Roundhouses and Turntables (and transfer tables)

[Semper Vaporo]

Already have this one in the list:

ME

Rockland

44° 6'4.45"N

69° 7'21.67"W

 

 

[castle4073]

Hi there, I do not believe I can add much to what seems your project of a world list, per se.

Forty five years of research led to a friend and I publishing a two volume (plus two Supplements) Directory of every engine shed/depot/roundhouse that served steam locos on public railways in mainland Britain, 1825-1968. We have almost reached 2500 and with Britain's railways totalling 20000 miles at their zenith, a very rough rule of thumb gives one engine "facility" for every 8 miles. Correct me if I am wrong, but did not the USA's railways reach something like 70000 miles at their peak? If so and using the same rule of thumb, that gives a total of "roundhouses" approaching 9000. That is a staggering figure and I wonder if anybody, anywhere, has tried to catalogue them all?

Anyway I am just off for 6 weeks escape from the heat of Cyprus, but in the autumn - sorry, Fall - I'll do what I can to bring you new information.

[puffy]

I remember a 2 stall roundhouse and a turntable on a narrow gauge railroad that ran out of Alicante, Spain. It was about halfway on the route and still contained a steam engine used of special occasions.

[Semper Vaporo]

Added a Meter Gauge turntable in Alicante to the list.  It seems to be associated with a subway, but I cannot tell where it goes once underground (Google Earth does not show the underground portion).  The turntable is along the coast NE of the city and the tracks also run quite a ways up the coast (I didn't follow it very far).  I can see a couple of nice shop buildings, but no "ROUND"house is evident.

I have several other places to look for, sent to me via Private Message and will add this one to the lists when I get those resolved and update the lists on-line.  (But don't go holding yer breath!... I'll get to it, but I don't want anybody to turn blue!  )

 

Thanks. 

[puffy]

When I was there in 1994 it was simply a narrow gauge above ground. The "roundhouse" was only a two-stall affair so it may look like a shop. The roundhouse and turntable are NOT is Alicante as such but about mid-way on the railroad and somewhat at the height of land.

[Semper Vaporo]

I followed the tracks up the coast (NE) all the way to a terminus in Denia, a distance of about 45 miles (as the crow flies... probably 75 rail miles) and find nothing else of interest.  Not to say that I am anywhere near what you are referring to.

Well... I should not say "nothing of interest"... there is an interesting balloon track that runs through a business district south of Benimagrell (some sort of commuter or shopper route) and some tunnels in the more mountainous areas south of Denia where the tracks deviate from hugging the coastline.

At least I have added a turntable to the list!   There is no "pie shaped" building that appears to be serviced by the turntable I found.

This would not be the 1st time that I found something different than what was suggested by someone!

Do you have any other info as to location... maybe some road intersection or a distance and compass direction from some landmark that Google Earth might show.  My not knowing the length of the RR you refer to does not lead me to understanding "midway".

 

Here are the coords of what I found:

Spain

Alicante

38°20'58.42"N

0°28'14.54"W

 

 

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Maybe I mentioned it before, a few years ago (yes I did, on 01-15-2012, near the bottom of page 14 of this thread), but do you have the one in Kingston, Jamaica on your list ?

I believe it is / was at these Lat./ Long. coordinates: N 17 58.248' W 76 48.043'

See also: http://wikimapia.org/6344959/Railway-Turntable-Disused 

Might be pictured in this article: 

"The case of the Canadian Jamaican 4-8-0 - Jamaica Railway Corporation"

by Morgan, David P., from Trains, May 1975, p. 48

 I might have a slide of it from when I was there in Feb. 1977 ?

Might be others elsewhere on that island and in the Caribbean tropics, too.  Certainly appears to have been one at Port Antonio, Jamaica:

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/Jamaica-and-its-railroad-history_8865003?fb_ref=storypage 

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/Port-Antonio-Mayor-stops-old-railway-removal_8807173 

- Paul North. 

[Semper Vaporo]

Added the footprint of the roundhouse in Port Antonio, Jamaica.

Jamaica

Portland

Port Antonio

18°10'46.18"N

76°27'34.28"W

 

And to address a Private Message list:

From: ACY

1.Jewett, Ohio: W&LE RR Site not visible from the air. Looks like a wooded lot. Foundations visible from the ground. West side of town, west of Webster Street. Between Route 35 on the North and railroad on the South.

