Watched (again) the episode of Mighty Trains about the Rocky Mountaineer the other day.
They had a section discussing how they were putting remote battery powered warning devices attached to the rail giving the animals more warning time reducing the collisions.
BaltACD The most frequent result of trains running over wildlife is that they will get entangled in the traction motors and/or cause air hoses to become uncoupled and placing the train in emergency. This happend more than once on Amtrak operating on my territory. In one case as the Amtrak crew inspected their train that found out that not only had the animal caused air hose to uncouple, it had also damaged the HEP cable and left the train without power for lighting, heating or cooling. Animal's revenge.
The most frequent result of trains running over wildlife is that they will get entangled in the traction motors and/or cause air hoses to become uncoupled and placing the train in emergency. This happend more than once on Amtrak operating on my territory. In one case as the Amtrak crew inspected their train that found out that not only had the animal caused air hose to uncouple, it had also damaged the HEP cable and left the train without power for lighting, heating or cooling. Animal's revenge.
Back in the days of light, wood freight cars some railroads had instructions requiring crews to stop and inspect the train after running over a large animal, as the carcass could become wedged underneath and potentially cause a derailment.
I could see it happening in specific circumstances even today, moose, cattle and bison are pretty substantial creatures with thick bones, and empty aluminum cars only weigh about 20 tons.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Time to bring back cowcatchers!
When my wife and I lived near Richmond, she would drive to Williamsburg once a week. We installed deer whistles on her bumper because if it worked, it was cheap insurance. If it didn't, it was cheap confidence.
My Wrangler has a rack I fabricated eighteen years ago. I evidently did something with the way the steel tubing is aligned because after installing it, deer would run away fast. Before it, I could spot the deer and not have them react. After....they clearly were scared of it. I never noticed any sounds myself. I recently built a new rack, but oriented the cross bars sideways so no open steel ends exposed to the front. The deer ignore me again.
So there may be something to those little plastic confidence boosters.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Let me add some more to this nonsense.
Once in my B&SV days, I was running the afternoon train back into town. A deer wanders onto the tracks and stops. He's far enough away, so I turn on the bell. He turns his whole body towards us, I guess to get a better look. And he justs stands there. We get a little closer and I give a few toots on the horn. At the sound of the horn, he finally runs off the track.
One night (post B&SV days) out west where we parallel US 30, a deer slowly starts walking across both tracks. We're on the south track. He crosses the north track ands starts across the south one, our track. It's not close but we were going faster than the B&SV would be going. I blow the horn, expecting it to "hurry up" across the south track. Nope, it turns around, slowly walks across the north track, into the ditch and out onto US 30. Where it promptly gets hit by a vehicle.
Speakingof deer whistles, which I don't think anyone has recently, I think there effectiveness depends on the what the deer is doing. If it's just casually walking around, grazing on the grass along the right of way, they might get the deer's attention. It might look around fo where the sound is coming from. (For all I know, the whistles might be playing "Ode to Joy.")
If the deer is on the run, either scared by something or just in a hurry, the whistles might not make much of an impression. At least not enough to get them to stop to look or listen.
JeffK
Murphy Siding Euclid The reason antelopes try to outrun trains rather than attempt to evade them is that they do not realise that the train cannot follow them as they change course. They don't realise it because they have never tried it to learn that it works. I understand that you don't like references to Darwin, but this isn't too far off from how it was explained back in grade school. Those antelope that veer off live to reproduce and have babies that are probably a little more train smart. Those that keep running until they get hit by a train do not. You talked about what kind of horn honking would scare antelope off the tracks. Maybe there's your opportunity. Develop an auxiliary horn for use in antelope country and sell it to western & Canadian railroads.
Euclid The reason antelopes try to outrun trains rather than attempt to evade them is that they do not realise that the train cannot follow them as they change course. They don't realise it because they have never tried it to learn that it works.
