I am waiting for some officious twit, on a typical Friday afternoon and evening, to start reporting to police the 50-plus railfans congregating at the Fullerton Amtrak depot. The incidence of cameras is about 1.2 per railfan.
Most of us carry wallet cards identifying us as members of BNSF's Citizens for Rail Security. I wonder if that will add to the confusion.
The local Fullerton police have jurisdiction. I have never had official contact with them but others say they are sensible concerning railfans.
Jack
Jack_S I am waiting for some officious twit, on a typical Friday afternoon and evening, to start reporting to police the 50-plus railfans congregating at the Fullerton Amtrak depot.
Or Deshler, or Folkston, or Cresson, or Rochelle, or any of the dozens of railfan Meccas around the country.
I will say that, while I didn't speak to any of them directly, the local police in Deshler seem to understand the railfan thing, not to mention knowing some of the regulars.
It's great to be aware of your surroundings, but understanding what they mean is important, too.
Consider that it's common knowledge in 9-1-1 centers that handle cell calls that a single incident on a busy interstate will generate 10-12 calls. The local roads aren't much better, and the callers usually don't know where they are, or even what they are seeing. Most wouldn't know "heavy smoke" if they saw it, yet your backyard bonfire gets reported as a "possible structure fire with heavy smoke showing." I get so tired of responding to that junk...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
This will all come to a head, and likely end, when a flood of such calls about railfans come flowing into law enforcement and they (law enforcement) find that virtually all of the calls (if not 100%) are false alarms related to railfans innocently exercising our hobby.
What should be done is to have a call for all railfans to be anyplace trackside at precisely 12N EDT, Saturday October 3rd. with cameras. The more public the area, the more non-railroad property, the better. We can call it a Photo OP IN. No beligerence, no arguing, no ruckus. Just everyone be there with camera whether or not you take a picture or not.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
I like this idea. Can it be organized?
As long as the fear mongers keep constantly telling us that everyone is out to get us and that all middle easterners want all westerners dead you can expect this panic driven foolishness to continue and to continually get worse.
I understand that the threat level has been raised to periwinkle.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
OK - I'm one of the last people to start yelping that homeland security policies are an attempt to take away our personal freedoms, but this is too much. I can understand the extra security at airports (mostly because I refuse to fly anymore), but this kinda BS statement by Ms. Napolitano is way off the deep end by suggesting people call the cops even though someone is clearly not breaking the law. That's ridiculous in the least.
She needs to get treated for cronic foot-in-mouth disease she's afflicted with - she's already insulted veterans and now she's indirectly coming after legitimate hobbyists.
IMO, much of this is nothing more than the government (at any level) giving the appearance of doing something when they really aren't. "Yes sir, we're on the ball, on top of it, don't worry." When in reality the truth is closer to, "Hopefully the vast majority won't find out that we're clueless, inept, and dysfunctional on our best day."
I see this on the job too. Many things done for "safety" that really may not be a bad idea, but don't make things much safer. It just looks like the railroad is "proactive."
Jeff
PS At a railfan meeting last night I learned that the new UP high bridge west of Boone is equipped with security cameras. Also the county road underneath the old and new bridge is open to the public again.
eolafan This will all come to a head, and likely end, when a flood of such calls about railfans come flowing into law enforcement and they (law enforcement) find that virtually all of the calls (if not 100%) are false alarms related to railfans innocently exercising our hobby.
Not to hijack the thread but look at the time/date/year that eolafan posted at. I smell some kind of conspiracy here....lol
http://www.youtube.com/user/pavabo
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulvbox
henry6What should be done is to have a call for all railfans to be anyplace trackside at precisely 12N EDT, Saturday October 3rd. with cameras. The more public the area, the more non-railroad property, the better. We can call it a Photo OP IN. No beligerence, no arguing, no ruckus. Just everyone be there with camera whether or not you take a picture or not.
Any specific reason for that date?
Very good idea, it's about time WE (railfans) shouldn't be singled out as a "Terrorist Threat".
Just because we "hang out" at any location with a camera in hand, or around our necks doesn't mean we're going to do something nasty. (hurt other people, or destroy infrastructure.)
Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!!
Napolitano makes perfect sense to me...report everything you see and nothing will be missed!! A dog is crapping on someone's lawn?... call the police!! Your neighbours toe nails aren't painted today?... Veeerrrrrry suspicious!!!! Maybe she's converted over to "those guys".. make that call! OMG... a cloud in the shape of a dagger!!!! That's a 911 for sure.. Napolitano is the dumbest thing ever to walk upright... we may all be doomed.
henry6 What should be done is to have a call for all railfans to be anyplace trackside at precisely 12N EDT, Saturday October 3rd. with cameras. The more public the area, the more non-railroad property, the better. We can call it a Photo OP IN. No beligerence, no arguing, no ruckus. Just everyone be there with camera whether or not you take a picture or not.
