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Trackside Lounge: 1Q 2011

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Monday, January 17, 2011 12:25 PM

Oh, congrats Dan! That is quite an accomplishment, to be sure! Very nice. As soon as I have a chance, I'm gonna take a trip back over to Flickr and look at them some more. Thanks for sharing! And thanks, too! It looks like we were typing at the same time! 

Stay warm everybody. It was a FRIGID -5F this am.

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Monday, January 17, 2011 12:17 PM

WMNB4THRTL

  OK, zardoz, thanks for the post. However, it brings up two questions for me. 

!. What does 'MU' mean?

2. Will someone please explain "just trainline the trailing locomotives?"

   Thanks. Nance

1) MU means to have the units computers working together in Multiple Unit configuration.  The loco in the lead will control the throttle, braking, etc for the locomotives coupled to it and connected via all the cables/hoses between them.  That's different than DPU or Distributed Power Unit operations where 'slave' units are controlled via radio signal from the lead locomotive.

2) When a loco is in 'trainline' it's prime mover is idled and will not be used for pulling or stopping the train.  It's like a 200 ton car...kinda.

Dan

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Monday, January 17, 2011 12:13 PM

zardoz

Cool! I'll fire up my scanner and see if I can catch it this time.  Although with the way the snow is coming down, I might just wimp out and stay home. Does this train stop at FDL for any reason, or does it go straight thru?

Word I got was no.  I believe the crew was going to continue down on the Waukesha Sub.  Good luck...I just missed it.  Although there may be a second unit of some variety just heading my way from Stevens Point right about now...I'm not sure of what type it is now...

On a personal note I did get my 1000th roster picture.  Sunday morning the leader of M346 that I caught at Van Dyne, WI got that distinction: CN 8920, an EMD SD70M-2.  I have more pictures to process...but that was my goal for the weekend.  If anyone so desires to peruse my pictures they can be found on Flickr by searching for Wide Cab.

Dan

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Monday, January 17, 2011 11:50 AM

  OK, zardoz, thanks for the post. However, it brings up two questions for me. 

!. What does 'MU' mean?

2. Will someone please explain "just trainline the trailing locomotives?"

   Thanks. Nance

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by zardoz on Monday, January 17, 2011 11:39 AM

tree68

Brakes will be one of the bigger challenges for me when I start running as a student engineer this summer.  To top it off, all of our locomotives are vintage, of varying ages.  Thus I will end up with several different brake stands to work with, depending on which locomotive heads up that particular train.

When I was in learning the art of operating a locomotive (back in '74), the main source of problems I encountered was trying to MU the various types of airbrake systems. Very often I would get a consist of mixed equipment, including 26L, 24RL, 6BL, MU2A, etc.  Getting all of them to function together was usually quite an adventure, which would be more or less difficult, depending on which type of valve was the leader. And if for some reason one had to change operating ends on the consist, the likelyhood of all of the brakes working together as desired was even more unlikely without making some type of hose/valve connection change. When confronted with a group of locos that would not play nice together, I would, (usually out of frustration) , depending on the train I was given, just trainline the trailing locomotives.

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Posted by zardoz on Monday, January 17, 2011 11:13 AM

Cool! I'll fire up my scanner and see if I can catch it this time.  Although with the way the snow is coming down, I might just wimp out and stay home. Does this train stop at FDL for any reason, or does it go straight thru?

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Monday, January 17, 2011 11:01 AM

Carl & Jim,

That ore train snuck south about an hour ago!  I was not prepared and only now had a chance to pass the heads up.  U780 is or will be in your neck of the woods shortly.

Dan

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Monday, January 17, 2011 10:18 AM

  Carl, circle the wagons! I can't get the UP page to load properly; I wonder if it's overloaded?! From what I could see, 'we' are behind by 200 votes now!!! HELP!!! We're SO close! Do you think there's a chance they would run both of these top two routes, esp. since it is SO close?! Fingers crossed. N.