I cannot find any evidence specific enough to pinpoint the center of the turntable.  I do see in a couple of the historical images where the roundhouse might have been, but they are not in the same place and older images of the same areas don't show the same evidence, leading me to believe what I do see is not the actual location.  If you can pinpoint the location, I would be glad to add it to the list.

 

2.Minerva, Ohio. Former NYC tracks (now OhiRail?) run in a SE direction from town. Track crosses road at the point where Murray Ave. and Arbor Road NW (County Rt. 14) meet Arrow Rd. NW (County Rt. 15). Engine terminal was in the angle formed by the RR and Arrow Road. Site is now an industrial complex, but the old roundhouse was evidently incorporated into the new complex. Its shape can be seen clearly among the angled walls,

Clearly a roundhouse that has been engulfed by add-on buildings around it.  Added to list.

 

3.Information:The turntable at the Auto Train terminal, Lorton VA, was built within the past 15 years or so. It replaces a wye which was removed to make room for expansion of Interstate 95.

Already have one in Lorton and it appears to be at the north end of an Auto Train Terminal so I assume it is the one you refer to.  I wonder what the turntable is used for... Do they have to turn the auto carriers sometimes?

 

4. Clearfield, PA: The curved footprint of the back of the NYC roundhouse backs up against a curve on the south bank of the West Branch of the Susquehanna River, at the NW end of the former NYC yard. This is a short distance east of the 3-span bridge over the river.

Slight evidence of a Roundhouse footprint.  Added to list.

 

5.Canton (Gambrinus), OH:W&LE roundhouse & turntable were north of Gambrinus Yard. Traveling South on Gambrinus Ave, one passes 23rd st., then Timken Steel's track, then crosses the throat of Gambrinus yard on a bridge. The lead to the engine terminal left the main track under the bridge and ran NE. Footprint of roundhouse visible just south of Timken's track.

Already have a Roundhouse footprint in the list just south of the Marathon Canton Refinery.  Seems to be the one you refer to.

 

6.Brewster, Ohio W&LE turntable at engine terminal. Access to the engine terminal is via a private road that runs west from Ohio Rt. 93, just north of the W&LE mainline. Follow the access road, and it points almost straight at the turntable.

Already have a TT in the list that fits your description.

 

7.Hagerstown, MD Turntable is gone. Bridge sold to Jerry Joe Jacobson for use at Age of Steam Roundhouse, Sugarcreek, Ohio.Partial footprint of roundhouse can be seen East of Burhans Blvd., just east of the place where Center Street intersects.

Already have this one (I assume).  From the markings on the ground south of the Roundhouse footprint it appears there may also have been a Transfer Table at one time.  True?

 

8.(South of) Sugarcreek, Ohio. Age of Steam Roundhouse. Smokey Lane Rd. & Seldenright Rd. SW, on the Holmes/Tuscarawas County line. My current map shows the area under construction. Actually, the major construction is completed. Eighteen stall brick roundhouse & shop, served by 115' turntable from Hagerstown, MD. Wood water tank completed. Coal facility to be constructed. Earlier post implied or stated that the turntable is a replica, but this is not the case.

Gorgeous Roundhouse!  Already in the list.  It took a while for Google Earth to show this, since it was recently built, but I added it as soon as the images could confirm the location!

 

9. Carey, Ohio: NYC (Big Four - CCC&StL) track ran NE to SW through town. NYC yard was on SE side, parallel to and on the east side of Vance St (US Rt. 23; OH Rt. 103).Engine terminal was on north end of yard, between Vance and the mainline. This is just north of the point where Vance turns westerly, just north of a small reservoir. Round shape of a turntable pit can be seen, plus footprint of pie-shaped roundhouse. Other foundations also visible.

I had already found a Transfer Table to the east of Canton, but have added this Roundhouse footprint to the list now.  (I really feel like there should have been a Turntable near that Transfer Table, but cannot find any evidence of it.)

 

OH	Carey	40°56'43.22"N	83°23'18.30"W
OH	Minerva	40°43'2.48"N	81° 5'59.43"W
PA	Clearfield	41° 1'54.68"N	78°25'43.13"W

 

So, in the Non-U.S. list: one new one.

And, in the U.S. list: Five already in the list, Three new added to the list and one I cannot confirm.

 

I will update the online files sometime next week.

 

[Semper Vaporo]

castle4073

Hi there, I do not believe I can add much to what seems your project of a world list, per se.