Henry,
While I like your idea on general principals, it is probably not too good in practice because calls will go not to brain dead Homeland Security but to local police. About all you are likely to accomplish is to get local police, who have far better things to do, mad at you. You might even get ticketed for false 911 report, and I would not want to rely on the "Homeland Security told me to do it" defense.
Mac
JIM; You are spot on!
Comment #1---YOUR TIMING IS IMPECCABLE !
Comment #2-- "...NEVER LET A GOOD CRISIS GO TO WASTE!..."
I have just about given up on the subject.
The scariest part is the assumption that someone who is planning a terrorist attack has to go out to the target site with a Cannon Digital Rebel and a 300MM or larger lens and start snaping shots from every possible angle.
Terrorist are evil or insane, but they aren't necessarily idiots.
Oh yes, don't tell anyone about the 'birdseye" feature of Bing Maps.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
Oct 3 picked because it would give everyone a couple of weeks to decide what they want to do, I'm busy the next three Saturadys, and so I just picked the date out of thin air. Figure Sat. is the best day rather than a weekday when all good and prosperous Americans are busy at work and rather than a Sunday when all good Americans are at Church; yeah, Saturday works best.
We will do nothing. We will just stand by viewing a railroad track or tracks and maybe taking pictures of trains if we wish. The alarmed public will be the ones to jam the 911 phone lines telliing whoever answers that the lady from Amtrak told them to call if they see people taking pictures of trains. Let the police take it from there. If they have been informed by Amtrak and Homeland Security about the threat of people taking pictures, they will report back to Big Brother and Sister; if they haven't heard from them, it will just be interesting to see how it all plays out. If enough photographers are caught and reported by the general public at the same time it might just be enough to underscore the foolishness of these laws. All I am saying is that we've talked about this and talked about this and now here is an opportunity to do something that does not take much effort, does not put anybody at risk, does not destroy property, but just might show them up. I don't care if somebody else wants to spearhead it, I just suggested it as some way to make our plight heard. Evidently they don't read our posts here at Trains.com!
I'm all for that...exercise your freedoms..don't take them for granted. Hopefully Big Brother will see the folly in his ways..but don't count on it.
I'm in - 10/3 is good for me (I have TiVo to record football). I can get out to Isanti where there's a perfectly legal public parking lot right next to the BNSF Hinckley Sub and my favorite gourmet coffee shop just up the street.
I said this as a sarcastic remark. But, hey, I'll do it. It would be neat to hear that several hundred or even several thousand railfans across the country went out to take pictures at the same time on the same day. Even if no one calls Homeland Security, maybe there would be enough good precise minute shots for a page or so in Trains! Say Saturday, October 3, 2009 11:45AM to 12:15PM Eastern,10:45AM-11:15 AM Central, 9:45AM-10:15AM Mountain, and 8:45AM to 9:15AM Pacific time there were people with cameras somewhere near a railroad, any railroad, anyplace at random. Do it legally (?) on public property or your own property, NOT ON RAILROAD PROPERTY, don't have to take a picture if you don't want to, just have a camera with you, don't have to confront anybody or say anything to anybody. Even if nothing happens or gets reported to anyone, the show of force (farce) might be worth it. Easterners can have lunch while doing it, west coasters can finish breakfast just in time, the in betweeners can enjoy a coffee break, and you don't have to take up your whole Saturday, just as much of that half hour as possible.!
then you wonder why the railroaders hate foamers . you guys are the first to complain when the law comes to your spots and questiions you and the same guys who complain when railroaders turn you in. then you guys are the same guys who female dog and moan when you here of someone screwing up and making a bad name for foamers , then you have the nerve to turn railroaders in on the abuse button here for your own fantisy to continue.
With all that said my point is the same guys ( all you guys posting) Are attempting to go out and draw alot of attention to your self and really set yourselfs back 20years and if you come out in the swarms that your trying to do so you can prove your points, then great i Hope everyone of you go to jail ( for your cause yea right) and i will help the police arrest the ones in my area. this is not a game. You want to be accepted do it the right way not as a bunch of vigalanties . No im not parinoid and i dont belive the world is ending. but when i see groups of people standing track side its not ussually a good thing and most generally ends up being trouble.
I think you're wrong, Wabash. I think doing this would point out the absurdity of the attitude toward rail photogrphy. I am not proposing we be on railroad property just nearby like the law says. If I thought you lived near me, I'd tell you where I would be so you could have the fun of reporting me to Homeland Security. Yes this is an attempt to get "alot of attention" because that is the idea of protesting the rule. If we all shut up, or kept the conversation to ourselves here, then who would know the rediculousness of the rule of no photographing trains. If we can't photograph trains, then what will the majority of today's railfans find to do in the name of railfanning. It is just a chance to make a point. I actually doubt that anyone would be reported to show further how absurd the rule is.
