Electroliner 1935 Why a deer can't see a car, I don't know
Just a theory of mine, but geese are notoriously prone to getting hit by cars, as well.
Try to sneek up on a goose while you are on foot sometime.
I suspect it has something to do with the smooth movement on wheels being deceptive, where they are more accustomed to perceiving threat from an undulating gait.
Working as a boiler inspector in New York's Hudson valley years ago, I had to inspect the boiler at a rod and gun club near the Connecticut border. On the driveway were 4 big deer, just standing there. I had to honk the horn several times to get them to move. You should have seen the look on the club guy's face when I told him that I could have bagged one with my 3-cell Maglite.
Electroliner 1935Deer hit my car once.
Piker...
I've gotten four... Plus one we hit with our old rescue truck on the way back from a call.
A contractor was taking our fire department pumper to a test site for its annual pump test.
This is a "custom" apparatus, with the big, boxy cab.
I heard a report of a deer hit, just outside of our district, involving a fire truck, so I moseyed down for a looksee. It was ours.
The truck hit the deer mid-flight (the truck was doing the speed limit - 55). The collision damaged the warning lights above the headlights, the siren (in the grille), a windshield wiper, and even managed to chip the paint on the passenger side A post. The deer was that far off the ground.
I think the damage came in around at almost $10,000...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
54light15On the driveway were 4 big deer, just standing there. I had to honk the horn several times to get them to move.
Many years ago, my father and I went hunting north of the Brooks Range in Alaska ... technically after Dall sheep, but note I said 'hunting', not 'shooting'. The proper technique to stalk these animals is interesting: their eyes are like little 8x telescopes and they're always carefully watching ... in fact they'll set lookouts to do that job, usually in prominent places. Consequently your recourse to get 'within range' is to come from somewhere unexpected -- for example, over the top of the sort of mountain associated with bighorn sheep, quietly and from downwind, and perhaps as many as 20 times per day -- this being August in the 'land of the midnight sun' the day started about 7 and ended with failing light well after midnight.
Now, there was one young ram that the guide and I observed early, right near where we made base camp. He had found a nifty promontory projecting out from a mountainside, where he had but to turn his head to see over 270 degrees of terrain, and -- he thought -- have plenty of time to detect potential predator approach. In fact he would sit up there cocky as hell, tracking you as you went down the valleys in the morning and came back at night.
By the last day of this my ankles had swollen to where I couldn't put my hands around either one, and we were returning on 'short final' when I realized there was a track up that mountain that would get me between the promontory and the 'rest of the world'. So I motioned to the guide to follow me -- he nervously repeating 'you're not going to shoot him, right?' (apparently a large cross-section of hunters affluent enough to handle a week there are prone to get red mist and take each other's shot no matter how long they've known a 'buddy', so everyone has to go alone). Up the track we went, until I came to cover behind a large rock -- from which I could see our young friend. I chambered a cartridge -- this producing yet another flurry from the guide -- carefully locked the bolt, and eased the safety off -- just to prove the threat was genuine. I then very ostentatiously pulled the bolt out of battery -- ears pricked up. Then I pulled the bolt back, hard, ejecting the cartridge which made a satisfying metallic clatter -- head turned to see. Then I closed the bolt on the empty chamber and 'click' pulled the trigger.... then stood up in full view. At this point he was up ... and discovered that to get off his promontory, he was going to have to walk past me. Which he proceeded to do ... slowly and carefully, looking at me with extremely big dark eyes. As he passed me I reached over and patted him on the flank and said, sternly, "don't you ever let this happen to you again".
What was most interesting, perhaps, was that he sidled past me, watching carefully, and disappeared off into the gloom ... never breaking stride, never scrambling suddenly once he was in safety; I think he knew.