Back to studying for me! I heard there's gonna be a test!! ;>)

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, January 17, 2011 8:38 AM

Johnny - This gentleman may be a member of the local NRHS chapter - they'd be the perfect folks to do such a collection.  During the conversation he also mentioned some other "old heads" still alive in the area, from various crafts.  They should be tapped as well.

I live two hours from there (although I am a member of that chapter, mainly because they were early supporters of the resurrection of what is now the Adirondack Scenic), but there are plenty of folks who live in the area who are capable.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Sunday, January 16, 2011 10:29 PM

Thanks, Paul & Larry. I'll keep studying! Sigh

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, January 16, 2011 10:12 PM

tree68

On another note - Attended a local toy train show today at Utica Union Station as a representative of the railroad. 

Amongst the folks who stopped into the office to chat was a gentleman who had been heavily involved in signal systems in the Syracuse/Utica area in the days of the Central.  Learned a few things (including why there was one signal on an otherwise dark line), but really regret that we didn't have a few hours and a tape recorder to do an oral history with the guy - he has a wealth of knowledge about NYC operations "back in the day."

Larry, such an oral history would really be interesting. Do you think you can track him down and get together with him--or sic someone you know in Utica on him? I wonder how well a series of short articles in Trains would go (a la William Moedinger's reminiscences; I copied them all and have them together so I can re-read them from time to time and vicariously enjoy his experiences).

Johnny

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, January 16, 2011 9:53 PM

Wow - lot's going on here.

On engine numbers - When dictating an EC-1 (authority to occupy track), the DS will use the lead engine number.

When communicating with the train, it's usually the symbol, although the lead engine number will occasionally be included (ie, Q123-14 CSXT 1234), although I sometimes get the impression that that's rather like your mother using your first and your middle name...

Since our tourist line doesn't have train symbols, we just use the lead engine.

Brakes will be one of the bigger challenges for me when I start running as a student engineer this summer.  To top it off, all of our locomotives are vintage, of varying ages.  Thus I will end up with several different brake stands to work with, depending on which locomotive heads up that particular train.

One almost has to take the actions of the triple valve (and its successors) as a form of "magic" until one gets a grasp of the operation.  How train brakes work is almost counter-intuitive.

On another note - Attended a local toy train show today at Utica Union Station as a representative of the railroad. 

Amongst the folks who stopped into the office to chat was a gentleman who had been heavily involved in signal systems in the Syracuse/Utica area in the days of the Central.  Learned a few things (including why there was one signal on an otherwise dark line), but really regret that we didn't have a few hours and a tape recorder to do an oral history with the guy - he has a wealth of knowledge about NYC operations "back in the day."

LarryWhistling
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Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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Come ride the rails with me!
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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Sunday, January 16, 2011 8:47 PM

WMNB4THRTL
  Re: 1, so the brake cylinder is not initially charged then? I thought the whole system was charged?! (oh dear.) [snip] 

 

No.  The brake cylinders (only) of a free-rolling train without the air brakes applied should be at 0 lbs. pressure - otherwise, the brakes would be dragging ! (bad scene)  In contrast, the brake line and air reservoir on each car should be at the fully charged air pressure.  Further, in yard and switching operations, the crews are usually required to drain or 'bleed' the entire system on each car of air pressure before moving them.  LIkewise, in some instances the cars' air brake systems have to be 'bled' even if they're being 'spotted' or 'set-out' with the air connected - they're not allowed to be 'parked on air' as the handbrakes have to be applied anyway, so that step ensures that the handbrake is what's holding the car, not the air brake (though this can vary by local RR rule, situation, and custom.)

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Sunday, January 16, 2011 7:33 PM

  No, but thanks for the good info Johnny! I'll check that out for sure. I sort of knew about it but haven't been over/in there yet. Take care. 

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, January 16, 2011 7:26 PM

Thanks, Jeff. I knew that with a train order the engine number was positive identification, so it is with a track warrant; I had not seen as much information on TW operation as I had on TO operation. If you do not know the number of your lead unit, you are in a bad way, and should not have come to work?

