Yikes! Talk about overkill! In the old days all an anti-tank round had to do was punch a hole in the armor, either disabling the tank or killing or incapacitating the crew. Looks like those days are gone.
"The TOW 2b! When it absolutely, positively has to be destroyed immediately, if not sooner!"
BEAUSABREWas an AT platoon leader when we transitioned from the 106mm recoilless rifle to TOW. It was a great system and, like a fine wine, has only gotten better with age, TOW-2B has actually been around for a while. If fires an Explosively Formed Projectile into a tanks weakest armor, on the roof. This is what it does to the T-72 loaded with fuel and ammunition. (256) TOW 2b Missile Versus Russian T-72 Tank - YouTube And "Fires" battalion, my fanny, I don't care what they want to call it, it's Field Artillery - whether its tube, rocket, missile or catapult launched
(256) TOW 2b Missile Versus Russian T-72 Tank - YouTube
Was a poor bird killed in making this film? At 0.37, what appears to be a bird (and NOT a TOW) flies over the tank as a explosion occurs. Am not mourning the the bird, just wondering if TOW's now emulate birds. In later shots, can see the TOW before its explosion.
BEAUSABREWas an AT platoon leader when we transitioned from the 106mm recoilless rifle to TOW. It was a great system and, like a fine wine, has only gotten better with age, TOW-2B has actually been around for a while. If fires an Explosively Formed Projectile into a tanks weakest armor, on the roof.
Yeah I got an informal refresher course in 2009 at 101st Airborne Reunion courtesy of the 503rd Infantry (hosts).
Used to be a TOW2 Gunner left OSUT with Expert qualification.....still have the certificate signed by a full bird colonel. Amazing it is still in service.
I help Active Duty folks transition to civilian life (volunteer), ask about the TOW when I can for nostalgic reasons. :) Troops still love it.
Here in the U.K. we are comparing Russia's attack on Ukraine to Germany's invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1939.
Britain gave guarantees to preserve Poland's independence. Hence when Germany invaded Poland WW2 began.
Britain has given guarantees to preserve some former Russian States their Independence. Lithuania and Latvia to name two. Others have guarantees as well.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
BEAUSABREAnd "Fires" battalion, my fanny, I don't care what they want to call it, it's Field Artillery - whether its tube, rocket, missile or catapult launched
"Action left, action right, drop the trail and raise your sight!
"As the caissons go rolling along!
"Was it high? Was it low? Where the hell did THAT one go?
"As the caissons go rolling along!"
CMStPnPnew warheads including one that detonates above a tank
Was an AT platoon leader when we transitioned from the 106mm recoilless rifle to TOW. It was a great system and, like a fine wine, has only gotten better with age, TOW-2B has actually been around for a while. It fires an Explosively Formed Projectile into a tanks weakest armor, on the roof. This is what it does to the T-72 loaded with fuel and ammunition.
And "Fires" battalion, my fanny, I don't care what they want to call it, it's Field Artillery - whether its tube, rocket, missile or catapult launched
BEAUSABREIn a prior life I spent 25 years as an Armor officer. Last iteration I heard, the teeth of an Armored Brigade was
Post 2000 about 2010 they went to modular Brigades so that they have the flexibility now to deploy a BN by itself and have all the division support assets apportioned with it. So Brigades now only have 3-4 combat BN, the rest is overhead / logistics. So 101st Inf 3rd Brigade has maybe 2-3 Inf BN, 1 support BN called a BSB, etc. Further the Army horked it up more via attempting to preserve historical units with fabulous battle histories.
So 3rd Brigade 101st used to be 100% Rakkasan 5 bn of the 187th Infantry............those days are gone. Now it is Modularlized and Historicalized.....lol:
1st BN 187th.....filler because they need 3 Inf Bn (not really historical)
2nd BN 506th.....They had to preserve Easy Company of HBO movie fame (WWII).
3rd BN 187th......needs no intro "Hamburger Hill" among other famous battles.
1st Squadron 33rd Cav.........Cav Scouts (formerly 11 Series D MOS). Pathfinders, Recon, etc
21st Engineers....................Fighting pos prep, route clearence, LZ creation.
626th Brigade Support Bn (BSB) - Every Modular Brigade has one. All HQ elements like DFAS, Cooks, Legal, etc.
Artillery BN are called "FIRES BN" because they have MLRS, towed and now the new HiMARS system.