I'd like to think he had a long and successful career with his own herd after that, not assuming that good position can make you complacent...
tree68 Electroliner 1935 Deer hit my car once. Piker... I've gotten four... Plus one we hit with our old rescue truck on the way back from a call. A contractor was taking our fire department pumper to a test site for its annual pump test. This is a "custom" apparatus, with the big, boxy cab. I heard a report of a deer hit, just outside of our district, involving a fire truck, so I moseyed down for a looksee. It was ours. The truck hit the deer mid-flight (the truck was doing the speed limit - 55). The collision damaged the warning lights above the headlights, the siren (in the grille), a windshield wiper, and even managed to chip the paint on the passenger side A post. The deer was that far off the ground. I think the damage came in around at almost $10,000...
Electroliner 1935 Deer hit my car once.
Don't know if they actually work - but I have put 'deer whistles' on my vehicles for the past 20 years - in driving, mostly at night, I have seen numerous deer both along Interstates and secondary roads.
When I had my 84 Dodge Daytona Turbo I discovered one deer that needed 'rain tires' I saw him, he saw me and put the brakes on - but he only stopped when he hit the side of the car and knocked off the passenger side mirror. Looked in the central mirror and he was shaking his head and walking away.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Don't know if they actually work - but I have put 'deer whistles' on my vehicles for the past 20 years...
Don't know if they actually work - but I have put 'deer whistles' on my vehicles for the past 20 years...
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
I've never hit a deer, nor any other on-foot wild animal while driving. Never hit an oil tanker stopped straddling the road either.
I've read different things about the deer whistles. Some say they work, some don't. I also have them on our vehicles. (Saw a deer standing by the road coming home tonight.)
I've hit deer and other wild life, both with my vehicle and with the train. The last two vehicle accidents were the deer running into the side of us. One was damage that could be repaired, one totaled the vehicle.
A few years ago on the train, it was a Friday night and three nice bucks were out on the town. They were about to cross the tracks, one stopped the others didn't.
One afternoon we finished off a deer that had already been hit. It's back was broken and it couldn't move it's hind legs. It was trying to get up and off the tracks and couldn't. I hated what was about to happen, but I guess it was for the best.
One day leaving town approaching the river, I noticed a dead fawn between the rails on the adjacent track. A vulture was starting to eat it. When we went past it, I noticed mom was still standing off to the side, just watching. We go another mile and there is another dead fawn, with mom still watching and waiting.
We ran over a big turtle. It was high centered on the rail and I figured we might shove it off. Nope. We hit it. The next day coming back I saw it. A Half on each side of the rail. At least it was the first rail of four it needed to cross. It would've been worse if it was the last rail on it's journey.
Jeff
jeffhergert I've read different things about the deer whistles. Some say they work, some don't. I also have them on our vehicles.
I've read different things about the deer whistles. Some say they work, some don't. I also have them on our vehicles.
If I recall correctly, we once responded to a car vs deer accident. The young lady was quite upset, of course, and even moreso since she had the whistles...
jeffhergert We ran over a big turtle. It was high centered on the rail and I figured we might shove it off.
We ran over a big turtle. It was high centered on the rail and I figured we might shove it off.
Been there. Those big snappers are no match for a locomotive.
dwill49965 This links to a very disturbing video. I know freight trains can't stop on a dime, but in rewatching it several times, it doesn't even look like they tried to slow down (maybe it would have been fruitless anyway). My apologies if it has already been posted here, but I had a look at recent topics and didn't see it. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/cp-rail-video-train-runs-over-antelope-herd-1.5828740
This links to a very disturbing video. I know freight trains can't stop on a dime, but in rewatching it several times, it doesn't even look like they tried to slow down (maybe it would have been fruitless anyway).
My apologies if it has already been posted here, but I had a look at recent topics and didn't see it.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/cp-rail-video-train-runs-over-antelope-herd-1.5828740
It's not like they won't birth more. I could see if it was like the last herd in Canada but it's not and antelope are all over the United States as well.
Would blowing the horn have made any difference, since it might scare the pronghorn sheep?
Caldreamer
caldreamer Would blowing the horn have made any difference, since it might scare the pronghorn sheep? Caldreamer
They were blowing the horn and the animals were scared. But their main impluse is to stay in the shallow snow and try to outrun the train. So the only thing that would have likely prevented it was to slow down, reducing speed by about 20 mph. Otherwise the outcome was inevitable.