Forty five years of research led to a friend and I publishing a two volume (plus two Supplements) Directory of every engine shed/depot/roundhouse that served steam locos on public railways in mainland Britain, 1825-1968. We have almost reached 2500 and with Britain's railways totalling 20000 miles at their zenith, a very rough rule of thumb gives one engine "facility" for every 8 miles. Correct me if I am wrong, but did not the USA's railways reach something like 70000 miles at their peak? If so and using the same rule of thumb, that gives a total of "roundhouses" approaching 9000. That is a staggering figure and I wonder if anybody, anywhere, has tried to catalogue them all?

Anyway I am just off for 6 weeks escape from the heat of Cyprus, but in the autumn - sorry, Fall - I'll do what I can to bring you new information.

 

Sorry I didn't see your posting until just now... I just got a notification of it being posted!  Trains dot com servers must have been overloaded and are just now catching up!  I don't have an excuse for not seeing it in the thread and requiring the e-mail notification to alert me to it.  I try to respond to everybody's comments.

 

I agree, the number of roundhouses is probably staggering, but as I am only counting "Roundhouses" and a few "engine terminals" that are associated with a turntable or transfer table and not depots or simple engine sheds, I suspect the number will be considerably fewer than one "facility for every 8 miles".  I have been estimating one every 20 miles and often find one by just following a rail line from one Roundhouse to the next town that is 10 to 30 miles away!

 

Still, when I started this I was just looking for examples to be able to build a free-lance model of a Roundhouse for my 1:32 scale backyard RY.  I created the list just so I could go back to the images on Google Earth for reference as I drew my model.  When the list got to several dozens of them I began to contemplate just how many there may have been, and at first I was thinking that only large RR companies would have such facilities in a few major cities. And maybe there might two in very large cities.  It wasn't until much later and after I began to find small facilities in little Podunk towns that I realized  that pretty much EVERY RR, large or small, would have at least one such facility at least at one end of their line and maybe both ends, and if they expanded, maybe one or two along the line at the original termini. And hundreds of towns wanted to be "in on" the RR boom and so there were hundreds of short lines that were incorporated to put these towns "on the map!". Some of those RRs were absorbed by larger ones, and some just dried up (and so did the towns!), but the evidence of the facilities often remain.  And large towns/cities that were serviced by multiple RRs would have at least one Roundhouse (and maybe two) for each RR.

 

I have found many places were I am certain there was a roundhouse at one time, just based on the lay of the land and street arrangement ("Roundhouse Street" is a dead give away to the existence of a facility!), but the area is now a housing project or shopping mall or just a forest (some Google Earth images from the winter time, when the trees are bare, will reveal a round foundation and radial lines of the stalls of a former Roundhouse).  But I am "trying" to limit the list to just those I can "SEE" on Google Earth (And I am not doing very well at that, because of the many nice people that have provided some sort of evidence of the location of a Roundhouse that I feel compelled to include in the list.)

 

By the way... when I got done drawing my model Roundhouse I realized how BIG it was going to be.  I had decided that I didn't want just a 2 or 3 stall facility... I wanted at least a 3/4 round building with a long apron in front of the doors and a big turntable... that led to a building FIFTEEN FEET in diameter!   And that is just too big for me to undertake building.  So the whole effort has been for naught, except for the creation of the list that I have shared here.

 

I am glad to add to the list anything that I can find in images in Google Earth, as well as anything that I can figure a fairly precise location of the center of the turntable from recognizable landmarks in photographs or maps and drawings.  "Bring 'em on!"

 

 

 

 

 

[ACY Tom]

Jewett, OH:  I'm not surprised you didn't find the turntable & roundhouse foundations.  The trees obscure them in overhead views.  But the foundations could be seen from the ground when I traipsed through the area several years ago.  I suspect the same situation might be true at the old Erie yard in Kent, Ohio, but I have not been able to access the location in a long, long time.

Hagerstown:  I think there was a transfer table in the W.M. complex, but I'm not sure.  I live here now, but am not a native.  It was before I got here.

At Lorton, the turntable is sometimes used to turn locomotives.  Traditionally, it is preferred to have the B end of a Superliner sleeper in the lead, with the A end trailing.  So some years the cars have been turned so that this alignment can be maintained in the direction of the most business.  The train tends to be most busy southbound in the fall and northbound in the spring.  Also, the lounge cars were turned this spring when the elimination of the second lounge made it necessary to place the remaining lounge at the opposite end of the diner, so that lounge seats could be used for overflow dining.  There is a wye at Sanford, but as far as I know it is still not usable, so the Lorton turntable is the only place where Auto Train equipment can be turned efficiently.  The Lorton was newly built about a decade ago when widening of Interstate 95 took out the old wye at that location.

