From the Railroading Glossary (below):
I've seen that term used only on model railroads, where the turnouts are small and there's usually just a single piece of plastic or metal that connects the points and also extends out to one or both sides to attach to a switch machine or switch stand.
But on the prototype/ real railroads, the rods that connect the 2 switch points - only - are commonly called 'Switch Rods" - I see that term is not in the Glossary. They are numbered, starting from the 'point' end of the switch and going back - #1 or "Head Rod", then the 32 or "Back Rod", #3, and so on. (I believe mudchicken referred to them that way in one of his earlier replies above.) The No. 1 rod is usually around 6 to 8 ft. long, so that it will stick out beyond the stock rail a little bit - as well as under it, which also helps to hold the points down; the other rods are usually just to connect the points, and are about 3 to 4 ft. long. They are almost always flat steel bar stock material, about 3/4" to 1" thick x 3" to 5" wide. They are connected to each switch point with L-shaped "switch clip", the lower part of which is sideways-"U"-shaped - often called a "switch jaw" or "jaw clip" so that the switch rod can fit between the 'legs' of the U, where it is held by a bolt or a pin. See these pages for some photo illustrations and labeled drawings:
http://www.akrailroad.com/switch-components
http://www.lbfoster.com/uploadedFiles/Asset_Images/Switches.pdf
Anyway, to connect a switch rod to a switch stand or a switch machine takes an "Operating Rod" or "Connecting Rod", which usually has a clevis on the end towards the switch to connect to the #1 road with a bolt or pin, and either another clevis or an 'eye' to drop over a crank on the switch stand, or whatever type of connection is needed for the switch machine, etc. The Operating Rod is usually about 3' to 5' long, and is usually round. Sometimes the clevis is threaded to make adjustment of the throws for each point easier - we used to particularly like the "triple adjustable" rods, since you could adjust the overall length and the throw for each point independently, without affecting the other one's setting.
Let me see if I have or can find a decent close-up photo of some of this that I can post here; otherwise, I'll get some as soon as the snow melts - although, right now it would make a good contrast with the darker rods . . .
- Paul North.
WOW-- you guys are great, as always! Sincere thanks all around!
I've basically finished all the rest of the alphabet, so here's what I have so far: (quotes from the Glossary)
1. Are the ditch lights the ones that alternately flash? (called 'wig-wag' headlights on an emergency vehicle, I think.)
2. throwbar?
Nance-CCABW/LEI
“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown
WMNB4THRTL Signals: I HOPE I finally have this down?! (examples- colors, movements not tech. correct) aspect: description "red over green" name: 'diverging clear' (whatever that means?!) indication: stop and proceed Thanks in advance.
Signals: I HOPE I finally have this down?!
(examples- colors, movements not tech. correct)
aspect: description "red over green"
name: 'diverging clear' (whatever that means?!)
indication: stop and proceed
Thanks in advance.
The indication for a Diverging Clear would be, "Proceed on diverging route, not exceeding prescribed speed of the turnout."
The learning aids for our signals gave some hints. If a green is displayed on the signal, the name will include the word "clear." (Our signals can have from one to three heads) If a yellow is displayed the name will include the word "approach." If a lunar is displayed, the name will include the word "restricting."
Some, but not all examples: Green = Clear, Red over Green = Diverging Clear
Yellow = Approach, Flashing Yellow = advance (not advanced like some say) approach, Yellow over Yellow = Approach Diverging
Lunar = Restricting, Red over Lunar = Restricting, Yellow over Lunar = Approach Restricting (notice it uses both approach and restricting).
Since signals are railroad specific, I can't guarantee this will work for every railroad. There are some signals that are the same, and some that aren't.
Carl, I know you'll like this since it ranks right up there with advanced approach. Yesterday we took a grain train off the main line onto a branch line. The junction switch is a control point with a power switch. The signal was displaying a Red over Flashing Red. As we went past it the conductor called out the signal over the radio, "UP6554 East, CP A225 Main 1, Diverging Restricting." I almost said something, but didn't, just kind of shook my head.
Jeff
Let's see...what's weird...CShaveRR looking at a stub switch? CShaveRR in Colorado? Guess that's two counts, but I'm weird in a lot more ways, too!