Euclid So the only thing that would have likely prevented it was to slow down, reducing speed by about 20 mph.
I have to wonder if the railroad has an official policy that would prohibit doing so? Where the engineer was forced to either hit the animals, or answer to disciplinary action?
Euclid caldreamer Would blowing the horn have made any difference, since it might scare the pronghorn sheep? Caldreamer They were blowing the horn and the animals were scared. But their main impluse is to stay in the shallow snow and try to outrun the train. So the only thing that would have likely prevented it was to slow down, reducing speed by about 20 mph. Otherwise the outcome was inevitable.
Murphy Siding How do you propose they reduce speed by about 20 mph?
By shutting off power and applying brakes.
Got a call from my manager a few years ago...
"Wayne, I need you to take some of Steve's service calls."
"Why? What happened?"
"He hit a deer, and his truck's all messed up."
"Wait a minute, did he hit the deer, or did the deer hit him?"
"Deer hit him."
"OK, that figures. Steve's a nice guy, he'd never throw the first punch!"
I'll go quietly...
Flintlock76I'll go quietly...
SD70Dude addressed some of these issues earlier in the thread, and his points make sense.
However, in this case - flat, straight Prairie track, good visibility for miles, and a bright, clear sunny day - it seems to me that earlier prudent slowing action without endangering lives or equipment, or significantly affecting the train's schedule could have been taken. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, will come of the "review", and if the public will hear about it.
I also noted SD70Dude's claim that the facebook poster would probably face disciplinary action. And then I opened this months newly arrived Trains Magazine, and see on the cover "How to kill a railroad career" (I haven't read it yet though). Timely.
dwill49965 And then I opened this months newly arrived Trains Magazine, and see on the cover "How to kill a railroad career" (I haven't read it yet though).
A fire service site I follow refers to the modern version of this as "SMACSS," or Social Media Assisted Career Suicide Syndrome.
Often known as putting your foot in your mouth...
Ulrich Here's an idea.. perhaps drones could be used to fly ahead of trains in areas where large animal herds have been known to congregate.. the drones would relay back to crews and to the train dispatch center.. " herd two miles ahead".. engineer may then apply the brakes and avoid killing a bunch of animals. Or perhaps better yet, drones could be used to shepard herds off the tracks and to safety.
Here's an idea.. perhaps drones could be used to fly ahead of trains in areas where large animal herds have been known to congregate.. the drones would relay back to crews and to the train dispatch center.. " herd two miles ahead".. engineer may then apply the brakes and avoid killing a bunch of animals. Or perhaps better yet, drones could be used to shepard herds off the tracks and to safety.
BackshopMost commercial, inexpensive drones have limited range and endurance.
Nothing was said about how the drone pilots would be linked, but I suspect at least some of the 'flight' activity would be comparable to Predator missioning ... which can be deployed to a reasonable level of control for the purposes in this thread over reasonably low-latency satellite links.
There have been a couple of threads about launch and recovery from the locomotive under prospective inclement conditions; I suspect that the state of the art in semiautonomous drone guidance as BNSF is considering it has only improved since then.
Since this thread is about amimal - vehicle colisions, I have a queation.
When I was in high school (early '50s), I was in a study hall and my English lit book had a short story of a new freight diesel locomotive (FT?) on a demonstration trip somewhere in the plains (like Kansas) and I was reading it. As the story was telling the story every thing was interesting and then I came to where the locomotive hits a qrouse that smashed through the windshield and lands agains the back of the cab. The crew looked back at it and as they did, it threw up over thedeck. At this point I started laughing and could not stop. Teacher and all the other classmates were looking at me and I could not stop. The image was just more than I could repress. Did early Diesels have safety glass?
Convicted One Euclid So the only thing that would have likely prevented it was to slow down, reducing speed by about 20 mph. I have to wonder if the railroad has an official policy that would prohibit doing so? Where the engineer was forced to either hit the animals, or answer to disciplinary action?
I assume they do have such a rule that prohibits any attempt to yield to animals. Why else would this have happened? Obviously, the engineer resented it. What else would explain it other than a rule?
