Ulrich but who knows, maybe I'm behind the times.
We all have that vulnerability. When I was growing up, $15/hr seemed like a lot of money. Now it would put you just one click above poverty. (despite still looking like "a lot of money" to many small business owners who grew up in olden times)
Convicted One but who knows, maybe I'm behind the times. We all have that vulnerability. When I was growing up, $15/hr seemed like a lot of money. Now it would put you just one click above poverty. (despite still looking like "a lot of money" to many small business owners who grew up in olden times)
but who knows, maybe I'm behind the times.
Same here.. once upon a time I served my country for $7.25/hr.. many moons ago.
Last year I met a retired railroader at one of my Bayview Junction outings. He told me that he started with Erie Lackwanna at $25/day..
Convicted One Ulrich but who knows, maybe I'm behind the times. We all have that vulnerability. When I was growing up, $15/hr seemed like a lot of money. Now it would put you just one click above poverty. (despite still looking like "a lot of money" to many small business owners who grew up in olden times)
My first 'non-training rate' job on the railroad in 1965 paid $2.903 a hour and in relative terms - I was living 'high on the hog'. But 1965 is 56 years ago and the price of hogs has gone up, way up.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Convicted One Ulrich but who knows, maybe I'm behind the times. We all have that vulnerability. When I was growing up, $15/hr seemed like a lot of money. Now it would put you just one click above poverty. (despite still looking like "a lot of money" to many small business owners who grew up in olden times) My first 'non-training rate' job on the railroad in 1965 paid $2.903 a hour and in relative terms - I was living 'high on the hog'. But 1965 is 56 years ago and the price of hogs has gone up, way up.
Yes, I was "getting rich" pumping gas at the local Gulf in 79.. $3.25/hr..
Ulrich Yes, I was "getting rich" pumping gas at the local Gulf in 79.. $3.25/hr..
I was getting even richer picking up garbage at $2.65/hr in 1978. We used to joke "minimum wage and all you can eat."
My earlier use of the word "bonanza" really had a sarcastic intent, although I can see now where I did not emphasize that aspect adequately, to make the point I had intended.
There are just some jobs out there that are so unpleasant, that the employers have just accepted that no one is going to choose to remain any longer than they absolutely must, before finding an alternative. Frequently those operations have to offer a sweetener, financially, to compensate for the unpleasantry. That was my wistful stab at "bonanza".
We've got one company in particular here locally, that their speciality is fabricating bar joists. Notorious for being an unpleasant place to work . If you are a senior welder, it not too bad a place to work, but the grunts really hate that place.
So, all the local assistance centers, the shelters, the unemployment office, the Urban League, anyplace where someone might go looking for a hand out, all have this place on their speed-dial for anyone needing "emergency" employment. They pay about $2/hr above minimum wage, and have about a 60-90 day turnover.
But, it evidently works for them, they seem to get an endless feed of fodder. People given little choice but to apply there, or else.
One might opine that such is the reason industry in the US is on it's heels. As one pundit once said - people come out of college expecting to find a position, and end up with a job...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Convicted One kenny dorham You think 65k, for 2k hours per year, for a construction job is a "Bonanza".? Likely a discussion so far removed from the subject of trains, that if we pursued it in sufficient detail, we would only irritate people. But yeah, where I am, unskilled "grunt" labor is in the $25-30K range, with moderately skilled jobs paying in the $43-47K range. Which led me to suspect the figure Urich was using must include some.....upleasantry pay? Kenny, it seems like I recall discussion with you in an old "California High Speed Passenger Rail" thread, where we were talking about people working in San Francisco, but forced to live in the hinterlands of Bakersfield....was that you? Obviously for anyone expecting to both live and work in the immediate San Francisco bay area, yes I agree with you $65K would seem like a pittance.
kenny dorham You think 65k, for 2k hours per year, for a construction job is a "Bonanza".?