Phoebe Vet As long as the fear mongers keep constantly telling us that everyone is out to get us and that all middle easterners want all westerners dead you can expect this panic driven foolishness to continue and to continually get worse. I understand that the threat level has been raised to periwinkle.
23 17 46 11
Just a couple of points for consideration:
1) How many people actually know about Napolitano's statement? I have a list of news websites that I peruse each morning and each evening and I watch local and national news on TV. I wouldn't know anything about this if I hadn't read about it in the Newswire.
2) Flocking to the tracks on a particular date is just asking for trouble, in my opinion. People are a lot more likely to get nervous if they see a big group doing something "unusual" than if they see just one or two people partaking in the activity. Plus, there will be some railfans who decide to take things too far and do something stupid that will get them into a whole world of hurt and shed a negative light on railfans in general. If the public sees railfans as trouble-makers, more suspicions and problems will undoubtedly arise.
3) Maybe the best way to counter this is to take a passive approach and just go on railfanning like usual. Keep going to the tracks, keep taking pictures, stay safe, and my guess is that there won't be any more problems than usual.
Willy
I agree with Willy in his above comments.
If you want to convince Homeland Security and the public that railfan activity is not unusual, I don’t think that thousands of railfans simultaneously showing up trackside with no public explanation is the way to go about it.
edblysard Phoebe Vet As long as the fear mongers keep constantly telling us that everyone is out to get us and that all middle easterners want all westerners dead you can expect this panic driven foolishness to continue and to continually get worse. I understand that the threat level has been raised to periwinkle. Periwinkle...isn't that the one where we are supposed to have a ten year supply of twinkies and five gallons of water put away in our bomb shelters "just in case"?
No; that's Saffron. Periwinkle is where you dig a moat around your house and fill it with battery acid then trade the Twinkies for cigarettes and ammunition.
Crimson is where you are authorized to make pre-emptive strikes against any neighbors who strike you as suspicious.
The port of Long Beach (CA.) is having a combination open house,tree hugger fest on 10-3. There will be free Metrolink rides and boat rides to see the harbor. There will be food and snacks,plus many eco-type exhibits. Napolitano take note. There will be many people there,most of them taking pictures of rail and port facilities. I will be one of them. When I hear "Free train ride" I'm there, regardless of who sponsors the event.
Even if a "foamer flash mob" could somehow get national recognition and actually happen, you know there are too many railfans that would not only step over the line, but they would stop to pee on it. Take *any* of the latest major rail events in the last dozen years. Even with zero tolerance for trespassing, there are always a good number of fans crawling all over private property and on the tracks just to get that "perfect shot". Such actions would pretty much destroy the intended message that railfans are a law-abiding, responsible crowd.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Willy2 Just a couple of points for consideration: 1) How many people actually know about Napolitano's statement? I have a list of news websites that I peruse each morning and each evening and I watch local and national news on TV. I wouldn't know anything about this if I hadn't read about it in the Newswire. 2) Flocking to the tracks on a particular date is just asking for trouble, in my opinion. People are a lot more likely to get nervous if they see a big group doing something "unusual" than if they see just one or two people partaking in the activity. Plus, there will be some railfans who decide to take things too far and do something stupid that will get them into a whole world of hurt and shed a negative light on railfans in general. If the public sees railfans as trouble-makers, more suspicions and problems will undoubtedly arise. 3) Maybe the best way to counter this is to take a passive approach and just go on railfanning like usual. Keep going to the tracks, keep taking pictures, stay safe, and my guess is that there won't be any more problems than usual.
Actually, Willy, you and others are proving part of my point of the facetiousness of both the photography rules and who we are. But I am not asking for a single large gathering. Even if 10,000 people wanted to do this, they could be so spread all over that it wouldn't really be a mob scene, further underscoring the rule's stupidity. And you're right, too, Willy, in that the media has really not paid any attention to it...perhaps all the more reason for railfans to do something to bring this to the attention of others. So if we do nothing, what is the next right that is going to be taken from us? Under what banner or excuse would it be done? No, the more I think about this, the less sarcastic I feel and the more I would encourage railfans to step forward that day and take a picture of a train. Not a mob assembly, not breaking any laws, taking a picture from a legal and safe location of a train. And if its an Amtrak train, I suppose all the better. No organization, no signs, no assembly, no fussing. Just go near a railroad track with a camera in hand and if a train comes along, take a picture. Then go home or to church or to a football game or whatever you would normally do at that time on Saturday.
henry6 ... not breaking any laws, taking a picture from a legal and safe location of a train.
... not breaking any laws, taking a picture from a legal and safe location of a train.
Yeah, like that would happen.
zugmann Even if a "foamer flash mob"
Even if a "foamer flash mob"
I still do not wave!
zugmann henry6 ... not breaking any laws, taking a picture from a legal and safe location of a train. Yeah, like that would happen.
