Trackside Lounge: 1Q 2011

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

See this photo (not mine):  http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=352803 

The "ditch lights" are the ones on the front walkway which are not lit.

The "ground lights" are the ones under the cab which are lighting up the sides of the trucks and the ground underneath.  I thought they were also to light up the ground for a trainman who was getting off - to see obstructions, holes, etc. - and to illuminate the steps/ ladder for one who was getting on board. 

- Paul North.   

 

[WMNB4THRTL]

Got ya; many thanks! Have a good night.

[CShaveRR]

Zug's right on the hours of service.  You get the call to work, and are called for a certain time.  Your on-duty time commences right then.

Ditch lights shine out ahead of the train.  Originally (and perhaps still), the two lights were to be aimed so their beams would meet at a certain point ahead of the locomotive, and illuminate the side opposite their origin (possibly to see a little further ahead on curves).  Again, the ground lights are as Zug describes them.  Perhaps someone thought those were for illuminating the ditches. 

[zugmann]

Time starts when you are on duty.  There's times a road crew may not even make it out of the yard in 12 hours.  

 

When 12 hour is up, you are done.  No more performing any kind of company service.  No moving trains, throwing switches, or paperwork.   You be done.  Now in case of an emergency you can break the 12 hours, but the company have a real good reason for ordering you to violate your 12 for the FRA.

Ditch light question: I believe you are thinking of ground lights.  They are there so the hogger can look down at night and see that the engine is actually moving.

[WMNB4THRTL]

Hello. Hope you're all enjoying a good weekend. I've got a bit more to clarify.

1. Re: 'duty hours' or such. I know it's 12 hours on but how do they count that? Is it from when you get to the yard and start doing anything or is it when you pull out of the yard? How do delays or breaks figure in? If you are at the end of 12 hours, you need to stop wherever you are, right?

2. Also, can anyone help me with my ditch lights question?

Thanks; take care.

[Deggesty]

CShaveRR

I'm not sure where on the railroad they're using the slug sets, Johnny.  They are usually a GP40-2 and a slug, and quite often they're the sole power on trains.  The cab (and controls) is necessary so the slug can lead.  If it's properly maintained inside, I'd think you could get a nice, (relatively) quiet ride from them.

Yes, the atmosphere in the cab of a slug would be much quieter than that in the cab of a unit with a prime mover. You reminded me of a part of my trip from Birmingham to Bristol on the Birmingham Special in October of '69--after we left the last scheduled stop before Chattanooga, I asked the flagman (who, along with the other men holding passenger trainman jobs on the AGS, knew me) if it would be possible for me to ride the engine. He took me up, obtained the engineer's okay for me to ride, and went back to the coach; I stayed there until we had passed through the Lookout Mountain tunnel and then walked back. Going through two E's in the dark (it was close to midnight) was an interesting experience.

[zugmann]

We had the 3075/702 set for a couple of months for testing.  Wasn't too bad in the yard (except for being very slippery), and it didn't work out too well for locals.  I think after 25mph the slug stopped loading or something... not good for a 30mph secondary track. 

The 702 was nice and quiet, though. 

 

Plus the whole problem of not being able to split the power when all you had was the mother and slug.

Now the yard switcher uses a SD40-2/6 axle slug (sans cab) set up.  When working, it doesn't pull too bad, but it does have awesome brakes.

 

[rvos1979]

Carl, I have seen the GP40-2/slug sets used in local service in the Trenton-Middletown-Hamilton, OH, area, switching MillerCoors and other industries.  Occasionally one will see an extra GPxx unit if extra power is needed, but it's normally the mother/slug set.  There is a small yard just south of our Trenton shop, and that is in the middle of a wye, so we hear road trains, the Middletown steel trains, EVERYTHING.  Not too hard to get to sleep there, though....

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Carl, Johnny, and anyone else who's interested in CSX slugs -

Go to RailPictures.Net, under "Select Railroad..." pull down to "CSX Transportation (CSXT)", at "Enter Keywords..." enter "slug", then click on "Find the Photos!" - you should get about 332 photos (none are mine) over 22+ pages.  But in just the 15 recent photos on the 1st page, there are several of an SD40-2 "mother" with a cut-down slug at Queensgate and Selkirk; hood-type Road Slugs 2368, 2303, GP40-2's 6968, 6428, and 6453 at Cleveland, Toledo, Greenwich, and Deshler, Ohio, lImeville, KY, and Iona Island, NY; GP30 2254 at Louisville, etc.

Similarly, for "Norfolk Southern", "slug", and "Pennsylvania", you should get about 38 recent photos, of which the following are the most notable:

Our local slug at the Allentown Yard: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=168735

An SD40-2 "mother' with 2 (!) slugs following: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=348278 

"New" 703 and 702 - the smooth sides at the rear of the 702 on the right are very noticeable: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=282884 

- Paul North.    

