Tyner was simultaneously thrown out of San Diego International Airport on Saturday morning for refusing to submit to a security check and threatened with a lawsuit and a $10,000 fine if he left.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/nov/14/tsa-ejects-oceanside-man-airport-refusing-security/
There has been an uproar over TSA air security. X-Ray image of near center fold revelations, or that certain feeling, the choice is yours.
Will this encourage Amtrak ridership? Is there a marketing opportunity in avoid the scans?
No. We have become a nation of sheep.
Mac
Listend to Rush today comment on this particular situation. Mr.Tyner, after getting his refund, attempted to leave the airport and was told about their ability to not only make his subject to a Federal Fine ($10 K was the number mentioned) but also subject to Civil Suit and he was instructed because he left the TSA Area he was still subject to the 'Pat Down'.
Sure makes the case to travel anywhere by car and enjoy the railfanning and train chasing, enroute. And many pundits today were making noises about how AMTRAK was in thei Federal sights for the next area to 'protect us' from terrorism.
It would seem that the terrorists are more and more wearing TSA uniforms.
Oh! For a return to yesteryear, when we could ride a train without a worry and get where we had bought our ticket for.
PNWRMNM No. We have become a nation of sheep. Mac
You got that right. The day they start airport style security at the train station will be the day that I never ride mass transit again.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
You folk just don't seem to understand reality. Sure, I WISH things were not the way they are today, but if you don't want to be x-rayed or patted down, then I guess you could go bonkers and get congress to pass laws that exempt all from such invasive procedures and go fly with every terrorist nincompoop with a bomb, AK47, Rocket Grenade, Howitser, and/or Atomic Cannon they want to bring on board with them.
It won't be long before one of them blows up a train and you will be subject to the same indiginities at every AMTRAK station. Then there will be the fool that drives a bus into a crowded mall and all the Greyhound stations will have TSA folk employed there too. Can every Interstate rest-stop be man'd too?
Wake up and smell the stink. We are all in the "hand basket" and you should by now know just where that hand basket is headed.
I have to pass through a metal detector at the county courthouse every month to go pay alimony just because some idiot had a 2-inch pen-knife and stabbed the Assistant District Attorney in the back. No knives of any type are allowed now, not even a letter opener. I have to empty my pockets into a bag I keep in the car... Swiss Army knife, metal machinists rule, pens, pencils,... I am suprised I can take my car keys with me. I know that "I" am a very nice person and I know that "I" would never harm anyone with my Swiss Armey Knife, but the rest of the people there do not know that, so I must trust the people that I do not know, but wear a uniform, to protect "ME" from all those others that just might be the kook of the day. Do I like this? NO!
But if WE don't start standing together and find ways to defeat these fools, they they will do more than just "win" the terrorism war. If you have a better way, speak up. NOW!
If you are just going to moan and whine about it...
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Not only does this intrusive screening of every passenger miss the real point, but also it is a waste of resources. It is an illusion of safety, and a make-work program for the TSA and its unions, so it is bound to come to passenger rail. It is our stimulus in action. No pun intended.
I have seen one or two ads by Amtrak promoting train travel as a way to avoid the airpoort hassles associated with flying. I cannot remember whether they mentioned screening, but the implication is clear.
Now that I am retired, I drive or take the train whenever I can. I don't fly unless the alternatives are not a good bet. But when I go to Australia, where I lived for more than five years, to visit my friends, I sure don't take the train to the west coast and a ship to Australia. As a retired person I have lots of time on my hands, but not enough to endure a ship ride to Australia, assuming that I could even get one that goes there.
This year more than 725 million passengers are expected to pass through airport security in the U.S. A few of these folks will have unpleasant experiences with the TSA. But I have had no bad experiences with the TSA during the five years that I have been retired. In fact, overall, they have done a good job. They move people through the Austin airport with little fuss. So one should be careful not to generalize to the whole population a few bad experiences.