Perhaps henry6 would like to take the opportunity now to step up and take personal responsibility to ensure that no foamers do anything stupid or injure themselves or cause railroad employees to injure themselves.
Murray zugmann henry6 ... not breaking any laws, taking a picture from a legal and safe location of a train. Yeah, like that would happen. Perhaps henry6 would like to take the opportunity now to step up and take personal responsibility to ensure that no foamers do anything stupid or injure themselves or cause railroad employees to injure themselves.
Safety First Henry6. And you're first in line.
RRKen I still do not wave!
Given the security paranoia inspired by Homeland...you're probably better off not to anyway...a wave might illicit a call to Big Brother as suspicious activity.
The good old days are gone..back in the day my brother and I would wave at the trains like fools...and the guys on the trains would wave back at us like fools. Now that's all gone.. there are fewer people on the trains and the kids are playing computer games...thank God for progress...
What if Eleanor Roosevelt waved?
Waved what?
The flag...
...from her 1951 Nash.
Murray What if Eleanor Roosevelt waved?
I think she did, but she had more pull that we do. Homeland Security would not mess with her.
I'd have to agree as she has been deceased for quite some time now...
Ulrich I'd have to agree as she has been deceased for quite some time now...
Thats just a rumor started by Thomas E. Dewey...
Murray Ulrich I'd have to agree as she has been deceased for quite some time now... Thats just a rumor started by Thomas E. Dewey...
And Generalismo Franco started the rumor about Dewey.
From the objections, you would think that henry6 is proposing acts of civil disobedience!
As for foamers doing stupid things to get a picture of a train... I don't think they need a declared "Take a Picture of a Train Day".
RRKen Murray Ulrich I'd have to agree as she has been deceased for quite some time now... Thats just a rumor started by Thomas E. Dewey... And Generalismo Franco started the rumor about Dewey.
Although it should be pointed out that Franco never owned a Nash...
Henry is on the right track I think..if we don't push back we will soon find ourselves living in a police state. I do not participate in group activities..however I will do and go where I please while being careful not to interfere with others. If I want to take a picture I'm going to take a picture...arrest me.
Ulrich Henry is on the right track I think..if we don't push back we will soon find ourselves living in a police state. I do not participate in group activities..however I will do and go where I please while being careful not to interfere with others. If I want to take a picture I'm going to take a picture...arrest me.
So what you are saying Ulrich is that you are promioting a mob mentality and basic anarchy.
So much for the rule of law ladies and gentlemen.
UlrichIf I want to take a picture I'm going to take a picture...arrest me.
If I want to take a picture I'm going to take a picture...arrest me.
Ok, I'll call the rr cops.
Common sense be your guide, and respect for others properties. Also knowing local conditions helps.
RRKenCommon sense be your guide,
Common sense be your guide,
C'mon Ken, how many people have common sense these days?
Murray Ulrich Henry is on the right track I think..if we don't push back we will soon find ourselves living in a police state. I do not participate in group activities..however I will do and go where I please while being careful not to interfere with others. If I want to take a picture I'm going to take a picture...arrest me. So what you are saying Ulrich is that you are promioting a mob mentality and basic anarchy. So much for the rule of law ladies and gentlemen.
No..quite the opposite...like I said..I do not participate in group activities... I will however assert my freedom by doing what ever it is that I do without interfering with your freedom to do the same. I support Henry in his initiative to "push back".. he's doing it in his own way while I do it in mine.
enr2099 RRKen Common sense be your guide, C'mon Ken, how many people have common sense these days?
RRKen Common sense be your guide,
Darn it all, you would have to throw out fact and ruin my day?
RRKenDarn it all, you would have to throw out fact and ruin my day?
I just calls it as I sees it.
enr2099 Ulrich If I want to take a picture I'm going to take a picture...arrest me. Ok, I'll call the rr cops. Please do...I'll make sure the coffee is on..
Ulrich If I want to take a picture I'm going to take a picture...arrest me.
Please do...I'll make sure the coffee is on..
Ah, wait until the authorities find out (at great expense and much money paid to informants) that there are organized groups, often of unmarried men with varying degrees of personal hygiene, who actually possess and share pieces of paper that contain the location and times when trains will arrive and depart!; that there are people who actually possess certain personal electronic devices that permit them to listen into the business directed conversations at will between railroad personnel and staff that often reveal times and locations and consists as well as destinations of trains!; that people share the radio channels that contain such conversations; that certain organizations have quietly placed video cameras that not only record the real-time passage of trains, including military movements, but preserve photographic evidence of actual recent train activity; that persons and organizations have banded together, with no known profit motive, to encourage, detect, and reward what are thought to be the most rare photographic captures of train movements; that persons, in basements, attics or garages, laboriously construct and study replicas of sensitive installations, accurate to the scale inch!
