Yet they and their road warrior competitiors, Swift etc.. employ tens of thousands of people.. bad but not bad enough to quit..
UlrichYet they and their road warrior competitiors, Swift etc.. employ tens of thousands of people.. bad but not bad enough to quit..
Perhaps they should incorporate that into their hiring spiel? "Beats Starvation"...lol!
Convicted One Ulrich Yet they and their road warrior competitiors, Swift etc.. employ tens of thousands of people.. bad but not bad enough to quit.. Perhaps they should incorporate that into their hiring spiel? "Beats Starvation"...lol!
Ulrich Yet they and their road warrior competitiors, Swift etc.. employ tens of thousands of people.. bad but not bad enough to quit..
Lots of options besides starvation. find something else or start a business..that's what I did when I had enough of working for the man. Nobody needs to starve. In this market there are lots of options.. almost everyone around here is hiring.. $65000/year for general laborers.. no experience required etc.. saw that this morning. It's a job seekers' market right now.. and if you've got skills you're absolutely golden.. No need to put up with lousy management or poor working conditions.. not now.
UlrichIt's a job seekers' market right now.
it has been somewhat humorous seeing employer frustration in getting workers to return to low paying jobs. But $65K for general labor sounds like a bonanza. Enviro-hazard premium?
Do any drivers stay once they get a couple years of experience in?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann Ulrich Yet they and their road warrior competitiors, Swift etc.. employ tens of thousands of people.. bad but not bad enough to quit.. Do any drivers stay once they get a couple years of experience in?
Most don't because other opportunities beckon.. not a bad thing.
UlrichMost don't because other opportunities beckon.. not a bad thing.
I mean, if there were more smaller RRs that paid nearly what the class-1s did, I don't think people would stick around class 1s. But golden handcuffs, and there isn't much call for RRer skill outside of RRs.
Convicted One Construction labourer.. Fergus, ON.. small town construction.. no takers yet i'm told. Ulrich It's a job seekers' market right now. it has been somewhat humorous seeing employer frustration in getting workers to return to low paying jobs. But $65K for general labor sounds like a bonanza. Enviro-hazard premium?
Construction labourer.. Fergus, ON.. small town construction.. no takers yet i'm told.
Ulrich It's a job seekers' market right now.
Well, I don't want to get too far off on a tangent, but frequently those "too good to be true" opportunities people flaunt when building their argument against the unemployed...you end up finding it's like for carrying 200 lb bundles through waist deep mud with some idiot screaming at you all day long to speed up. Meaning the job is "available" for good reason.
Convicted One Well, I don't want to get too far off on a tangent, but frequently those "too good to be true" opportunities people flaunt when building their argument against the unemployed...you end up finding it's like for carrying 200 lb bundles through waist deep mud with some idiot screaming at you all day long to speed up. Meaning the job is "available" for good reason.
Yup.. for 65K it is likely hard work in tough conditions..
zugmann Ulrich Most don't because other opportunities beckon.. not a bad thing. I mean, if there were more smaller RRs that paid nearly what the class-1s did, I don't think people would stick around class 1s. But golden handcuffs, and there isn't much call for RRer skill outside of RRs.
Ulrich Most don't because other opportunities beckon.. not a bad thing.
In a more general sense your skills i.e. mechanical apptitude, problem solving ability etc are very transferrable. Most employers want people who a) show up for work,and b) can think on their feet to some extent. Anyone who can do those two things will always find work.. and good paying work most of the time.
zugmann golden handcuffs
I can understand what Zug's talking about because in a way it happened to me. Too many years on the job and too much invested to just walk away.
When I started doing copier repair it was a fun job with fun people. It was the first job I had in a long, long time where when the alarm clock went off in the morning I didn't greet the day with an obscenity.
But, the last ten years the petty annoyances and the corporate BS began and the irritation level started going up and up. I had too much time in to just walk away and so did many of my collegues, it was "grin and bear it" until retirement time. Then I walked away and didn't look back.
Flintlock76 zugmann golden handcuffs I can understand what Zug's talking about because in a way it happened to me. Too many years on the job and too much invested to just walk away. When I started doing copier repair it was a fun job with fun people. It was the first job I had in a long, long time where when the alarm clock went off in the morning I didn't greet the day with an obscenity. But, the last ten years the petty annoyances and the corporate BS began and the irritation level started going up and up. I had too much time in to just walk away and so did many of my collegues, it was "grin and bear it" until retirement time. Then I walked away and didn't look back.
I get that too.. it's hard to up and quit and start all over again elsewhere.
Convicted One Ulrich It's a job seekers' market right now. it has been somewhat humorous seeing employer frustration in getting workers to return to low paying jobs. But $65K for general labor sounds like a bonanza. Enviro-hazard premium?
Keep in mind that $65,000 Canadian is $51815 US. Still not bad, but....
charlie hebdoKeep in mind that $65,000 Canadian is $51815 US. Still not bad, but....