Yes, stub switches, three routes off one, and narrow-gauge...might seem weird to lots of folks, but we were, after all, in a museum (and a great one, too!).
Actually, if you look at a glossary of railroad slang, Nance, one of the terms used for throwing a switch is "bend the iron". A stub switch is the one type that literally does this. And it's also the only way you'll really get a three-way switch.
On that roll-by identification thing: usually the workers who are going to be giving you the roll by are on the right-of-way with permission, and the trains need permission to go past them. They will call for this permission using their engine number in our area (or train number, in the case of the Metra trains), so the employee-in-charge knows the engine number, and will probably use that, at least to report to the engineer that the train is now clear of his territory. The exception is in multiple-track territory--in some cases a train may not need to get clearance past workers (if the workers are only on Track 1 and the train's on Track 3, for example, they don't need to be notified). In that case, "westbound stacker" or "eastbound manifest", and location, should be good enough. One person can give a roll-by, and he'll usually say something like "Lookin' good on the north side, over!".
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
WMNB4THRTL Wonderful! Many thanks to each of you! I've been working on (and thankfully, finished) 'S' tonight. 1. shoofly: (no, not the pie either!) some examples of why they'd need this, pls?
Wonderful! Many thanks to each of you!
I've been working on (and thankfully, finished) 'S' tonight.
1. shoofly: (no, not the pie either!) some examples of why they'd need this, pls?
You know how they put in those temporary crossovers on the Interstate when they need to work on a bridge or really overhaul a section of roadway? That's about the same thing, at least in principle. It's a specially built detour.
2. short-time rating: I know we touched on this, or similar before, but...I'm still not quite clear on it. I'm not getting this and continuous rating.
Short-time rating is more or less how long you can overload the motors before they'll break.
Think of it in terms of running. A runner can go long distances at a leisurely jog, but can sustain only short distances at a full-out sprint, with varying results in between.
6. stabbing: Is this right? "We took a stabbing, so we got back to the yard late?"
Anything that impedes a train's progress, most often getting stuck in a siding while other (probably more important) trains pass you by.
8. Signals: I HOPE I finally have this down?! (examples- colors, movements not tech. correct) aspect: description "red over green" name: 'diverging clear' (whatever that means?!) indication: stop and proceed Thanks in advance.
Sounds like you're getting a handle on the concept of signals. While there are consistencies (red=stop, yellow=slow down, green=go), there are also variations (red=slow way down or stop and proceed) dependent on the application/location.
Diverging clear means you'll be leaving your current line to go to another, which might be a completely separate line, or a siding. The rulebook/timetable will tell you how fast you can go through that particular area.
Multiple heads (or other modifiers) increase the possible permutations, as in your example.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
WMNB4THRTL snip... 3. smoke deflector/lifter: anybody got a photo of one? Also, is a spark arrestor basically a screen? ...snip
snip...
3. smoke deflector/lifter: anybody got a photo of one? Also, is a spark arrestor basically a screen?
...snip
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cnr_steam2/mountain.htm
James
[quote user="WMNB4THRTL"]
1. shoofly: (no, not the pie either!) some examples of why they'd need this, pls? New bridge construction, derailment, site remediation,,etc. ....anything where the railroad must stay connected and in service.
4. I don't understand 'split' or 'pick' the switch. Neither do trainmasters, yardmasters and the mechanical department many times. Picking a switch usually involves a wheel flange forcing its way in between the stock rail and switch point that is closed. The wheels go the wrong way through the turnout and eventually derail as the rails spread apart. Wheels climb the point for numerous reasons, sometimes because a worn wheel no longer round in cross section at the outside radius of the wheel flange. A wheel flange should not get sharp to the touch which will allow to crush the thin part of the tip of the switch point and crush/climb it. A badly worn switch point tip will also allow a picked/split switch as well as a switch point tip that is not higher than the adjoining stock rail.
5. Which brings me to switches in general:; spring switch, stub switch...??? All the different types... AAAHHHHHH!! Pls HH-EE-LL-PP!!