And I'd remind you that either we are closing our eyes to a situation we do not wish to acknowledge or we are unaware of the caliber of disaster represented by the presence of a pool table in this community.
Dave Nelson
UlrichNo..quite the opposite...like I said..I do not participate in group activities... I will however assert my freedom by doing what ever it is that I do without interfering with your freedom to do the same. I support Henry in his initiative to "push back".. he's doing it in his own way while I do it in mine.
OK Ulrich let me hear you finish the sentence by stating "within the law" and them maybe I'll believe you.
Murray UlrichNo..quite the opposite...like I said..I do not participate in group activities... I will however assert my freedom by doing what ever it is that I do without interfering with your freedom to do the same. I support Henry in his initiative to "push back".. he's doing it in his own way while I do it in mine. OK Ulrich let me hear you finish the sentence by stating "within the law" and them maybe I'll believe you.
You got it.."within the law"..
If you want to push back, I think you would get a lot more mileage out of a letter writing campaign to Homeland Security. Tell them who you are, what you do around railroads, why you do it, and tell them that you don’t want to be unnecessarily harassed by law enforcement. Ask Ms. Napolitano to explain railfan activity to the public so they don’t see it as something unusual or not making sense, and waste law enforcement’s time checking it out. If you go out there on a mass protest, you are going to have to explain all of the above to the cops anyway. You might as well take it right to the source.
This is the accurate description to use to Homeland Security:
Ok all you unmarried men with varying degrees of personal hygiene stand over there. The rest of you follow me.
WhiteLeather From Trains.com News Wire: "Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano this week suggested citizens should call law enforcement when they see someone taking a picture of "critical infrastructure." Photographing rail lines from public property remains perfectly legal, but Napolitano suggests citizens should call police anyway. "One of the things we ask people to do," Napolitano told Fox News, "is when they see something unusual, if they see, for example, somebody continually taking photographs of a piece of critical infrastructure that doesn't seem to make any sense … to report that to local law enforcement so it can be followed up on." I've been "investigated" as "suspicious" for simply sitting along a public road and it, like TSA at airports, is yet another slam against our basic 4th Amendment rights. Ms. Napolitano's suggestion will just tie up police and sheriffs for no real reason. She tells people that if you see someone doing something that's "perfectly legal", report it anyway. Wha...?????
From Trains.com News Wire:
"Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano this week suggested citizens should call law enforcement when they see someone taking a picture of "critical infrastructure." Photographing rail lines from public property remains perfectly legal, but Napolitano suggests citizens should call police anyway. "One of the things we ask people to do," Napolitano told Fox News, "is when they see something unusual, if they see, for example, somebody continually taking photographs of a piece of critical infrastructure that doesn't seem to make any sense … to report that to local law enforcement so it can be followed up on."
I've been "investigated" as "suspicious" for simply sitting along a public road and it, like TSA at airports, is yet another slam against our basic 4th Amendment rights. Ms. Napolitano's suggestion will just tie up police and sheriffs for no real reason. She tells people that if you see someone doing something that's "perfectly legal", report it anyway.
Wha...?????
So if your not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about. I don't see the big deal. Now if I was a tresspasser I might be upset, which might explain some of the responses on this board.......
An "expensive model collector"
Murray Ok all you unmarried men with varying degrees of personal hygeine stand over there. The rest of you follow me.
Ok all you unmarried men with varying degrees of personal hygeine stand over there. The rest of you follow me.
I showered today, and even used shampoo.
RRKen Murray Ok all you unmarried men with varying degrees of personal hygeine stand over there. The rest of you follow me. I showered today, and even used shampoo.
You know Ken your hair does look fuller, and has more body and shine.
Murray you hair does look fuller, and has more body and shine.
you hair does look fuller, and has more body and shine.
It is a combination of beer, eggs, and Bailey's Irish creame.
Murray RRKen Murray Ok all you unmarried men with varying degrees of personal hygeine stand over there. The rest of you follow me. I showered today, and even used shampoo. You know Ken you hair does look fuller, and has more body and shine.
You know Ken you hair does look fuller, and has more body and shine.
And your body odor is a little less repulsive today! Good man!
RRKen It is a combination of beer, eggs, and Bailey's Irish creame.
I had eggs with my Full Breakfast this morning.
I had a full breakfast in Albany, NY earlier this year, I ended up watching trains...legally and safely.
I had Bailey's and called it breakfast. Does that count?
Murray I had a full breakfast in Albany, NY earlier this year, I ended up watching trains...legally and safely.
Did they serve grits?
zugmann I had Bailey's and called it breakfast. Does that count?
Only if it was more than one shot.
Is the most important meal of the day.
RRKen Murray I had a full breakfast in Albany, NY earlier this year, I ended up watching trains...legally and safely. Did they serve grits?
Yep...Ate them like Cream of Wheat....