TOW is fire and forget now, with a lazer rangefinder and FLIR optics (enhanced thermal sights more or less). They have also added new warheads including one that detonates above a tank. Going on 50 years now and the Russians have not been able to defeat the TOW anti-tank missile (sad), evolves too fast.
JayBeeRussia also created their own version of Swift, but not many banks use it, so it has limited value.
It's rather humorous because both Russia and China feel they can replace SWIFT as well as the reserve currency.......neither of those countrys have clue #1 what makes either the currency of choice or the clearinghouse of choice. It has nothing to do with volume of payments, or what nations would like. It is driven by individual investors for the most part. Would you send $40,000 to a Russian clearinghouse knowing how that country is run financially? Same with China.
Yes you can force people to use the system but only people that are forced to deal with Russia directly. Reserve currency is another matter, it will never shift from the Dollar unless this country becomes insolvent, corrupt, and all our investing opportunities shift to high risk or go to crap. Of course if all of that happened we would have bigger issues to worry about than who had the reserve currency. United States is the largest and most stable economy. China and Russia will never change that via jawboning others to use their currencies instead as reserve currency......even using a basket of stable currencies as reserve will not work as well as the Dollar.
greyhoundsThis war could well get out of hand. I believe the Ukrainians will crack and the Russians will win. I don’t like that, but I see it as reality.
I don't know, if this article's accurate it might be an even bet as to who cracks first.
https://coffeeordie.com/putin-struggles-economic-sanctions/
At any rate considering the poor performance of the Russian Army as far as command, control, communications and logistics are concerned it strikes me that Mr. Putin, old KGB man that he is, has made the old Soviet mistake of putting people in the top command positions who are politically reliable instead of technically and tactically proficient.
My BIL is retired from the USAF lives down in SC near Shaw AFB. He's been seeing the planes leaving heading east with ferrying tanks installed on them. He's been hearing from his friends still active that most of the planes a combination of F16s and A10s are going to Germany as a tripwire force. The pilots are told it's an exercise as the ground crews weren't shipped over with them yet.
In a prior life I spent 25 years as an Armor officer. Last iteration I heard, the teeth of an Armored Brigade was
84 M1 Series Tanks (120mm gun)
56 M2 Series Infantry Fighting Vehicles (25mm gun & TOW missiles)
23 M3 Series Cavalry Fighting Vehicle (25mm gun & TOW missiles)
18 M109 Series 155mm Self Propelled Howitzers
In 2 Armored Combined Arms Battalions, 1 Mechanized Infantry Combined Arms Battalion, 1 Armored Cavalry Squadron and 1 Field Artillery Battalion
The tank guns can kill anything on the battlefield - the M829 tank round was the famous "Silver Bullet" of the First Gulf War and has been improved three times since to M829A3. So can BGM-71 TOW. The 25mm will kill older Russian tanks and all IFV's. The infantry will have Javelin AT missiles for when they dismount and they are doing a Jay Oh Bee on the Ivans in the hands of hastily trained troops. And the the 155's can fire SADARM (Seek And Destroy ARMor) rounds that find tanks themselves, FASCAM (FAmily of SCAaterable Mines) to create instant minefields and other nasty things.
I'll shut up now, before I go wildly off, off, off topic.
EuclidIt is said that they are being deployed to deter Russian aggression. How will they do that?
kgbw49 Euclid, China has developed their own version of SWIFT and Russia is using that. We need to watch what China does, not what it says.
Euclid, China has developed their own version of SWIFT and Russia is using that. We need to watch what China does, not what it says.
And they are still cashing the checks for the 500,000+ barrels of oil that the US is buying every day from Russia.
Ultimately, I think we are going to see Ukraine partitioned - NATO will set up a defensive perimeter across the western "leg" of Ukraine - about 1/4 of Ukraine - and it will be a North Korea-South Korea or East Germany-West Germany type of situation with a demilitarized zone. And families split again just like during the Cold War. Welcome to the new Cold War.
Newer reports say that the Ukrainians have regained control of the facility and put out the fire. It turns out that the fire was in some training and administration buildings.
I don't buy any of this idea that Ukraine and/or NATO somehow is/are partially responsible for Russia's current actions. Ukraine was not a threat to Putin in any way unless its now having an honest president concerned Putin and all his lackies in other parts of the old Soviet Union. NATO was not and never was a threat to topple his government. Putin's actions are entirely due to his desire to be the one who recreates either the old Russia empire or the Soviet Union. He only respects strength and has no use for shown or suspected weakness. [I will limit my political comment to saying I'm sure he feels the US and Europe are now quite weak or he wouldn't have done what he did.] He has the same disregard for human life as the 3 greatest tyrants of the 20th century--Mao, Hitler, and Stalin.
