TRAIN WECK IN Granitville,SC

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

There wasn't a automatic signal to tell if the signal was thrown was there? Maybe a dwarf or something?

It is unsignalled a.k.a. "dark" territory. No track circuits, no signals, nothing. Train and switch position information is passed verbally between the train and dispatcher over the radio. There are specific procedures/rules in place to minimize the chance of human error, but the possibility always exists.

There is quite a bit of light density "dark" mainline track in the southeast. Signalling is expensive to install and maintain and, up to now, anyway, the benefit has not been felt to be felt to be worth the expense.

[Junctionfan]

There wasn't a automatic signal to tell if the signal was thrown was there? Maybe a dwarf or something?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

QUOTE: Originally posted by CleveUnionTerm

What kind of marker did the switch (have/use) to show its alignment at the wreck site?
A key to safe railroading is to know your territory and to be alert to all switches therein.
Never take switch alignment for granted wherever you run.
C.C.C.& St.L. Ry.

never take switch alignment for granted. so you are saying that at 55mph i should slow down 1 mile before i get to the switch make sure it is right then go back to notch 8 for 2 miles slow down again until i get to crew change point. ... why dont i just stop and flag all crossing also .

FOFLMAO...

Wabash, while you're at it how 'bout having cab signals installed and electric locks on all switches off the main??

CC- Have you ever run a train at 40+ mph??? Seeing a switch target at 2:40am from any distance in your headlight/ditchlights is tough enough let alone at that closing speed. The fact that Chris saw the misaligned switch and dumped the train (according to NTSB) is testimony to the fact that he was reasonable alert. Just not enough time to make a difference.

LC

LC,

When you say "dumped the train" do you mean put it in emergency? Do they know how far ahead of the switch the engineer was able to do it? I feel so bad for the crew and town.

I read on CNN that the previous crew forgot to realign the switch? Does anyone know if there is any truth to that?

Gabe

Gabe-

Yes, "dumping the train" is placing it in emergency. I don't know exactly where the engineer put it into emergency, only that NTSB reports are confirming (as does the wreckage pile) that the train was put into emergency prior to impact.

The NTSB apparently suspects that the crew of the local left the switch open.

LC

[jeaton]

There is something I don't get. I don't like speculating on these things, but...

According to reports, the switch was found open for the siding, but locked. Now I haven't seen anything about the work that the local crew was doing, but it seems to me that in almost any circumstance, the open switch would be left unlocked. If the job pulled off the main just before tie up, it seems that the conductor of brakeman would have opened the switch, let the train pass, closed the switch lined for the main and locked. If the train was working on the siding (isn't it an industry lead) for a while before tie up, it also seems that the switch would have been closed and locked. I guess that it is possible that the open switched would be locked just so someone didn't come by and steal the lock, but it just leaves me puzzled.

I'll leave it to those of you that walk the rocks to explain the typical drill on this.

Jay

[CleveUnionTerm]

Wabash1 use a little "common sense"...you're running 55MPH at nite and you think you
own the railroad, but you also know your territory.... there is a (plant with a switch/switches) ahead....you continue to make track speed, but also
subconsciously you say "hey maybe the local is still working late? or something could
be fouling the main, duh, duh, lets look for the switch target or switch alignment. Not the time to reach down for your next sandwich or check your earrings....and lets say the switch IS against you, and just MAYBE you can "BIG HOLE" it sooner more than later!!! That's the point I am trying to make!
If you think you're such a "hot runner" try working a 16 hours day, off 8 hours and back for another 16....day after day. REMEMBER SAFETY FIRST! If you think you need to
stop and look at the switch.... you do it, peoples lives depend on it! And you're
right, you should slow/stop and flag a crossing if safety conditions dictate.
C.C.C.& St.L Ry.
*For those born after 1976....there was a railroad at one time called the
BIG FOUR (New York Central), I know you've heard of CONRAIL, right?

[oskar]

that is the truth I forgot who said that and I don't think he had that far to put it in emergancy he probaly saw the other train and put it on emergancy





kevin

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

QUOTE: Originally posted by CleveUnionTerm

What kind of marker did the switch (have/use) to show its alignment at the wreck site?
A key to safe railroading is to know your territory and to be alert to all switches therein.
Never take switch alignment for granted wherever you run.
C.C.C.& St.L. Ry.

never take switch alignment for granted. so you are saying that at 55mph i should slow down 1 mile before i get to the switch make sure it is right then go back to notch 8 for 2 miles slow down again until i get to crew change point. ... why dont i just stop and flag all crossing also .