I am not asking anyone to do any thing unsafe or illegal. But letter writing and editorials, etc., have done nothing to dissuade those from changing the no photography rule. What if we do nothing? Nothing happens. Next another right or freedom will be taken away. I have suggested that this is a way to make our point. No mob scene, no violence, no signs, no shouts, no illegal activity, no sabatoge, no tresspassing, no destruction: maybe just take a picture and leave that spot. If we don't do it now, then who will do it and when? I know those who have responded here are not the ones I would expect to do anything like this, or probably anything else in our defense. I have made the suggestion. I am not taking roll call or counting bubbles. I'll be near a track someplace between 11:45 AM and 12:15 PM Saturday, October 3rd, with camera in hand. I hope others will be to. If no one notices, that shows even more the absurdity of such rules. If no one else shows up, it shows the absurdity of having this right in the first place.
Murray RRKen Murray I had a full breakfast in Albany, NY earlier this year, I ended up watching trains...legally and safely. Did they serve grits? Yep...Ate them like Cream of Wheat....
Did they at least have the dignity of serving them with Lard or five pats of butter?
henry6 I am not asking anyone to do any thing unsafe or illegal. But letter writing and editorials, etc., have done nothing to dissuade those from changing the no photography rule. What if we do nothing? Nothing happens. Next another right or freedom will be taken away. I have suggested that this is a way to make our point. No mob scene, no violence, no signs, no shouts, no illegal activity, no sabatoge, no tresspassing, no destruction: maybe just take a picture and leave that spot. If we don't do it now, then who will do it and when? I know those who have responded here are not the ones I would expect to do anything like this, or probably anything else in our defense. I have made the suggestion. I am not taking roll call or counting bubbles. I'll be near a track someplace between 11:45 AM and 12:15 PM Saturday, October 3rd, with camera in hand. I hope others will be to. If no one notices, that shows even more the absurdity of such rules. If no one else shows up, it shows the absurdity of having this right in the first place.
At that time... if I'm working, I'll probably be near the tracks. If not working, good chance I'll be in bed.
I will be working, safely. If you are where I work with a camera, there will be issues. Mainly because it is off limits to the public. We do get some strays, but they are usually meeting the police on the way out.
I could care less what people do on sidewalks or property other than my employers. When they trespass however, I drop the dime, I dont care who they are.
RRKen Did they at least have the dignity of serving them with Lard or five pats of butter?
Johnny
RRKen henry6 I am not asking anyone to do any thing unsafe or illegal. But letter writing and editorials, etc., have done nothing to dissuade those from changing the no photography rule. What if we do nothing? Nothing happens. Next another right or freedom will be taken away. I have suggested that this is a way to make our point. No mob scene, no violence, no signs, no shouts, no illegal activity, no sabatoge, no tresspassing, no destruction: maybe just take a picture and leave that spot. If we don't do it now, then who will do it and when? I know those who have responded here are not the ones I would expect to do anything like this, or probably anything else in our defense. I have made the suggestion. I am not taking roll call or counting bubbles. I'll be near a track someplace between 11:45 AM and 12:15 PM Saturday, October 3rd, with camera in hand. I hope others will be to. If no one notices, that shows even more the absurdity of such rules. If no one else shows up, it shows the absurdity of having this right in the first place. I will be working, safely. If you are where I work with a camera, there will be issues. Mainly because it is off limits to the public. We do get some strays, but they are usually meeting the police on the way out. I could care less what people do on sidewalks or property other than my employers. When they trespass however, I drop the dime, I dont care who they are.
Sheesh..thanks for the warning though.
Deggesty RRKen Did they at least have the dignity of serving them with Lard or five pats of butter? Yes, with butter is the proper way to eat grits. It is permissible to use red-eye gravy. Milk and sugar? I first heard of this heresy when I was in college, and a boy from Southwest Virginia admitting to having eaten grits thus the first time he had any. By the time he got to college, he knew better. (For the information of those who do not yet know, I grew up in South Carolina, and went to college in Bristol, Tennessee). Johnny
I wish someone here served red-eye. Hard to get decent food in a place where Lutefisk is considered good.
The original post was about the legal act of photographing railroads from public property being suspicious. It said nothing about trespass or banning photography. I don’t think there is much you can do about suspicion. Some people are full of it. Homeland Security thrives on it. The real issue, if it comes up, is the introduction of a prohibition on photographing railroad subjects from public property.
RRKen Deggesty RRKen Did they at least have the dignity of serving them with Lard or five pats of butter? Yes, with butter is the proper way to eat grits. It is permissible to use red-eye gravy. Milk and sugar? I first heard of this heresy when I was in college, and a boy from Southwest Virginia admitting to having eaten grits thus the first time he had any. By the time he got to college, he knew better. (For the information of those who do not yet know, I grew up in South Carolina, and went to college in Bristol, Tennessee). Johnny I wish someone here served red-eye. Hard to get decent food in a place where Lutefisk is considered good.
