A crazy day, but at least it was short!!!

[Anonymous]

Valley,

He's probably the worst in the terminal for overall attitude and work habits. That's a good point you brought about speaking to an official. As I sat there while the other two were screaming at each other I kinda drifted off thinking of all the choices I could make and the consequences of them. The best I could think of was to let them blow off steam as long as no one got hit, which came close. I think there was a unspoken mutual understanding not to involve anyone else and let it go, I know the engineer admitted as much. I was just happy nothing worse came of the whole situation. I'm a very laid back person and I often let people get away with more than they should, but I admit that i do like taking control and speaking my opinion. I'm almost happy it all happened because it made me have to stand up and take control, something I have had trouble doing in the past. By no means do I want to be feared, just someone who means what he says.

[ValleyX]

You get the three step, you release the three step. If the three step is on the entire crew, then it has to be released by the entire crew. NO EXCEPTIONS, NO SHORTCUTS.

If someone dumps the air on the train, they'd better have a good reason, a very explainable reason.

As far as turning someone in, boy, that's a tough one. I'm probably from the old school where you just don't hardly do that, bad as you might want to. I've seen more than one case where, when it was done, it took unexpected directions when the powers-that-be started looking into the entire situation. Since there weren't blows exchanged, I'd probably let it go but I can appreciate how you feel about it.

Sounds like he might be the most miserable individual you have in the terminal, I hope there aren't any others like him.

[Anonymous]

That's too bad to hear, but that's life, we just deal with those situations the best we can (sounds like that's what you did) then move on, tomorrows another day.

Up here we call it three point protection, it's interesting to see all the different names.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

First off,
Your the man...so I would have done what you did, told them to wait till they were off property, but while their on the job, they should try and work and play well with others....[:)]

Second, the brakeman would have been made very aware that I didnt give a hoot how they do it on the locals,,,,myself and only myself can release my red zone (your three step) protection, and I would have informed him next time he tried to do it for me, he could explain "how they do it" to the trainmaster.

About the time he pluged the train would have been about the time his grip hit the rocks, with him a few steps behind.
Thats what trainmasters are for, emergency taxis service.

Ed[:D]

I agree with Ed, particularly on the issue of three step. I won't move unless ALL my trainmen are in the clear and I certainly won't let one release protection for another. We all need to look out for one another. That is what safety is about. There are plenty of canrky "old timers" out there, you need to choose when to stand up to them. You did fine from the sound of things.

LC

[CSXrules4eva]

All in all I think the right decision was made in this situation. The engineer made the right decision in stoping the train, since he was unsure. Better Safe than sorry ya know. The acting conductor made the right decision in breaking up the argument before something like a fist fight happened. That most likely would of jepordized all of their jobs, and it would of put the entire train at risk, since the crew wasn't working together to get up and over the road.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, it is a well known fact that this individual works the way he does. When I was in training I was warned about him. I believe he is somewhat overlooked because he knows the local better than anyone. However, give me or anyone else a few weeks and we wouldn't need him!!!

[espeefoamer]

That brakeman should be reported to both the trainmaster and the union.The railroad doesn't need employees who work dangerously, and the union doesn't want its members getting hurt or killed because one of its members does something stupid.

[Anonymous]

I was just waiting for the trainmaster to come on and ask what was going on, but he had other things to attend to at the time. For me it was a learning experience and I'm just glad nothing negative came out of it (as in somone losing their life or job).

And just a little extra point, I appreciate the responses I have been receiving on this post as well as others. Some members of the forum may feel like I post these experiences to get kudos from other members and that is not the case. All I'm trying to do is relay a personal experience and 1) see if anyone experienced something similar 2) to see if I acted appropriately in conjunction with basic railroading rules. I'm new and I want to learn as much as possible through others experiences and opinions, so keep 'em coming!!!!! [dinner]

[kolechovski]

The experienced/smart engineer was right, the haughty brakeman was an *** and was clearly wrong. You did what you had to, but at least you could have had them reply sooner to the call than leave the guy on the other end wondering why nobody's responding.

[edblysard]

First off,
Your the man...so I would have done what you did, told them to wait till they were off property, but while their on the job, they should try and work and play well with others....[:)]

Second, the brakeman would have been made very aware that I didnt give a hoot how they do it on the locals,,,,myself and only myself can release my red zone (your three step) protection, and I would have informed him next time he tried to do it for me, he could explain "how they do it" to the trainmaster.