Zug, I'm glad to hear you have a regular job, and do not have to wait for the telephone to ring. I have, on occasion, worked a midnight shift (both midnight to seven and seven to seven), and I was glad for the occasions to be very short (breaking a new employee in, or standing in for someone who was sick). I wonder, was being on call much different from chain gang operation? May you soon have the opportunity to work a better job.

Yes, Nancy, railroading is fascinating to many people, including my wife, who simply enjoys traveling by train. The more we learn, the more we want to learn, and I am thankful for the interaction with the various people who contribute to the threads on the Trains forums. By the way, have you found the Classic Trains forum http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/default.aspx?groupid=6 ?

Johnny

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Sunday, January 16, 2011 6:17 PM

  Thanks, Paul. I might be up all night studying then! Surprise

Re: 1, so the brake cylinder is not initially charged then? I thought the whole system was charged?! (oh dear.)

As for 2. I'm still studying. I still have a few hours left before a.m., thankfully!! I'll get back to you on that.

OK, as of now, that UP upper Mid-west route is only behind by 50 votes!! You can vote once per day. I think voting ends 1/17.

Tags: Air Brakes

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Sunday, January 16, 2011 4:52 PM

Hi, Nance -

1.  The triple valve senses the decrease in the trainline's pressure, and then routes the previously stored supply of higher-air pressure from the reservoir to the brake cylinder, where it is increased from its normal 0 PSI pressure.

2.  The loss of air that leads to run-aways is from the many of the following cars' principal and emergency reservoirs, not from the trainline

I sense that a diagram and better explanation would be helpful for you.  So, see former BN and BNSF engineer (now retired) Al Krug's detailed explanations of Freight Train Air Brakes of North America at: http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/brakes.htm 

and these pages at a related site - although mostly in British 'dialect', they've got North American technology about right - at:  http://www.railway-technical.com/air-brakes.shtml 

http://www.railway-technical.com/air-block.gif 

http://www.railway-technical.com/airbra-app.gif 

Also, the interactive graphic demonstrations and scenarios at the Trackmobile website at:

http://www.trackmobile.com/brakes.htm 

Quiz on all that tomorrow morning !  

Carl, yesterday in a vacant industrial plant near here I saw a former 100,000 lb. CAPY RDG flat - No. 9417, I recall - with a BLT date of 1941 and a last journal repack in 1974.  If all goes well with a track restoration project proposal that I've got to get back to now, I may be back there again in a month or two - I'll try to get some photos of it and its brethren. 

- Paul North.

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Sunday, January 16, 2011 3:47 PM

   Hi there; me again. As I'm doing more 'homework,' studying RR info, I've come up against another topic of confusion. Given the nature of this, it is critically important I understand it. ( I thought I knew about this, but maybe not as well as I thought?.Confused)

   AIR BRAKES: 

1. To set brakes, the engineer reduces pressure in the line, causing a valve on each car to draw air from a reservoir, increasing pressure in the car's brake cylinder.(This was copied from within the Trains site, talking about air brakes)

   So, I thought that it was the release of air that caused this whole system to work?! But above it says, "increasing pressure in the car's brake cylinder." Wouldn't that be decreasing pressure...? What am I missing? Embarrassed   and...

2. So, it was explained to me that some problems (accidents?) have been caused over the years bc an engineer overused the air brakes and ended up with no air! They told me that if you keep making applications, several times in a row, you can end up losing your air and obviously, being in critical trouble. How can this be since loss of air makes the brakes work?

   Thanks so much. Nance

 

Tags: Air Brakes

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by blhanel on Sunday, January 16, 2011 3:01 PM

Reporting from Cedar Rapids...

