23 17 46 11
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan I'm starting to wonder if for safety reasons, why a cab shouldn't be equiped with gas masks as a cab is equiped with a fire extiguisher in case of a fire; the crew should be able to use a gas mask due to the chemicals that they carry and the possibility of something going wrong. Because the trains carry so much deadly chemicals particularly when some interact with others, I would think that gas masks would be a good idea as to allow a better chance to survive derailments of that nature. Would those ones you find at an army surplus store do?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
QUOTE: Originally posted by piouslion QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan I'm starting to wonder if for safety reasons, why a cab shouldn't be equiped with gas masks as a cab is equiped with a fire extiguisher in case of a fire; the crew should be able to use a gas mask due to the chemicals that they carry and the possibility of something going wrong. Because the trains carry so much deadly chemicals particularly when some interact with others, I would think that gas masks would be a good idea as to allow a better chance to survive derailments of that nature. Would those ones you find at an army surplus store do? Only a slight pressurizing of the cab would do much the same thing with proper filters, unless you are mentioning the need for BT's and the like for those particularly bad times.
QUOTE: Originally posted by markgatech Kevin, I don't really care to see the locomotives or take pictures of them, that would be disrespectful. I am just curious as to what Norfolk Southern is going to do to them; sell them for scrap, torch them, retire them? Also it's a shame to know that someone saved another person's life and the media hasn't mentioned the first thing about it. It's reassuring to know there are some people in this world that would give up there own life to save another. God Bless
QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill That is heroic and he should be so recognized. I appreciate your bringing this to our attention.
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QUOTE: Originally posted by nsrayman NS 192 had NS 6653 & NS 6593 local had NS 4622 QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar I have two things NS 6593 was pulled back in Augusta the other 2 was unknown kevin
QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar I have two things NS 6593 was pulled back in Augusta the other 2 was unknown kevin
QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar I have two things NS 6593 was pulled back in Augusta the other 2 was unknown Ventrue NS should not be sued the crew of the local it's not NS fualt PS [censored][censored] kevin
QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton LC Does that include the 50 that constitute a good start?[}:)][}:)][}:)] Jay
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe Oh how happy businesses would be if they couldn't sued due to the actions of their employees. Oh how sad, I would be because there wouldn't be any lawyers. Gabe
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
Originally posted by wabash1 cleveunionterm Use of common sense is not in you stable is it.. I know my territory and if you would understand not every railroad is the same or uses the same switches and or markers. no i dont guess you would. Now in the daytime it would be easier to see a cut of cars rolled out and fouling the main but at nightime you wont see anything. ( until its to late) the next thing is if you think you are going to slow down at every switch or every crossing you will be fired for delaying a train. ( oh yes this is in the trainmasters rules for firing someone) . so at all times you must run at track speed. kinda blows your theory out of the water now dont it. me i am going track speed. regardless. oh and as far as thinking im a hot runner i have and still do the 16 hr day get back out after 8. and do it 75 days straight before a day off .. why do you think you dont see me on here that much. duh. and i know that the first thing out of your mouth is he is fibbing the 12 hr of service law blah blah blah ...... it says i wont preform duty after 12 hrs it says nothing at all about being on duty. and its been as high as 18hrs on duty. with up to 10 hours off before getting called back out. and as far as the big four they are no longer in buisness now are they...... The thing is why are people making a big deal of this because cars crash everyday trucks a little less . but when planes started falling from the sky people ran around thinking the world was ending then things got better then for the most part amtrak was keeping a schedual of putting one in somebodies back yard on a regular basis. then that got better we have a good record but accidents do happen. The tapes will show when the train was put in emergency then how far it traveled from there . at that point they can measure back from the resting point of the engine to see where the emegency applacation was done. as far as signals go there is a signal made for dark territory for switches and is not to exspensive and is used on the old southern railroad its called a non automatic block signal. LC I thought you worked for the ns?? dont give them ideas like that they alread put derails at the top of hills so no car can roll up hill and out on to the main line. Wabash: If you can't SEE at NIGHT you shouldn't be working on the railroad! Quote: "at night time you wont see anything until its to late" Can you see the signals? Sorry, it doesn't work that way...at night time you need your BEST vision and must be alert at all times! "SAFETY IS JOB ONE" You should consider switching to a NON-operating position if you are not already in one. Recomendation: RFE or TRAINMASTER ride with you on a regular basis. You must be a NEW hire? P.S. You wrote "schedual" what does that word mean? Do you mean schedule? "Gotta Love It" REMEMBER .."SAFETY FIRST" Not walking around thinking you know everything!!! Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago & St. Louis Ry. The "BIG FOUR" CCC&StLRy Reply oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 2:39 PM Mark did you read today's News Times there are talking about the 1997 loaded coal train derailment and they said a disaster in Columbia County is minamal. that's good I live less than a mile and my school is nearby ( well for another 2 years they are blowing it up and putting a new one nearby) kevin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 1:05 PM From BLET Site Two CSX engines collide in Banks (The following story by Russell Sellers appeared on The Messenger website on January 12.) TROY, Ala. -- A CSX freight train collided with a stationary CSX train Tuesday morning around 5 a.m. in the Banks community. The wreck occurred in front of the Banks Primary School. Neither train had any hazardous materials on board and no injuries were reported. Neither train derailed in the accident. The moving train sustained little, if any damage. The stationary train, which was unmanned, was heavily damaged. The main question from the scene centered on a switch that may not have been set correctly. This caused the trains to end up on the same track. "We can't speculate about what may or may not have happened," CSX spokesman Misty Skipper said. "After our investigators determine what happened we'll certainly take all steps necessary to prevent a similar accident in the future. But we really can't give a timetable for the investigation. It will be very thorough." In a safety advisory issued Tuesday, the Federal Railroad Administration expressed concern about other accidents caused when railroad employees didn't return hand-operated track switches to their normal position. "An improperly lined switch invites disaster and can be easily avoided," said Robert Jamison, the FRA's acting chief. There were 23 train accidents caused by improperly aligned switches during the first nine months of 2004, of a total of 2,577 incidents, according to FRA data. The FRA notes that most trains operate on tracks that have electronic signals that indicate when a switch is in a position to divert a train off the main track. However, the FRA also said that 40 percent of railroad tracks in the United States are in territories that do not have signals. In accordance with the safety advisory, inspectors from the FRA will be looking into accidents that were possibly caused by manual switches being out of place. The safety advisory also said some railroads have already changed their rules to require railroad crews to notify the dispatcher of the switch's position. This accident comes one month after another train accident in Pike County. At about 3:15 a.m. on Dec. 11, nine cars of an 89-car train derailed on a couple hundred-yard stretch of track that parallels Alabama Highways 29 and 10, less than a mile outside the Highway 231 overpass. The cars were carrying limestone, pulp paper and wood. "There has still not been a determination in the cause of that derailment," Skipper said. Last week, CSX had another derailment in Lowndes County. No injuries were reported in that incident. However, hazardous materials were aboard that train, although not in the cars that derailed. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 11:29 AM You're kidding, right??? All things were quiet at my terminal when I was off for a few days only to have me return and find my terminal in chaos. A yard crew was spotting some bad order double stack cars and decided to shove them through the car shop. The car shop's clearance is designed for double stacks; however, someone in Evansville or Nashville improperly loaded a container and it was about three inches higher than it should have been. There was a switchman watching the shove, but by the time he noticed, it was too late. The south side of the car shop is gone, large chunks of brick lay everywhere. Then, I was called for second shift yesterday and I heard that a car loaded with soymeal had derailed on the Westville main. So, another accident within two days. I was not suprised to see a Lexus parked in the parking lot when I showed up for work; obviously there was a superintendent here on damage control. Luckily no one has been hurt, I really don't care what we tear up as long as no one gets hurt. Knock on wood................ Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 10:58 AM CSX just had another head on through an open switch in dark territory with a dead train. LC Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 10:56 AM Mourners honor Chris Seeling (The following story by Clif LeBlanc appeared on The State website on January 12.) COLUMBIA, S.C. -- The engineer in Thursday’s fatal Graniteville train wreck was eulogized Tuesday as a good-hearted fellow who had railroading in his blood. Christopher Glenn Seeling, 28, left a circle of remembrance that drew about 150 mourners to Columbia’s First Presbyterian Church, many from his railroad family. As the gathered sang one of his favorite hymns, "Rock of Ages," Seeling’s polished poplar wood casket lay adorned in a spray of red- and peach-colored roses with white carnations. A harpist filled the sanctuary of the 210-year-old church with the comforting tones of Seeling’s favorite instrument. The life of Chris Seeling began in Fort Wayne, Ind., but he had become "a good old Southern boy," his brother Eddie Schmidt, 19, wrote in the funeral bulletin. Seeling, a barrel-chested 6-footer, learned to love hunting and fishing. But his love of the rails was born into him, said Joe Teague, who grew so close to Seeling he considered him family. "Whenever he heard the whistle, his stepdad would haul him over there, about a mile from the house," Teague, a West Columbia contractor who built Seeling a home here, said in an interview. "His fascination with trains was on a bigger scale than most young boys," Teague said. "He wanted the real thing." A family Amtrak vacation trip in 1989 was the final step in setting Seeling onto a career path. He will be buried Friday in Indiana, where his passion was sparked. During Tuesday’s service, the Rev. Neal Mathias recalled Seeling’s final train ride. "Last Thursday morning, lots of things went wrong," Mathias said. "Lots of things came undone." Yet the minister asked the mourners to follow Seeling’s lead by turning to God for guidance and solace. Brian McLaughlin was the first engineer to train Seeling as he prepared to become a Norfolk Southern engineer. McLaughlin said Seeling was filling in for a vacationing engineer the night of the Jan. 6 accident. "I told him to be safe," McLaughlin said. It would become the last of their scores of conversations, personal and professional. "We’re just going to miss him in Columbia — terribly." Reply Edit wabash1 Member sinceApril 2001 From: US 2,849 posts Posted by wabash1 on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 10:07 AM cleveunionterm Use of common sense is not in you stable is it.. I know my territory and if you would understand not every railroad is the same or uses the same switches and or markers. no i dont guess you would. Now in the daytime it would be easier to see a cut of cars rolled out and fouling the main but at nightime you wont see anything. ( until its to late) the next thing is if you think you are going to slow down at every switch or every crossing you will be fired for delaying a train. ( oh yes this is in the trainmasters rules for firing someone) . so at all times you must run at track speed. kinda blows your theory out of the water now dont it. me i am going track speed. regardless. oh and as far as thinking im a hot runner i have and still do the 16 hr day get back out after 8. and do it 75 days straight before a day off .. why do you think you dont see me on here that much. duh. and i know that the first thing out of your mouth is he is fibbing the 12 hr of service law blah blah blah ...... it says i wont preform duty after 12 hrs it says nothing at all about being on duty. and its been as high as 18hrs on duty. with up to 10 hours off before getting called back out. and as far as the big four they are no longer in buisness now are they...... The thing is why are people making a big deal of this because cars crash everyday trucks a little less . but when planes started falling from the sky people ran around thinking the world was ending then things got better then for the most part amtrak was keeping a schedual of putting one in somebodies back yard on a regular basis. then that got better we have a good record but accidents do happen. The tapes will show when the train was put in emergency then how far it traveled from there . at that point they can measure back from the resting point of the engine to see where the emegency applacation was done. as far as signals go there is a signal made for dark territory for switches and is not to exspensive and is used on the old southern railroad its called a non automatic block signal. LC I thought you worked for the ns?? dont give them ideas like that they alread put derails at the top of hills so no car can roll up hill and out on to the main line. Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:09 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Valleyline After reading all of the above it seems to me that we're extremely fortunate that there haven't been more accidents like this. I'll bet the FRA will come up with both technological rules (approach signals for switches off the main line) and/or low speed limits in the area of switches located in dark territory. One thing sure, it will cost a lot of money to provide the needed protection. Until all the investigations are complete we shouldn't speculate about who's at fault. I think you are right about the FRA and big $$ being needed. Every great, tragic wreck results in some new rules and regulations. If I remember right, the max speed limits by signal system type came about after a great, tragic wreck somewhere in the past. I think the next "dead elephant" out there is the crew fatigue/no PTS issue. Some crew will fall asleep and plow into another train in the middle somewhere with cars piling up on a church or school full of people and we'll be at this again. It sure would be nice to address some of this stuff now instead of waiting for the next tragic wreck. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply Valleyline Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: US 71 posts Posted by Valleyline on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:01 AM After reading all of the above it seems to me that we're extremely fortunate that there haven't been more accidents like this. I'll bet the FRA will come up with both technological rules (approach signals for switches off the main line) and/or low speed limits in the area of switches located in dark territory. One thing sure, it will cost a lot of money to provide the needed protection. Until all the investigations are complete we shouldn't speculate about who's at fault. Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 6:56 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan There wasn't a automatic signal to tell if the signal was thrown was there? Maybe a dwarf or something? It is unsignalled a.k.a. "dark" territory. No track circuits, no signals, nothing. Train and switch position information is passed verbally between the train and dispatcher over the radio. There are specific procedures/rules in place to minimize the chance of human error, but the possibility always exists. There is quite a bit of light density "dark" mainline track in the southeast. Signalling is expensive to install and maintain and, up to now, anyway, the benefit has not been felt to be felt to be worth the expense. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply Junctionfan Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: St.Catharines, Ontario 3,770 posts Posted by Junctionfan on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 5:42 AM There wasn't a automatic signal to tell if the signal was thrown was there? Maybe a dwarf or something? Andrew Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:36 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1 QUOTE: Originally posted by CleveUnionTerm What kind of marker did the switch (have/use) to show its alignment at the wreck site? A key to safe railroading is to know your territory and to be alert to all switches therein. Never take switch alignment for granted wherever you run. C.C.C.& St.L. Ry. never take switch alignment for granted. so you are saying that at 55mph i should slow down 1 mile before i get to the switch make sure it is right then go back to notch 8 for 2 miles slow down again until i get to crew change point. ... why dont i just stop and flag all crossing also . FOFLMAO... Wabash, while you're at it how 'bout having cab signals installed and electric locks on all switches off the main?? CC- Have you ever run a train at 40+ mph??? Seeing a switch target at 2:40am from any distance in your headlight/ditchlights is tough enough let alone at that closing speed. The fact that Chris saw the misaligned switch and dumped the train (according to NTSB) is testimony to the fact that he was reasonable alert. Just not enough time to make a difference. LC LC, When you say "dumped the train" do you mean put it in emergency? Do they know how far ahead of the switch the engineer was able to do it? I feel so bad for the crew and town. I read on CNN that the previous crew forgot to realign the switch? Does anyone know if there is any truth to that? Gabe Gabe- Yes, "dumping the train" is placing it in emergency. I don't know exactly where the engineer put it into emergency, only that NTSB reports are confirming (as does the wreckage pile) that the train was put into emergency prior to impact. The NTSB apparently suspects that the crew of the local left the switch open. LC Reply Edit jeaton Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: Rockton, IL 4,821 posts Posted by jeaton on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:20 AM There is something I don't get. I don't like speculating on these things, but... According to reports, the switch was found open for the siding, but locked. Now I haven't seen anything about the work that the local crew was doing, but it seems to me that in almost any circumstance, the open switch would be left unlocked. If the job pulled off the main just before tie up, it seems that the conductor of brakeman would have opened the