The reason antelopes try to outrun trains rather than attempt to evade them is that they do not realise that the train cannot follow them as they change course. They don't realise it because they have never tried it to learn that it works.
I understand that you don't like references to Darwin, but this isn't too far off from how it was explained back in grade school. Those antelope that veer off live to reproduce and have babies that are probably a little more train smart. Those that keep running until they get hit by a train do not. You talked about what kind of horn honking would scare antelope off the tracks. Maybe there's your opportunity. Develop an auxiliary horn for use in antelope country and sell it to western & Canadian railroads.
Yes, maybe there would be a market for some sort of horn-like signal acting as a wild animal prod to get them to move out of the way. It might be well received in animal country.
Lots of animals get killed in India Railway train videos. In many cases, the animals are oblivious to the danger. Often, they just stand there looking at the train until they are struck. Sometimes the trains make an emergency application and stop just short of the animal. Sometimes, they hit elephants. Sometimes, the train slows down and just follows the animal because they stay on the track.
Operation Herdsaver
The bad thing is that pronghorn (they aren't really antelope) aren't supposed to be very good eating, so no one even got a good meal out of it.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
BackshopThey heard stories from "down south" about how their relatives used to outrun MILW and CRI&P trains on bad track.
The ACS - Antelope Communication System
Euclid Well, I don't if it is true, but most of the news stories say that antelope are sort of wired to out-run rather than make evasive moves to escape. If they can outrun it, they can escape it. They are probably thinking about other 4-legged predators, though, and not trains. I don't know how much of their decision is based on snow depth and the snow on the track being shallow. Being that they are trying to escape by out-running the train, they probably figure they can run the fastest in the shallow snow on the tracks. They may not know that trains need to be on tracks in order to chase antelopes.
Well, I don't if it is true, but most of the news stories say that antelope are sort of wired to out-run rather than make evasive moves to escape. If they can outrun it, they can escape it. They are probably thinking about other 4-legged predators, though, and not trains.
I don't know how much of their decision is based on snow depth and the snow on the track being shallow. Being that they are trying to escape by out-running the train, they probably figure they can run the fastest in the shallow snow on the tracks. They may not know that trains need to be on tracks in order to chase antelopes.
They heard stories from "down south" about how their relatives used to outrun MILW and CRI&P trains on bad track.
Every time I think of that video, I keep waiting on the engineer to turn on the windshield wipers. (Dawn of the Dead reference)
Euclid RKFarms A few comments about this subject from a non-railroading retired farmer: after living in the same house for almost 60 years, the wildlife population has changed, and does seem to be more bold around humans. I have had multiple encounters and near-misses with the local deer population and the only thing I have used that helped was the horn. If deer can be seen before they hit you, blasting the horn often will get them to angle away from the road. I wondered if this was true with locomotives-loud horn blasts, turn the bell on-does this help? I think horn sounding might help with certain kinds of animals. But, they reported that those antelope in that CP event will always attempt to outrun the train. And if they are running away from a train, they must not need any horn to warn them. Also, the proper horn signal for that situation is a prolong series of short, sharp toots. Presumably, that has a sound of ugency that might help get the animal's attention. In the video, they were blowing the horn, but not that signal. It sounded like a prolonged, soft, wail with slight pauses here and there.
RKFarms A few comments about this subject from a non-railroading retired farmer: after living in the same house for almost 60 years, the wildlife population has changed, and does seem to be more bold around humans. I have had multiple encounters and near-misses with the local deer population and the only thing I have used that helped was the horn. If deer can be seen before they hit you, blasting the horn often will get them to angle away from the road. I wondered if this was true with locomotives-loud horn blasts, turn the bell on-does this help?
A few comments about this subject from a non-railroading retired farmer: after living in the same house for almost 60 years, the wildlife population has changed, and does seem to be more bold around humans.