Likely a discussion so far removed from the subject of trains, that if we pursued it in sufficient detail, we would only irritate people. But yeah, where I am, unskilled "grunt" labor is in the $25-30K range, with moderately skilled jobs paying in the $43-47K range. Which led me to suspect the figure Urich was using must include some.....upleasantry pay?
Kenny, it seems like I recall discussion with you in an old "California High Speed Passenger Rail" thread, where we were talking about people working in San Francisco, but forced to live in the hinterlands of Bakersfield....was that you?
Obviously for anyone expecting to both live and work in the immediate San Francisco bay area, yes I agree with you $65K would seem like a pittance.
It sounds very familiar, and i Have-Do live in San Francisco and Sacramento.
And yeah, even though 65k is not a "Fortune"......you are 100% correct, it will certainly go further in some places than others.
The cost of Housing, Rent, Mortgage and Gasoline seem to be two of the BIGGEST financial concerns that can differ so widely from state to state.
I jumped down your throat a bit on that.
My Fault
I Apologize
kenny dorhamI jumped down your throat a bit on that. My Fault I Apologize
Not any problem whatsoever, I enjoy a spirited debate.
I'm just glad that no innocent bystanders were harmed..
Back to the original link, does anyone think that the management running the 3 railroads mentioned, if they were to read that article, would they think "oh dear, there is a problem we must work to correct"?
Not a snowball's chance......
They'll just blame the employees for being too negative, and continue the beatings until morale improves.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Yep pretty much SD70Dude you nailed it. We just demoted a foreman of our shop here back to a mechanic. Why well to say he doesn't have people skills is putting it mildly. He was threatening to write up our drivers for the smallest infraction they did let alone the people working under him. One mechanic who has been with us for 30 years walked into the owners office and said it's either me walking out or your going to need the sheriff and an ambulance here if I go back into the shop. The owner asked why. He was told that his most senior mechanic had just been suspended for 3 weeks without pay for failure to secure his tools in his box between jobs. That was the straw that caused the former foreman to be demoted that day. He also was thrown onto the night shift working overnights as the owner said until either Hell freezes over or we land a man on the sun.
Shadow the Cats ownerYep pretty much SD70Dude you nailed it. We just demoted a foreman of our shop here back to a mechanic. Why well to say he doesn't have people skills is putting it mildly. He was threatening to write up our drivers for the smallest infraction they did let alone the people working under him. One mechanic who has been with us for 30 years walked into the owners office and said it's either me walking out or your going to need the sheriff and an ambulance here if I go back into the shop. The owner asked why. He was told that his most senior mechanic had just been suspended for 3 weeks without pay for failure to secure his tools in his box between jobs. That was the straw that caused the former foreman to be demoted that day. He also was thrown onto the night shift working overnights as the owner said until either Hell freezes over or we land a man on the sun.
Not everybody is cut out for supervisory positions with a modicum of 'power'. The 'power' goes to their heads. Just because someone has superior technical skills in their area does not mean they have the ability to supervise their area.
Shadows incident isn't unusual. In the military it sometimes results in 'friendly fire' incidents.
BaltACD Shadows incident isn't unusual. In the military it sometimes results in 'friendly fire' incidents.
Isn't that called "fragging"?
You are correct that a lot of folks can't handle power and responsibility, in some cases the authoritaw goes to their head.
BaltACDNot everybody is cut out for supervisory positions with a modicum of 'power'. The 'power' goes to their heads. Just because someone has superior technical skills in their area does not mean they have the ability to supervise their area.
The "Peter Principle" in a nutshell. Unfortunately, all too often they don't get put back where they should be, and continue to wreak havoc.
SD70DudeIsn't that called "fragging"?
Uh-huh.
Although typically "fragging" occurs as a means of self-preservation, that is, removing an incompetant leader before he gets you all killed. If the leader's competant, knows his business, and especially how to keep his people alive he doesn't have too much to worry about, even if he's a hard unlikeable SOB.
Flintlock76 SD70Dude Isn't that called "fragging"? Uh-huh. Although typically "fragging" occurs as a means of self-preservation, that is, removing an incompetant leader before he gets you all killed. If the leader's competant, knows his business, and especially how to keep his people alive he doesn't have too much to worry about, even if he's a hard unlikeable SOB.
