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TRAIN WECK IN Granitville,SC

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Posted by oskar on Sunday, January 16, 2005 3:23 PM
Mark were you driving a green pick up truck today

I will have the trains that I saw on saturday and today in about 2 hours




kevin
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 16, 2005 12:20 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

Oh how happy businesses would be if they couldn't sued due to the actions of their employees. Oh how sad, I would be because there wouldn't be any lawyers.

Gabe


Gabe, you know better than that...

The lawyers would simply switch over to white collar crime and RICO that would be sure to blossom in such an environment. Lawyers always land on their feet...

LC
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Posted by oskar on Sunday, January 16, 2005 10:32 AM
I belive it is going to be in the empty space where the masters train is I am getting ready to go and see where they put them they are going to send 13 cars of scrap soon but I am not sure what happened to th other 2 I only saw one that got pulled in

I will have the movements later and today's




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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 16, 2005 8:13 AM
OSKAR, is the Norfolk Southern damaged locomotive in Norfolk Southern's yard, or near the Bulk Transfer Facility? What all did you see as far as movements yesterday?
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Posted by gabe on Saturday, January 15, 2005 11:06 PM
Oh how happy businesses would be if they couldn't sued due to the actions of their employees. Oh how sad, I would be because there wouldn't be any lawyers.

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Posted by oskar on Saturday, January 15, 2005 9:33 PM
I have two things NS 6593 was pulled back in Augusta the other 2 was unknown

Ventrue NS should not be sued the crew of the local it's not NS fualt




PS [censored][censored]




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Posted by Justicar on Saturday, January 15, 2005 2:50 PM
Norfolk Southern SHOULD be sued. What was it, 8 civilians died? Those several thousand town's people were driven outta their homes for days on end? If I was one of those people....do you think I'd sue NS? If UP got some cars on the ground on their mainline which is a block away from my house and I had to go stay in a hotel for a week and would have lost my life if I had been home to breathe the nasty things they spilled ya think I would sue UP? Norfolk Southern, or whichever one of your favorite railroads happens to be operating the train, is responsible and will be compensating those affected. I'd be willing to bet a set of anglebars that in nearly 100% of railways incidents where the public is affected or harmed lawsuits are filed and the railroads pay dearly. NS in Graniteville is not being singled out.
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Posted by oskar on Saturday, January 15, 2005 2:43 PM
well NS is back on track just a little I saw a couple of trains and now where they put the masters train they have a damaged tanker on a flat car. Mark get a picture of it if you get a chance

also you missed alot want me to fill you in




kevin
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Posted by Junctionfan on Saturday, January 15, 2005 2:37 PM
I know it's got to be quite expensive to do this but maybe the railroads are going to have to put either a drawf signal at the switches or have some even better, have some kind of a computer display of the switches so the conductor of any active train approaching the area can warn the engineer in advance if the switch is thrown against them.

Puting some kind of indicator on the switches to show which way it is thrown and it being displayed on the cab's computer consol, would increase safety as well as moral for the crews who normally must get nervous everytime they are at track speed going through a switch.
Andrew
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Posted by oskar on Saturday, January 15, 2005 7:54 AM
yeah that's bad I was pissed off when they were sueing NS I did not see any other lawsuits againts other railroads after they wrecked.




kevin
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Posted by halifaxcn on Saturday, January 15, 2005 7:44 AM
Local radio news station WBZ radio 1030 had a blurb that lawyers are trying to start a class action lawsuit aganinst NS. Report stated that they were to go before a judge sometime next week for the status. Other lawsuits are pending for wrongful death. failure to maintain swicth and training of the crews. I was half awake driving to work at 6AM when they had it on.

