Murphy Siding [ Oh boy! Are you sure you're not viewing this through a pair of rose colored, good old days glasses? I'll bet there has been bad reporting and bad reporters going back to the beginning of newspapers. And yet now, we're all going to hell in a hand basket? I dunno if I buy that.
[ Oh boy! Are you sure you're not viewing this through a pair of rose colored, good old days glasses? I'll bet there has been bad reporting and bad reporters going back to the beginning of newspapers. And yet now, we're all going to hell in a hand basket? I dunno if I buy that.
If intelligence, honesty, real work ethic, fairness, truth, integrity, respect for one's self and for his reader/listener/viewer and for his craft, are attributes which are seen "through a pair of rose colored, good old days glasses" then we are all headed to a horrible end in a world without real information reporting from babbling idiots not working hard so that we are all babbling idiots. Then anybody with a wit of intelligence and a strong urge for power and corruption can take over. I could add a note referring to contemporary politics, etc. here. But truthful, honest, factual reporting is part of our Fist Amendment and guardian of our country. There are no rose colored glasses here, and the good old days comment can direct us back to the words of the Constitution's guarantee of free speech and the right to be informed so as to make intelligent decisions on our own. That's going back the Original Constitution of the US! (Hmmm...never thought I'd say that!) Don't put down the need for access to facts and truth whether it is calling an engineer a conductor, a locomotive and train car or vice versa, or not telling you the truth about the sewer project across town. Your attitude is infuriating to me, not as a railfan, not as a journalist, but as an American!
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henry6 Murphy Siding [ Oh boy! Are you sure you're not viewing this through a pair of rose colored, good old days glasses? I'll bet there has been bad reporting and bad reporters going back to the beginning of newspapers. And yet now, we're all going to hell in a hand basket? I dunno if I buy that. ....... But truthful, honest, factual reporting is part of our Fist Amendment and guardian of our country............
....... But truthful, honest, factual reporting is part of our Fist Amendment and guardian of our country............
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Why is there not a type of ATS timer system on all permanent speed restrictions ? BNSF (ATSF ) has an installation where passenger trains there is an ATS transponder that calls for stop until a certain amount of time passes. Why can not this be a way for PTC to be implemented ?
blue streak 1 Why is there not a type of ATS timer system on all permanent speed restrictions ? BNSF (ATSF ) has an installation where passenger trains there is an ATS transponder that calls for stop until a certain amount of time passes. Why can not this be a way for PTC to be implemented ?
You don't go to the corner store and buy PTC. PTC, when installed will have to work with all the carriers and territories that handle Passengers and/or HAZMAT. The realities of a NJT commuter train operating over the terrain of the Meadowlands and Key Train with 20 or more HAZMAT loads contained in it's 100+ cars of mixed merchandise freight descending a serious mountain grade are two unique operating realities - realities that PTC must be able to handle successfully.
Amtrak and Commuter carriers operate on tracks owned by freight carrier and ALL equipment operating on a territory must all respond to PTC actions - both freight and passenger. Freight carriers operate on tracks owned by dedicated passenger carrier - again ALL equipment operating on the territory must all respond to PTC action.