[blue streak 1]

In my neck of the wodos CSX uses the slugs on work trains and ballast spreading trains. Had 2 south bound work trains past here today and the both had the slug leading. Both trains seemed to be limited to 25 - 30 MPH because of equipment being carried so that may explain the power set up.

When ever moving ballast trains go by they usually have fairly recent power but when they are dropping ballast the work train power usually is the road power.

[WMNB4THRTL]

My goodness, that's great! Thanks, Paul, and the rest of you, too, of course! As you can well imagine, the photos help a lot.

I'm glad to get such good help with all this. I've now gotten some of my 'stuff' taken care of, so I hope to be able to get back to studying a bit more here pretty soon.

[CShaveRR]

I'm not sure where on the railroad they're using the slug sets, Johnny.  They are usually a GP40-2 and a slug, and quite often they're the sole power on trains.  The cab (and controls) is necessary so the slug can lead.  If it's properly maintained inside, I'd think you could get a nice, (relatively) quiet ride from them.

Dan, I'll be looking forward to updates on those ore trains.  I might be able to get to West Chicago tomorrow, if things are promising.

[zugmann]

Paul_D_North_Jr

Carl - I've got to find that photo and/ or the note.  My mind is telling me they were in a pretty snappy livery - similar to Southern's black with white and gold stripes - and that I took the photo looking west from a moving car southbound on I-81 in the vicinity of Hagerstown, MD or Winchester, VA.  Maybe this weekend.

 

Winchester & Western has a pair of slugs.  They have a yellow one that they grafted a cab onto, plus they did have (maybe still do) a black one with no cab.  Both were former Conrail MT4s.Their other engines are black with yellow stripes/lettering.  

[CNW 6000]

Evening folks,

Carl/Jim: several little birdies in "ore country" have informed me that there are two loaded ore trains heading my direction.  The word I got is one will be leaving Stevens Point tonight sometime before 8 or 9 and the other tomorrow morning around sunrise (based on when they were loaded, says my source).  Tonight might be tough to catch...but tomorrow...

I've been busier on vacation than at work it would seem...got a new TV up and working as well as 7.1 surround & DVD player.  Also have several of the new windows on the front porch cased in and ready for blinds.  Crossed a few things from the "honey do" list today.

I'm going to be playing with a Nikon D5000 tomorrow.  Should be interesting to see what I can shoot with that vs the Canon PowerShot A590IS.

[Deggesty]

CShaveRR

CSX has a whole slug o' slugs, Johnny!  They're in the 2200 and 2300 series, and look at first glance like any other Spartan-cab locomotive...until you realize that you're looking at what appears to be a GP30 or GP35.  (Some of these were GP40s as well.).  They have cabs, headlights, ditch lights, and anything needed for operation, but the only fan on the long hood is for the dynamic brakes, and they don't have more than a couple of access doors on the hood.

So, maybe I have seen them--and did not recognize them as being susceptible to salt (I have used salt to kill slugs). I can understand why CSX did not spend the money to remove all resemblance to real locomotives. Are they used all over the system? Of course, I have not lived in CSX territory for going on 37 years (and when I did live there, there was no CSX), and have been in such only once a year for the past four years--and hope to get there this year.

[CShaveRR]

Try dark blue with yellow--yes, in their original paint scheme they had stripes.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Carl - I've got to find that photo and/ or the note.  My mind is telling me they were in a pretty snappy livery - similar to Southern's black with white and gold stripes - and that I took the photo looking west from a moving car southbound on I-81 in the vicinity of Hagerstown, MD or Winchester, VA.  Maybe this weekend.

Nope - that doesn't apply to me at all, though I do enjoy it.  My hands are pretty steady from a lot of time at a drafting board, though my typing is none too good - "fat/ fumble fingers", yes - but no, the only shaking is of my head from side to side in amazement . . .   Sweaty ?  No to that, too - usually a little too cold-blooded for that.  But the 130 years professional experience thing - OK, I'll take him up on that - let's see, that's about 95 more years to go . . .   Spelling - and grammar - speaks for itself - and me, too, of course, as you well know.   

What's really ironic is that I was watching that post and not particularly wanting to get involved with it, but seeing no replies for a while, I decided to check it out and make that suggestion, which you were wise enough to see and kind enough to post the merits of, too.  Funny thing is, though, Robin didn't change her subject line at all, as far as I could see - but despite that, the "Queen City Kid" (!) evidently decided to check out that thread anyway as I hoped and you too anticipated, and then came through beyond any reasonable expectations with not 1, but 2 superb and detailed answers.  I was also gratified to see that my speculation about some involvement or effect of the Cincinnati Southern back then wasn't too far off the mark.   That's all the satisfaction I need - but then that map resource was posted, and I don't think I'd seen that one before, so I'm calling it equal and a day . . .