Yeah, I did that, ...the disparity wasn't quite enough for a good joke, but I thought about it.
The "golden handcuffs" observation made by Zug was, imo, pretty relevant. 20 years ago I was in a $61K/yr position that involved a high degree of specialty. And when that ended I was aghast at what prospective employers were willing to pay. Seemed like everyone wanted to hire "young and dumb".
Of course there were jobs available that were so physically demanding that it was little mystery why they were ALWAYS hiring. But at 42 years old I wasn't interested in shortening my life 10 years, just for a paycheck.
See also: RR retirement "current connection" stuff. (Esp for those with spouses)
Convicted One charlie hebdo Keep in mind that $65,000 Canadian is $51815 US. Still not bad, but.... Yeah, I did that, ...the disparity wasn't quite enough for a good joke, but I thought about it. The "golden handcuffs" observation made by Zug was, imo, pretty relevant. 20 years ago I was in a $61K/yr position that involved a high degree of specialty. And when that ended I was aghast at what prospective employers were willing to pay. Seemed like everyone wanted to hire "young and dumb". Of course there were jobs available that were so physically demanding that it was little mystery why they were ALWAYS hiring. But at 42 years old I wasn't interested in shortening my life 10 years, just for a paycheck.
charlie hebdo Keep in mind that $65,000 Canadian is $51815 US. Still not bad, but....
If you work in Canada your expenses are in Canadian dollars also..
Contrary to the conventional wisdom, many of us smaller businesses prefer older workers.. they tend to not get pregnant, and for the most part they already have realistic expectations.. pay off the mortgage, help the kids with college etc.. Of course, if your business is moving furniture you want squat muscular 20 to 30 year old men.. but for office work or light labor the 50 to 65 year old crowd is great.
Ulrich most of the more experienced drivers leave the mega boy's as fast as humanly possible. They tend to find smaller carriers were drivers are treated like well human beings to start. I'm still in shock when we get a new driver in and he meets the owner of the company and on his contact list he is given is 2 different numbers one is the boss man's direct office line the other is his cellphone. They're also given their dispatchers company issued cellphone number for emergency needs. Just last week I had to play flight coordinator for a driver. His wife was involved in an accident at her job and put in the hospital. We flew him home to be with his family instead of being on the road and sent a replacement driver out to get his truck back to the yard. This man was one of our owner operators and we would have done the same thing for a company driver. We just hired a ex Swift driver that was fired while on hometime why Swift lost his dedicated contract and decided he didn't need to drive for them anymore. Then they tried to say he abandoned his truck at an unapproved location. His truck was parked at the old dedicated starting point. You gotta love the mega carriers.
You think 65k, for 2k hours per year, for a construction job is a "Bonanza".? That is what a person needs, to make a living, at any job.
That is what i made, the last year i worked, in 2006. It is not a lot of money.
kenny dorham You think 65k, for 2k hours per year, for a construction job is a "Bonanza".? That is what a person needs, to make a living, at any job. That is what i made, the last year i worked, in 2006. It is not a lot of money.
I'm not sure who called 65K a "bonanza".. (not me) but if the job remains unfilled then I would agree that 65K likley isn't enough. That's often the issue when there are no takers..Mind you they're drawing from a fairly small labor pool.. Fergus is small.. and the number of locals who can do heavy manual labor is further limited. That same job offered in metro Toronto (a far more expensive market) would likely be filled quickly at 65K due to the large pool of hard scrabble immigrants available.
Shadow the Cats owner Ulrich most of the more experienced drivers leave the mega boy's as fast as humanly possible. They tend to find smaller carriers were drivers are treated like well human beings to start. I'm still in shock when we get a new driver in and he meets the owner of the company and on his contact list he is given is 2 different numbers one is the boss man's direct office line the other is his cellphone. They're also given their dispatchers company issued cellphone number for emergency needs. Just last week I had to play flight coordinator for a driver. His wife was involved in an accident at her job and put in the hospital. We flew him home to be with his family instead of being on the road and sent a replacement driver out to get his truck back to the yard. This man was one of our owner operators and we would have done the same thing for a company driver. We just hired a ex Swift driver that was fired while on hometime why Swift lost his dedicated contract and decided he didn't need to drive for them anymore. Then they tried to say he abandoned his truck at an unapproved location. His truck was parked at the old dedicated starting point. You gotta love the mega carriers.
To be fair though (to use Swift as an example).. they run 16 thousand trucks, have a satisfactory DOT rating, and their safety rating is better than industry average. Sure they've got their issues, but we all do.. as soon as you've got more than a handful of employees you've got your rogue employee who makes poor decisions and represents the business in a negative manner. There's just no getting around that unless you can get away with employing no one. Swift (and the other big carriers) have become the de facto training school for the industry.. they will take someone with no experience and bring them along. Their much smaller competitors generally won't and can't do that.