I am sure that this was taken off wire service and other media outlets may have it.
Frank San Severino CP-198 Amtrak NEC Attleboro, MA
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Posted by wabash1 on Saturday, January 15, 2005 6:00 AM
clevethe union what ever

Running low on brains i see when you didnt have anything constructive to say you started in with the spelling .. this out of a guy who spells night nite. then you start the regular maybe i should be a train master or rfe bla bla bla crap and i should be a new hire bla bla bla as you see this dont bother me and you will never bother me. it takes more than that to get to me. now to bring some light to this you started mixing signal territory with dark territory. you cant do this i can see signals miles away dark territory there is no signal .... in other words you are there before you can react. Let me let you in on a something that i can tell you have no idea about engines. when you are standing on the ground looking at these big things you see 3 big lights how far up the tracks do you think these lights let you see.. hint at 20 mph we are already out running our headlights... you dont see as far as you think. problem in dark territory you come around a curve see a target wrong its to late to do anything . even in signal territory ive come up on bad targets but the switch be good.

but i can see i have already went over your head with the information here and that you need time to figure out what you can lash out with or against me. feel free to do so. it dont take much intelegence to out do you. you are the average rail buff who i wont allow to get around my engines. and feel lucky .. if i was a trainmaster or a road foreman i would have all railbuffs arrested... just because of people like you make it hard on everyone else. If you want to know about railroading get rid of the 7 year old mentality and listen. seems like we have the m&m thing going again
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Posted by Justicar on Friday, January 14, 2005 11:31 PM
CleveUnionTerm, the local switch crew reportedly finished their work for the day and left their train more than 7 hours before the collision occurred. Although I can't say that it would be completely surprising for the switch crew to still be working at 2 in the morning since I have no knowledge of typical operations down there, however I can say there's a good chance that the switch crew had gone home before the crew that hit their train even went on duty. To purport that this crew should have been expecting the unexpected and been mindful that someone might be working in Graniteville when they approached this switch and that they should have been completely focused on looking for switch targets and other signs of oddities is at least ill-informed, and perhaps even fantastical.

Jeaton, again, I have no clue what operations are like down there aside from what I have read since the accident, but its a good idea to get in the habit of keeping your switch keys with you at all times. Some guys carry extra sets of switch keys or carry different switch keys on different rings, but if your not one of those guys and you lose your keys or someone steals them then the remainder of your tour of duty might be severely limited. The mainline switch in question probably had a high security lock and like someone else said you must lock it in order to remove your keys. This means you have to lock the switch in one position or the other, or close the lock and let it hang on the chain or fall to the ground. If its a switch I'm going to use more than once and I need my keys for a derail or a gate then I tend to unlock the switch, close the lock, remove my keys and leave the lock hanging. These guys at Graniteville, if they in fact were the ones to last handle that switch, may have NOT wanted to do that so that they could trust the switch would be lined and locked for the main in case they needed to take headroom for switching, or they simply didn't want someone to steal the lock.

And finally, I predict no major changes in regulations from the FRA, or any other agency for that matter. I also predict no major changes in method of operation from Norfolk Southern or any other railroad. The fact of the matter is rules already exist to prevent the sort of thing that is alleged to have happened. All of the facts are not in by any means but the leading suspected issue is the switch crew's handling of the main line switch. The FRA will simply tighten the screws on the railroads mostly using rules and regulations long in existance. In turn, the railroads will tighten the screws on us, the crews. There will be training, classes, safety blitzes, meetings, bulletins and all sorts of talk about improving operating and safety rule compliance. Will NS install ABS or CTC on that line? No. Will they install any sort of local signal system at Graniteville? Probably not. Will this accident elevate any other railroad's priorities on installing signal systems? Nope. Signal systems are installed on freight lines to increase line capacity and efficiency. Its almost completely a question of money.

Thats my two cents....your mileage may vary.

CP Rail, St Paul, MN
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Posted by oskar on Friday, January 14, 2005 10:00 PM
mark how's monday every ones off




kevin
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Posted by WSOR 3801 on Friday, January 14, 2005 6:32 PM
As to the switch being locked for the siding...

Many locks are of the high-security type. On these, you cannot get your key out of the lock unless you lock it back up. Not working for NS, I cannot say whether their locks are of this type. On the WSOR we have high-security locks and brass locks on derails, gates, less-critical applications. The brass locks can be opened and then the key removed.

My condolences to the afflicted.