- Paul North.  

 

[CShaveRR]

CSX has a whole slug o' slugs, Johnny!  They're in the 2200 and 2300 series, and look at first glance like any other Spartan-cab locomotive...until you realize that you're looking at what appears to be a GP30 or GP35.  (Some of these were GP40s as well.).  They have cabs, headlights, ditch lights, and anything needed for operation, but the only fan on the long hood is for the dynamic brakes, and they don't have more than a couple of access doors on the hood.

[Deggesty]

Paul, you are as good as Mike McDonald (Wanswheel) in providing pictures that are pertinent to a discussion topic. In this case, a picture IS worth a thousand words. That you have pictures of cows, calves, mothers, and slugs (and the article about them) together should make it easier for anyone who has never seen a calf or slug to understand the difference. The IHB slug is interesting in that it has a headlight assembly sticking up.

Does any road in the USA still use slugs? I do not recall seeing any in operation except when passing the CN yard in Edmonton, Alberta, while going west on the Canadian. Many are in evidence there. I have a vague memory of seeing a Southern slug, many years ago, at John Sevier Yard?

I knew that there was some concern, in the early days of diesel-electric operation, that the union would require a crew on each unit, but I did not remember that that was the rationale behind cabless units. I also remember seeing a picture of a B unit being moved all by itself, with the hostler visible in the end window.

Thanks again for your contribution.

[CShaveRR]

Paul, the two "herds" (cow and two calves) were bought by the C&O (their numbers 6500 and 6501) for use at their Russell (Kentucky) classification yard.  They were split up in the 1960s and given numbers in the 9500 series (9552-9557, each unit getting a separate number), above the B&O's NW2s.

Not much happening in our neck of the woods--I'm about due for a trip to Elmhurst.  We checked out a new hobby shop in Downers Grove today; it looks like it will be good for HO and N scale, but not so much for one of us 12-inch-to-the-foot guys.  They did carry a supply of Trains and Trains4Kids.  And no Thomas!

I'm curious, Paul--I don't have a very steady hand to begin with, so shakes might be considered normal for me...but do you get shakes and sweaty palms when you expound over here?  I don't, really.  And, we can spell!

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

1.  Link to a photo (not mine) of a classic "cow-n-calf":

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=281027 

Link to a photo (not mine) of a classic "mother-and-slug":

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=241539 

Link to a photo (not mine) of a "Power Booster" that's actually a slug:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=179202

Link to a photo (not mine) of a classic "carbody" or "covered wagon" type "booster" unit:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=252405 

Link to a photo (not mine) of an uncommon Geep or "hood" type "booster" unit:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=106448

"Calfs" are powered - unlike slugs - they are like B-unit boosters that way.  But both calfs and slugs are cut-down for better visibility, as you can see here - no cab on it.  A calf could be called a booster, except that they're not - because they're usually found in 'yards', I suppose, and also because that term seems to be reserved for use when applied to end-cab switchers, not to classic carbody or "covered wagon" type boosters. 

From the article on "Booster Units" here at:

 http://trn.trains.com/Railroad%20Reference/ABCs%20of%20Railroading/2006/05/Booster%20units.aspx

Booster units in yard applications

Not all booster units were intended for road service. Eighty-eight switcher-type boosters were built in the 1940's and early '50's, almost all by EMD. Each of these cabless units was paired with a standard switcher to form an A-B set,* nicknamed "cow and calf."

Several roads use slugs - weighted vehicles whose traction motors receive power from mother units. They may resemble boosters, but are not, because they lack prime movers.  

*Someplace I have a snapshot from the 1960's of a Western Maryland (I think) switcher "cow" with 2 "calfs" - or maybe they were slugs ? - and a treasured note from David P. Morgan explaining that's what they were ! 

That article really could have used some similar photos as these to illustrate it and these terms better . . . .

3.  Yes.  See the article on "AEI Data Tags and Readers" here at:

http://trn.trains.com/Railroad%20Reference/ABCs%20of%20Railroading/2006/05/AEI%20data%20tags%20and%20readers.aspx

And also the page on "AEI Technology" (and other pages) at:

http://www.aeitag.com/aeirfidtec.html 

- Paul North.  

[WMNB4THRTL]

Good morning! My, it's been quiet around here, huh? Thanks, everyone, as always, for the good info.

I have a bit more, on my way out the door.

1. Re: cow/calf units (No, not the ones that say 'moo' either!! ) I'm not quite getting the difference between calf units, slugs, booster, etc.

2. Ditch lights: I think these are on the front, they form a triangle with the headlight? I'm confused bc I was taught, apparently incorrectly, that ours were up underneath (think shining down from each of the two cab seats.) What would those be then?