[MidlandMike]

castle4073, at its peak in the 1920s, there was 240,000+ miles of railroad lines in the US.  In the days of steam, 100 miles was a "day" for a crew, so there was at least a roundhouse every 100 miles.  Sometimes there were others at junctions or terminals or in helper districts, sometimes just a turntable.  And as SV said, more along shortlines.

[puffy]

Semper vapore, I cannot give you coordinates but can provide some roundhouse locations in upper New England. Concord NH May have been turned into a drive-through diesel facility. South of town Portsmouth, NH There was a turntable and roundhouse last I knew. Plymouth NH There was a 2 stall roundhouse and turntable there in the mid-1950's Occupied by sewage treatment plant. Woodsville NH The large yard south of town is turned into an industrial park. Bartlett NH May never have been a turntable but engine house is still there and being restored. White River Junction VT Large roundhouse and turntable under the interstate 91 bridge. Beechers Falls, VT One stall roundhouse Turntable may be gone. North Stratford NH Turntable north on town west side of tracks No sign of roundhouse probably used for turning snowplows. Lakeport NH One or two stall roundhouse or enginehouse. No turntable remaining.

[Semper Vaporo]

Puffy:

See if the following matches your understanding of where your sites are, or if your knowledge is of sites not in my list already: (The two paragraphs that lead with "**" are the only ones that I cannot find evidence of what you listed... If you can provide more info for those, I could search more.)

I have two sites in Concord, NH.  A turntable is still visible on Google Earth just east of the intersection of Hall St. and Poplar Ave ( 43°11'18.16"N,  71°31'39.78"W).  The location of the other was provided to me as a reference to Historic Aerials that I was able to locate on G.E. as being just south of the "Rainbow Buffet" in a shopping center on Stores St. near the intersection with Hills Ave. ( 43°12'10.50"N,  71°31'56.94"W).  

I have one site in Portsmouth, NH on the south shore of North Mill Pond north of the intersection of Dover St and McDonough St. ( 43° 4'25.06"N,  70°46'10.36"W).  But that is pretty much in the middle of town.  

I have one in Plymouth, NH also provided by triangulation from a Historic Aerials image, near the southern intersection of Main St, and Railroad Square (Railroad Square meets Main St. at 3 places!).  ( 43°45'7.50"N,  71°41'8.70"W).  

** Although I can see what appears to be a long abandoned rail yard south of Woodsville, it is not an industrial park and I cannot see any evidence of a RH or TT.   More info is necessary.

In my list there is a pie shaped building in Bartlett, NH ( 44° 4'36.23"N,  71°17'13.49"W).  

Already in the list is the pie shaped building just east of I-91 in what I have listed as "Hartford, White River Junction, VT ( 43°39'12.77"N,  72°19'45.63"W). And just across the river to the east-southeast, another site listed as Lebanon, NH ( 43°38'41.71"N,  72°18'40.02"W).  

A Turntable is visible in the Historical Imagery of G.E. near the intersection of state 253 and county 1 (the 253 is in an oval and the 1 is in a rectangle and I am assuming the oval designates a state road and the rectangle is a county road) or the intersection just north of Christian Hill and East St, in Beecher Falls, VT.

There is a lonely turntable pit showing in the Historical Imagery of G.E. east of North Stratford, NH along U.S. 3, north of the intersection with Covey Rd ( 44°45'18.80"N,  71°37'4.19"W).  

** I don't have anything I can associate with a site in my list in Lakeport, NH.  I have followed the only rail line I can see, using the Historical Imagery of G.E. from the oldest images available up to the present. Although I can see many buildings that were obviously built to take advantage of being near the RR, I see only one that MIGHT be an engine house.  It is on the east side of Messer St, between Wallace Ct. and Irving St.  The buildings are parallel to Messer St. and at an angle to the RR tracks, but that angle would fit with a possible spur from the track.  I first thought I could see evidence in the space south of the buildings to the RR tracks that might be remnants of where the tracks to the buildings were, but on closer examination with the Street View feature of G.E. are probably shadows of power lines!  (RATZ!)  A sign on one of the buildings seems to have the words "Oil and Coal" on it.  Could that be the buildings you mean? 