This situation bears too much of a resemblence to Europe in 1938 to make me feel confident that it will simply blow over in another several months. There are 2 main differences that could possibly make a difference--nuclear weapons and the power of trade & banking sanctions. But the existing sanctions probably aren't strong enough to do it.
An even bigger test for the world is if China will attack Taiwan which has no NATO to back it up. Then the world's future is up in the air.
This is now a nuclear involved conflict. The Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant, located in the eastern city of Enerhodar, was on fire late Thursday after being shelled by Russian forces.
https://news.yahoo.com/russian-troops-shell-ukrainian-nuclear-plant-010757408.html
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Euclid For the same reason we have a US Army division stationed in South Korea. The South Koreans don't really need us, they're more than capable of defending themselves, but the American troops are there as a "trigger" against a North Korean invasion. An invasion of South Korea would automatically mean war with the US. It's for the same reason we have troops in the Baltic States and Poland, not a lot, but they're the same "trigger" the troops in South Korea are. Where the 3d ID is off to I have no idea. Somewhere in Europe I suppose. CMStPnP U.S. just deployed 3rd Infantry Division. It is said that they are being deployed to deter Russian aggression. How will they do that?
For the same reason we have a US Army division stationed in South Korea. The South Koreans don't really need us, they're more than capable of defending themselves, but the American troops are there as a "trigger" against a North Korean invasion. An invasion of South Korea would automatically mean war with the US.
It's for the same reason we have troops in the Baltic States and Poland, not a lot, but they're the same "trigger" the troops in South Korea are.
Where the 3d ID is off to I have no idea. Somewhere in Europe I suppose.
CMStPnP U.S. just deployed 3rd Infantry Division.
CMStPnPU.S. just deployed 3rd Infantry Division.
U.S. just deployed 3rd Infantry Division. That will get Mr. Putin's attention as it is the first Mech unit with heavy Armor to be sent there. Russians are very paranoid of Armored units / Armored Divisions.....fear dates from WWII experience with Germans. They are going to draw from prepositioned stocks in Germany vs shipping their equipment over.
So from the railroad angle...........true they are based next to the port city of Savannah but if they were not.......looks like no military deployment train and they are going for speed of deployment using prepositioned stocks. It will be interesting if they deploy the 3rd Armored Division the same way if it is sent. The prepositioned equipment is also not as worn out as it is not used as freq as the equipment they left behind in GA.
Also, looks like we are increasing the number of deployed troops from what was stated before.
This sounds like China has reversed its support for the Putin war on Ukraine because China does not want to be sanctioned like Russia is. China is now denying any finacial support for Putin and Russia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scE9nWf7JXs
Flintlock76 CMStPnP Russia already moved borders in Eastern Europe via Stalin after WWII moving the Polish border West 100 miles, absorbing a significant part of East Prussia, etc. Stalin kept that big chunk of Poland he grabbed in 1939 by agreement with Hitler and never gave it back. The Russians haven't given it back to this day. The Polish western border was moved further west to "compensate" the Poles, who I'm sure would have preferred to have their own territory back.
CMStPnP Russia already moved borders in Eastern Europe via Stalin after WWII moving the Polish border West 100 miles, absorbing a significant part of East Prussia, etc.
Stalin kept that big chunk of Poland he grabbed in 1939 by agreement with Hitler and never gave it back. The Russians haven't given it back to this day. The Polish western border was moved further west to "compensate" the Poles, who I'm sure would have preferred to have their own territory back.
Probably so, but the compensatory territories in Germany were quite valuable with several fine cities,such as Breslau and Danzig in Silesia and Prussia respectively.
'76, I definitely understand the "register your tank" article was somewhat in jest and was a reference to the incredible bravery and espirit de corps of the whole Ukranian population. Heck, if I could send them a workable tank, any tank, even an M4A3E8 or a left-over M-50 or M-51, for $8,259, just let me know where to send the check. Those Ukrainains would use it to unleash hell back on the Russians.
But the problem is re-supply. Without secure supply routes, every day it is closer to the Ukrainians running out of ammuntion, and food, and water.
CMStPnP has it correct - the Russians don't care at all about "proportionate responses" or "collateral damage" that are touchsstones of the United States. They will wage total war - level the cities if necessary, starve the population to death if necessary, use tactical nuclear weapons if necessary, to subjugate Ukraine to the Russian jackboot.