Most railroaders never see a stub switch. Instead of a stock rail and a sitch point rail together. When a switch is stub, one rail (the entire rail)moves to line up with two connecting tracks. [cshaverr had lots of fun looking at a narrow gage triple throw switch on the Colorado RR Museum grounds - weird on two counts]
Spring switch has a spring loaded switch rod (aka "Mechanical Switchman") which will allow the switch point to open just enough to allow a wheel to pass between the switch point and stock rail in a trailing point/ run-thru/reverse move. In a facing point move, the railcar wheels go the other direction through the turnout. A spring switch is not the same thing as a spring frog. (Both work in a similar fashion)....With a spring switch, you don't dare go halfway through the switch in a trailing point movement and then back up - gravity will work!/ wheels will derail ....usually after one car truck goes down one track with the other wheelset going down the adjoining track. (This roadmaster's future wife used to delight in seeing some of the really wierd yard derailments that interrupted our dinner dates, from the whodunnit? angle and the how-the-heck-do-I-get-out-of-this? adventures in LA.)
7. stock rail?
The stock rail (bent or straight) is the adjoining rail that the switch point snugs up against. The bent stock rail is on the diverging route side and is bent at a very slight angle that allows the switch point in the closed position to allow a train to go in the straight (as opposed to diverging)direction.
[quote]
Mud in Mississippi
(former roadmaster, does not resemble a 1950's Buick Station Wagon with lotsa chrome)
4. I don't understand 'split' or 'pick' the switch.
8. Signals: I HOPE I finally have this down?!
zugmann IN our territory, train symbols are used to call signals. So, you can hear the train coming from far away and know its symbol. Now if you don't know its symbol - then you can use its engine number. Or you can use the generic "westbound at location so and so". Engine numbers are still what are used for our track authorities/warrants.
IN our territory, train symbols are used to call signals. So, you can hear the train coming from far away and know its symbol. Now if you don't know its symbol - then you can use its engine number. Or you can use the generic "westbound at location so and so".
Engine numbers are still what are used for our track authorities/warrants.
In my area, engine numbers are usually used. There are times, trains that are working (picking up/setting out) may use their symbols instead. Even then some would rather still use the engine number.
Sometimes if you need to contact a train and you don't know it's symbol and didn't see it's number, you just say, "hello westbound hopper at (location) or hello eastbound manifest at (location)" Once they answer with their designation, you can tell them what you need to.
WMNB4THRTL 2. quarter-locked: Can anyone help me with this? Can it still happen or is it totally prevented?
From AmericanRails.com.
Quarter-locked: Condition of a steam locomotive when it is stopped so that the drive rods are directly aligned with the piston which does not allow for the locomotive to be moved. The two sides of a steam locomotive are "quartered" (one-quarter rotation out of phase with each other) to prevent quarter-locking from occurring.
To answer your question, with a Diesel-electric, it's not going to happen, unless there was some quirk in the windings of a motor. Even then, with four or six motors, it's not likely all of them would be in exactly the same situation.
The only way the problem is going to occur on a steamer with quartered drivers is if one side isn't working.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
WMNB4THRTL Great; thanks! I'm done with 'R' now, so: 1. (quotes from Glossary) Roadbed On real railroads, the foundation layer of earth on which the track is built. What does it mean, "real railroads," as opposed to...? 2. So I got all 'squared away' on what a 'roadmaster' is but what is a 'trainmaster?' (It's not in Glossary") (Oh, I'm so confused...wait a minute, maybe I'm not! ) 3. road switcher: "...often with steam generator to heat passenger cars." Really? Weren't these diesels? 4. On a roll-by, since trains do NOT go by their road number (huh-just learned that term better in 'R'!!) how would one call to them on the radio if there was a problem? Would you, as a crew member, always, without exception, know that train's number? Or would you just call your dispatcher with the info and s/he would notify them? Enjoy the game, if you watch. If not, enjoy the ads, or the end of the hype when it's over (should cover everybody) Stay warm.
Great; thanks! I'm done with 'R' now, so:
1. (quotes from Glossary)
#2--Different roads could use different titles for the same supervisory personnel; someone who is more familiar with the various titles can better explain this one than I can. One diesel engine manufacturer (Fairbanks-Morse?) called one series of engines "Trainmasters."