I actually got out and about this afternoon to check on the local scene, as Joanie was sent away on a plane this morning for Melbourne, Florida for the week (lucky her).  It's good to see that you're getting action in Rochelle, Carl, because the UP here is DEAD.  Even the signal lights at Beverly are showing red in both directions.  I did catch a few CRANDIC jobs running around, though, and took a couple of pics with my cell phone.  Maybe I'll download and post them later.

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Sunday, January 16, 2011 2:32 PM

Nancy,
You're welcome!  I was there too, and still am...in lots of ways.

Zug,
There's always something to be said for holding a regular job.  Here's hoping the job treats you as well as possible.

Carl,
Good to know about Wi-Fi...I'll have to test it out later this year (June maybe?).  After a much slower morning than yesterday...I had to call the 'fanning activities for today.  If I check correctly (via BlackBerry) I now sit 3 locos short of my goal.  Hopefully that happens this week!  Off to Shawano via Neenah and then home in time to get to bed.

Signals north...

Dan

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Posted by CShaveRR on Sunday, January 16, 2011 1:53 PM

Greetings from the railroad park in Rochelle, where free wi-fi is now available! 

But so far, unfortunately, when it comes to trains...well, we did see a couple, coming in, but it looks quiet for now.  The line west of here, from Nachusa to Ashton, seems to be pretty well plugged with eastbound stack trains, presumably for Global 3.  We saw three of them stopped in that <20 miles. 

We've found a fantastic place to eat...stopped at The Huddle, in downtown Ashton.  It's about a block away from the tracks, and I took the one side of the one booth from which a view can be obtained.  But we chose it for Sunday dinner, and were not disappointed.  We got out of there for just over 30 bucks, but that included a coffee mug that Pat bought.  Dinners included entree, vegetable, appetizer (cottage cheese or juice), soup or salad, potato, and ice cream for dessert.  Definitely worth driving beyond Rochelle for (it's at the opposite end of Global 3 from Rochelle)!

No action on the Peoria Sub, but we did catch a BNSF train at Edelstein, and saw some of the trackwork at the connection (the culverts say 2008, so that's when the connection was built).

Zug, there are times when even working nights is better than being a slave to the phone.

 

Gotta run...something's coming!

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Sunday, January 16, 2011 1:41 PM

Oh, sorry! It sounded good, but then again, what do I know?! Obviously, not much! Oops But, then again, as you say, at least you have a job, when so many are looking. Take care and stay safe (& warm) out there. Nance

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, January 16, 2011 1:21 PM

I held this last February for awhile.  It is the worst job in the terminal, but hey, for now it is MINE. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Sunday, January 16, 2011 1:03 PM

  Thanks so much Dan, Jeff, Zug, and Carl (hope I didn't forget anybody 'recent'-that I haven't thanked!) As I said, I am very grateful for your helpful answers/info and your stellar patience with my 'rookie' status. This is such a fascinating hobby, but SO MUCH to learn!! (Guess maybe that's one of the many countless reasons it IS so interesting!) Stay warm, Nance

And congrats Zug on your job status! (I hope; it sounded good)

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, January 16, 2011 11:40 AM

OUr track authorities (TAs) don't require the initial of the engine if it's one of our own engines.  Just the number will suffice.  So I will get a TA addressed to 5620 @ here, check box 3, work between here and there on the main track, etc.

Now some dispatchers will add on the engine's reporting marks, although they don't have to. 

 

On a side note, I just got awarded a regular job for now.  3rd shift local with tons of work, but I don't have to be on-call for now.

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by CShaveRR on Sunday, January 16, 2011 8:29 AM

Deggesty

 

 CShaveRR:

 

We know most of the roads between Rochelle and home to follow the tracks closely, and we'll be doing that for as long as the daylight lasts.  Around here in Peoria, we will be guided by the DeLorme atlas for Illinois, so we shouldn't miss too much.

 

Carl, does your car know the roads as well as you do? If so, just put it on autopilot after giving it the course, and devote your attention to watching for trains.Smile

 

Incidentally, Ricki has been told by her home visiting physical therapist that she should be improving in her ability to get around.