One other thing is involved as we age in our jobs and in a particular industry.
For the most part we were young and dumb and we acknowledge those things to ourselves and look to the leadership of the job to gain knowledge about the job and about the industry. As we gain time and knowledge within the job and the industry we begin to question things that we are being instructed and/or ordered to do based on our own real world learned experiences on the job in the present day. We also find that those instructions or orders are not matching our perception of the real needs of the job as our personal experience gained over our employment history is indicating to us. The more 'disconnected' orders that we have to deal with that conflict with our real world experiences the more disgruntled of a employee we become; especially when we see today's leadership being younger and dumber than we were when we hired out.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Balt, I had a way to deal with some of those foolish orders or requests verbally transmitted. I would write a reply confirming that I was going to 'obey' so that there was a written record. And especially, when appropriate, give copies to others, perhaps to the boss of the person who gave the order.
Ulrich the problem is Swift has been doing crap like this and worse for more than 30 years to their drivers and the entire industry. Swift literally lost their training school in Memphis for bribing license examination officials to give out CDLs in 2008. Over 5000 drivers had their CDLs suspended until they took a retest.
BaltACD Flintlock76 zugmann golden handcuffs I can understand what Zug's talking about because in a way it happened to me. Too many years on the job and too much invested to just walk away. When I started doing copier repair it was a fun job with fun people. It was the first job I had in a long, long time where when the alarm clock went off in the morning I didn't greet the day with an obscenity. But, the last ten years the petty annoyances and the corporate BS began and the irritation level started going up and up. I had too much time in to just walk away and so did many of my collegues, it was "grin and bear it" until retirement time. Then I walked away and didn't look back. One other thing is involved as we age in our jobs and in a particular industry. For the most part we were young and dumb and we acknowledge those things to ourselves and look to the leadership of the job to gain knowledge about the job and about the industry. As we gain time and knowledge within the job and the industry we begin to question things that we are being instructed and/or ordered to do based on our own real world learned experiences on the job in the present day. We also find that those instructions or orders are not matching our perception of the real needs of the job as our personal experience gained over our employment history is indicating to us. The more 'disconnected' orders that we have to deal with that conflict with our real world experiences the more disgruntled of a employee we become; especially when we see today's leadership being younger and dumber than we were when we hired out.
Balt and Flintlock have pretty accurately summarized how I felt toward the end of my career.
I worked in logistics for 40 years and thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it till the last 3. The company - in their infinite wisdom - shipped a 27 year old Dutch MBA over here to direct our logistics function. He had never worked a day interacting with railroads or trucking companies, had zero understanding of service and rate issues and, was completely unwilling to learn. He came in "knowing" how he wanted to do things and would refuse to listen to anything we told him. Dealing with this guy was so frustrating there were many days I thought my head would explode. I firmly believe the 3 years I dealt with him took 12 years off my life.
When the company offered me a generous buyout package in 2019 it was as if three years of prayer had suddenly been answered.
I suspect the majority of us reach a point in our careers where dealing with stupid simply becomes intolerable.
CW
Oh well.. the good thing about being surrounded by stupidity is that it doesn't take much to shine in that environment. In my first job as a dock hand back in 88 I really impressed the powers that be with my ability to calculate the volume of stuff.. (even round stuff like cylinders).. somehow I don't think I would have gotten the same compliments from a room of software engineers.
Ulrich Oh well.. the good thing about being surrounded by stupidity is that it doesn't take much to shine in that environment. In my first job as a dock hand back in 88 I really impressed the powers that be with my ability to calculate the volume of stuff.. (even round stuff like cylinders).. somehow I don't think I would have gotten the same compliments from a room of software engineers.
I worked for a mining company in the early 1980's. The shipping manager at one of our potash sites in New Mexico could walk into an airplane hanger size warehouse, look at the pile and tell you within about 5-10 carloads how much the warehouse held. Being able to do this is a cross between "gift" and experience.CW
[quote user="Ulrich"]
kenny dorhamYou think 65k, for 2k hours per year, for a construction job is a "Bonanza".?
Likely a discussion so far removed from the subject of trains, that if we pursued it in sufficient detail, we would only irritate people. But yeah, where I am, unskilled "grunt" labor is in the $25-30K range, with moderately skilled jobs paying in the $43-47K range. Which led me to suspect the figure Urich was using must include some.....unpleasantry pay?
Kenny, it seems like I recall discussion with you in an old "California High Speed Passenger Rail" thread, where we were talking about people working in San Francisco, but forced to live in the hinterlands of Bakersfield....was that you?
Obviously for anyone expecting to both live and work in the immediate San Francisco bay area, yes I agree with you $65K would seem like a pittance.
Irritate people? That never happens does it? Likely it's a hard job all 'round for that pay. Most people I meet in my daily life don't make 65K.. but who knows, maybe I'm behind the times.
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