Interoperatability is a tough nut to design and program and is where a signifigant amount of the efforts in designing and developing PTC are and have been expended. PTC is no ordering a Chinese meal where you pick one from Column A and two from Column B and a desert from Column C.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Murphy Siding henry6 Murphy Siding [ Oh boy! Are you sure you're not viewing this through a pair of rose colored, good old days glasses? I'll bet there has been bad reporting and bad reporters going back to the beginning of newspapers. And yet now, we're all going to hell in a hand basket? I dunno if I buy that. ....... But truthful, honest, factual reporting is part of our Fist Amendment and guardian of our country............ Actually, no. The Constitution guarantees you the right to freedom of speech. saying nothing about truthfulness, honesty or factual reporting. I think what is infuriating you about my freedom of speech, is that you wish the good old days to be high up on a pedestal. I'm suggesting that you only remember them as being better than they really were. Remember Hearst and yellow journalism? How about the gossip reporter from the 50"s? Walter Winchell? If you stop to think about it, 50 years from now, folks are going to be remembering today as the good old days. Scary isn't it?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I don't care what anyone thinks for how they feel about this. As a member of the media I am no longer proud of the way the big corporate investor owners don't care enough to provide the time and tools and proper compensation for good journalists to do their jobs in a most professional manner and provide facts and truth and not just headlines and soundbytes. There is no work ethic or moral aim...just do what the boss says, read off the internet and pass it on without processing for truth or fact. This is not the world of journalism I entered, that I proudly worked in with others who felt the same for companies that supported us. Today, nobody cares...even Schlimm accepts journalism riddled with mistakes and lies as if knowledge is nothing, being lied to is nothing, being wrongly informed is nothing. If he and all others continue with that attitude, all will be nothing.
I was just reading an article which suggested that after the big digital revolution which essentially decimated the ranks of "true reporters," the pendulum is starting to swing the other way. Howevern, instead of working for the print media, the jobs will be found in digital.
Still, it means that real reporters may again start to show their faces and perhaps raise the general intelligence level of reporting back to what it used to be.
Too, the article indicated that regardless of the medium, longer pieces are starting to show up and be very popular, vs the "tweet" and other such snippet methods of disseminating information.
There is hope.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
henry: Your statement that I "accept journalism riddled with mistakes and lies as if knowledge is nothing..." is contrafactual fantasy. In fact, I believe a critical and accurate and free media is vital in a democracy. There are many faults with journalism today, but most of your criticisms on this thread are about relatively minor inaccuracies. You have apparently declied or are unable to give any examples of significant inaccuracies in the reporting by the major league press, such as the NYT. Instead you merely repeat, repeat, repeat the same comment. As to the smaller, local press (what is left of it), the times have changed greatly in the past 10-20 years. Murphy's comment about the reality of journalism in the so-called Golden Age rings far truer. Eg., "1948: Dewey Wins!" Great fact-checking and caring?
I will, however, temper my statements with the fact I see smaller market news media for the most part. But the MNRR Spuyten Duyvil 12/1 reports were rife with ignorance and misinformation...
One of the problems in many markets is that because of time and personnel constraints reporters are not afforded the time to investigate, question, or learn more before presentation and publication...rarely do they have time to rewrite a release. We used to have enough people to call and verify information, to write and rewrite stories for each newscast or edition. Too often today I see, hear, or watch the same newscast repeated from Friday through Monday never so much as a pronoun or verb changed!
For me, it depends on how the reporting is worded.
If it appears to be the reporters words and they are wrong, I blame the reporter/news publisher, if the words are in quotes from some spokesperson, then I blame the spokesperson.
I am seeing way too many "news items" on the web that are really "blogs" by an individual, blathering their opinion, and not "reporting facts". The "news" server on my Android phone is rife with blogs in the guise of "news".
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
henry6 I will, however, temper my statements with the fact I see smaller market news media for the most part. But the MNRR Spuyten Duyvil 12/1 reports were rife with ignorance and misinformation... One of the problems in many markets is that because of time and personnel constraints reporters are not afforded the time to investigate, question, or learn more before presentation and publication...rarely do they have time to rewrite a release. We used to have enough people to call and verify information, to write and rewrite stories for each newscast or edition. Too often today I see, hear, or watch the same newscast repeated from Friday through Monday never so much as a pronoun or verb changed!
Can someone tell me how to pronounce Spyten Duyvil? Spyootan Die-ville?
Murphy Siding Can someone tell me how to pronounce Spyten Duyvil? Spyootan Die-ville?
Hear it for yourself at http://cougar.eb.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?ggspuy01.wav=Spuyten+Duyvil
That would be a classical Dutch pronunciation. Locals may give it their own twist.
