greyhoundsIn this northeast corner of Illinois there have been problems with deer overpopulation. They’ve hired professional hunters to limit that population. (This drove some people nuts.) The deer don’t starve but they do harm and destroy native vegetation. They have no natural predators here, so the deer population does get too high at times.
To me, it seems like a real shame that they drained the Grand Kankakee Marsh in the name of progress. Sounds as though it was paradise on earth prior to all the "improvements".
Murphy Sidingur city had something like 33 automobile / deer collisions last year- on town.
Really? How many auto/auto collisions did you have? Perhaps it's not the deer population that has grown to non-useful proportion?
Sometimes the best thing to do is get rid of the fence.
Anyone out west in states like CO and WY knows what sheep jumps are. If antelope or deer (or moose or elk) winds up being chased along the R/W fence on the track or road side, there is a 6 ft dirt ramp and cattle chute to get the critters back on the side they belong on. It is not a railroad standard, but BNSF is trying these sheep-jumps out in some known problem areas.
In the Powder River Basin, often have had coal trains chase antelope at us on the R/W between the fences. We got in the habit of placing our survey trucks to protect our GPS equipment and us so they diverted around us instead of through us.
Have seen plenty of antelope run staight though fences like the fence isn't there, between the wires and at a dead run. Deer don't do that. (and cattle )... What we saw many times were the adult antelope on the wrong side of the fence with the young on the opposite side keeping pace.
In Glenwood Canyon, the issue is Elk and Mountain Sheep instead of antelope.
Convicted One Really? How many auto/auto collisions did you have? Perhaps it's not the deer population that has grown to non-useful proportion?
Convicted One tree68 Conservation officials here in northern New York are concerned about reduced numbers of hunters. That translates into a reduced take, and an increase in the numbers of car/deer collisions. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but the "over population" mantra tends to get trotted out around here (Northern Indiana) whenever there is a car/deer collision, frequently by guys I know well enough to be sure they have SELDOM bothered to research any fact ouside of a sporting context. If there TRULY was an"overpopulation" problem, I think there would be ample evidence of starvation..... Personally, I tend to think it's more a matter that anytime there is a conflict between man and beast, the beast get's the rap. eg "If I ran into one of them, then that's one too many of them". I more suspect the cause of the collisions we have around here, are due to the animals becoming habituated to human presence. They come nearer to our doings as they become more accustomed to our presence. And are ill prepared to deal with some of our behavior. I really don't think that is so much proof of "overpopulation", as some might be willing to claim.
tree68 Conservation officials here in northern New York are concerned about reduced numbers of hunters. That translates into a reduced take, and an increase in the numbers of car/deer collisions.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but the "over population" mantra tends to get trotted out around here (Northern Indiana) whenever there is a car/deer collision, frequently by guys I know well enough to be sure they have SELDOM bothered to research any fact ouside of a sporting context.
If there TRULY was an"overpopulation" problem, I think there would be ample evidence of starvation.....
Personally, I tend to think it's more a matter that anytime there is a conflict between man and beast, the beast get's the rap. eg "If I ran into one of them, then that's one too many of them".
I more suspect the cause of the collisions we have around here, are due to the animals becoming habituated to human presence. They come nearer to our doings as they become more accustomed to our presence. And are ill prepared to deal with some of our behavior. I really don't think that is so much proof of "overpopulation", as some might be willing to claim.
The over population mantra has merit.. If that wasn't so. Oakland County, to the west of me. Would not be sending out deputies to cull deer reducing road strikes..
SD60MAC9500The over population mantra has merit.. If that wasn't so. Oakland County, to the west of me. Would not be sending out deputies to cull deer reducing road strikes..
Still, there are more miles of gravel roads in the town ship I lived in than the very rural township I now live in in NY.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Being from Chicago, I'm familiar with the deer overpopulation issue, which seems to be a big deal in the North Shore suburbs. Instead of hiring hunters to thin the herd, it might be easier to let the coyotes drift into the area and serve their purpose as predators.
Convicted One Murphy Siding I was born in Alaska and lived in a rural area outside of Anchorage until I was 11. Moose were common on the highways and in yards. They are very dangerous to be around. You're talking about a big, dumb, easy to spook cow with huge horns I am envious of your history, and respect your personal experiences. I've never had an opportunity to "chum up" to a moose, and while I am sure it requires an abundance of caution, under the right set of cirmcumstances, I'm probably foolhardy enough to give it a try. This not being a wildlife forum, I don't want to go too far off on a tangent, lest risk upsetting people. But in brief...my own experiences....I've been amazed with how not-dumb wildlife can be.....once you have earned their trust on an individual level. And that requires more patience than most people are willing to invest. I also find that many people are prone to confusing obedience for intelligence....if the animal fails to respond in an expected way, on a certain cue...they dismiss the animal as "dumb". Often that is an erroneous assumption. Truthfully, the biggest risk I have encountered is once I have established trust with such an animal, I worry that some other unscrupulous human will exploit that to the detriment of the animal. There seems to be no shortage of people who amuse themselves inflicting hardship, thinking it is their birthright. But, uniquely enough, I find that many of the animals I've bonded with can distinguish me as an individual....acting calm and relaxed as I enter the scene....but displaying tense, or cautionary behavior when other folks come waltzing down the path.