3. AEI- are these similar to the tag booth readers in autos so you don't have to stop at a toll booth?

4. Anyone know of/have any photos of anti-climber device?

5. APCU- these can no longer be used as a regular loco then, right?

I'll check back in later. Make it a safe day.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Hunting? Rock and Roll? How do we hang the brake rigging?

The remarkable three-piece freight-car truck 1

by Armstrong, John H. 

from Trains August 1983  p. 46

technology  truck  

"COTS" is a standard abbreviation for the periodically required "Clean, Oil, Test, & Stencil" for the brake system - so does "SCT" = "Stencil, Clean, & Test" ?  I doubt it, though . . .

- Paul North.   

[WMNB4THRTL]

Thanks, Paul. Can anybody help me out a bit more on what a brake beam is and what is SCT? I have an idea on the brake beam thing from the photo but I'm still not quite clear.

Edit--I found more on 'brake beam' now, so I think I'm OK, at least sort of. Still can't find SCT.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Paul_D_North_Jr

 

WMNB4THRTL:

  [snip]  1. bad order-- anyone know if filling this out and/or placing it is usually restricted to certain people or a certain craft or can any employee who knows it's broke(n) put one up? [snip] 

 Last June 2010 or so I drove past a boxcar in an unusual location - near a public road on a spur to an industry.  A moment's glance revealed why - the bright orange-red and freshly placed "Bad Order" tag, referencing some problem with the brake equipment.  Fortunately I had my camera, and knowing of the impending 'retirement' of them - and inspired by similar 'preservation of past practices pix' here and elsewhere - I took a couple of photos of the tag and the car.  I'll need to retrieve them, post them to Flickr, and then post that link here, but maybe tonight or tomorrow I'll be able to do that.    

- Paul North.  

Note that on the one side, the "Bad Order" tag was stapled to a wooden board for that kind of thing; on the other side, it was placed into a holder or bracket of the same size.

 

 

 

I also took the attached photo of the offending truck - note the chalk/ "keel" markings to the same effect about the "# 3 & 4 [brake] beams".  But I couldn't discern anything wrong, even with stooping down to see underneath - but then, I'm not a car man, either.  Then again, maybe by then it/ they had been repaired ?  That brakeshoe looks pretty new - but the outer portion of the wheel has a lot of fresh rust (it rained sometime overnight/ earlier that day), so maybe it had been overheated by dragging brakes due to some defect in the brake beam ?  Does the new-looking roller bearing and the fresh rust on it indicate anything or provide a clue ? 

 

 

- Paul North.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

X 3 !  Only on the railroad, and maybe the Army - Thanks for sharing that one !  - Paul. 

[zugmann]

Before I started working at my terminal, there was a legendary conductor.  One of those guys that has 1,000 stories about him.

This guy always kept plenty of shop tags on him and could spot a shop car a mile away (much to the chagrin of some yard officials).  One day he came back from the local industry with every single car shopped (10-15, maybe?). The yardmaster (perhaps thinking this conudctor was trying to get out of putting these cars away) tells the conductor to take his engine and run around all the cars and shove them into the shop tracks.  What did the conductor do?

 

(see below)

 .

 

.

.

.

he shopped the engine! 

[CShaveRR]

WMNB4THRTL

Good evening, folks.

I've got another question. Re: the diagonal stripes often seen on locos, at least older ones, does anyone know- were these required at one point or just a good idea that caught on? Obviously, I know they lead to good visibility.

Thanks.

They are good for visibility, but I don't think they were a requirement.  Too many railroads had paint schemes throughout their history that never employed them.

The only mandated visibility rules I can think of are the ones that require the yellow (or white) reflective striping on the sides of locomotives and freight cars.  I think that was adopted in 2004 or 2005.

[mudchicken]

[quote user="WMNB4THRTL"]

mudchicken:

Kind of amusing that only PDN & I can see the red flags being waived over the re-disovered track news article from yesterday 1/25 ....that is "wrong" on so many different levels.

 

MC, I don't quite understand. Do you mean they wouldn't or shouldn't have a legal right to operate on that track? Does it (or at least potentially) belong to someone else then? I read both versions of the article but I'm still a bit unsure what you mean.

Nance: short answer is yes...and that's only the tip of the iceberg. I don't know if the track in question is from the original 1990 W&LE(N&W)/Connotton Valley lease/sale or the later NS/ex EL lines lease...the whole thing "smells"....(and it points fingers at more than just CCR for ineptitude)

[WMNB4THRTL]

Good evening, folks.

I've got another question. Re: the diagonal stripes often seen on locos, at least older ones, does anyone know- were these required at one point or just a good idea that caught on? Obviously, I know they lead to good visibility.

Thanks.