FOFLMAO...

Wabash, while you're at it how 'bout having cab signals installed and electric locks on all switches off the main??

CC- Have you ever run a train at 40+ mph??? Seeing a switch target at 2:40am from any distance in your headlight/ditchlights is tough enough let alone at that closing speed. The fact that Chris saw the misaligned switch and dumped the train (according to NTSB) is testimony to the fact that he was reasonable alert. Just not enough time to make a difference.

LC

LC,

When you say "dumped the train" do you mean put it in emergency? Do they know how far ahead of the switch the engineer was able to do it? I feel so bad for the crew and town.

I read on CNN that the previous crew forgot to realign the switch? Does anyone know if there is any truth to that?

Gabe

[oskar]

I might find out tonight the Lynx are playing tonight before I go to the Parking area I go check out the yard but Sunday CSX 8373 had 7755 with him





kevin

[Anonymous]

I don't know oskar. I was driving so wasn't really paying that much attention.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

QUOTE: Originally posted by CleveUnionTerm

What kind of marker did the switch (have/use) to show its alignment at the wreck site?
A key to safe railroading is to know your territory and to be alert to all switches therein.
Never take switch alignment for granted wherever you run.
C.C.C.& St.L. Ry.

never take switch alignment for granted. so you are saying that at 55mph i should slow down 1 mile before i get to the switch make sure it is right then go back to notch 8 for 2 miles slow down again until i get to crew change point. ... why dont i just stop and flag all crossing also .

FOFLMAO...

Wabash, while you're at it how 'bout having cab signals installed and electric locks on all switches off the main??

CC- Have you ever run a train at 40+ mph??? Seeing a switch target at 2:40am from any distance in your headlight/ditchlights is tough enough let alone at that closing speed. The fact that Chris saw the misaligned switch and dumped the train (according to NTSB) is testimony to the fact that he was reasonably alert. Just not enough time to make a difference.

LC

[oskar]

mark I did not know that. Did the Local have CSX 8373 still running LHF or did it have 2 units CSX 7755 and CSX 8373




kevin

[wabash1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CleveUnionTerm

What kind of marker did the switch (have/use) to show its alignment at the wreck site?
A key to safe railroading is to know your territory and to be alert to all switches therein.
Never take switch alignment for granted wherever you run.
C.C.C.& St.L. Ry.

never take switch alignment for granted. so you are saying that at 55mph i should slow down 1 mile before i get to the switch make sure it is right then go back to notch 8 for 2 miles slow down again until i get to crew change point. ... why dont i just stop and flag all crossing also .

[ericsp]

Sodium hydroxide is NaOH.

[CleveUnionTerm]

What kind of marker did the switch (have/use) to show its alignment at the wreck site?
A key to safe railroading is to know your territory and to be alert to all switches therein.
Never take switch alignment for granted wherever you run.
C.C.C.& St.L. Ry.

[Anonymous]

Oskar, it is positive train control. Check out the January 2001TRAINS. It mentions the sub using PTC. I figured they did. No signals near the sidings or the mains. I know CSX does some crazy stuff with PTC. I was heading home today and saw a mixed merchandise train train in the Martinez siding and an empty northbound coal train on the other track and a local stopped short.

[Anonymous]

I believe it actually did, but I am not certain. They said on the news that they have one tank car patched but have to go and put on another patch on tomorrow on a seperate car I do believe. That's why they are not letting the citizens of Graniteville back into their houses until Wednesday. They have to do that and transload it into some tanker trucks.

[Anonymous]

You Railfans should stop guessing and wait for the facts

[CSXrules4eva]

It's a shame this terrible accident happened. I also understand that sodium hydoxide was carried in one of the chemical cars that was involved w/ the derailment. I don't know if the NaCl2 HO3 leaked as well. I hope it didn't that stuff is dangerous believe it or not. Best wishes to the train crew and victums families. They'll need it.

[oskar]

no I did not read that and I dont think they use a positive control

also how many times do you visit Augusta I might visit Greenwood February 18 or March 11





kevin

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by markgatech

Oskar, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Spartanburg Sub use Positive Train Control? There isn't one signal on the line, I believe the signal goes directly to the crew in the cab. Also, looks like Norfolk Southern is going to pay big for this. Oskar, did you read the Augusta Chronicle, an ad states "Railroad Injuries" "If you or a loved one has been exposed to chlorine gas, or injured by the negligence of the railroad, please call us. We want to help."