Murphy Siding I was born in Alaska and lived in a rural area outside of Anchorage until I was 11. Moose were common on the highways and in yards. They are very dangerous to be around. You're talking about a big, dumb, easy to spook cow with huge horns
I am envious of your history, and respect your personal experiences. I've never had an opportunity to "chum up" to a moose, and while I am sure it requires an abundance of caution, under the right set of cirmcumstances, I'm probably foolhardy enough to give it a try.
This not being a wildlife forum, I don't want to go too far off on a tangent, lest risk upsetting people. But in brief...my own experiences....I've been amazed with how not-dumb wildlife can be.....once you have earned their trust on an individual level. And that requires more patience than most people are willing to invest. I also find that many people are prone to confusing obedience for intelligence....if the animal fails to respond in an expected way, on a certain cue...they dismiss the animal as "dumb". Often that is an erroneous assumption.
Truthfully, the biggest risk I have encountered is once I have established trust with such an animal, I worry that some other unscrupulous human will exploit that to the detriment of the animal. There seems to be no shortage of people who amuse themselves inflicting hardship, thinking it is their birthright. But, uniquely enough, I find that many of the animals I've bonded with can distinguish me as an individual....acting calm and relaxed as I enter the scene....but displaying tense, or cautionary behavior when other folks come waltzing down the path.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
There's a flock of Canada geese that like frequenting the retention pond in our sub. I don't mind as long as they don't come into the sub, eating lawns and crapping everywhere. I know that they recognize me. As soon as they see me, they turn around and go back to the pond.
tree68 SD60MAC9500 The over population mantra has merit.. If that wasn't so. Oakland County, to the west of me. Would not be sending out deputies to cull deer reducing road strikes.. I grew up in western Oakland County, which is rapidly changing from rural to suburban. Even Livingston County, the next county west from Oakland, isn't as rural as it used to be. Still, there are more miles of gravel roads in the town ship I lived in than the very rural township I now live in in NY.
SD60MAC9500 The over population mantra has merit.. If that wasn't so. Oakland County, to the west of me. Would not be sending out deputies to cull deer reducing road strikes..
I grew up in western Oakland County, which is rapidly changing from rural to suburban. Even Livingston County, the next county west from Oakland, isn't as rural as it used to be.
Yes it is.. The major issues with deer are around Rochester Hills. Specifically around Livernois between Avon Rd., and Hamlin Rd.. Back in 2015 on I-75 I struck a small doe up in Mt Morris. It leaped right into my path hitting it at 70. I pulled over and walked back about 1300' didn't see it. It got up and dashed off. $7500+ worth of damage to the front end of my vehicle. Thank goodness for insurance.
CSSHEGEWISCHBeing from Chicago, I'm familiar with the deer overpopulation issue, which seems to be a big deal in the North Shore suburbs. Instead of hiring hunters to thin the herd, it might be easier to let the coyotes drift into the area and serve their purpose as predators.
The coyotes are here now.
Convicted OneTo me, it seems like a real shame that they drained the Grand Kankakee Marsh in the name of progress. Sounds as though it was paradise on earth prior to all the "improvements".
The Grand Kankakee Marsh has nothing to do with the subject pronghorn antelope herd in Canada. I have no opinion on draining the marsh.
greyhoundsThe Grand Kankakee Marsh has nothing to do with the subject pronghorn antelope herd in Canada.
Well, you brought up NE Illinois...I thought you might be familiar with Dan Parmalee?
And, despite whatever some might choose to believe, I do think that habitat destruction plays a significant role in the perception of "overpopulation".
Convicted One And, despite whatever some might choose to believe, I do think that habitat destruction plays a significant role in the perception of "overpopulation".
Back to Alberta, we have urban coyotes too. Ours have also learned that cats, dogs and garbage make far easier meals than rabbits, squirrels or deer, all of which are found in abundance in suburban areas. Edmonton's populations are helped along by our river valley park system, which I believe is the largest continuous urban park in North America.
Calgary has raccoons, so far Edmonton does not.
Black bears, cougars and wolves can be found only a few miles outside of Edmonton, and all three have become established in Elk Island National Park, a remnant of forested land east of Edmonton, which is surrounded by miles and miles of farmland.