switch, let the train pass, closed the switch lined for the main and locked. If the train was working on the siding (isn't it an industry lead) for a while before tie up, it also seems that the switch would have been closed and locked. I guess that it is possible that the open switched would be locked just so someone didn't come by and steal the lock, but it just leaves me puzzled. I'll leave it to those of you that walk the rocks to explain the typical drill on this. Jay "We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics Reply CleveUnionTerm Member sinceJune 2004 From: Linndale, O. 9 posts Posted by CleveUnionTerm on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:33 PM Wabash1 use a little "common sense"...you're running 55MPH at nite and you think you own the railroad, but you also know your territory.... there is a (plant with a switch/switches) ahead....you continue to make track speed, but also subconsciously you say "hey maybe the local is still working late? or something could be fouling the main, duh, duh, lets look for the switch target or switch alignment. Not the time to reach down for your next sandwich or check your earrings....and lets say the switch IS against you, and just MAYBE you can "BIG HOLE" it sooner more than later!!! That's the point I am trying to make! If you think you're such a "hot runner" try working a 16 hours day, off 8 hours and back for another 16....day after day. REMEMBER SAFETY FIRST! If you think you need to stop and look at the switch.... you do it, peoples lives depend on it! And you're right, you should slow/stop and flag a crossing if safety conditions dictate. C.C.C.& St.L Ry. *For those born after 1976....there was a railroad at one time called the BIG FOUR (New York Central), I know you've heard of CONRAIL, right? CCC&StLRy Reply oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 4:16 PM that is the truth I forgot who said that and I don't think he had that far to put it in emergancy he probaly saw the other train and put it on emergancy kevin Reply gabe Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Indianapolis, Indiana 2,434 posts Posted by gabe on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:59 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1 QUOTE: Originally posted by CleveUnionTerm What kind of marker did the switch (have/use) to show its alignment at the wreck site? A key to safe railroading is to know your territory and to be alert to all switches therein. Never take switch alignment for granted wherever you run. C.C.C.& St.L. Ry. never take switch alignment for granted. so you are saying that at 55mph i should slow down 1 mile before i get to the switch make sure it is right then go back to notch 8 for 2 miles slow down again until i get to crew change point. ... why dont i just stop and flag all crossing also . FOFLMAO... Wabash, while you're at it how 'bout having cab signals installed and electric locks on all switches off the main?? CC- Have you ever run a train at 40+ mph??? Seeing a switch target at 2:40am from any distance in your headlight/ditchlights is tough enough let alone at that closing speed. The fact that Chris saw the misaligned switch and dumped the train (according to NTSB) is testimony to the fact that he was reasonable alert. Just not enough time to make a difference. LC LC, When you say "dumped the train" do you mean put it in emergency? Do they know how far ahead of the switch the engineer was able to do it? I feel so bad for the crew and town. I read on CNN that the previous crew forgot to realign the switch? Does anyone know if there is any truth to that? Gabe Reply oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 2:35 PM I might find out tonight the Lynx are playing tonight before I go to the Parking area I go check out the yard but Sunday CSX 8373 had 7755 with him kevin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 1:46 PM I don't know oskar. I was driving so wasn't really paying that much attention. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 8:15 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1 QUOTE: Originally posted by CleveUnionTerm What kind of marker did the switch (have/use) to show its alignment at the wreck site? A key to safe railroading is to know your territory and to be alert to all switches therein. Never take switch alignment for granted wherever you run. C.C.C.& St.L. Ry. never take switch alignment for granted. so you are saying that at 55mph i should slow down 1 mile before i get to the switch make sure it is right then go back to notch 8 for 2 miles slow down again until i get to crew change point. ... why dont i just stop and flag all crossing also . FOFLMAO... Wabash, while you're at it how 'bout having cab signals installed and electric locks on all switches off the main?? CC- Have you ever run a train at 40+ mph??? Seeing a switch target at 2:40am from any distance in your headlight/ditchlights is tough enough let alone at that closing speed. The fact that Chris saw the misaligned switch and dumped the train (according to NTSB) is testimony to the fact that he was reasonably alert. Just not enough time to make a difference. LC Reply Edit oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 5:42 AM mark I did not know that. Did the Local have CSX 8373 still running LHF or did it have 2 units CSX 7755 and CSX 8373 kevin Reply wabash1 Member sinceApril 2001 From: US 2,849 posts Posted by wabash1 on Monday, January 10, 2005 10:06 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by CleveUnionTerm What kind of marker did the switch (have/use) to show its alignment at the wreck site? A key to safe railroading is to know your territory and to be alert to all switches therein. Never take switch alignment for granted wherever you run. C.C.C.& St.L. Ry. never take switch alignment for granted. so you are saying that at 55mph i should slow down 1 mile before i get to the switch make sure it is right then go back to notch 8 for 2 miles slow down again until i get to crew change point. ... why dont i just stop and flag all crossing also . Reply ericsp Member sinceMay 2015 5,134 posts Posted by ericsp on Monday, January 10, 2005 7:58 PM Sodium hydroxide is NaOH. "No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld) Reply CleveUnionTerm Member sinceJune 2004 From: Linndale, O. 9 posts Posted by CleveUnionTerm on Monday, January 10, 2005 7:42 PM What kind of marker did the switch (have/use) to show its alignment at the wreck site? A key to safe railroading is to know your territory and to be alert to all switches therein. Never take switch alignment for granted wherever you run. C.C.C.& St.L. Ry. CCC&StLRy Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 10, 2005 7:29 PM Oskar, it is positive train control. Check out the January 2001TRAINS. It mentions the sub using PTC. I figured they did. No signals near the sidings or the mains. I know CSX does some crazy stuff with PTC. I was heading home today and saw a mixed merchandise train train in the Martinez siding and an empty northbound coal train on the other track and a local stopped short. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 10, 2005 7:14 PM I believe it actually did, but I am not certain. They said on the news that they have one tank car patched but have to go and put on another patch on tomorrow on a seperate car I do believe. That's why they are not letting the citizens of Graniteville back into their houses until Wednesday. They have to do that and transload it into some tanker trucks. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 10, 2005 7:11 PM You Railfans should stop guessing and wait for the facts Reply Edit CSXrules4eva Member sinceAugust 2004 From: Louisville, KY 1,345 posts Posted by CSXrules4eva on Monday, January 10, 2005 7:06 PM It's a shame this terrible accident happened. I also understand that sodium hydoxide was carried in one of the chemical cars that was involved w/ the derailment. I don't know if the NaCl2 HO3 leaked as well. I hope it didn't that stuff is dangerous believe it or not. Best wishes to the train crew and victums families. They'll need it. LORD HELP US ALL TO BE ORIGINAL AND NOT CRISPY!!! please? Sarah J.M. Warner conductor CSX Reply oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Monday, January 10, 2005 6:21 PM no I did not read that and I dont think they use a positive control also how many times do you visit Augusta I might visit Greenwood February 18 or March 11 kevin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 10, 2005 5:10 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by markgatech Oskar, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Spartanburg Sub use Positive Train Control? There isn't one signal on the line, I believe the signal goes directly to the crew in the cab. Also, looks like Norfolk Southern is going to pay big for this. Oskar, did you read the Augusta Chronicle, an ad states "Railroad Injuries" "If you or a loved one has been exposed to chlorine gas, or injured by the negligence of the railroad, please call us. We want to help." Sounds to me like somebody wants to make some rain. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 10, 2005 4:42 PM Oskar, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Spartanburg Sub use Positive Train Control? There isn't one signal on the line, I believe the signal goes directly to the crew in the cab. Also, looks like Norfolk Southern is going to pay big for this. Oskar, did you read the Augusta Chronicle, an ad states "Railroad Injuries" "If you or a loved one has been exposed to chlorine gas, or injured by the negligence of the railroad, please call us. We want to help." Reply Edit oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Monday, January 10, 2005 5:26 AM Ventrue CSX in Augusta and parts of south Flordia still uses DTC so CSX still dose it they have done it they pluged the tanker kevin Reply wabash1 Member sinceApril 2001 From: US 2,849 posts Posted by wabash1 on Monday, January 10, 2005 1:25 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by tomubee Wabash 1. You may be right about the responsibilities of the engineer for determining that mainline switch and derail were locked in place for main track movement, but during the forthcoming investigation the local engineer will be asked if he did all that was possible to avoid the incident that occurred. If in the course of that line of questioning he states that he assumed that the ground crew had carried out their responsibities and did double check position of switch and derail, he will again be asked if he did everything possible to protect against such a catastropic event. The engineer and the crew may be totally innocent of any negligence, and the switch may have been opened and locked by saboteurs. (Railroad switch keys are easily obtained at any flea market.) The sorry fact is that if ground crew is found to be negligent, the engineer, as most people who have suffered through an official investigation will attest, will be found to be in some part responsible for the accident. It may not be justice in the true sense of the word, but it will be the railroad's particular justice. My prayers are for all the parties involved. I am not sure where you get your info but i can tell you know if i shove my train back and tie it down and get off my resposibility is done. no matter what is asked of me. Reply Justicar Member sinceMay 2008 77 posts Posted by Justicar on Sunday, January 9, 2005 8:51 PM Does CSX no longer use DTC (Direct Traffic Control)? Soo Line, or CP Rail (depending how long ago), used DTC but now uses TWC. I would guess they've been using TWC for at least 10 years. Reply Junctionfan Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: St.Catharines, Ontario 3,770 posts Posted by Junctionfan on Sunday, January 9, 2005 8:28 PM My deepest regrets for the families of both crews and civilians. 28 is way too young; death belongs to the old where age has naturally taken its course. If he has a family and I sure he does, I wi***o give them my prayers. I hope you are doing well L.C. If you go to the funeral, let the family know that the forum prays for them if it be appropriate. Andrew Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 9, 2005 6:55 PM My heart goes out to all families who have lost loved ones in this tragedy. As an engineer myself, I ran on dark territory at 49 mph with all manner of tonnage/lading behind me. It always crossed my mind how easy it would be for some idiot with an easily attained switch key to cause unbelievable devastation by simply lining a switch. That's the first thought that comes to my mind here. If it is determined the local crew "forgot" to line the switch, or dispatcher error, then it will be interesting to see what changes, in rules or technology, are implemented due to this. It's a guarantee something will be done--as you know, the RR's react to any major incident with rule changes. Rick Reply Edit oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Sunday, January 9, 2005 6:50 PM the switch was the problem of the wreck the switch had no sign of tampering with kevin Reply BaltACD Member sinceMay 2003 From: US 25,292 posts Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, January 9, 2005 6:04 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by RudyRockvilleMD A DC City Council member reintroduced a bill as emergency legislation to either ban or require a permit to ship hazardous materials by rail through Washington, D.C. This bill was prompted by the NS derailment in Graniteville, SC which released Chlorine gas. The D.C. City Council defeated a similar bill recently. Their concern was the CSX freight bypass tracks in Washington, DC pass within a few blocks of the Capito, andl terrorist action might derail a freight train with cars carrying hazardous materials, and release toxic gasses. The most expedient CSX way to bypass DC is to be routed via Cincinnati.....adding at least 500 more miles of Hazmat exposure to the trip and passing through additional Metropolitan areas. Let the politicians deal with politics....the screw that up enough. Never too old to have a happy childhood! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 9, 2005 5:57 PM Wabash 1. You may be right about the responsibilities of the engineer for determining that mainline switch and derail were locked in place for main track movement, but during the forthcoming investigation the local engineer will be asked if he did all that was possible to avoid the incident that occurred. If in the course of that line of questioning he states that he assumed that the ground crew had carried out their responsibities and did double check position of switch and derail, he will again be asked if he did everything possible to protect against such a catastropic event. The engineer and the crew may be totally innocent of any negligence, and the switch may have been opened and locked by saboteurs. (Railroad switch keys are easily obtained at any flea market.) The sorry fact is that if ground crew is found to be negligent, the engineer, as most people who have suffered through an official investigation will attest, will be found to be in some part responsible for the accident. It may not be justice in the true sense of the word, but it will be the railroad's particular justice. My prayers are for all the parties involved. Reply Edit oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Sunday, January 9, 2005 12:57 PM Breaking News the death toll has gone to 9 people they found the body in the mill kevin Reply wabash1 Member sinceApril 2001 From: US 2,849 posts Posted by wabash1 on Sunday, January 9, 2005 11:52 AM i only have one question and several statements so here it goes 1) what in the world is DTC? I know what TC traffic control RC remote control TWC is track warrent control . but DTC must be a csx thing 2) Tomubee you are wrong. it is not the engineers resposibility to ask the condition of the switch. that switch has nothing to do with the engineer. and after the first move the engineer dont haft to ask for a double check on the switch. in short the rule states on switching moves the engineer will ask for ground person to double check the route. and now the addition of the rule is that the ground person will say its double checked and how many switches and derails has been checked. but that is the first move only after that it is not required. As far as parking the local there at that plant this might be the crews on duty point . they might have a office in this plant where they get the paper work for that days work over the territory they have. we have several outlying points on my division where this is common practice. Reply oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Sunday, January 9, 2005 10:33 AM Mark it was 5 that died in November and you should be hearing trains by now a Rail Test Car was testing the rails and delayed the trains kevin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 9, 2005 9:50 AM My sympathy goes out to the families of those who lost their lives at Granitevile, SC. The NS has traditionally been one of the safest operating class one carriers. The engineer on the local that had pulled clear of the main track, by rule is, required to ask the conductor or brakeman on the ground to double check the condition of the mainline switch and derail to make sure that they are lined for safe through train movement. It would be intersting to know whether both the main track switch and derail were left lined for side track, or just the main line switch. If both were lined for movement to siding that could indicate sabotage as opposed to human error on part of ground crew. Reply Edit Justicar Member sinceMay 2008 77 posts Posted by Justicar on Sunday, January 9, 2005 5:38 AM jrw249, Ah, thanks for that. I was actually planning to read my print copy of the Times when I go into work this morning. Given that the switch was lined and locked for the spur track moves the probable cause slightly more toward the local's crew having failed to restore it after they were finished with it or some other "official" person possessing keys, but its not exactly impossible for the public to acquire switch keys. As far as I know local governments do not have the authority to require permits or otherwise control what railroads ship thru their political areas. I am mindful of the extreme danger posed by shipping certain hazardous materials close to densely populated areas and especially near high risk areas like our nation's capital. I suspect that we're on a bit of a time bomb here, no pun intended. The problem is I fear that something catastrophic must happen before anything is actually done about the problem. As I recall the BNSF has some kind of policy now in place to hold trains out of certain designated areas unless the train is expected to travel thru without stopping in certain times where the terror alert level is raised. I have not heard anything about us having a similiar policy. CP St Paul Reply RudyRockvilleMD Member sinceSeptember 2001 From: US 1,015 posts Posted by RudyRockvilleMD on Saturday, January 8, 2005 9:57 PM A DC City Council member reintroduced a bill as emergency legislation to either ban or require a permit to ship hazardous materials by rail through Washington, D.C. This bill was prompted by the NS derailment in Graniteville, SC which released Chlorine gas. The D.C. City Council defeated a similar bill recently. Their concern was the CSX freight bypass tracks in Washington, DC pass within a few blocks of the Capito, andl terrorist action might derail a freight train with cars carrying hazardous materials, and release toxic gasses. Reply jrw249 Member sinceFebruary 2003 From: Pennnsylvania 136 posts Posted by jrw249 on Saturday, January 8, 2005 9:45 PM New York Times article states the switch was lined for the siding and locked into position. It also states the FBI took part of the switch to analize the fingerprints. Reply Justicar Member sinceMay 2008 77 posts Posted by Justicar on Saturday, January 8, 2005 8:35 PM Wabash...I have no knowledge of operations on this line other than what I've read since this accident and no clue what is common practice. From the little video clip online of the NTSB spokewoman it sounds like a local crew with one unit was moving some cars around on this spur track approximately 25 cars long. At some point they went off duty and left the locomotive and 2 cars tied down near the mainline. If a crew member of the local left the switch open and perhaps a different member of the crew reported clear of their track warrant (or DTC block authority, not sure of Method of Operation) then the dispatcher is to assume the crew complied with the rules and the switch is returned to normal mainline position. An authority was then rightfully given to the mainline train and they discovered the switch open too late to avoid collision. Another possibility is that the dispatcher was informed the switch was left open and then he should have instructed the mainline crew to restore the switch to normal position before passing said location. Dispatchers can fail to protect against switches left open. Train crews can also fail to abide by instructions in their authorities. Yet another possibility is that someone besides the local crew lined the switch into the spur track. As for the chances of the switch points picking a flange...it is possible but unlikely. Typically a flange within the train is picked and a derailment follows. Another possibility is that the switch was defective due to it being run thru in the trailing position...another lesser likely culprit. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 8, 2005 7:40 PM CSXNS - I remember what you are talking about. Not too long ago 4 or 5 employees of Avondale Mills lost there life when they tried to beat a train. I doubt it but you never know what people are capable of these days. Reply Edit csxns Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: North Carolina 1,905 posts Posted by csxns on Saturday, January 8, 2005 6:48 PM Not long ago their was a crossing collision near the derailment site could a family member have something to do with it to get back to NS. Russell Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 8, 2005 6:20 PM I appreciate you clearing things up M.W. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 8, 2005 5:39 PM As a Conductor for the CN, I give you my sympath to you for the losses. I dread that this is one of many gruesome reminders that "hurrying will get you hurt." No one has EVER been fired for taking the time to do things safely and following the rules. Watch your back guys... I'm feeling positive that there will be a backlash of "efficiency test failures" and the FRA stepping things up to keep things calm. I'm sure glad I took out EXTRA insurance because of the hazards we railroaders face each day. Reply Edit csxengineer98 Member sinceOctober 2002 From: US 2,358 posts Posted by csxengineer98 on Saturday, January 8, 2005 5:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar I am not 100 percent sure the lead unit will be retired my friend told me that but there was many other units that died but never retired and got the torch like CSX 700 in that unit 3 injures and one death and many other that are still running so I am going to make sure he is not lieing they are going to patch the tanker sometime tonight and it will be OK then hopefully they clear the whole thing up kevin csx #700 did not get the cutting torch for scrap..it was rebuilt and is back in service... csx engineer "I AM the higher source" Keep the wheels on steel Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 8, 2005 5:09 PM From my understanding of DTC territory, the train that derailed could not have entered the block that contained the parked train unless that train had cleared up with the dispatcher. I hate to say it, but it looks like the switch is going to be the main focus of the investigation. I'm just hoping that the misaligned switch, if that's what it is, has nothing to do with the crew. Maybe the switch was picked by a sharp flange??? On CSX in North Carolina a conductor trainee had left a switch lined for a siding in DTC territory that lead to a major derailment. The story of this derailment was posted to make us aware of what can happen when trainees are used as brakemen; they are not to be left out of our sight. I really, really hope the South Carolina incident has nothing to do with this incident, but it kind of echoes what happened. I better just wait for the results to comment more. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 8, 2005 4:23 PM I live less than 30 minutes from Graniteville on the other side of the river in Georgia, so this has been all over the TV. The NTSB spoke at a news conference and stated that the crew of the local were hired back in the 70's so it's not like they didn't know what they were doing. Here's a question for all the engineers out there, why did they leave the train sitting in the siding of the Avondale Mills plant? They couldn't bring it back to Augusta which is about 15 minutes or more away? I live less than a mile from CSX's Spartanburg Subdivision and CSX most always leaves a ballast train sitting in the siding under interstate 20 sometimes for an entire weekend. What is the purpose of leaving trains sitting when they are relatively close to the nearest yard? My prayers go out the families of both crews and my neighbors in South Carolina. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 8, 2005 2:27 PM If somebody is responsible for the open switch, imagine how they are feeling now... Reply Edit oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Saturday, January 8, 2005 12:02 PM that would be a good question for the NTSB kevin Reply wabash1 Member sinceApril 2001 From: US 2,849 posts Posted by wabash1 on Saturday, January 8, 2005 11:21 AM if that engine is operational it will be put back in service it dont matter if someone died . i did learn it was dark teritory so that brings up 3 other questions. the blame naturally and the ivestigation will go on and on. but here are the problems as i see them 1) why did he have a track warrent that allowed him to proceed past a open switch ( os) even rule 99 no flag protection would require the location of that train he hit. 2) did the engineer not abide by the tract warrent( no way of knowing as we dont know what he is running on) 3) the 2nd most important question is why that switch was left open. I can come up with reasons but until the infomation is in i wont accuse anyone of anything. these question are that unless you work under the track warrent system you wont understand why i made the statements. and these are general statements and questions not accusing anyone. I hate it that we lost a brother engineer but this is are chosen field, and the system is not perfect. accidents do happen as much as the ns wants to be the safest railroad accidents will happen ( we dont go have on perposes do we) what i am getting at is rule 99 in some way was broken. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 8, 2005 10:08 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98 QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear As it turns out, I actually do know the Engineer who died. Nice guy and young too. Very sad. R.I.P., brother, R.I.P. LC ouch brother..sorry to hear that..it realy hits home when its someone you know personaly!!!!! csx engineer True. I always feel for anyone who is injured or worse, killed on the railroad. I know what it is to have a serious line of duty injury and near death experience all in one, but someone you know is much worse. Here is a link to todays story about Chris Seeling. http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2782256 Thanks to everyone for your kind wishes, my prayers are with Chris' family now. LC Reply Edit oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Saturday, January 8, 2005 7:54 AM I am not 100 percent sure the lead unit will be retired my friend told me that but there was many other units that died but never retired and got the torch like CSX 700 in that unit 3 injures and one death and many other that are still running so I am going to make sure he is not lieing they are going to patch the tanker sometime tonight and it will be OK then hopefully they clear the whole thing up kevin Reply csxengineer98 Member sinceOctober 2002 From: US 2,358 posts Posted by csxengineer98 on Saturday, January 8, 2005 4:00 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear As it turns out, I actually do know the Engineer who died. Nice guy and young too. Very sad. R.I.P., brother, R.I.P. LC ouch brother..sorry to hear that..it realy hits home when its someone you know personaly!!!!! csx engineer "I AM the higher source" Keep the wheels on steel Reply ericsp Member sinceMay 2015 5,134 posts Posted by ericsp on Saturday, January 8, 2005 1:53 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Brak710101 This is sad to hear... I saw it on the news with some air footage, and the locomotives looked fairly intact, but the cars went accordian style, and piled up. The ground appeared to be covered in hazmat containment cemicals, but i mean, this is clorine gas people... come on... it floats.... My sympathy goes out to the crew and their faimlys.[:(] I think the material on the ground is lading from the hoppers. "No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld) Reply ericsp Member sinceMay 2015 5,134 posts Posted by ericsp on Saturday, January 8, 2005 1:50 AM Firehouse has several articles about the wreck. http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=46&id=38077 http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=46&id=38093 http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=46&id=38096 http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=46&id=38080 "No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld) Reply oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Friday, January 7, 2005 10:17 PM I wonder what there going to do to the crew of the Local to bad the line was in DTC blocks hopefully they switch the switch to a Automatic switch so the engineer can check it before it gets their and the engineer would have not died if he went somewhere safe they said he died of breathing the air. they found a tape and the engineer did put the emergancy brake on the NTSB will look at the Black Box tape that the unit had. Wabash1 I know NS units hav more than 3 didgit numbers I was saying that I don't know the last numbers the 2nd unit looks like 6598 or 6590,6596 one of those numbers and Augusta is thinking of taking away the street line and replace it somewhere else also the train came though Augusta I would be scared if I saw that train before it wrecked Did anyone watch ABC news tonight they had something on Dangerous cargo kevin Reply locomutt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Louisville,Ky. 5,077 posts Posted by locomutt on Friday, January 7, 2005 10:13 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear Oh, and perhaps I should have mentioned it before, but I now know it is public. The NS Engineer was Chris Seeling, he was 28. R.I.P. Chris. LC LC Our thoughts and prayers are with you; And all of Chris' family. Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 10:06 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar ...the lead unit will be retired because of the Death... Now, i hope i don't offend anyone by this question, but is retiring a locomotive that was involved in a fatal incident out of respect, law, or just some other reason ( such as crew feelings of being in the locomotive that someone was killed in)? Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 8:56 PM Limitedclear: As you know in the forum you're not alone - We the members of your public aquaintance can see in your posts that you are one that knows the closeness required in that special world of railroading. From this event we as a forum and the rail community are diminished. May we all come to live better and safer in the time that come after this day. It goes without saying that this forum sends its condolences to Cris Seelings' family as well as to those effected by the events surrounding this tragedy - Roy Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 8:37 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by piouslion QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear Oh, and perhaps I should have mentioned it before, but I now know it is public. The NS Engineer was Chris Seeling, he was 28. R.I.P. Chris. LC Limitedclear: How are you holding up? I'm OK. I'm still kind of shocked actually. I only know a few people in South Carolina. Sad that it had to be one of them. It is always this way. Sadly, the fatalities are usually the last people you'd expect. LC Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 7:53 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear Oh, and perhaps I should have mentioned it before, but I now know it is public. The NS Engineer was Chris Seeling, he was 28. R.I.P. Chris. LC Limitedclear: How are you holding up? Reply Edit willy6 Member sinceJanuary 2003 From: Ridgeville,South Carolina 1,294 posts Posted by willy6 on Friday, January 7, 2005 7:38 PM I live 100 miles from the scene as of 6:21pm EST i listen to a live call in from a rescue worker on talk radio WSC. she reported that the local hospital may be evactuated.There is no wind and the gas is just sitting there. 8 confirmed dead., one was a truck driver sitting at a loading dock at the mill. the dead were as of 1 mile away. NS has set up some kind of hospitailiy tents. they might expand the evacuation up to 5 miles tonight. locals are suffering from breathing problems. local cafes have been donating food to law enforcemant and rescue workers because they had not slept since 3am thursday morning.confirmed open switch to siding hitting one loco and 2 cars.the picture i have from local press looks like centerflow car squashed 3 tank cars.people at decontamination site are told they will have all personal belongings destroyed. i will follow up and let you know. Being old is when you didn't loose it, it's that you just can't remember where you put it. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 5:44 PM Oh, and perhaps I should have mentioned it before, but I now know it is public. The NS Engineer was Chris Seeling, he was 28. R.I.P. Chris. LC Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 5:43 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1 I will not say that you are wrong on the switch. but over in that area i dont think it is dark terittory. meaning if the switch was left lined the engineer would have been running on a restricting signal. if it was dark territory i dont think the speed would have been that high. and ns dont have no 3 didget unit numbers. as far as law suits go it wont be exspensive. and not everyone is going to get paid off. it just dont work that way. I can't say for certain it is dark. If it is, there would be no signals to warn the engineer. As to legal expenses I don't think the NS will get off too cheap. Unlike situations where you have grade crossing incidents or employee injuries where the company can pin some blame on the plaintiff, the NS will have a very difficult time blaming people at their jobs or homes going about their daily lives who were killed or seriously and permanently injured by chlorine gas coming from a railroad tank car in the custody and control of the NS. Further, in such cases (ultrahazardous activities) there is often strict liability imposed, meaning that the plaintiff need not prove any negligence on the part of the NS. Thus, all they need do is show up with their medical bills and charts showing exposure to chlorine and NS will be pulling out the BIG checkbook. Perhaps not everyone will sue, but if you doubt that NS will take responsibility take a look at the news footage of the NS PR guy apologizing to the community on TV. I think they and their insurers will do the right thing. I don't think they have much choice. LC Reply Edit wabash1 Member sinceApril 2001 From: US 2,849 posts Posted by wabash1 on Friday, January 7, 2005 5:25 PM I will not say that you are wrong on the switch. but over in that area i dont think it is dark terittory. meaning if the switch was left lined the engineer would have been running on a restricting signal. if it was dark territory i dont think the speed would have been that high. and ns dont have no 3 didget unit numbers. as far as law suits go it wont be exspensive. and not everyone is going to get paid off. it just dont work that way. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 5:18 PM I have heard what is being said in the media, but, pending the results of the investigation I'll wait to jump to that conclusion. There are a number of possible reasons that the switch could be misaligned. It should be noted that this was part of the NS that is dark so the engineer would not have advance warning by signal of the open switch. I'd like to know if the switch was found lined and locked for the siding. If not vandalism is a possible cause as well. LC Reply Edit garr Member sinceMarch 2004 587 posts Posted by garr on Friday, January 7, 2005 4:57 PM Today's 5 PM news reports in the Atlanta media are stating what blaze posted above-the switch was left lined for the siding. But we all know the media is not always accurate. Jay Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 3:33 PM Nothing definitive yet Gabe. LC Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 3:02 PM A friend of mine works that line so his information is very relieable. From what he told me whoever tied up the train in the siding did not line the switch back for mainline movements. The train went into the siding and collided with the one in the siding. This is very unfortunate, and scary, because in the blink of an eye your entire life can change. I did get a sigh of relief when I got a call from my pal telling me what happened.Very glad to hear he was OK. I thought about those people all day and about their families. I can't begin to comprehend what they are all going through. LOCOMOTIVES, can be replaced but not a HUMAN LIFE. Reply Edit gabe Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Indianapolis, Indiana 2,434 posts Posted by gabe on Friday, January 7, 2005 2:58 PM Do we know what caused it yet? Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 2:54 PM As it turns out, I actually do know the Engineer who died. Nice guy and young too. Very sad. R.I.P., brother, R.I.P. LC Reply Edit oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Friday, January 7, 2005 2:43 PM thank you Gabe here are the Damaged units DO NOT TELL THESE UNIT # TO PEOPLE THIER IS A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT IS REALLY SAD ABOUT THE DEATH OF THE ENGINEER AND OTHERS all SD60 663? NS 659? the lead unit will be retired because of the Death kevin Reply gabe Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Indianapolis, Indiana 2,434 posts Posted by gabe on Friday, January 7, 2005 2:12 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Nora QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar I should get a award for this coverage I realize I am a little late here, but I think you need to be a little more circumspect about posting the kind of "news" you've been posting in this thread. Yes, a major train accident is certainly something that would be of interest/concern on this forum, but it doesn't help to be posting rumors or things that have been heard from a friend of a friend, etc. I don't know who or what your sources are but they certainly don't seem entirely accurate. I'm just thinking that the "the conductor's ok...no, he's dead....no, he's ok...no, he's dead...actually, he's alive after all" in particular seems almost flippant and definitely irresponsible. Imagine reading that post if you were a friend or a family member of a conductor who worked in that area. Oh, contraire, I think he would be perfectly suited to report either the existence of weapons of mass destruction or Florida election results. Gabe Reply Nora Member sinceJuly 2003 From: US 386 posts Posted by Nora on Friday, January 7, 2005 1:59 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar I should get a award for this coverage I realize I am a little late here, but I think you need to be a little more circumspect about posting the kind of "news" you've been posting in this thread. Yes, a major train accident is certainly something that would be of interest/concern on this forum, but it doesn't help to be posting rumors or things that have been heard from a friend of a friend, etc. I don't know who or what your sources are but they certainly don't seem entirely accurate. I'm just thinking that the "the conductor's ok...no, he's dead....no, he's ok...no, he's dead...actually, he's alive after all" in particular seems almost flippant and definitely irresponsible. Imagine reading that post if you were a friend or a family member of a conductor who worked in that area. Reply wcfan4ever Member