#3--as originally intended, roadswitchers were for use with freights. However, the owning roads realized that they were also perfect for short passenger trains, especially after steam generators were installed in them so that the cars did not need to have heaters installed in them, and to provide hot water in the restrooms. (And, there is the account of a newly appointed supervisory man who did not understand that there was no fixed "front" or "rear" to a passenger car which had a heater and that there was no way for a train that was operated on a spur to turn the car so that the heater would always be at the leading end of the car, and after his first trip on a particular spur demanded that the heater be taken out of one end of the car and be installed at the other end. The car was rather old.)
#4--come on, man in the know, tell us, please.
Johnny
A break in the hours of service needs to be 4 hours. (it was 3 hours at one time, but now is 4 hours) In the example given the 3 hour break wouldn't count and that employee would die on the HOS at 2000hrs.
If the employee did have a 4 hour break, than they would still have 6 hours of time left to work. So if they went back on duty at 1800 they would be able to work until midnight.
If you violate the HOS, you and the railroad can be fined. In emergency situations the railroad can order you to violate. In that case you need the details, time and name (initials) of the company officer who ordered the violation. That's entered on our FRA HOS certification screen. When ordered to violate, the company takes responsibility and can still be fined.
I'm sure in the latest round of bad weather there probably was some violating that happened. In past times of extreme winter weather when HOS violations happened in my area, the FRA has negotiated or waived the size of the fines.
If you change jobs (brakeman to engr) you have only the one 12 hour period. Train Dispatchers, Control Operators (the ones who work CTC/manual interlockings) and Signal Maintainers also subject to HOS. In the days of train orders, the train order operators also were covered. The HOS for those other crafts aren't the same has the HOS for TE&Y (train, engine and yard) crews.
OK, I think I got it.
I have a question about crew time. (I did read the recent thread on this but I still don't know.) Say a crew member comes on duty at 0800, readies the train until 1000, takes the run, returns at 1300, ties up at 1400, and has a rest/break until 1700, then readies for next run which pulls out at 1900, to return at 2300, how are these hours counted? Is s/he over, or not bc of the breaks? Does anyone know what happens if you do go over? What about bad weather or a breakdown, or other incident? Thanks in advance.
PS Also, what if a crew member does part of the time as a brakeman and part as an engineer? Are they still bound by only 12 hours work?
You have to keep in mind, railroad terminology differs from railroad to railroad, region to region, division to division, even yard to yard.
A spur (Around here, and to me) is a line (usually dead-ended) that can lead to several sidings . While a lead is purely the customer-owned piece of track between the derail and the actual industry.
Yes, many thanks!
Which brings me to, what's the difference between a spur and a lead, or are they the same?
Off to learn my 'R's.
Paul: Salud!
My pal Pat, the lineside reporter (no way would this guy resemble my wife Pat...hair color's the same, but there's far less of it!) says that our Track 2 was finally broken open at 11:30 this morning.
Just heard a tale about the snow-removal crews at Proviso piling up snow and literally trapping one of the industry jobs in a spur. The engine and cars are reportedly still there. (I guess if the crew couldn't get away they'd be earning their money on tow-out time. That, I say that's a joke, Son!)
I forgot to note, in connection with Mars lights, Metra's F40PH units, at least, are all equipped with them.
There's a grade on CSX's main line in Michigan out of the Kalamazoo River valley, which never appears on any table of steep grades anywhere else, or rates mention on a mountain-going railroad like the C&O, but there used to be two sidings at the top of the hill (East Saugatuck) for the use of trains doubling the hill (from New Richmond). There was also a spur down in New Richmond or thereabouts for helper engines. And helpers were employed on this line not all that many years ago (doubling, obviously, is frowned upon, because the whole railroad is blocked while one train moves up, down, and up again, and requires at least three pump-ups of air). Doubling was probably eliminated by the use of AC motive power, which can literally inch its way up, if necessary. Nowadays, coal trains fight this grade with just two or three of these units (usually BNSF's, bringing the train from Wyoming). About six years ago, Pat and I were witness to a CP haulage-rights train that hit the foot of the grade at a pretty good clip. We watched the entire train, then drove out the long way around, and still made it to East Saugatuck as the lead unit was crawling past the grade crossing. His speed increased markedly as more of the train went by.