 

[MidlandMike]

There was a turntable at Bartlett, NH, but it was removed when they got bigger locos:

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4926

[Semper Vaporo]

Your link says, "Topic does not exist."

I have the pie shaped building in line with Forest St. across the tracks from the intersection with Main St. (U.S. 302).  (As listed in my post, above: 44° 4'36.23"N,  71°17'13.49"W.)

 

[MidlandMike]

I see the link does not work right.  I found it by Google-ing "Bartlett NH turntable".  It was the first result to come up.   On G.E.You can see the wye that replaced the TT by following the track east to where the leg of the wye curves off to the south, and then the other leg curves back to the mainline.

[Semper Vaporo]

I had to really look hard to see that wye!  Not very evident, but it is there! 

[rcdrye]

Keene NH's former B&M (Cheshire) roundhouse has been converted to a shopping enter.  There was also a wye connecting the Ashuelot branch, and the former B&M line from Bennington,  NH was also in the area.

42.9312398,-72.2849024

[Semper Vaporo]

Files have been updated and uploaded to:

Non-U.S.:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/sempervaporo/Trainsdotcom/Non%20US%20Roundhouses%20and%20Turntables.pdf

U.S:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/sempervaporo/Trainsdotcom/US%20Roundhouses%20and%20Turntables.pdf

Excel spreadsheet:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/sempervaporo/Trainsdotcom/Roundhouse%20and%20Turntables.xls

[MidlandMike]

Champion, MI was the end of a MILW branch.  There appears to be a 2 stall radial roundhouse that lines up to a former turntable on the USGS topo map.  No sign of turntable.  Roundhouse repurposed for boat storage.

46°30'43.85"N 87°57'42.12"W

[Semper Vaporo]

Thanks... I'll update the files after I add a few more.

[rcdrye]

From MidlandMike

Champion, MI was the end of a MILW branch.  There appears to be a 2 stall radial roundhouse that lines up to a former turntable on the USGS topo map.  No sign of turntable.  Roundhouse repurposed for boat storage.

46°30'43.85"N 87°57'42.12"W

 

I'm pretty sure that's the former DSS&A roundhouse. There's a pond nearby that looks like part of the former turntable pit.

[MidlandMike]

In The Lake Superior Iron Ore Railroads by Dorin, page 110, there is a photo with the caption "The Milwaukee Road maintains a 4 track yard at Champion for connections with the Soo Line."  On the USGS topo map, this yard is clearly shown at the end of the MILW branch, and their turntable serving this roundhouse is on the far side of the yard from the DSS&A track.  I visited the yard in th early 80s, when the MILW was still there, but I don't recall that much was left.

[Electroliner 1935]

At one time (before the commuter trains all went to Aurora), there was a turntable at Downers Grove. There still is a small yard and last year they removed the interlocking. There is no evidence of it on Google but it would have been at about 41.795231, -88.015441 I will try to find when it was removed and let you know. My guess is in the 30's.

 

 

[Deggesty]

In 1980, I was in the roundhouse in Aurora; I do not remember  what, besides the pit, was still there. I understand that it has been gussied up since, but my nephew, who lives in Bolingbrook, did not ask if I wanted to see it in its new dress any time I have been in the area since.

[rcdrye]

The Downers Grove turntable was removed in the early 1950s.  See First and Fastest Spring 2007 issue.

[Electroliner 1935]

Checking with the Downers Grove IL historical society, I got this response"

the round house was built in 1893 and operations here in DG ceased in 1952 when the “new” diesel operations moved to Aurora. I would think those old building would have been torn down in 1952.

Both the round house and the turntable were at the foot of Oakwood at Warren Ave. on the north side of the tracks. 41.795932, -88.018210

The signal tower was between those buildings and Forest crossing – the base of it is still standing, on the south side of the tracks across from the backyard of the Mayflower Travel Co. building on Warren. 

[Semper Vaporo]

Although there is no evidence in Google Earth, I will still add Downers Grove based on the above posting.

[rcdrye]

Putting the coordinates for Downers Grove in Google Maps and looking at the satellite view puts you in the middle of a circular space with the microwave tower in the center - almost certainly the site of the pit. 

[inch53]

I believe there was a Big 4 turn table and round house on N side of Harrisburg, IL. Had to go back to Googles 1993-94 maps to find any sign of it.

37*45”05.60”N 88*31”47.72”

inch