QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1 QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1 QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill No, railroads do not. Neither do fishing vessels, steel mills, coal mines, metal mines, construction firms, logging outfits, drilling rigs, or any similar occupation that requires skills, teamwork, independent decision-making ability, maturity, and risk-management, and is usually conducted in harsh conditions. They expect you to act like an adult. Adults walk away and allow tempers to cool. Only children and criminals think that life should be like the OK Corral. Alan is right. Any train crew member who allows themselves to get provoked into a fight isn't fit for the service. It's way too serious and dangerous a business to treat it like a playground. If someone is doing something dangerous, and doesn't stop, you pull the air. You walk away. You let the trainmaster or RFE sort it out. Thanks Mark for the advice, I needed it badly. Yes, you did. Until you made this comment I hadn't bothered to read your bio. Now that I have I see why your responses reflected a lack of maturity. Now I understand. Good luck in high school... LC Thanks LC I have always welcomed a friendly boost from fellow railfans and railroaders in a non-rail friendly household and community. It's very little supprt from people who just don't understand and know about RR.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1 QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill No, railroads do not. Neither do fishing vessels, steel mills, coal mines, metal mines, construction firms, logging outfits, drilling rigs, or any similar occupation that requires skills, teamwork, independent decision-making ability, maturity, and risk-management, and is usually conducted in harsh conditions. They expect you to act like an adult. Adults walk away and allow tempers to cool. Only children and criminals think that life should be like the OK Corral. Alan is right. Any train crew member who allows themselves to get provoked into a fight isn't fit for the service. It's way too serious and dangerous a business to treat it like a playground. If someone is doing something dangerous, and doesn't stop, you pull the air. You walk away. You let the trainmaster or RFE sort it out. Thanks Mark for the advice, I needed it badly. Yes, you did. Until you made this comment I hadn't bothered to read your bio. Now that I have I see why your responses reflected a lack of maturity. Now I understand. Good luck in high school... LC
QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1 QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill No, railroads do not. Neither do fishing vessels, steel mills, coal mines, metal mines, construction firms, logging outfits, drilling rigs, or any similar occupation that requires skills, teamwork, independent decision-making ability, maturity, and risk-management, and is usually conducted in harsh conditions. They expect you to act like an adult. Adults walk away and allow tempers to cool. Only children and criminals think that life should be like the OK Corral. Alan is right. Any train crew member who allows themselves to get provoked into a fight isn't fit for the service. It's way too serious and dangerous a business to treat it like a playground. If someone is doing something dangerous, and doesn't stop, you pull the air. You walk away. You let the trainmaster or RFE sort it out. Thanks Mark for the advice, I needed it badly.
QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill No, railroads do not. Neither do fishing vessels, steel mills, coal mines, metal mines, construction firms, logging outfits, drilling rigs, or any similar occupation that requires skills, teamwork, independent decision-making ability, maturity, and risk-management, and is usually conducted in harsh conditions. They expect you to act like an adult. Adults walk away and allow tempers to cool. Only children and criminals think that life should be like the OK Corral. Alan is right. Any train crew member who allows themselves to get provoked into a fight isn't fit for the service. It's way too serious and dangerous a business to treat it like a playground. If someone is doing something dangerous, and doesn't stop, you pull the air. You walk away. You let the trainmaster or RFE sort it out.
QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp Nathan and Ed, thanks. The engineer did not say "set and centered", I am sure I would have asked him what this meant. I wonder if the engineer saying "red zone" on this shortline is considered acceptable.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
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QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer That brakeman should be reported to both the trainmaster and the union.The railroad doesn't need employees who work dangerously
QUOTE: Originally posted by arbfbe Sterling1, You are so fired. End of career. If you get into an argument you are suspect. If you get hit by another person even if you did nothing to provoke it, you will be withheld from service pending the investigation. The carrier's position will be that since you decided to stay in the confrontational situation you are as guilty as the person delivering the blow. You might be allowed to return to work after a time but in order to make a point the railroad will probably dismiss the both of you and let the neutral at the NLRB sort it out after 12 - 18 months if you get expedited handling. If you do hit back and strike the other individual after being struck by him, you are gone. No neutral will likely put you back. That is the harsh reality. You hear stories of blows going unpunished but they are rare any more.