I have had multiple encounters and near-misses with the local deer population and the only thing I have used that helped was the horn. If deer can be seen before they hit you, blasting the horn often will get them to angle away from the road. I wondered if this was true with locomotives-loud horn blasts, turn the bell on-does this help?
I think horn sounding might help with certain kinds of animals. But, they reported that those antelope in that CP event will always attempt to outrun the train. And if they are running away from a train, they must not need any horn to warn them. Also, the proper horn signal for that situation is a prolong series of short, sharp toots. Presumably, that has a sound of ugency that might help get the animal's attention. In the video, they were blowing the horn, but not that signal. It sounded like a prolonged, soft, wail with slight pauses here and there.
So they were using the horn as a mating call?
Murphy Siding Euclid RKFarms A few comments about this subject from a non-railroading retired farmer: after living in the same house for almost 60 years, the wildlife population has changed, and does seem to be more bold around humans. I have had multiple encounters and near-misses with the local deer population and the only thing I have used that helped was the horn. If deer can be seen before they hit you, blasting the horn often will get them to angle away from the road. I wondered if this was true with locomotives-loud horn blasts, turn the bell on-does this help? I think horn sounding might help with certain kinds of animals. But, they reported that those antelope in that CP event will always attempt to outrun the train. And if they are running away from a train, they must not need any horn to warn them. Also, the proper horn signal for that situation is a prolong series of short, sharp toots. Presumably, that has a sound of ugency that might help get the animal's attention. In the video, they were blowing the horn, but not that signal. It sounded like a prolonged, soft, wail with slight pauses here and there. I dunno. I can't buy into the idea that there's a certain tune that you have to play with the horn in order to get antelope off the track. Do you play Shave and a haircut, two bits! for antelope and Ode to Joy for deer? I tend to think that the animals just get used to the sound of the horns after a while.
I dunno. I can't buy into the idea that there's a certain tune that you have to play with the horn in order to get antelope off the track. Do you play Shave and a haircut, two bits! for antelope and Ode to Joy for deer? I tend to think that the animals just get used to the sound of the horns after a while.
Sounds like a good option for a multi-million dollar study where you watch trains in the mountains.
Convicted One Murphy Siding What do the pilots do now? A jet traveling at 500 mph covers 8-1/3 miles in a minute's time. I don't think tapping the brakes when you see a flock of geese will gain you much. I suppose you could pull a "Kenneth Arnold" and blame it on forces beyond your comprehension...
Murphy Siding What do the pilots do now? A jet traveling at 500 mph covers 8-1/3 miles in a minute's time. I don't think tapping the brakes when you see a flock of geese will gain you much.
I suppose you could pull a "Kenneth Arnold" and blame it on forces beyond your comprehension...
They try to avoid birds. Sometimes it doesn't work out so well..i.e. Chesley Sullenburger.."we'll be in the Hudson"..
Backshop Ulrich Here's an idea.. perhaps drones could be used to fly ahead of trains in areas where large animal herds have been known to congregate.. the drones would relay back to crews and to the train dispatch center.. " herd two miles ahead".. engineer may then apply the brakes and avoid killing a bunch of animals. Or perhaps better yet, drones could be used to shepard herds off the tracks and to safety. Last that I checked, railroads were trying to reduce 2 man crews to 1, not add a third member. Most commercial, inexpensive drones have limited range and endurance.
Ulrich Here's an idea.. perhaps drones could be used to fly ahead of trains in areas where large animal herds have been known to congregate.. the drones would relay back to crews and to the train dispatch center.. " herd two miles ahead".. engineer may then apply the brakes and avoid killing a bunch of animals. Or perhaps better yet, drones could be used to shepard herds off the tracks and to safety.
Here's an idea.. perhaps drones could be used to fly ahead of trains in areas where large animal herds have been known to congregate.. the drones would relay back to crews and to the train dispatch center.. " herd two miles ahead".. engineer may then apply the brakes and avoid killing a bunch of animals. Or perhaps better yet, drones could be used to shepard herds off the tracks and to safety.