There were a couple of "Selected Railroad Reading" type essays on Saluda - at least 1 by C. W. McCall, as I remember, and another one by a Don Phillips or Ron Flanary type - which also mentioned "doubling and tripling the hill".
Currently, it's out of service, but almost all of the track is still in. There's a thread on here that saw some activity within the last month or two . . . Quentin/ modelcar has posted to it a few times.
"Protect" was/ is also used in the sense of "cover" or "assigned to", as in "That locomotive protects this run".
Thanks to you all.
Trains ran a huge article on Saluda grade in Nov. 1984. Those of you with the DVD or back issues...
Larry, it does briefly mention doubling the hill. (EDIT And maybe tripling it?)
Johnny, looks like a major incident one month after yours, it took place Sept. '64.
WOW-- I may get sidetracked now into reading all about Saluda. Hey, anybody know of the current status? All I seem to find is that they were/are working hard to reestablish a train running there.
Grades - Seems like I've read of trains having to double Saluda, but can't cite sources. In general, it comes down to adhesion vs tonnage. Given a steep enough grade, sometimes a train can get over with X power and Y tonnage, other times factors (wet rail, oversized train) may conspire against the crew and they will end up doubling the hill.
Protect - Crews and power were (and still are) assigned to provide backup for VIP movements (presidential trains and the like). They would be spaced along the route so they could quickly respond if there was a problem.
Manifest freight - I've always thought of them as a collection of individual cars - each likely with a "manifest." They would be similar to a "grain" train, which could well have several types of grain.
Many, if not most, of the other trains you see on the rails are single purpose - coal, coke, intermodal, grain, etc. One you might see that could be a little confusing would be an auto parts train, significant portions of which are actually in "captive" service between auto plants (component manufacturing and final assembly). Years ago I remember seeing daily trains on the C&O (former Pere Marquette, now CSX Saginaw line) with gons full of automobile frames (when cars had frames). There were also a number of boxcars, which of course, contained more auto parts.
CShaveRR WMNB4THRTL: 2. re: grade-- it says steepest N. Amer. grade is on NS mainline near Saluda, NC at 4.7%. Does anybody know if they have to treat this section differently, like perhaps double/triple the hill, send extra power/locos, etc? NS currently has this line out of service. I'm pretty sure that trains were dispatched with power enough to tackle the grade, and that doubling was probably not necessary--somebody will correct me there, if I'm wrong about that. I do know that they had to take precautions going downhill, and that there were one or two "runaway tracks" on the way down, that would be used if a train were going above a given speed (measured by the time it took to go between two signals--only if they weren't going too fast would the route be lined for them to continue down the hill).
WMNB4THRTL: 2. re: grade-- it says steepest N. Amer. grade is on NS mainline near Saluda, NC at 4.7%. Does anybody know if they have to treat this section differently, like perhaps double/triple the hill, send extra power/locos, etc?
NS currently has this line out of service. I'm pretty sure that trains were dispatched with power enough to tackle the grade, and that doubling was probably not necessary--somebody will correct me there, if I'm wrong about that. I do know that they had to take precautions going downhill, and that there were one or two "runaway tracks" on the way down, that would be used if a train were going above a given speed (measured by the time it took to go between two signals--only if they weren't going too fast would the route be lined for them to continue down the hill).
And, speaking of sand, I went up the grade once, in August of '64. The weed-killer train had just come down, spraying oil on the right of way and on the track. We had plenty of power on the Carolina Special--but the sanders were not working, so we crept up the hill, taking close to an hour before we reached the summit.
I don't know if I can define "protect" better, but I'll try to elaborate. If you're an employee and are assigned to, or called for, a job, it becomes your responsibility to protect that job--make sure that it works. I guess, used this way, it's the opposite of "sticking" the job (the job is stuck without you).
For locomotives, it's the same thing. The shop forces must supply enough locomotives to protect all of the assignments that are scheduled to work.