They are digging in for the long siege of Kyiv. They are just working on bringing more artillery up. If they ring the city and cut off its supply routes, they can lob high explosives day and night, indiscriminately, into the city. Powerplants will be the first to go, and then water filtration plants, and then indiscriminate shelling.
I hate to say it but it seems like the only way Ukraine survives in any way as a country is if they can regroup and hold the western half of the country in a North and South Korea type of arrangement. But even that will take NATO becoming involved to be a protective shield over a portion of the country.
But the Iron Curtain is falling again over Eastern Europe, and this time, in the darkness of the wings, the Chinese Dragon is quietly providing aid and comfort to the Russian Bear, funded by the business interests of the good ol' USA.
Putin will press on - he has a benefactor nation in the background, and the condition of his own people in the short term is of no concern to him.
Convicted One Well, I've had a good day. Managed to say what I wanted to say, didn't anger anybody, didn't get moderated, thread didn't get locked. Can't really get much deeper without veering into politics. Think I'll quit while I'm ahead.
Well, I've had a good day. Managed to say what I wanted to say, didn't anger anybody, didn't get moderated, thread didn't get locked. Can't really get much deeper without veering into politics. Think I'll quit while I'm ahead.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Convicted OneI believe he was the very first serviceman to win the congressional medal of honor, twice?
I think he was. There were two other Marines awarded the MOH twice, one was Gunnery Sergeant Daniel Daly (Peking Relief force in 1900 and Belleau Wood in WW1) and Gunnery Sergeant Louis Chukela, both Army AND Navy/Marine Corps MOH's in WW1.
A great quote from Louis Chukela:
"It's not a fools errand I'm sending you on, if it was a fool's errand I'd go myself!"
charlie hebdoThis Russian military is not that of the old Soviet Union.
Having viewed it up close in 1984-1985 including its tanks and soldiers it was crap then. What is surprising is after all the billions spent by Putin on the military it is still poorly trained and their tanks can still be blown apart by our TOW missile system which was introduced in 1973........not to mention the much more portable Javellin. The Russian tanks cannot even accurately engage our TOW or our tanks before we can engage them......that is how bad they are. We have the standoff range advantage and it's one reason why we so quickly destroyed the tanks in Iraq. Also the targeting system on the M1 is so accurate.
charlie hebdo so it's massive artillery and rockets to try to smash cities to rubble.
This and attacking civilian populations directly is actually textbook Soviet. The initial tactics in Ukraine of only attempting to attack Military targets was a rather dumb attempt to mimic the United States and NATO. It didn't work because of the motivated population AND their conscripts are so poorly trained in urban warfare. Plus it is suspected the Russian smart weapons fall significantly short.
Euclida
EuclidUkraine would naturally prefer to be in NATO in order to prevent Russia’s aggression. Ukraine has asked to join NATO several years ago, but it is said that the process takes a long time, and has not yet been finalized.
Actually Ukraine had no interest in NATO until Russia invaded and took Crimea. Thats when it first started to ask about NATO. Up until that time it only wanted to be a member of the EU. Membership in the EU and the orientation towards Western Democracy is what alarmed Mr. Putin. Addionally conscripting for his Army or Alliance from an additional population of Ukraine would also make his military force larger. NATO initially balked at membership of Ukraine due to corruption and the concern that some Ukrainians could be bribed to do just about anything including pass NATO secrets to Russia. EU membership was stalled because Ukraine did not meet all the preconditions of a democracy that the EU has laid out............for some reason they waived some of those requirements recently and moved forwards on the EU Membership.
The whole NATO promised it would not expand Eastwards excuse is a Putin fabrication out of thin air that he started to make in 2007. You'll note that he insists it was verbal and there is of course no written record but also the promise was made prior to him being in power sooooo, how would he know? It's BS. The only promise made by NATO was not to deploy on the territory of the former GDR, that was the only promise made.
You also have to look at history here as well as every single one of the new East Bloc members of NATO have a long history of Russia attacking them, threatening invasion, or attempting to meddle in their internal affairs. Russia already moved borders in Eastern Europe via Stalin after WWII moving the Polish border West 100 miles, absorbing a significant part of East Prussia, etc. So the first Russian invasion happened after WWII. then the various spring protests of the 1960s met with Russian tanks, then threats to join the Russian Commonwealth or Alliance post 1990. It is not a surprise most of them fled to NATO's protective arm.
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