When traveling long distances or time is short, flying is the best way to go. Today it costs about half of what it did in 1978, the year before the airlines were deregulated, when adjusted for inflation. It is not as comfortable as a bedroom in a Superliner car, but it is a lot cheaper and much quicker.
Bucyrus has it right. It is an illusion of safety, but the reality isn't there. It does make the sheep feel better, perhaps, and certainly employs a good many otherwise unemployable individuals.
If you want safety on an airline, try El Al -- except for flights to the US, where they have to, they don't grope you, X-ray you, frisk you, and otherwise mess with you. What they do have is superb intelligence (in many senses of the word!) and they use profiling extensively. And, oddly, it works and folks aren't hassled who don't need to be. I might add that folks who do need to be hassled, are, though -- with a vengeance!
Sam1 I have seen one or two ads by Amtrak promoting train travel as a way to avoid the airpoort hassles associated with flying. I cannot remember whether they mentioned screening, but the implication is clear.
A while back they had ads on the bottoms of those plastic trays you put your shoes, belts, keys, etc., in, saying something like "On Amtrak, you only take off your shoes if you want to" at Chicago O'Hare airport. A pretty good ad, I think.
Amtrak already has K-9 dogs at South Station in Boston plus the ability to pull aside and screen anyone inside a certain area, and I can imagine more security after the inevitable attempted attack on public transportation, but I can't imagine how they would get full security out of any terminal that also runs commuter rail trains. There's just TOO MANY PEOPLE and not enough space to screen them all.
As a person who travels by airplane for business very often, I feel this way when it comes to airport security..."If you don't want to be subjected to airport security, either stay home, take your car or travel by train".
eolafan As a person who travels by airplane for business very often, I feel this way when it comes to airport security..."If you don't want to be subjected to airport security, either stay home, take your car or travel by train".
Isn't it convenient how this whole incident made the guy's blog viral? He did this solely for publicity.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
If you don't want to be screened, go play World of Warcraft. . Is he going to sue the doctor making sure he doesn't have cancer?
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
zugmann Isn't it convenient how this whole incident made the guy's blog viral? He did this solely for publicity.
Exactly!!
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
It's only a matter of time before terrorists figure out that trains would make good targets..and then we will see all that security stuff at train stations too. The best way to avoid the hassle is to get into your car and drive to whever you need to get to...
Please publish a list of terrorists caught at TSA airport screening stations in all the years they have been doing this.
It is all an illusion designed to make you think the politicians are doing something. In fact, what they are doing is throwing HUGE amounts of money down a rat hole and taking away YOUR civil rights. They are accomplishing nothing.
It is unamerican. I, personally, prefer freedom to the illusion of safety.
She added that "if people want to travel by some other means," they have that right.
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2010-11-16-airportpatdowns16_ST_N.htm
Ms. Napolitano agrees. If you do not like the scans and searches, do not fly.
If Amtrak does not latch onto this, what about Mega Bus, Greyhound and others? The marketing opportunity is there.
The only time I fly is when we go off the continent - Not many options there, though...
Go here for my rail shots! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296
Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/
From Phoebe Vet: "...It is all an illusion designed to make you think the politicians are doing something. In fact, what they are doing is throwing HUGE amounts of money down a rat hole and taking away YOUR civil rights. They are accomplishing nothing..."
One of the main reasons why politicians cultivate connections with the folks who have private jets.
You have to wonder if San Fran Nan goes through a TSA Check before she boards her plane (AF-3) and flys off to California on her 757 or G-5? [The answer is most likely, pretty obvious!]
Ms. Napolitano:
If people are afraid to get on an airplane until all the passengers and crew have been strip searched, X-rayed, patted down, and background investigated maybe THEY should endure the inconvenience of using another form of transportation.
The entire TSA organization is inconsistent with "Traditional American Values".