About the time he pluged the train would have been about the time his grip hit the rocks, with him a few steps behind.
Thats what trainmasters are for, emergency taxis service.

Ed[:D]

[dharmon]

That situation is found in many professions, just the particulars change as far as the personalities go. I can't see where stopping and clarifying is a bad thing, when the only time constraint is one placed artificially on the crew by one of the members for personal reasons. But it definitely supports an argument against single man crews.

[rrnut282]

What was the point of that, to make you "pay your dues" since you were both on the extra board?

[Anonymous]

Telling the two of them to sit and zip it is the best you can do on a crew like that.

As far as asking permission, just because you don't have to be courteous to the track guys doesn't make it a bad idea. Remember, those guys can and will help you out if you screw up and get on the ground or run thru a switch. You will NEED them. Also, always remember the most basic rule. In case of doubt follow the safe course.

When I have a bit more time I'll share an anecdote. For now, its back to work.

LC

[Anonymous]

Funny you say that Randy, I was thinking about calling for the trainmaster, but I just didn't do it. I regret not taking charge of the situation sooner, I figured they would have just argued it out and it would have been done,but then it escalated. I'm still wondering why that roadway worker in charge tried to give us permission on trackage he did not have authority over. Yes, we probably could have blown by and not stopped, but...... you just never know if someone is on the track, etc. All the brakeman wanted to do was get a quit because it was his short day. He kept complaining how we should have been done in 1/2 an hour. I'm just glad he only has a few years left.

[Randy Stahl]

Older locomotives have removable automatic airbrake handles specificly designed to deal with brake men.
Stopping your little local was fine, I would have tossed the brakeman out at that point, let the trainmaster pick him up.
Randy

[Mookie]

You got Mookie's stamp of approval!

[Anonymous]

Hello all, ready for another bout of rambling? No, well you're getting it anyway!![}:)]

Not too long ago I caught the south local off the conductors extra board. The engineer was also off, so there was an extra board engineer on as well. That left the brakeman as the only regular crew member working. The brakeman is not a pleasant person to be around and he works very dangerously and could get himself killed at any moment. He also has a bad habit of telling engineers how to run. "You're going too slow!" etc, etc. We had a very short day ahead of us. I was hoping that we could make it the few hours without any excitement, but that would be too much to ask. The first incident, which was actually the fuse, ocurred when I was tying onto a track. I had asked for three step and was making the air tie. I came back out from between the engine and car only to have the brakeman say "release three-step." I was stunned and was about to say something, but the engineer beat me to it. Over the radio he rightly announced that is was not his three-step to give up and what was he trying to do was against the rules. The brakeman replies: "this is how we do it on the locals." After the air test of our six cars we climb aboard and head off down the runner track to the junction with the main line. A signal pops up for us and we begin to move when a roadway worker in charge calls us and asks for our engine number. The engineer and myself look at each other and the engineer brings the train to a stop. The limits of the work authority are only on the main track and we were already south of the limits. As the engineer stops the train, the brakeman yells "what are you doing, we don't have to stop, we're getting on the mainline outside his authority. Indeed we were, but Iwe still wanted to make sure why we were being given permission anyway; the limits ended a half-mile north of us. I saw a few men and a truck and all they were doing was setting up the advance warning board. The brakeman continues to berate the engineer and throws his work order in his direction. The engineer says i can stop and will stop if I am uncertain, then the brakeman tells the engineer he doesn't know spit about running engines. Then the brakeman pulls the emergency lever and crosses his arms and just sits there. I couldn't belive the display I was seeing!!!!! The engineer snapped and got up out of his seat and so did the brakeman both screaming at the top of their lungs at each other nose to nose(kinda like a baseball manager and an ump). In the meantime the roadway worker in charge keeps calling us. In the meantime I'm just sitting there passively hating myself for not putting an end to this. Then my engineer says to me that I better leave the cab because things are going to get ugly and I should not see what's about to happen. I had enough at that point. I stood between the two and said I know that the roadway worker in charge is trying to give us permission outside his limits but he's probably doing so because he has men putting up a board and he feels responsible for their safety. I said we were going to appease the man and get "permission." Then I said the both of you will sit down and we'll get our work done and go home; take it to the parking lot when we are finished. On we went and we finished with no more outbursts or anything. As we pulled our engine onto the pit the brakeman got off and I turned to the engineer and said you know if you hit that man you would have been fired, right? He said he knew, but just lost it and even thought about apologizing to the brakeman, and I said for what?

Anyways, I was wondering if our course of action was appropriate in dealing with the work limit situation.