Protect means available to "rescue" a train. For example concerning crews: I work a first shift yard job. After we are done with our work, we may have to hang around and protect a local/road job that is still working but short on time. If they run out of time wihtout finishing their work, we have to go finish up.
Concerning equipment: in harrisburg, PA there is usually a "protect" diesel. In case an electric train breaks down (or the wire has issues), the diesel can then be sent out to rescue the disabled trains(s).
Gratitude all around; you're a great help!! (My, imagine what my final exam will look like--YIKES!!)
Well, what a productive day!! I'm through with 'Q.' (BTW, MC: what has to happen before/when we get to 'S?' As soon as I get the chance, I'll be entering 'R'-ville).
1. Again, from Glossary:
WMNB4THRTL2. re: grade-- it says steepest N. Amer. grade is on NS mainline near Saluda, NC at 4.7%. Does anybody know if they have to treat this section differently, like perhaps double/triple the hill, send extra power/locos, etc?
WMNB4THRTL Carl, glad to hear things are getting back at least closer to normal.
Carl, glad to hear things are getting back at least closer to normal.
Just missed seeing an eastbound (manifest ) freight while we were out this morning. It still doesn't look like Track 2 has been opened up through here. This train was on Track 1, and came through when we'd be expecting a scoot there under normal conditions (scoot could have been a couple of minutes later--nothing in Metra about any delays).
Had to dig out our driveway again this morning, thanks to the plows filling things in for us. Also widened it a bit in places--I actually found the edges! Driving isn't fun right now--the roads themselves aren't bad, but the snow is piled up so high that it's difficult to see at intersections and such!
WMNB4THRTL1. hot box detector-- do these work with like an infrared type of a detector where it senses heat?
I believe so. All of the bearings generate some heat; the detector will broadcast the message when the temperature goes over a certain threshold. Used to be that dispatchers would monitor a graph generated by the detectors in their offices and communicate with the train if there was an unusual spike. I'm pretty sure the printouts are still accessible, but they don't have to be constantly watched.
WMNB4THRTL2. hunting-- (from Glossary,) in part it says, "Destructive tendency of a truck to nose from side-to-side..." Is it destructive bc it wears on the flanges somehow? How would it be corrected, or can it be?
Somebody can better tell you how correctable the problem is, if indeed it is possible to correct. More rigid trucks, and constant-contact side bearings, damp the problem a bit. Think of the truck as a rectangle--two axles and two sideframes--with a bolster going through the center parallel to the axles. Hunting causes the rectangle to become a non-rectangular parallelogram, usually oscillating from one extreme to the other. This is more likely to happen at higher speeds, and in some extreme instances you can notice the car weaving from side to side--it's scary! As you can imagine, flanges are the least of the worries--this can't be easy on the bearings or other truck components, either.
WMNB4THRTL3. I'm unclear what a lead is, in terms of tracks.
Somebody has already answered this question, in terms of industrial leads. It's basically a single track leading to something else--either a yard or one or more industries. Sometimes, in the case of timetables, it's a downgraded subdivision--for example, the former C&NW Skokie Subdivision had a portion abandoned in the middle, and became the Skokie Industrial Lead on one end and the Cragin Industrial lead on the other. In our yard, we have a pair of hump leads--tracks that lead out of the receiving yard toward the crest of the hump--capable of holding about 70-80 cars' worth of hump shove.
WMNB4THRTL4. A comment, not a question. Most all you guys will know this, probably better than I do, but for anyone who doesn't know, whenever you release a handbrake, at least on the type I know, only let/make the wheel take about 3-4 turns. Otherwise, the chain will drag on the wheels and cause excessive wear, thus weakening, of the chain. Trust me, if you do this and they know it was you, or can prove it, you will be extremely unpopular!! Fortunately, I was only taught this and did not have to experience it firsthand. (WHEW!!)
You may be dealing with some antique equipment there, Nance! In most cases nowadays, you release a handbrake by pulling on, or flipping over, a lever. The wheel doesn't spin at all, the chain just releases. There is no axle contact to be concerned with, as the rods are usually some distance above the axles--not much in the way of brake chains underneath the cars.
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