Mike WSOR cndr

Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 14, 2005 5:41 PM
I wish I was but I have to unload a truck; so much fun.
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Posted by oskar on Friday, January 14, 2005 2:33 PM
the units are NS 6593 and NS 6553 I saw the 6553 in Folkston with SOO 6060 back in October

Mark are you going to see trains tommow if you are I will be on Taylor Street





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Posted by oskar on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:27 PM
Mark it was behind Club Car near old evans road




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Posted by arbfbe on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:20 PM
If the railroads wanted trains to slow down and inspect switches in dark territory they would institute YARD LIMITS in these areas. This requires all trains in these areas to be at a speed at which they can stop short of any switches not properly lined among many other things. Since the railroads don't have such requirements at these places the crews run at authorized track speed. Perhaps the FRA will require yard limits at all locations where switches lined for other than the mainline give a restrictive signal indication.

Just noting the restoration of the switch on a form will not give absolute protection unless two or more employees physically inspect the switch to insure that is indeed true. The railroad industry is full of instances where one employee aligns the switch properly and another comes along right behind them and lines it for the incorrect route. It seems incomprehensible but it happens. The rules require employees on the ground to inspect a train at a meeting point to stand on the side of the track on the opposite side of a hand throw switch since there are many, many recorded instances where that employee saw the train coming and lined the switch into the face of their own train at the last moment. Switchmen in yards can and do line switches directly underneath cars moving directly in front of them.

Murphys Law applies here, if it can, it will. If anyone can find the solution for this defect in human nature please let us all know, ASAP. In spite of all this the railroads are hell bent on reducing crew sizes even more until there is but one living person on the train. Then there will not even be the safe guard of two minds, four eyes and more years of experience to control the situation. No hearings in Congress, little input from the FRA, just the railroads making those demands in contractual negotiations. It should get to be real fun then.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:15 PM
No oskar- i don't even remember a coal train derailing here in 1997. Of course i was like 11 or 12 or something.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 7:57 PM
Wabash-

I don't know what ideas I'd be giving them. The NTSB has already said everything I have said on the front page of the NY Times. I don't think I am telling anyone anything they don't already know...

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Posted by CleveUnionTerm on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 7:29 PM
Originally posted by wabash1

cleveunionterm

Use of common sense is not in you stable is it.. I know my territory and if you would understand not every railroad is the same or uses the same switches and or markers. no i dont guess you would. Now in the daytime it would be easier to see a cut of cars rolled out and fouling the main but at nightime you wont see anything. ( until its to late) the next thing is if you think you are going to slow down at every switch or every crossing you will be fired for delaying a train. ( oh yes this is in the trainmasters rules for firing someone) . so at all times you must run at track speed. kinda blows your theory out of the water now dont it. me i am going track speed. regardless. oh and as far as thinking im a hot runner i have and still do the 16 hr day get back out after 8. and do it 75 days straight before a day off .. why do you think you dont see me on here that much. duh. and i know that the first thing out of your mouth is he is fibbing the 12 hr of service law blah blah blah ...... it says i wont preform duty after 12 hrs it says nothing at all about being on duty. and its been as high as 18hrs on duty. with up to 10 hours off before getting called back out. and as far as the big four they are no longer in buisness now are they......

The thing is why are people making a big deal of this because cars crash everyday trucks a little less . but when planes started falling from the sky people ran around thinking the world was ending then things got better then for the most part amtrak was keeping a schedual of putting one in somebodies back yard on a regular basis. then that got better we have a good record but accidents do happen.

The tapes will show when the train was put in emergency then how far it traveled from there . at that point they can measure back from the resting point of the engine to see where the emegency applacation was done. as far as signals go there is a signal made for dark territory for switches and is not to exspensive and is used on the old southern railroad its called a non automatic block signal.

LC

I thought you worked for the ns?? dont give them ideas like that they alread put derails at the top of hills so no car can roll up hill and out on to the main line.

Wabash: If you can't SEE at NIGHT you shouldn't be working on the railroad!
Quote: "at night time you wont see anything until its to late" Can you see the signals?
Sorry, it doesn't work that way...at night time you need your BEST vision and
must be alert at all times! "SAFETY IS JOB ONE"
You should consider switching to a NON-operating position if you are not
already in one. Recomendation: RFE or TRAINMASTER ride with you
on a regular basis. You must be a NEW hire?
P.S. You wrote "schedual" what does that word mean? Do you mean schedule?
"Gotta Love It"
REMEMBER .."SAFETY FIRST"
Not walking around thinking you know everything!!!
Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago & St. Louis Ry. The "BIG FOUR"

CCC&StLRy

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Posted by oskar on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 2:39 PM
Mark did you read today's News Times there are talking about the 1997 loaded coal train derailment and they said a disaster in Columbia County is minamal.

that's good I live less than a mile and my school is nearby ( well for another 2 years they are blowing it up and putting a new one nearby)




kevin
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 1:05 PM
From BLET Site

Two CSX engines collide in Banks
(The following story by Russell Sellers appeared on The Messenger website on January 12.)

