Think of how much gas race teams use during testing, practices, qualifying, and races each week. Multiply that by the many Nascar teams, plus add in all the lessor racing series across the country and you have a large amount of fuel that is being wasted. Some might say that what they use is just a drop in the bucket compared to the overall consumption, but all those little drops in the bucket add up. Just my $.02 Derrick Reply jchnhtfd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 1,537 posts Posted by jchnhtfd on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 2:19 PM Just a couple of thoughts... first, my Honda Hybrid looks like any other Honda Civic, except that you don't see it at gas stations so often (46 mpg in Connecticut's horrendous traffic). Second, that $30/bbl economic figure for oil shale was indeed way back when; the break even now is at least $70, and maybe higher. That's called 'inflation'. There are some interesting environmental problems with the stuff, too. Third, Canada has, in Alberta, oil sands which are easier to process than oil shale. Both will be coming, though. Fourth, don't weep to much: if you think you have problems, a cousin of mine in Truro, NS reports he's paying the equivalent of $3.95 US per gallon. That's coming, too, friends! Jamie Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 4:37 PM ....We have all kinds of possibilities coming at us regarding this seemingly upward spiral of oil prices....I for one am tired of the yo-yo and bowing to the oil producing countries. I say our government needs to assemble a massive team of industry experts and let the heads banner back and forth until we decide what can be done in this country or another free world country and get started with it...Do we want to be slaves to these sheiks the rest of our lives....I'd believe not. Let's get on with it...Fast...! Now... As for Nascar "wasting oil"...Are we going to stop everything that is done for entertainment in the country...Stop one, stop all....100,000 folks to a ball game of sorts requires fuel oil to get them there so don't just pick on one sport....I'd say we go on living but put our heads together and come up with solutions so we once and for all can tell the folks over there in the mid east we will not be their slaves much longer....Let them have to drink the stuff...! I think they need us almost as much as we need them.... By the way, they don't make too many products over there so they might get an attitude change pretty quick if we really get on some major fuel programs in this country...{Meaning they don't really have too much else to sell}.... Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 5:59 PM During the Carter administration the oil depletion allowance was taken from the oil industry. The result, no new refineries built in America since 1976....I stand corrected.... Nobody is going to invest into any refinery unless they are able to depreciate it.....that's business...... Refineries are a capital cost in the ledger similar to transmission lines for the utility companies..... They don't earn a profit.... A utility companies earns a profit selling electricity by the kilowatt hour, an oil company earns a profit selling gasoline..... Since our refineries are running at peak production, there won't be any more gas avialable anytime soon. The kicker is that consumption is up, has been going up ever since the first oil embargo in the early 1970s....at a consistent rate..... Gasoline could possibly be $3 a gallon by the end of the year, and possibly $5 a gallon by the end of next year.... if not higher..... We either need to cut consumption, or increase production.... Its that simple..... To convert to fuel cells and/or hybrid cars, we'll need to build a huge amount of batteries, which are a disaster to the environment..... To convert to ethanol we'll need to farm more land than what's being farmed today to replace oil..... Hydrogen is a pipe dream, to create it we must use/burn more energy than what we get..... However, we are the Saudi Arabia in coal.... maybe we should convert to steam.....using coal...... Or maybe we should do the right thing and cut consumption..... It should be a crime against society for anyone to drive a car or truck with more than 4 cyclinders..... Reply Edit selector Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: Vancouver Island, BC 23,330 posts Posted by selector on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 7:02 PM Dekemd, yes, and think of the expense of flight. One 767 turbofan consumes more fuel in one minute of cruising altitude flight than it takes to run the average Honda for a month! Hawaii, here I come. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 9:58 PM Blair,Neb. $2.25 Ethonol. $2.35 Regular unleaded. $2.39 Diesel. (OUCH) Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:10 PM Don....I hear what you are saying in refineries...but world oil prices which are sky rocketing are not rising because of our deficiency in refinery capacity....and when that continues to happen everything made from crude will be rising in price. Quentin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:25 PM Originally posted by spbed Where I live diesel is higher then 87 octane. What then is the benefit of a diesel engine? [:D][;)] Ahem... Desiel is measured over time it takes to complete a burn. It is called "Cetane" if memory serves. Cetane ratings of 50 or better really gives a Detroit or Caterpiller something to chew on. I will have to look it up. But we dont use the word octane with desiel fuel. Higher cetane levels provide greater power over time for the power stroke. Reply Edit eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:53 PM Last night I spent $30.00 for the first time in my life for 3/4 of a tank of gas in my company car...a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix....and am beginning to believe some folks who say we are all being hosed big time over this and somebody (spelled BIG OIL) is getting very rich over this...ARE YOU LISTENING MR. BUSH? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 7, 2005 6:58 AM Well I am listening to CNN this AM & they reported the future looks bleaker then the past. They said there is supposed to be a report issued at 0930 hrs today. They also said that a "normal" user of gas was now paying $300.00 per year more for gas then last year. [:(][xx(] Originally posted by eolafan Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply « First«567891011»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by Modelcar [
Originally posted by spbed Where I live diesel is higher then 87 octane. What then is the benefit of a diesel engine? [:D][;)] Ahem... Desiel is measured over time it takes to complete a burn. It is called "Cetane" if memory serves. Cetane ratings of 50 or better really gives a Detroit or Caterpiller something to chew on. I will have to look it up. But we dont use the word octane with desiel fuel. Higher cetane levels provide greater power over time for the power stroke. Reply Edit eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 10:53 PM Last night I spent $30.00 for the first time in my life for 3/4 of a tank of gas in my company car...a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix....and am beginning to believe some folks who say we are all being hosed big time over this and somebody (spelled BIG OIL) is getting very rich over this...ARE YOU LISTENING MR. BUSH? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, April 7, 2005 6:58 AM Well I am listening to CNN this AM & they reported the future looks bleaker then the past. They said there is supposed to be a report issued at 0930 hrs today. They also said that a "normal" user of gas was now paying $300.00 per year more for gas then last year. [:(][xx(] Originally posted by eolafan Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply « First«567891011»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by eolafan Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply « First«567891011»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.