In addition to the other more common predators, Calgarians have had some close encounters with grizzly bears in recent years, and they are becoming a farm nuisance in southern Alberta, where the prairie extends right up to the mountains.
I'd like to meet the coyote that could catch a healthy antelope without the aid of ACME products.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70Dude I'd like to meet the coyote that could catch a healthy antelope without the aid of ACME products.
I'm not sure that ACME products would help catch an antelope, healthy or otherwise. Those procducts never really helped a certain coyote catch the road runner.
Council Bluffs yard at one time was overrun with turkeys and deer. Some large specimens of both. Then it was said a coyote moved in. The deer are still around but not as many turkeys in the yard as before.
Jeff
okay, let's think about this.
Unless you know about them well ahead of time it would be pretty hard to have any significant reduction in speed before striking the animals.
a engineer isn't just going to throw the throttle in idle and get into heavy dynamic braking and set a ton of air without a very very good reason. Avoiding a herd of animals that have no risk of derailing the train is not a good reason IMO. First you run the risk of derailing the train when you rapidly change the slack state of the train like that. Second i guarantee you will flag your tapes (locomotives automatically send emails out to the company if you violate certain train handling rules now) for many reasons and company Officials will be investigating your whole trip with a magnifying glass and will most definitely be trying to discipline and or fire you. if you don't believe the railroads do that, google the time not too long ago where a carman was fired for rescuing a kitten from a railcar....
The third reason is by the time you got the train to slow down you still would have mowed over all the animals anyways!
I hate hitting animals, and I do what I can within reason to avoid it but I'm not going to risk my job or the safety of my train to do so.
GoodtimingI don’t see any attempt at slowing down through the whole herd. Not good!
I live in a big city and raccoons are everywhere. They don't get in my garbage bin because I keep a cinder block on top of it, but that doesn't stop them from wandering around on my patio or porch roof which they sometimes use as a toilet. This past summer I go into my garage and what comes out from behind my roll-away toolbox but a skunk! I was paralyzed! It walked about 6 inches from me and never reacted but I'm still paranoid when I go to get my car out.
A few years ago I go into the garage and I had left a bag of rags on the floor. Something is in the bag. A possum and the damned thing hissed at me! I thought they were supposed to play dead! I swatted it with a broom and it took off.
Toronto has tree-filled ravines all over the city and they have coyotes in them and they also cruise around residential areas with not a care in the world. They're too smart to let themselves be caught. Out in the burbs there are the occasional fox and rural areas have bears. If you need to get out of your car to see what the other side of a tree looks like, be very careful. Once when driving near Parry Sound, a highway crew was dragging a dead bear off the road. I guess his pickanick basket swiping days are over.
London, England has foxes everywhere, they're almost as common as raccoons are here. A fox was found at the top of The Shard building when it was almost finished being built. Tallest building in Europe.
The amazing thing with wildlife we see around suburban areas is that they all have their own 'homes' somewhere in the near area. We may not see their homes, but they have them, otherwise they would not be in the area.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
And you may be sharing YOUR home with them.
Backshop Ulrich Here's an idea.. perhaps drones could be used to fly ahead of trains in areas where large animal herds have been known to congregate.. the drones would relay back to crews and to the train dispatch center.. " herd two miles ahead".. engineer may then apply the brakes and avoid killing a bunch of animals. Or perhaps better yet, drones could be used to shepard herds off the tracks and to safety. Last that I checked, railroads were trying to reduce 2 man crews to 1, not add a third member. Most commercial, inexpensive drones have limited range and endurance.
Ulrich Here's an idea.. perhaps drones could be used to fly ahead of trains in areas where large animal herds have been known to congregate.. the drones would relay back to crews and to the train dispatch center.. " herd two miles ahead".. engineer may then apply the brakes and avoid killing a bunch of animals. Or perhaps better yet, drones could be used to shepard herds off the tracks and to safety.
Here's an idea.. perhaps drones could be used to fly ahead of trains in areas where large animal herds have been known to congregate.. the drones would relay back to crews and to the train dispatch center.. " herd two miles ahead".. engineer may then apply the brakes and avoid killing a bunch of animals. Or perhaps better yet, drones could be used to shepard herds off the tracks and to safety.
Last that I checked, railroads were trying to reduce 2 man crews to 1, not add a third member. Most commercial, inexpensive drones have limited range and endurance.
No third crew member required as any engineering student today could design a system that is automated for this purpose. Most drones today would have the endurance and range, and they're getting better and cheaper every day.
Convicted One Murphy Siding What do the pilots do now? A jet traveling at 500 mph covers 8-1/3 miles in a minute's time. I don't think tapping the brakes when you see a flock of geese will gain you much. I suppose you could pull a "Kenneth Arnold" and blame it on forces beyond your comprehension...