QUOTE: Originally posted by n_stephenson LC, Thanks for the previous ancedote. Wow, we don't have anybody threatening the lives of others verbally, but there is one engineer qualified conductor that scares everyone to death. Many people lay off if they get called to work with this person. Recently this "person" was called as an engineer to take a piggy back to Chicago because there were no available engineers. On the return trip the chief road foreman rode back with this person and the word is he called up our road foreman and told him it was the scariest ride of his life. The "person" had no idea what signals to follow, what track they were on half the time, and had to rely on using that little yellow ball on the computer screen to keep speed, and had all their timetables and rule books out in front of them!!! I'm fine with referencing your rule books and timetable to make certain of something, but this person relies on these books the entire trip every time! I'm no engineer, but I believe the lay of the land is a much better indicator as well as trailing tonnage and what you have pulling the train. To say the least the chicago road foreman had a talk with our road foreman, but I don't know if anything will be done. This "person" as a conductor sleeps all the time and when they have to get on the ground they are a lost cause. One time this individual had to pull out of a yard track with 55 cars. The movement was stopped at about 30 cars and then the engineer was told to back up. In the meantime the conductor had thrown the switch underneath the train. Soon enough there were cars on the ground. The reply of the conductor was: "the switch didn't look right, so I threw it." [V] How this person still works for the RR, I don't know. This individual is capable of devastating things due to their own ingnorance or just plain "wacked" state of mind. The terrible thing for those of who are called to work with this individual must make a choice; do I risk working with this individual at great personal danger or the risk of getting time on the street or do I call off sick and risk disciplinary action??? A no win situation.
QUOTE: Originally posted by kolechovski The experienced/smart engineer was right, the haughty brakeman was an *** and was clearly wrong. You did what you had to, but at least you could have had them reply sooner to the call than leave the guy on the other end wondering why nobody's responding.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl Older locomotives have removable automatic airbrake handles specificly designed to deal with brake men. Stopping your little local was fine, I would have tossed the brakeman out at that point, let the trainmaster pick him up. Randy
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Eric, Red Zone, Three step, in between...all mean the same thing when used in this manner. The Red Zone is that area of the end plane of the car body, formerly know as the dead zone, where, if your body is in there, and the car moves, your dead. On my railroad, we use the term red zone instead of three step. When a conductor or switchman calls red zone, he must indentify what job, who he is, and state that he is going in the red zone,(see Nate's exxcellent explaination of what we do in the zone) To this, the engineer must follow the steps mentioned, and announce that he has "set and centered" the controls. No one can piggyback themselves into the zone, each individule must call for his or her own protection, and the engineer must acknowledge each one, and can not move the train until all crew members who called for the zone protection, have cleared themselves. I cant call for, or clear my helper, nor can he do the same for me, period. When clearing, or releasing protection, each crew member must, again, identify what job, who he is, and tell the engineer he is clear. There are hand signals for this also, and lantren signals. Again, because the engineer sees the hand or light signal, and acknowledges it, he can not move the train until he sees each crew member, and gets the clear signal from each one in the same manner they requested protection. If you use hand signals to ask for protection, you have to used hand signals to clear. If you use the radio to request protection, you must use radio to clear, hand signal or light signals, you must make yourself visible to the engineer to clear, so he can be certain everyone is clear. Nothing, and I mean nothing, will scare you like having the car you are lacing the air hoses up on, or adjusting a knuckle on move while your in the zone. I would bet that when Nate was training, the three step protection was the single most emphasized form of self protection he was taught, for good reason. EdQUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp Last summer I got to "ride" along in the cab of a locomotive while they did some switching. I noticed that when the conductor went between the locomotive and car to connect them the engineer called out "red zone" on the radio, I do not remember if the conductor said anything before this. I assumed this meant that the engineer could not see the conductor. Do you think it meant this or that the conductor had three step protection?
QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp Last summer I got to "ride" along in the cab of a locomotive while they did some switching. I noticed that when the conductor went between the locomotive and car to connect them the engineer called out "red zone" on the radio, I do not remember if the conductor said anything before this. I assumed this meant that the engineer could not see the conductor. Do you think it meant this or that the conductor had three step protection?
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
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QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX You get the three step, you release the three step. If the three step is on the entire crew, then it has to be released by the entire crew. NO EXCEPTIONS, NO SHORTCUTS. If someone dumps the air on the train, they'd better have a good reason, a very explainable reason. As far as turning someone in, boy, that's a tough one. I'm probably from the old school where you just don't hardly do that, bad as you might want to. I've seen more than one case where, when it was done, it took unexpected directions when the powers-that-be started looking into the entire situation. Since there weren't blows exchanged, I'd probably let it go but I can appreciate how you feel about it. Sounds like he might be the most miserable individual you have in the terminal, I hope there aren't any others like him.
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