Sounds to me like somebody wants to make some rain.

[Anonymous]

Oskar, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Spartanburg Sub use Positive Train Control? There isn't one signal on the line, I believe the signal goes directly to the crew in the cab. Also, looks like Norfolk Southern is going to pay big for this. Oskar, did you read the Augusta Chronicle, an ad states "Railroad Injuries" "If you or a loved one has been exposed to chlorine gas, or injured by the negligence of the railroad, please call us. We want to help."

[oskar]

Ventrue CSX in Augusta and parts of south Flordia still uses DTC so CSX still dose it


they have done it they pluged the tanker




kevin

[wabash1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomubee

Wabash 1. You may be right about the responsibilities of the engineer for determining that mainline switch and derail were locked in place for main track movement, but during the forthcoming investigation the local engineer will be asked if he did all that was possible to avoid the incident that occurred. If in the course of that line of questioning he states that he assumed that the ground crew had carried out their responsibities and did double check position of switch and derail, he will again be asked if he did everything possible to protect against such a catastropic event. The engineer and the crew may be totally innocent of any negligence, and the switch may have been opened and locked by saboteurs. (Railroad switch keys are easily obtained at any flea market.) The sorry fact is that if ground crew is found to be negligent, the engineer, as most people who have suffered through an official investigation will attest, will be found to be in some part responsible for the accident. It may not be justice in the true sense of the word, but it will be the railroad's particular justice. My prayers are for all the parties involved.

I am not sure where you get your info but i can tell you know if i shove my train back and tie it down and get off my resposibility is done. no matter what is asked of me.

[Justicar]

Does CSX no longer use DTC (Direct Traffic Control)? Soo Line, or CP Rail (depending how long ago), used DTC but now uses TWC. I would guess they've been using TWC for at least 10 years.

[Junctionfan]

My deepest regrets for the families of both crews and civilians. 28 is way too young; death belongs to the old where age has naturally taken its course. If he has a family and I sure he does, I wi***o give them my prayers.

I hope you are doing well L.C. If you go to the funeral, let the family know that the forum prays for them if it be appropriate.

[Anonymous]

My heart goes out to all families who have lost loved ones in this tragedy. As an engineer myself, I ran on dark territory at 49 mph with all manner of tonnage/lading behind me. It always crossed my mind how easy it would be for some idiot with an easily attained switch key to cause unbelievable devastation by simply lining a switch. That's the first thought that comes to my mind here.

If it is determined the local crew "forgot" to line the switch, or dispatcher error, then it will be interesting to see what changes, in rules or technology, are implemented due to this. It's a guarantee something will be done--as you know, the RR's react to any major incident with rule changes.

Rick

[oskar]

the switch was the problem of the wreck the switch had no sign of tampering with




kevin

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RudyRockvilleMD

A DC City Council member reintroduced a bill as emergency legislation to either ban or require a permit to ship hazardous materials by rail through Washington, D.C. This bill was prompted by the NS derailment in Graniteville, SC which released Chlorine gas. The D.C. City Council defeated a similar bill recently. Their concern was the CSX freight bypass tracks in Washington, DC pass within a few blocks of the Capito, andl terrorist action might derail a freight train with cars carrying hazardous materials, and release toxic gasses.

The most expedient CSX way to bypass DC is to be routed via Cincinnati.....adding at least 500 more miles of Hazmat exposure to the trip and passing through additional Metropolitan areas. Let the politicians deal with politics....the screw that up enough.

[Anonymous]

Wabash 1. You may be right about the responsibilities of the engineer for determining that mainline switch and derail were locked in place for main track movement, but during the forthcoming investigation the local engineer will be asked if he did all that was possible to avoid the incident that occurred. If in the course of that line of questioning he states that he assumed that the ground crew had carried out their responsibities and did double check position of switch and derail, he will again be asked if he did everything possible to protect against such a catastropic event. The engineer and the crew may be totally innocent of any negligence, and the switch may have been opened and locked by saboteurs. (Railroad switch keys are easily obtained at any flea market.) The sorry fact is that if ground crew is found to be negligent, the engineer, as most people who have suffered through an official investigation will attest, will be found to be in some part responsible for the accident. It may not be justice in the true sense of the word, but it will be the railroad's particular justice. My prayers are for all the parties involved.

[oskar]

Breaking News the death toll has gone to 9 people they found the body in the mill




kevin