Lutefisk and grits...Mmmmmmmmmmm...Mmmmmmmmmmmm.........drool drool!
Ulrich Sheesh..thanks for the warning though.
If you trespass in my yard, I will also call authorities. It isn't a playground.
zugmann Ulrich Sheesh..thanks for the warning though. If you trespass in my yard, I will also call authorities. It isn't a playground.
Thank you too.
Murray Lutefisk and grits...Mmmmmmmmmmm...Mmmmmmmmmmmm.........drool drool!
There is all sorts of not right with that statement. May as well add ketchup, and chase it with a Bromo.
To those of you happy to call the police, WHAT LAW is Henry/Ulrich proposing that fans BREAK?
We all bemoan how things aren't like they were in the good old days, yet I see the reason why right here in this thread. Too many are cowed into not doing things they like and used to do because someone else sees a problem where none really exist.
For example of all the hundreds if not thousands of middle easterners who learned to fly for fun or a career, five choose to do something horrible. Now every middle-easterner who even flies is suspect.
Why are railfans painted with that same brush???
wabash1 then you wonder why the railroaders hate foamers . you guys are the first to complain when the law comes to your spots and questiions you and the same guys who complain when railroaders turn you in. then you guys are the same guys who female dog and moan when you here of someone screwing up and making a bad name for foamers , then you have the nerve to turn railroaders in on the abuse button here for your own fantisy to continue. With all that said my point is the same guys ( all you guys posting) Are attempting to go out and draw alot of attention to your self and really set yourselfs back 20years and if you come out in the swarms that your trying to do so you can prove your points, then great i Hope everyone of you go to jail ( for your cause yea right) and i will help the police arrest the ones in my area. this is not a game. You want to be accepted do it the right way not as a bunch of vigalanties . No im not parinoid and i dont belive the world is ending. but when i see groups of people standing track side its not ussually a good thing and most generally ends up being trouble.
Who, pray tell, in this entire thread up to the point of your reply, said anything about being vigilantes? It was simply proposed that those of us who are willing can go out to take some photographs of trains on a certain Saturday during a certain time period, from public property. How is that being a vigilante? Nobody's proposing a mass protest where we all trespass on railroad property. That's absurd.
And for that matter, let's just say, Wabash1, that a large group of people did congregate in your neighborhood, on public property, to snap some train photos. You are going to help the police arrest them, are you? Good luck. What would you see? A buncha law-abiding, tax-payin' guys, standing in a parking lot or on a sidewalk facing the tracks, with cameras around their necks, swappin' stories about trains and railroad history, laughin', jokin', maybe making some new friends in the process, wearing their favorite RR ball caps and many (like me) a few pounds past slim, and you in your sanctimony will volunteer to help the police cuff 'em all and drag them into the pokey?
Uh huh. Sure you will. I think you'd be the one who stands a better chance of getting arrested for making a false report because no 911 operator would believe a crime was being committed or even such a group of rail enthusiasts were doing anything suspicious.
Calm down.
I'm afraid you can't trespass where I work either Ulrich.
The sign at the base reads: "Authorized personnel only. Use of Deadly Force Authorized".
Henry:
October 3 is a good day to go out an photograph trains. Each year Railroads Illustrated selects a Saturday, usually, for railfans to go out to their favorite haunts, photograph trains, and send in their photos for publication. They call that day Railfan Day In North America. This year Railroads Illustrated has selected October 3 for Railfan Day In North America so selecting October 3 for all railfans to go out an photograph or even video record trains fits.
My wife and I will be on our way from Durango, CO to Canon City, CO so I should have an opportunity to photograph a train
If you are not breaking the law, there is no need to call the police. But c'mon... we all know that there are a lot of railfans that won't let a simple property line stop them from the ulitamte photo.
rrnut282 To those of you happy to call the police, WHAT LAW is Henry/Ulrich proposing that fans BREAK? We all bemoan how things aren't like they were in the good old days, yet I see the reason why right here in this thread. Too many are cowed into not doing things they like and used to do because someone else sees a problem where none really exist. For example of all the hundreds if not thousands of middle easterners who learned to fly for fun or a career, five choose to do something horrible. Now every middle-easterner who even flies is suspect. Why are railfans painted with that same brush???
Murray zugmann Ulrich Sheesh..thanks for the warning though. If you trespass in my yard, I will also call authorities. It isn't a playground. I'm afraid you can't trespass where I work either Ulrich. The sign at the base reads: "Authorized personnel only. Use of Deadly Force Authorized".
Thanks Murray..I respect private property and the property of others..
Bucyrus The original post was about the legal act of photographing railroads from public property being suspicious. It said nothing about trespass or banning photography. I don’t think there is much you can do about suspicion. Some people are full of it. Homeland Security thrives on it. The real issue, if it comes up, is the introduction of a prohibition on photographing railroad subjects from public property.