RJ Emery near Santa Fe, NM
Have since heard about the engineer falling asleep and not slowing down the train. My FB friend who is retired BNSF engineer said all the horns and whistles won't slow down the train if the engineer doesn't wake up and do what needs to be done. Haven't heard yet about tox screen results and why was he so tired that he fell asleep at a known spot that needed a sharp speed reduction.
My friend and I said maybe a cattle prod under the seat would do the trick. He's concerned about the caliber of engineers working today, he served the old school apprentice of fireman for 3 years plus and now they go to school, spend time in front of a simulator-which is not the same- and end up running the train. That's not to say all schools are bad or many are not being trained properly, but it's not the same as it used to be. He could never have started out as engineer, had to do his time as fireman first. Just like my grandpa doing his time as brakeman before he could become conductor.
Sunnyland Have since heard about the engineer falling asleep and not slowing down the train. My FB friend who is retired BNSF engineer said all the horns and whistles won't slow down the train if the engineer doesn't wake up and do what needs to be done. Haven't heard yet about tox screen results and why was he so tired that he fell asleep at a known spot that needed a sharp speed reduction. My friend and I said maybe a cattle prod under the seat would do the trick. He's concerned about the caliber of engineers working today, he served the old school apprentice of fireman for 3 years plus and now they go to school, spend time in front of a simulator-which is not the same- and end up running the train. That's not to say all schools are bad or many are not being trained properly, but it's not the same as it used to be. He could never have started out as engineer, had to do his time as fireman first. Just like my grandpa doing his time as brakeman before he could become conductor.
The man in question, 46 year old William Rockefeller, has been an engineer with Metro-North for about ten years, earning presently $145,575 a year, according to a NY Times article. As of the accident on December 1, 2013, he has been suspended without pay.
It is doubtful Mr Rockefeller, no relation to the wealthy Rockefellers, will ever drive a locomotive again. He might get a job with some short line railroad, contingent on pending legal action against him, but driving a passenger train is a helluva lot easier than working a freight. In any event, his salad days are over.
Horns and whistles may not stop the train but PTC will. Or a deadman control...not the foot peddle fut the one that requires a touch or other acknowledgement...will.
rjemery, but driving a passenger train is a helluva lot easier than working a freight. In any event, his salad days are over.
Have you done both?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann rjemery, but driving a passenger train is a helluva lot easier than working a freight. In any event, his salad days are over. Have you done both?
On a yard track, I have driven back and forth a K4, GG1, Sharknose, MU, and a yard switcher. I have also made runs with engineers on both passenger and freight trains. Those engineers have told me a lot. Yes, I feel knowledgeable enough to comment on the differences of driving passenger vs freight trains.
Have you driven a mile long unit freight train with multiple locomotives on the point, slugs in the middle and a pusher at the end over the hump of a 1.5 percent grade? I doubt it.
An engineer driving only passenger trains would not have the requisite experience or knowledge to safely handle that kind of routine freight train of today.
rjemeryAn engineer driving only passenger trains would not have the requisite experience or knowledge to safely handle that kind of routine freight train of today.
And how many freight engineers would have the requisite experience or knowledge to safely handle 100 mph+ passenger operations with station stops, multiple speed zones and the like?
I don't think one is "harder" than the other. Just different skill sets. So how about we stop the urination contest?
zugmannJust different skill sets.
Indeed - Our normal "locals" are 3-4 cars. Our Polar Express currently stands at 12. There is a notable difference (well, duh!). Most likely the only 100 car trains I see will be those going by.
On top of that, our conductors expect (nay - need) a stop within a 2-3 foot window at the station so the necessary traps for loading and unloading are on the platform.
Any engineer with the essential skills and enough experience can run pretty much anything. Maybe not today, but once they get a feel for it.