TROY, Ala. -- A CSX freight train collided with a stationary CSX train Tuesday morning around 5 a.m. in the Banks community. The wreck occurred in front of the Banks Primary School.

Neither train had any hazardous materials on board and no injuries were reported.

Neither train derailed in the accident. The moving train sustained little, if any damage. The stationary train, which was unmanned, was heavily damaged.

The main question from the scene centered on a switch that may not have been set correctly. This caused the trains to end up on the same track.

"We can't speculate about what may or may not have happened," CSX spokesman Misty Skipper said. "After our investigators determine what happened we'll certainly take all steps necessary to prevent a similar accident in the future. But we really can't give a timetable for the investigation. It will be very thorough."

In a safety advisory issued Tuesday, the Federal Railroad Administration expressed concern about other accidents caused when railroad employees didn't return hand-operated track switches to their normal position.

"An improperly lined switch invites disaster and can be easily avoided," said Robert Jamison, the FRA's acting chief.

There were 23 train accidents caused by improperly aligned switches during the first nine months of 2004, of a total of 2,577 incidents, according to FRA data.

The FRA notes that most trains operate on tracks that have electronic signals that indicate when a switch is in a position to divert a train off the main track. However, the FRA also said that 40 percent of railroad tracks in the United States are in territories that do not have signals.

In accordance with the safety advisory, inspectors from the FRA will be looking into accidents that were possibly caused by manual switches being out of place.

The safety advisory also said some railroads have already changed their rules to require railroad crews to notify the dispatcher of the switch's position.

This accident comes one month after another train accident in Pike County.

At about 3:15 a.m. on Dec. 11, nine cars of an 89-car train derailed on a couple hundred-yard stretch of track that parallels Alabama Highways 29 and 10, less than a mile outside the Highway 231 overpass. The cars were carrying limestone, pulp paper and wood.

"There has still not been a determination in the cause of that derailment," Skipper said.

Last week, CSX had another derailment in Lowndes County.

No injuries were reported in that incident. However, hazardous materials were aboard that train, although not in the cars that derailed.


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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 11:29 AM
You're kidding, right??? All things were quiet at my terminal when I was off for a few days only to have me return and find my terminal in chaos. A yard crew was spotting some bad order double stack cars and decided to shove them through the car shop. The car shop's clearance is designed for double stacks; however, someone in Evansville or Nashville improperly loaded a container and it was about three inches higher than it should have been. There was a switchman watching the shove, but by the time he noticed, it was too late. The south side of the car shop is gone, large chunks of brick lay everywhere. Then, I was called for second shift yesterday and I heard that a car loaded with soymeal had derailed on the Westville main. So, another accident within two days. I was not suprised to see a Lexus parked in the parking lot when I showed up for work; obviously there was a superintendent here on damage control. Luckily no one has been hurt, I really don't care what we tear up as long as no one gets hurt. Knock on wood................
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 10:58 AM
CSX just had another head on through an open switch in dark territory with a dead train.

LC
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 10:56 AM
Mourners honor Chris Seeling
(The following story by Clif LeBlanc appeared on The State website on January 12.)

COLUMBIA, S.C. -- The engineer in Thursday’s fatal Graniteville train wreck was eulogized Tuesday as a good-hearted fellow who had railroading in his blood.

Christopher Glenn Seeling, 28, left a circle of remembrance that drew about 150 mourners to Columbia’s First Presbyterian Church, many from his railroad family.

As the gathered sang one of his favorite hymns, "Rock of Ages," Seeling’s polished poplar wood casket lay adorned in a spray of red- and peach-colored roses with white carnations.

A harpist filled the sanctuary of the 210-year-old church with the comforting tones of Seeling’s favorite instrument.

The life of Chris Seeling began in Fort Wayne, Ind., but he had become "a good old Southern boy," his brother Eddie Schmidt, 19, wrote in the funeral bulletin.