Murphy Siding What do the pilots do now? A jet traveling at 500 mph covers 8-1/3 miles in a minute's time. I don't think tapping the brakes when you see a flock of geese will gain you much.
I suppose you could pull a "Kenneth Arnold" and blame it on forces beyond your comprehension...
They try to avoid birds. Sometimes it doesn't work out so well..i.e. Chesley Sullenburger.."we'll be in the Hudson"..
A few comments about this subject from a non-railroading retired farmer: after living in the same house for almost 60 years, the wildlife population has changed, and does seem to be more bold around humans.
I have had multiple encounters and near-misses with the local deer population and the only thing I have used that helped was the horn. If deer can be seen before they hit you, blasting the horn often will get them to angle away from the road. I wondered if this was true with locomotives-loud horn blasts, turn the bell on-does this help?
RKFarms A few comments about this subject from a non-railroading retired farmer: after living in the same house for almost 60 years, the wildlife population has changed, and does seem to be more bold around humans. I have had multiple encounters and near-misses with the local deer population and the only thing I have used that helped was the horn. If deer can be seen before they hit you, blasting the horn often will get them to angle away from the road. I wondered if this was true with locomotives-loud horn blasts, turn the bell on-does this help?
Euclid RKFarms A few comments about this subject from a non-railroading retired farmer: after living in the same house for almost 60 years, the wildlife population has changed, and does seem to be more bold around humans. I have had multiple encounters and near-misses with the local deer population and the only thing I have used that helped was the horn. If deer can be seen before they hit you, blasting the horn often will get them to angle away from the road. I wondered if this was true with locomotives-loud horn blasts, turn the bell on-does this help? I think horn sounding might help with certain kinds of animals. But, they reported that those antelope in that CP event will always attempt to outrun the train. And if they are running away from a train, they must not need any horn to warn them. Also, the proper horn signal for that situation is a prolong series of short, sharp toots. Presumably, that has a sound of ugency that might help get the animal's attention. In the video, they were blowing the horn, but not that signal. It sounded like a prolonged, soft, wail with slight pauses here and there.
I think horn sounding might help with certain kinds of animals. But, they reported that those antelope in that CP event will always attempt to outrun the train. And if they are running away from a train, they must not need any horn to warn them. Also, the proper horn signal for that situation is a prolong series of short, sharp toots. Presumably, that has a sound of ugency that might help get the animal's attention. In the video, they were blowing the horn, but not that signal. It sounded like a prolonged, soft, wail with slight pauses here and there.
Murphy Siding Euclid RKFarms A few comments about this subject from a non-railroading retired farmer: after living in the same house for almost 60 years, the wildlife population has changed, and does seem to be more bold around humans. I have had multiple encounters and near-misses with the local deer population and the only thing I have used that helped was the horn. If deer can be seen before they hit you, blasting the horn often will get them to angle away from the road. I wondered if this was true with locomotives-loud horn blasts, turn the bell on-does this help? I think horn sounding might help with certain kinds of animals. But, they reported that those antelope in that CP event will always attempt to outrun the train. And if they are running away from a train, they must not need any horn to warn them. Also, the proper horn signal for that situation is a prolong series of short, sharp toots. Presumably, that has a sound of ugency that might help get the animal's attention. In the video, they were blowing the horn, but not that signal. It sounded like a prolonged, soft, wail with slight pauses here and there. I dunno. I can't buy into the idea that there's a certain tune that you have to play with the horn in order to get antelope off the track. Do you play Shave and a haircut, two bits! for antelope and Ode to Joy for deer? I tend to think that the animals just get used to the sound of the horns after a while.
I dunno. I can't buy into the idea that there's a certain tune that you have to play with the horn in order to get antelope off the track. Do you play Shave and a haircut, two bits! for antelope and Ode to Joy for deer? I tend to think that the animals just get used to the sound of the horns after a while.
Sounds like a good option for a multi-million dollar study where you watch trains in the mountains.
So they were using the horn as a mating call?
Every time I think of that video, I keep waiting on the engineer to turn on the windshield wipers. (Dawn of the Dead reference)
Well, I don't if it is true, but most of the news stories say that antelope are sort of wired to out-run rather than make evasive moves to escape. If they can outrun it, they can escape it. They are probably thinking about other 4-legged predators, though, and not trains.
I don't know how much of their decision is based on snow depth and the snow on the track being shallow. Being that they are trying to escape by out-running the train, they probably figure they can run the fastest in the shallow snow on the tracks. They may not know that trains need to be on tracks in order to chase antelopes.
They heard stories from "down south" about how their relatives used to outrun MILW and CRI&P trains on bad track.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.