MidlandMike I agree with schlimm, you can't disregard the entire story just because of some misunderstanding of rail jargon. While some large news organizations may have access to industry consultants, you can't expect others to pass on an important news story just because they don't have a railfan on staff.
I agree with schlimm, you can't disregard the entire story just because of some misunderstanding of rail jargon. While some large news organizations may have access to industry consultants, you can't expect others to pass on an important news story just because they don't have a railfan on staff.
At least these reporters aren't as bad as others. There has been several times were a reporter has said something a 5 year old knows is wrong, like when a reporter says "The engineer didn't swerve to avoid the truck stuck on the crossing". On of the best forms of entertainment is human stupidity (as long as no one gets hurt).
I have operated an 0-4-0 steam engine and a 44 ton diesels Up and down a siding with and without cars. I've also had my hand on the throttle and brake of a GP38 with train on a single track. I have ridden in the cabs of NKP 759 at speed with full passenger train; took many rides in the cabs of DL&W MU's, GP7's, RS3's and Baby Trainmasters, EL F's, CR's U Boats, Sandy RIver and Rangley Lakes narrow gauge steamer, NJT cab cars (open door cabs and not inside) and many a NYC subway ride with the motorman opening the door and talking to me, several tourist diesel cab rides, too. None of that makes me feel I am an engineer nor know
how to handle a train. But I do know I understand that and admire and sympathize and empathize with engineers.
Being able to run a locomotive does not make you an engineer. And if all one runs is a single diesel, he is not qualified to operate all other diesels as well as a subway train or a steam locomotive; but neither should he be expected to. Engineers need to be qualified for each machine as well as each foot of track he operates over, and in the type of service..freight or passenger, too. Conductors don't have to be qualified for any of this but they know they must know what its all about, just as engineers have to know about what a conductors duties and needs are. Running a train from the cab or walking the aisles is not a job to be taken likely by others on the railroad, by passengers or other customers, and least of all by those who want to be called railfans.
rjemery Yes, I feel knowledgeable enough to comment on the differences of driving passenger vs freight trains.
Yes, I feel knowledgeable enough to comment on the differences of driving passenger vs freight trains.
If you truly were knowledgeable about the subject, you would not refer to it as "driving".....
An "expensive model collector"
EXCEPT WHEN REFERRING TO BRITISH TRAINS?
Or the lyrics of that great tribute to Casey Jones by the Grateful Dead: "Drivin' that train, ...." (I'll leave the rest blank so as not to imply anything derogatory).
zugmann rjemeryAn engineer driving only passenger trains would not have the requisite experience or knowledge to safely handle that kind of routine freight train of today. And how many freight engineers would have the requisite experience or knowledge to safely handle 100 mph+ passenger operations with station stops, multiple speed zones and the like? I don't think one is "harder" than the other. Just different skill sets. So how about we stop the urination contest?
+1
The one very, very different skill is stopping. No graduated release in the freight world. No need to make super smooth stops and hit a mark within a few feet. But, in the passenger world, there is a lot less concern over safe handling of slack. Stretch braking is still generally allowed...
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
It looks like the cab signal gear that Metro North is using is capable of receiving speed indications from the signal system and displaying them, as well as initiating penaly brake applications. The changes made post-accident may be part of the work underlying the future PTC installation. MN also replaced a fair amount of signal gear post-Sandy, especially in the area near Spuyten Duyvil. The new parts may have made the change easier.
Another good move is posting speed reductions in smaller increments. Reducing from 75 to 60 to 45 to 30 even in short stages is better than diving into a 30MPH speed restriction from 75MPH in one move.
daveklepper EXCEPT WHEN REFERRING TO BRITISH TRAINS?
Yes, if that was the subject we were discussing.....
Of course the enitre NEC has it now, and Sunnyside - Wash DC since before WWII, and almost all electrified LIRR lines.
I had assumed MN had it already, especially after elimination of wayside signals.
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