Yeah? Is everyone boarding an airplane getting "strip searched, X-rayed, patted down, and background investigated"? Didn't think so. Personally I think this type of thinking is what led to all the terrorist attacks. "It can NEVER happen to me" "No one would ever do this" Wake up and smell the coffee people. There are bad people out there. Even if only one plane bombing is stopped, it is worth it. Will there ever be another one? Maybe not, but we are not giving up any freedoms by getting searched. If you have nothing to hide, nothing will happen and you will move on your merry way. Its not the 1960's anymore guys. You cannot go to bed with your doors unlocked. Its a different time now. Wake up reality.
coborn35 Yeah? Is everyone boarding an airplane getting "strip searched, X-rayed, patted down, and background investigated"? Didn't think so. Personally I think this type of thinking is what led to all the terrorist attacks. "It can NEVER happen to me" "No one would ever do this" Wake up and smell the coffee people. There are bad people out there. Even if only one plane bombing is stopped, it is worth it. Will there ever be another one? Maybe not, but we are not giving up any freedoms by getting searched. If you have nothing to hide, nothing will happen and you will move on your merry way. Its not the 1960's anymore guys. You cannot go to bed with your doors unlocked. Its a different time now. Wake up reality.
The reason that terrorism is such an effective weapon against America is because Americans are so easily frightened. In Sept of 2001 more people died in traffic accidents in the US than died at the hands of terrorists. TSA is spending 8 BILLION dollars a year and operating far outside of our Constitution because YOU are afraid of a loosely organized band of criminals. You stand a better chance of being struck by lightning than of being killed by a terrorist. The response to the fear is WAY out of proportion to the actual threat. America is not more dangerous today that it was in the '60s. Bad people will always exist, and all of the government surveillance and intrusion in the world will never change that. To quote the loony Sarah Palin: "Man up".
coborn35 Wake up and smell the coffee people. There are bad people out there. You cannot go to bed with your doors unlocked. Its a different time now. Wake up reality.
Wake up and smell the coffee people. There are bad people out there. You cannot go to bed with your doors unlocked. Its a different time now. Wake up reality.
Yes there are bad people who will commit terrorism on us, but that is not the point. The point is that there is a much more effective way to perform security. True security would make us safer without having a bunch of bureaucrats performing obnoxious body searches on everybody. True security is best accomplished by a few highly qualified experts performing intensely perceptive profiling and scrutiny on a selective basis where individual cases are red-flagged. This TSA nonsense is just another bloated government program justifying its existence to the public by performing security theater.
Bucyrus Yes there are bad people who will commit terrorism on us, but that is not the point. The point is that there is a much more effective way to perform security. True security would make us safer without having a bunch of bureaucrats performing obnoxious body searches on everybody. True security is best accomplished by a few highly qualified experts performing intensely perceptive profiling and scrutiny on a selective basis where individual cases are red-flagged. This TSA nonsense is just another bloated government program justifying its existence to the public by performing security theater.
I agree.
Phoebe Vet It is all an illusion designed to make you think the politicians are doing something. In fact, what they are doing is throwing HUGE amounts of money down a rat hole and taking away YOUR civil rights. They are accomplishing nothing.
Being just an idiot railroader, edjumacate me: what are the civil rights that are being taken away?
I agree as well...however.... finding more than a handful of "highly qualified experts" in any field is the challenge....hence the bunch of bureaucrats you see in almost every field.
Your right not to be patted or exposed by strangers (unless you want to be)...
Ulrich Your right not to be patted or exposed by strangers (unless you want to be)...
Is that a civil rights issue?
zugmann Ulrich: Your right not to be patted or exposed by strangers (unless you want to be)... Is that a civil rights issue?
Ulrich: Your right not to be patted or exposed by strangers (unless you want to be)...
I don't know...but here's an interesting link on civil rights...
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/civil-rights/
Zug:
Please review the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
Fourth ammendment issue maybe....but not necessarily a civil rights issue... And the fourth ammendment is open to intrepretation...ie.your idea of "reasonable may differ from mine..
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