Last that I checked, railroads were trying to reduce 2 man crews to 1, not add a third member. Most commercial, inexpensive drones have limited range and endurance.
No third crew member required as any engineering student today could design a system that is automated for this purpose. Most drones today would have the endurance and range, and they're getting better and cheaper every day.
And you may be sharing YOUR home with them.
The amazing thing with wildlife we see around suburban areas is that they all have their own 'homes' somewhere in the near area. We may not see their homes, but they have them, otherwise they would not be in the area.
I live in a big city and raccoons are everywhere. They don't get in my garbage bin because I keep a cinder block on top of it, but that doesn't stop them from wandering around on my patio or porch roof which they sometimes use as a toilet. This past summer I go into my garage and what comes out from behind my roll-away toolbox but a skunk! I was paralyzed! It walked about 6 inches from me and never reacted but I'm still paranoid when I go to get my car out.
A few years ago I go into the garage and I had left a bag of rags on the floor. Something is in the bag. A possum and the damned thing hissed at me! I thought they were supposed to play dead! I swatted it with a broom and it took off.
Toronto has tree-filled ravines all over the city and they have coyotes in them and they also cruise around residential areas with not a care in the world. They're too smart to let themselves be caught. Out in the burbs there are the occasional fox and rural areas have bears. If you need to get out of your car to see what the other side of a tree looks like, be very careful. Once when driving near Parry Sound, a highway crew was dragging a dead bear off the road. I guess his pickanick basket swiping days are over.
London, England has foxes everywhere, they're almost as common as raccoons are here. A fox was found at the top of The Shard building when it was almost finished being built. Tallest building in Europe.
okay, let's think about this.
Unless you know about them well ahead of time it would be pretty hard to have any significant reduction in speed before striking the animals.
a engineer isn't just going to throw the throttle in idle and get into heavy dynamic braking and set a ton of air without a very very good reason. Avoiding a herd of animals that have no risk of derailing the train is not a good reason IMO. First you run the risk of derailing the train when you rapidly change the slack state of the train like that. Second i guarantee you will flag your tapes (locomotives automatically send emails out to the company if you violate certain train handling rules now) for many reasons and company Officials will be investigating your whole trip with a magnifying glass and will most definitely be trying to discipline and or fire you. if you don't believe the railroads do that, google the time not too long ago where a carman was fired for rescuing a kitten from a railcar....
The third reason is by the time you got the train to slow down you still would have mowed over all the animals anyways!
I hate hitting animals, and I do what I can within reason to avoid it but I'm not going to risk my job or the safety of my train to do so.
GoodtimingI don’t see any attempt at slowing down through the whole herd. Not good!
SD70Dude I'd like to meet the coyote that could catch a healthy antelope without the aid of ACME products.
I'd like to meet the coyote that could catch a healthy antelope without the aid of ACME products.
I'm not sure that ACME products would help catch an antelope, healthy or otherwise. Those procducts never really helped a certain coyote catch the road runner.
Council Bluffs yard at one time was overrun with turkeys and deer. Some large specimens of both. Then it was said a coyote moved in. The deer are still around but not as many turkeys in the yard as before.
Jeff
Back to Alberta, we have urban coyotes too. Ours have also learned that cats, dogs and garbage make far easier meals than rabbits, squirrels or deer, all of which are found in abundance in suburban areas. Edmonton's populations are helped along by our river valley park system, which I believe is the largest continuous urban park in North America.
Calgary has raccoons, so far Edmonton does not.
Black bears, cougars and wolves can be found only a few miles outside of Edmonton, and all three have become established in Elk Island National Park, a remnant of forested land east of Edmonton, which is surrounded by miles and miles of farmland.
In addition to the other more common predators, Calgarians have had some close encounters with grizzly bears in recent years, and they are becoming a farm nuisance in southern Alberta, where the prairie extends right up to the mountains.
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