Electroliner 1935Did early Diesels have safety glass?
On the other hand, laminated armored glass was well known by 1939, and I believe substantial work into aircraft windshields had been done beginning in the early '30s. I would expect that railroads engaging in high-speed streamlined design (many of which would involve E units) would be concerned with things like birdstrike or foreign-object penetration and design windshields and mountings accordingly.
However, while my knowledge is both sketchy and anecdotal, it does not appear that either armored glass or appropriate cushioned sealed mounts in the windshield and cab/nose framing were used on 'production' E units right up to cessation of production circa 1964. In particular I remember one result of a fuel-truck collision, between a gasoline truck and an IC E8 with the E8-style curved glass numberboards, where both the numberboards and the windshields had promptly fractured in the impact and let flaming gasoline in torrents straight into the cab. That image has stuck with me over the years and significantly influenced my thinking on even medium-speed locomotive crash resistance -- its potential relevance here being that two decades or more after the FT era, GM cab-unit windshields were still minimally impact-resistant in applicable terms.
Overmod... In particular I remember one result of a fuel-truck collision, between a gasoline truck and an IC E8 with the E8-style curved glass numberboards, where both the numberboards and the windshields had promptly fractured in the impact and let flaming gasoline in torrents straight into the cab. That image has stuck with me over the years and significantly influenced my thinking on even medium-speed locomotive crash resistance -- its potential relevance here being that two decades or more after the FT era, GM cab-unit windshields were still minimally impact-resistant in applicable terms.
In particular I remember one result of a fuel-truck collision, between a gasoline truck and an IC E8 with the E8-style curved glass numberboards, where both the numberboards and the windshields had promptly fractured in the impact and let flaming gasoline in torrents straight into the cab. That image has stuck with me over the years and significantly influenced my thinking on even medium-speed locomotive crash resistance -- its potential relevance here being that two decades or more after the FT era, GM cab-unit windshields were still minimally impact-resistant in applicable terms.
The accident is described in HE 1780 .A34 no. NTSB-RHR-71-7. It can be accessed through https://dotlibrary.specialcollection.net/Home . The form of the site has been changed and makes it harder to access accident reports if you are 'fishing', The accident happened on the Illinois Central Railroad on January 24, 1970.
I might add that while trying to find the above accident, I stumbled across a IC accident when a tank car load of nitromethane exploded. At the time nitromethane was not considered a hazardous material. ???????? Rules written in blood.
EuclidI assume they do have such a rule that prohibits any attempt to yield to animals. Why else would this have happened? Obviously, the engineer resented it. What else would explain it other than a rule?
I doubt that it is spelled out that blatently, What I was thinking.....actually something more along the lines of a prohibition against a crew "knowingly impeding" employer's primary mission, or " failure to execute employee's duty in the most expeditious manner possible",,,,,with a verbal instruction that stopping for animals is seen as such an instance.
But yeah, I agree, the video is very likely some form of protest by a disgruntled whistleblower.
Convicted OneWhat I was thinking.....actually something more along the lines of a prohibition against a crew "knowingly impeding" employer's primary mission, or " failure to execute employee's duty in the most expeditious manner possible",,,,,with a verbal instruction that stopping for animals is seen as such an instance.
Probably the only real effective 'mitigation' is to do as in Britain and fence the whole of the line against intrusion. That's laughable to consider in most of the West, just for starters.
The idea of long-range monitoring and, perhaps, the option of more controlled stopping or 'airborne persuasion' remains interesting if it can be made cost-effective and reliable -- probably, as I noted, by being 'piggybacked' on other, more important or 'rewarding, functionality.
Animals have occupied the land long before 'property rights' and migrate to follow their food sources over the course of a year.
All the calls to erect fences and wall act in a negative manner to the historical inhabitants of the land - inhabitants that have been a part of the land from long before the creation of man made history.
OvermodI suspect it may be as simple as referencing the time-honored "the safe course must always be followed"
Perhaps coupled with a little ~institutional knowledge~ that -" Ol' Billy-Bob stopped for some sheep a few years back and got a 30 day vacation, as a reward"-?
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