sinceMay 2002 From: Reedsville, WI 557 posts Posted by wcfan4ever on Friday, January 7, 2005 12:23 PM Chlorine is a horable thing to inhale. I work with it almost everyday and I have ended up taking a few whifs before and choked. I guess there is going to be more planning of trains carrying chlorine. Middle, rear of the train? Where do they go...or if they go by rail anymore... Dave Howarth Jr. Livin' On Former CNW Spur From Manitowoc To Appleton In Reedsville, WI - Formerly From The Home of Wisconsin Central's 5,000,000th Carload - Manitowoc Cranes, Manitowoc Ice Machines, Burger Boat Reply tregurtha Member sinceApril 2004 104 posts Posted by tregurtha on Friday, January 7, 2005 8:38 AM This one is getting worse by he minute. Eight people were killed and 240 injured, mostly inhalation injuries from the chlorine gas, according to Fox News. Any idea on the cause? I see a couple of notes blaming a faulty switch. A witness reported hearing "screaching metal," which I assume was the emergency braking. What a tragedy. Ross R. Reply adrianspeeder Member sinceMarch 2002 From: Harrisburg PA / Dover AFB DE 1,482 posts Posted by adrianspeeder on Friday, January 7, 2005 8:21 AM Dang, thats horrible. Cl gas is fudged up stuff that unfortunatly we depend on. Adrianspeeder USAF TSgt C-17 Aircraft Maintenance Flying Crew Chief & Flightline Avionics Craftsman Reply gabe Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Indianapolis, Indiana 2,434 posts Posted by gabe on Friday, January 7, 2005 8:08 AM If the post regarding the fact that this is the third time an accident happened because of the switch in question, oh nelly, hang on to your wallet. Gabe Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 8:06 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe Boy, I know I am stating the obvious, but this is just bad. The crew, the citizens. Someone said a faulty switch was to blame? How is that? Also, suggested that this is the third time it has caused an accident. This isn't going to be a pretty lawsuit. This is just bad. Gabe I would imagine that this will be quite a flood of litigation. With at least eight fatalities (2 FELA?) and over 75 people being treated for chlorine gas exposure I would be very surprised if there weren't several sizable personal injury actions. LC Reply Edit gabe Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Indianapolis, Indiana 2,434 posts Posted by gabe on Friday, January 7, 2005 7:46 AM Boy, I know I am stating the obvious, but this is just bad. The crew, the citizens. Someone said a faulty switch was to blame? How is that? Also, suggested that this is the third time it has caused an accident. This isn't going to be a pretty lawsuit. This is just bad. Gabe Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 5:28 AM Chlorine Gas, AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! I've had nightmares about having a tank of that stuff rupture. Talk about horrible. What a way to die, chocking to death on Chlorine. Reply Edit oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Friday, January 7, 2005 5:17 AM Wabash I thought I saw the NS 3548 unit then the news showed the units from the sky and it was either 2 SD60's or 2SD50's and a GP38-2 highnose well now its ''Damaged nose'' kevin Reply ericsp Member sinceMay 2015 5,134 posts Posted by ericsp on Friday, January 7, 2005 1:26 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear Here's the link to NEWSDAY Article: http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-train-wreck,0,6580557.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines LC This story is the same one from the AP, except the two organization took out different parts. The Firehouse story states the conductor was taken to the hospital for inhalation and his (or possibly her) condition is unknown. http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=46&id=38080 "No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld) Reply ericsp Member sinceMay 2015 5,134 posts Posted by ericsp on Friday, January 7, 2005 1:17 AM I wonder if gas tankcars will now be required to be as close to the middle of the train as possible. "No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld) Reply wabash1 Member sinceApril 2001 From: US 2,849 posts Posted by wabash1 on Thursday, January 6, 2005 10:33 PM ns engine 3548 is not a gp 38 or a sd 50 or 60 it is a 4 axel ge unit. we wreck 2 trains over here also no one killed just lots of stuff screwed up. i have not heard anything yet as far as damages or cause and what traffic is rerouted. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 6, 2005 8:39 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar ...wecked... Missing the R's? [:p][:D] This is sad to hear... I saw it on the news with some air footage, and the locomotives looked fairly intact, but the cars went accordian style, and piled up. The ground appeared to be covered in hazmat containment cemicals, but i mean, this is clorine gas people... come on... it floats.... My sympathy goes out to the crew and their faimlys.[:(] Reply Edit oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Thursday, January 6, 2005 8:07 PM UPDATE: the total of death's is 8 NS is removing 26 of 42 cars from the wreck those cars were still on the track the hazmat team is coming back tommow at 8 A.M. leak is still leaking slower than earlier in the day I will give you more news in the morning or tommow afternoon Mark there was one train but I heared it only once so it's not coming your way kevin Reply oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Thursday, January 6, 2005 5:04 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by markgatech Has CSX ceased operations on the Spartanburg Sub or rerouted traffic for today? I live on the other side of the river and not to far from the subdivision and have not heard the first train today. Normally the line is good for at least a couple of coal trains, a merchandise train, and maybe an intermodal. I think so I only heared at least 2 trains one was in between 7:40 A.M. and 11:00 A.M. I think I am going some where else on Saturday. and those could have been trains that left before the weck because after that it has been Quiet. Conductor is still alive sorry for the confusion kevin Reply oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Thursday, January 6, 2005 4:58 PM also I have just seen the units 2 SD50's or 2 SD60's and a GP38-2 highnose the GP38-2 needed repair work on it's nose the other 2 needed work on it's noses and on on walk ways also ditch lights I saw the first unit top two lights on. the Conductor died earlier in the day I was wrong on the last message kevin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 6, 2005 4:55 PM Has CSX ceased operations on the Spartanburg Sub or rerouted traffic for today? I live on the other side of the river and not to far from the subdivision and have not heard the first train today. Normally the line is good for at least a couple of coal trains, a merchandise train, and maybe an intermodal. Reply Edit csxengineer98 Member sinceOctober 2002 From: US 2,358 posts Posted by csxengineer98 on Thursday, January 6, 2005 3:38 PM damn....04 was a bad year for wrecks and crew deaths...and now here we are the first week into 05 and it looks like we are off to a bad start.... another brother falls in the line of duty..... this is starting to become a weekly deal... and its starting to scare me!!!! csx engineer "I AM the higher source" Keep the wheels on steel Reply oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Thursday, January 6, 2005 3:17 PM conductor is ok not dead the NTSB has came and there going to look at the train I am going to give you any news as it comes I should get a award for this coverage kevin Reply oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Thursday, January 6, 2005 2:17 PM UPDATE: the conductor was killed it was confirmed by my friend the train that wecked was NS 191 kevin Reply oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Thursday, January 6, 2005 2:13 PM I forgot the swich was the problem of the weck NS has had 2 wecks in the 2 past month's kevin Reply oskar Member sinceAugust 2003 1,092 posts Posted by oskar on Thursday, January 6, 2005 2:11 PM UPDATE: a train ran in to another train that was on a siding the conductor was takin to the hospital the engineer died. it units look like 2 highnoses or one is NS 3548?? both NS units the train came from NS Nixon yard to Columbia. the cars are still dropping gas but those people that live in SC look out for damaged units and some might be retired. the death toll is up some dog's were killed with some workers of the plant . PS dose anyone know if there is any plans for the NS on this crash dose anyone know if any trains are going to Augusta by being rerouted I will give you any news as it comes kevin Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 6, 2005 9:25 AM Here's the link to NEWSDAY Article: http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-train-wreck,0,6580557.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines LC Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 6, 2005 8:14 AM Cha Ching!! NS is gonna fork over alot of money for this one. Half a dozen textile mills and 4 schools closed. Lets not forget the countless number of people having to evacuate. Changing train routes. Not gonna be cheap, thats for sure. News Release from Yahoo.! News http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050106/ap_on_re_us/train_wreck Reply Edit 123456 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. 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QUOTE: Originally posted by Valleyline After reading all of the above it seems to me that we're extremely fortunate that there haven't been more accidents like this. I'll bet the FRA will come up with both technological rules (approach signals for switches off the main line) and/or low speed limits in the area of switches located in dark territory. One thing sure, it will cost a lot of money to provide the needed protection. Until all the investigations are complete we shouldn't speculate about who's at fault.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan There wasn't a automatic signal to tell if the signal was thrown was there? Maybe a dwarf or something?
QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1 QUOTE: Originally posted by CleveUnionTerm What kind of marker did the switch (have/use) to show its alignment at the wreck site? A key to safe railroading is to know your territory and to be alert to all switches therein. Never take switch alignment for granted wherever you run. C.C.C.& St.L. Ry. never take switch alignment for granted. so you are saying that at 55mph i should slow down 1 mile before i get to the switch make sure it is right then go back to notch 8 for 2 miles slow down again until i get to crew change point. ... why dont i just stop and flag all crossing also . FOFLMAO... Wabash, while you're at it how 'bout having cab signals installed and electric locks on all switches off the main?? CC- Have you ever run a train at 40+ mph??? Seeing a switch target at 2:40am from any distance in your headlight/ditchlights is tough enough let alone at that closing speed. The fact that Chris saw the misaligned switch and dumped the train (according to NTSB) is testimony to the fact that he was reasonable alert. Just not enough time to make a difference. LC LC, When you say "dumped the train" do you mean put it in emergency? Do they know how far ahead of the switch the engineer was able to do it? I feel so bad for the crew and town. I read on CNN that the previous crew forgot to realign the switch? Does anyone know if there is any truth to that? Gabe
QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1 QUOTE: Originally posted by CleveUnionTerm What kind of marker did the switch (have/use) to show its alignment at the wreck site? A key to safe railroading is to know your territory and to be alert to all switches therein. Never take switch alignment for granted wherever you run. C.C.C.& St.L. Ry. never take switch alignment for granted. so you are saying that at 55mph i should slow down 1 mile before i get to the switch make sure it is right then go back to notch 8 for 2 miles slow down again until i get to crew change point. ... why dont i just stop and flag all crossing also . FOFLMAO... Wabash, while you're at it how 'bout having cab signals installed and electric locks on all switches off the main?? CC- Have you ever run a train at 40+ mph??? Seeing a switch target at 2:40am from any distance in your headlight/ditchlights is tough enough let alone at that closing speed. The fact that Chris saw the misaligned switch and dumped the train (according to NTSB) is testimony to the fact that he was reasonable alert. Just not enough time to make a difference. LC
QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1 QUOTE: Originally posted by CleveUnionTerm What kind of marker did the switch (have/use) to show its alignment at the wreck site? A key to safe railroading is to know your territory and to be alert to all switches therein. Never take switch alignment for granted wherever you run. C.C.C.& St.L. Ry. never take switch alignment for granted. so you are saying that at 55mph i should slow down 1 mile before i get to the switch make sure it is right then go back to notch 8 for 2 miles slow down again until i get to crew change point. ... why dont i just stop and flag all crossing also .
QUOTE: Originally posted by CleveUnionTerm What kind of marker did the switch (have/use) to show its alignment at the wreck site? A key to safe railroading is to know your territory and to be alert to all switches therein. Never take switch alignment for granted wherever you run. C.C.C.& St.L. Ry.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
QUOTE: Originally posted by markgatech Oskar, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Spartanburg Sub use Positive Train Control? There isn't one signal on the line, I believe the signal goes directly to the crew in the cab. Also, looks like Norfolk Southern is going to pay big for this. Oskar, did you read the Augusta Chronicle, an ad states "Railroad Injuries" "If you or a loved one has been exposed to chlorine gas, or injured by the negligence of the railroad, please call us. We want to help."
QUOTE: Originally posted by tomubee Wabash 1. You may be right about the responsibilities of the engineer for determining that mainline switch and derail were locked in place for main track movement, but during the forthcoming investigation the local engineer will be asked if he did all that was possible to avoid the incident that occurred. If in the course of that line of questioning he states that he assumed that the ground crew had carried out their responsibities and did double check position of switch and derail, he will again be asked if he did everything possible to protect against such a catastropic event. The engineer and the crew may be totally innocent of any negligence, and the switch may have been opened and locked by saboteurs. (Railroad switch keys are easily obtained at any flea market.) The sorry fact is that if ground crew is found to be negligent, the engineer, as most people who have suffered through an official investigation will attest, will be found to be in some part responsible for the accident. It may not be justice in the true sense of the word, but it will be the railroad's particular justice. My prayers are for all the parties involved.
QUOTE: Originally posted by RudyRockvilleMD A DC City Council member reintroduced a bill as emergency legislation to either ban or require a permit to ship hazardous materials by rail through Washington, D.C. This bill was prompted by the NS derailment in Graniteville, SC which released Chlorine gas. The D.C. City Council defeated a similar bill recently. Their concern was the CSX freight bypass tracks in Washington, DC pass within a few blocks of the Capito, andl terrorist action might derail a freight train with cars carrying hazardous materials, and release toxic gasses.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Russell
QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar I am not 100 percent sure the lead unit will be retired my friend told me that but there was many other units that died but never retired and got the torch like CSX 700 in that unit 3 injures and one death and many other that are still running so I am going to make sure he is not lieing they are going to patch the tanker sometime tonight and it will be OK then hopefully they clear the whole thing up kevin
QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98 QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear As it turns out, I actually do know the Engineer who died. Nice guy and young too. Very sad. R.I.P., brother, R.I.P. LC ouch brother..sorry to hear that..it realy hits home when its someone you know personaly!!!!! csx engineer
QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear As it turns out, I actually do know the Engineer who died. Nice guy and young too. Very sad. R.I.P., brother, R.I.P. LC
QUOTE: Originally posted by Brak710101 This is sad to hear... I saw it on the news with some air footage, and the locomotives looked fairly intact, but the cars went accordian style, and piled up. The ground appeared to be covered in hazmat containment cemicals, but i mean, this is clorine gas people... come on... it floats.... My sympathy goes out to the crew and their faimlys.[:(]
QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear Oh, and perhaps I should have mentioned it before, but I now know it is public. The NS Engineer was Chris Seeling, he was 28. R.I.P. Chris. LC
Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!!
QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar ...the lead unit will be retired because of the Death...
QUOTE: Originally posted by piouslion QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear Oh, and perhaps I should have mentioned it before, but I now know it is public. The NS Engineer was Chris Seeling, he was 28. R.I.P. Chris. LC Limitedclear: How are you holding up?
QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1 I will not say that you are wrong on the switch. but over in that area i dont think it is dark terittory. meaning if the switch was left lined the engineer would have been running on a restricting signal. if it was dark territory i dont think the speed would have been that high. and ns dont have no 3 didget unit numbers. as far as law suits go it wont be exspensive. and not everyone is going to get paid off. it just dont work that way.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Nora QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar I should get a award for this coverage I realize I am a little late here, but I think you need to be a little more circumspect about posting the kind of "news" you've been posting in this thread. Yes, a major train accident is certainly something that would be of interest/concern on this forum, but it doesn't help to be posting rumors or things that have been heard from a friend of a friend, etc. I don't know who or what your sources are but they certainly don't seem entirely accurate. I'm just thinking that the "the conductor's ok...no, he's dead....no, he's ok...no, he's dead...actually, he's alive after all" in particular seems almost flippant and definitely irresponsible. Imagine reading that post if you were a friend or a family member of a conductor who worked in that area.
QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar I should get a award for this coverage
Dave Howarth Jr. Livin' On Former CNW Spur From Manitowoc To Appleton In Reedsville, WI
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USAF TSgt C-17 Aircraft Maintenance Flying Crew Chief & Flightline Avionics Craftsman
QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe Boy, I know I am stating the obvious, but this is just bad. The crew, the citizens. Someone said a faulty switch was to blame? How is that? Also, suggested that this is the third time it has caused an accident. This isn't going to be a pretty lawsuit. This is just bad. Gabe
QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear Here's the link to NEWSDAY Article: http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-train-wreck,0,6580557.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines LC
QUOTE: Originally posted by oskar ...wecked...
QUOTE: Originally posted by markgatech Has CSX ceased operations on the Spartanburg Sub or rerouted traffic for today? I live on the other side of the river and not to far from the subdivision and have not heard the first train today. Normally the line is good for at least a couple of coal trains, a merchandise train, and maybe an intermodal.
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