Seeling, a barrel-chested 6-footer, learned to love hunting and fishing. But his love of the rails was born into him, said Joe Teague, who grew so close to Seeling he considered him family.

"Whenever he heard the whistle, his stepdad would haul him over there, about a mile from the house," Teague, a West Columbia contractor who built Seeling a home here, said in an interview.

"His fascination with trains was on a bigger scale than most young boys," Teague said. "He wanted the real thing."

A family Amtrak vacation trip in 1989 was the final step in setting Seeling onto a career path.

He will be buried Friday in Indiana, where his passion was sparked.

During Tuesday’s service, the Rev. Neal Mathias recalled Seeling’s final train ride.

"Last Thursday morning, lots of things went wrong," Mathias said. "Lots of things came undone."

Yet the minister asked the mourners to follow Seeling’s lead by turning to God for guidance and solace.

Brian McLaughlin was the first engineer to train Seeling as he prepared to become a Norfolk Southern engineer.

McLaughlin said Seeling was filling in for a vacationing engineer the night of the Jan. 6 accident. "I told him to be safe," McLaughlin said.

It would become the last of their scores of conversations, personal and professional.

"We’re just going to miss him in Columbia — terribly."


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Posted by wabash1 on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 10:07 AM
cleveunionterm

Use of common sense is not in you stable is it.. I know my territory and if you would understand not every railroad is the same or uses the same switches and or markers. no i dont guess you would. Now in the daytime it would be easier to see a cut of cars rolled out and fouling the main but at nightime you wont see anything. ( until its to late) the next thing is if you think you are going to slow down at every switch or every crossing you will be fired for delaying a train. ( oh yes this is in the trainmasters rules for firing someone) . so at all times you must run at track speed. kinda blows your theory out of the water now dont it. me i am going track speed. regardless. oh and as far as thinking im a hot runner i have and still do the 16 hr day get back out after 8. and do it 75 days straight before a day off .. why do you think you dont see me on here that much. duh. and i know that the first thing out of your mouth is he is fibbing the 12 hr of service law blah blah blah ...... it says i wont preform duty after 12 hrs it says nothing at all about being on duty. and its been as high as 18hrs on duty. with up to 10 hours off before getting called back out. and as far as the big four they are no longer in buisness now are they......

The thing is why are people making a big deal of this because cars crash everyday trucks a little less . but when planes started falling from the sky people ran around thinking the world was ending then things got better then for the most part amtrak was keeping a schedual of putting one in somebodies back yard on a regular basis. then that got better we have a good record but accidents do happen.

The tapes will show when the train was put in emergency then how far it traveled from there . at that point they can measure back from the resting point of the engine to see where the emegency applacation was done. as far as signals go there is a signal made for dark territory for switches and is not to exspensive and is used on the old southern railroad its called a non automatic block signal.

LC

I thought you worked for the ns?? dont give them ideas like that they alread put derails at the top of hills so no car can roll up hill and out on to the main line.
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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:09 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Valleyline

After reading all of the above it seems to me that we're extremely fortunate that there haven't been more accidents like this. I'll bet the FRA will come up with both technological rules (approach signals for switches off the main line) and/or low speed limits in the area of switches located in dark territory. One thing sure, it will cost a lot of money to provide the needed protection. Until all the investigations are complete we shouldn't speculate about who's at fault.


I think you are right about the FRA and big $$ being needed. Every great, tragic wreck results in some new rules and regulations. If I remember right, the max speed limits by signal system type came about after a great, tragic wreck somewhere in the past.

I think the next "dead elephant" out there is the crew fatigue/no PTS issue. Some crew will fall asleep and plow into another train in the middle somewhere with cars piling up on a church or school full of people and we'll be at this again.

It sure would be nice to address some of this stuff now instead of waiting for the next tragic wreck.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by Valleyline on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:01 AM
After reading all of the above it seems to me that we're extremely fortunate that there haven't been more accidents like this. I'll bet the FRA will come up with both technological rules (approach signals for switches off the main line) and/or low speed limits in the area of switches located in dark territory. One thing sure, it will cost a lot of money to provide the needed protection. Until all the investigations are complete we shouldn't speculate about who's at fault.

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