SD70Dude Isn't that called "fragging"?
It becomes very evident, very quickly 'hard asses' that know their game and those that will get you killed.
Some hardass know their game and will try to get you killed anyway.. just for the heck of it.
I think that the reality on that is, they understand that some loss is inevitable. They just calculate the objective to be worth anticipated losses, and christen the casualties to be heroes.
Backshop I'm surprised that some of the OTR trucking companies aren't listed--CR England, CRST and Swift, in particular.
I'm surprised that some of the OTR trucking companies aren't listed--CR England, CRST and Swift, in particular.
England and "Swifties" are generally known for being more "newbie friendly" and a bit more forgiving of (past) misadventures, and that counts for at least something with many drivers.
While there's never been a truck driver who didn't complain, experiened OTR drivers have been in such demand for so long that mobility isn't an issue. If your DS gives you an abnormal number of deliveries or pickups at locations known to burn up your earning hours waiting for a dock door, or keeps putting off your next home trip, you can turn the truck in and be working for another company in just a few days - with a sign-on bonus in some cases. If an OTR driver is really dissatisfied, they don't stick around.
While there's never been a truck driver who didn't complain, they still have a greater degreee of self-direction than most operating railroaders - even with e-logs.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann
Commenter, with his condescending attitude was more cringey than the ideas communicated in the video.
Railroading is not for everyone and that was communicated a number of times in the video.
BaltACDRailroading is not for everyone and that was communicated a number of times in the video.
Oh come on, even before PSR slashing and burning, that video is complete horse manure.
Any wonder why they can't get people to hire on and guys with 5-10-20+ years are walking out?
I believe that many of you are overlooking the impact that consolidation has had upon the industry.
Back when there were 20+ class one railroads, there was a good chance that if you got fed up with one employer, you could quit, walk across town, and hire on with a different railroad, the same day. Since the employee had options, the employer had to at least be mindful of that.
Now, the employer really doesn't have to care if the employee feels job satisfaction, or not. Where else you gonna go? Lower paying short line? commute a couple hundred miles? Rip up all your roots and move to a new city?
Well, I spent almost my entire almost 40 year career in the railroad industry but never working directly for a railroad, they were my customers. That said I learned very early on that I didn't want to work directly for a railroad. Yes, they are 24/7 businesses and even in my work 3AM phone calls and long work sessions were not uncommon but that's the nature of the business. However, it seemed to me that most railroaders were jerked around a lot more than I was. That said, I don't think I've ever had good management in any employment. Some, but not all, of my managers were good people trying hard but they were being screwed by the system as well. I, myself, was a manager for some years in the 1980's and it seemed I was always between a rock and a hard place so I "went back to my tools" and was much happier. The railroad industry is full of good people trying hard to do a good job but frankly I have little respect for their top management.
YOU HIT IT RIGHT ON THE PROVERBIAL HEAD SD70!! CSX is no different. I hired on with Chessie in 1978 and got furloughed when the auto business went out the door here in Michigan in 77. Gone 12 years but came back with all my seniority intact and I knew what I was getting into.
As for regular work...thats why I went into Yard Service. Regular hours, days off and I actually forgot what a crew caller even was. Gone 7 years and with an excellent pension and wouldn't have changed a thing. WIfe enjoys her piece of Railroad Retirement too. 8-)
Dano in Michigan
I enjoyed the video.. thanks for sharing. The engineer is a funny guy.
zugmann BaltACD Railroading is not for everyone and that was communicated a number of times in the video. Oh come on, even before PSR slashing and burning, that video is complete horse manure. Any wonder why they can't get people to hire on and guys with 5-10-20+ years are walking out?
BaltACD Railroading is not for everyone and that was communicated a number of times in the video.
The word on the 'street' when I was working was that no one was a true NS employee until they had been fired at least once.
If you haven't been fired at least once you're not trying hard enough.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.