Great news about Ricki, Johnny!  Hope we can look forward to seeing you in our neck of the woods again soon!

(I hope I didn't take that wrong, and it isn't the therapist saying. "You should be improving...why aren't you?")

The car doesn't know the roads quite as well as I do...sometimes said roads were taken by bicycle.  The problem with "autopilot" is that the routing might have to change on very short notice should something show up. One neat thing about this line is the long stretches of straight track--you look west from where it crosses the Lincoln Highway in DeKalb, and you can see a good 15 miles to Creston!

We have to pack, but I'd better get my vote in for today first!  Good...we're ahead again this morning!

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Sunday, January 16, 2011 7:22 AM

On CN's Fox River Sub "Track Authority" is issued to each train.  They ID the train as (an example) "CN 9549", give a limited range to work (MP-X to MP-Y), joint authority (working with other trains & MoW crews), and any other restrictions or permissions that may be needed for the train to get it's work done.

This may not be exactly like what's out there but it's what I found after a quick search:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_warrant 

Gonna be a busy day: looking at 6 trains between now and 9 or 10!

EDIT:
I just went through my pictures from yesterday.  987 + 7 = 994 units.  Hopefully today I can get 6 more roster shots to hit 1,000.  Off I go!

Dan

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Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, January 16, 2011 12:26 AM

Deggesty

Nancy, since a locomotive number was a definite identification of a particular locomotive, it was always given, along with the train number when a train order was sent to the conductor and engineer of a particular train. Thus everybody concerned knew exactly which train(s) was/were affected by a particular train order.  I do not know if locomotive numbers are used in issuing track warrants (if nobody responds on this thread, I may post the query on the thread about Train Orders and Track Warrants).

When issuing authorities: track warrant, track and time, track permit, etc the engine number is used.  Most rules also require the use of initials of the engine's owners, even if on home (the owner's) rails.

In years past, the initials wouldn't be used on a home road's engines, but on those of other railroads (foreign line) that were detouring, on trackage rights, or on run thru trains.  (Run thru trains go from one railroad company to another without change in the train's makeup.  Many times now, some or all of the engines will continue on with the train.)

Jeff  

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Saturday, January 15, 2011 10:55 PM

CShaveRR

Locomotive numbers don't have a bearing on the train numbers, though you may find out eventually that certain trains rate certain types of locomotives.  And, armed with a scanner, you'll find that the dispatcher often refers to trains by the number of their lead unit.  And knowing the number of the lead unit makes people with cameras go crazy, especially if it's one they haven't seen before.  Right, Dan?

I wouldn't say crazy but I can tell you that I'm tantalizingly close to hitting 1000 different locomotives in my photo roster.  I picked up at least 5 today including 4 UP C44ACCTE's (or AC4400CWs-to the rest of the world!).  I haven't finished processing my pictures yet beyond the keep/delete stage but...we'll see.  I needed 13 heading in to today.  The "issue" I'm having is that I'm seeing repeated locos...almost 3 or 4 'old' numbers for every 1 'new' one. 

CN's RTC (dispatcher) uses the lead locomotive number to talk with trains most frequently...but the crews will use the ID fairly often...and I'm beginning to recognize patterns of traffic (what cars are on what trains) and the time of day I see the train.  It's all a process that takes time and learning from the right people by being willing to :shut up and listen' (personal experience, lol).

Trackside by 7 AM tomorrow...night!

Dan

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, January 15, 2011 10:22 PM

CShaveRR

We know most of the roads between Rochelle and home to follow the tracks closely, and we'll be doing that for as long as the daylight lasts.  Around here in Peoria, we will be guided by the DeLorme atlas for Illinois, so we shouldn't miss too much.

Carl, does your car know the roads as well as you do? If so, just put it on autopilot after giving it the course, and devote your attention to watching for trains.Smile

Incidentally, Ricki has been told by her home visiting physical therapist that she should be improving in her ability to get around.

Johnny

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