Anyone standing around on a street corner at a rail road crossing looks suspicious to the men in Blue (or Brown or Red).
Let us be serious for a moment shall we. I was in Harvey, IL back in 1988, and took some photos for stock of a man being questioned and arrested by the police. They tried it with me, but the law is on my side. So says those in the legal profession.
If you think, for one moment that the Constabulary cares what you are taking photos of, or would want to get into a legal tug of war, think again. Be polite, follow instructions, and have a nice day.
WIAR wabash1 then you wonder why the railroaders hate foamers . you guys are the first to complain when the law comes to your spots and questiions you and the same guys who complain when railroaders turn you in. then you guys are the same guys who female dog and moan when you here of someone screwing up and making a bad name for foamers , then you have the nerve to turn railroaders in on the abuse button here for your own fantisy to continue. With all that said my point is the same guys ( all you guys posting) Are attempting to go out and draw alot of attention to your self and really set yourselfs back 20years and if you come out in the swarms that your trying to do so you can prove your points, then great i Hope everyone of you go to jail ( for your cause yea right) and i will help the police arrest the ones in my area. this is not a game. You want to be accepted do it the right way not as a bunch of vigalanties . No im not parinoid and i dont belive the world is ending. but when i see groups of people standing track side its not ussually a good thing and most generally ends up being trouble. Who, pray tell, in this entire thread up to the point of your reply, said anything about being vigilantes? It was simply proposed that those of us who are willing can go out to take some photographs of trains on a certain Saturday during a certain time period, from public property. How is that being a vigilante? Nobody's proposing a mass protest where we all trespass on railroad property. That's absurd. And for that matter, let's just say, Wabash1, that a large group of people did congregate in your neighborhood, on public property, to snap some train photos. You are going to help the police arrest them, are you? Good luck. What would you see? A buncha law-abiding, tax-payin' guys, standing in a parking lot or on a sidewalk facing the tracks, with cameras around their necks, swappin' stories about trains and railroad history, laughin', jokin', maybe making some new friends in the process, wearing their favorite RR ball caps and many (like me) a few pounds past slim, and you in your sanctimony will volunteer to help the police cuff 'em all and drag them into the pokey? Uh huh. Sure you will. I think you'd be the one who stands a better chance of getting arrested for making a false report because no 911 operator would believe a crime was being committed or even such a group of rail enthusiasts were doing anything suspicious. Calm down.
Funny that he refers to us as foamers..judging from his own post he is pretty much frothing over the top himself.
RRKen Bucyrus The original post was about the legal act of photographing railroads from public property being suspicious. It said nothing about trespass or banning photography. I don’t think there is much you can do about suspicion. Some people are full of it. Homeland Security thrives on it. The real issue, if it comes up, is the introduction of a prohibition on photographing railroad subjects from public property. Anyone standing around on a street corner at a rail road crossing looks suspicious to the men in Blue (or Brown or Red). Let us be serious for a moment shall we. I was in Harvey, IL back in 1988, and took some photos for stock of a man being questioned and arrested by the police. They tried it with me, but the law is on my side. So says those in the legal profession. If you think, for one moment that the Constabulary cares what you are taking photos of, or would want to get into a legal tug of war, think again. Be polite, follow instructions, and have a nice day.
We are on the same page, I think.
WhiteLeatherFrom Trains.com News Wire: "Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano this week suggested citizens should call law enforcement when they see someone taking a picture of "critical infrastructure." Photographing rail lines from public property remains perfectly legal, but Napolitano suggests citizens should call police anyway. "One of the things we ask people to do," Napolitano told Fox News, "is when they see something unusual, if they see, for example, somebody continually taking photographs of a piece of critical infrastructure that doesn't seem to make any sense … to report that to local law enforcement so it can be followed up on."I've been "investigated" as "suspicious" for simply sitting along a public road and it, like TSA at airports, is yet another slam against our basic 4th Amendment rights. Ms. Napolitano's suggestion will just tie up police and sheriffs for no real reason. She tells people that if you see someone doing something that's "perfectly legal", report it anyway. Wha...?????
GP40-2WhiteLeather From Trains.com News Wire: "Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano this week suggested citizens should call law enforcement when they see someone taking a picture of "critical infrastructure." Photographing rail lines from public property remains perfectly legal, but Napolitano suggests citizens should call police anyway. "One of the things we ask people to do," Napolitano told Fox News, "is when they see something unusual, if they see, for example, somebody continually taking photographs of a piece of critical infrastructure that doesn't seem to make any sense … to report that to local law enforcement so it can be followed up on." I've been "investigated" as "suspicious" for simply sitting along a public road and it, like TSA at airports, is yet another slam against our basic 4th Amendment rights. Ms. Napolitano's suggestion will just tie up police and sheriffs for no real reason. She tells people that if you see someone doing something that's "perfectly legal", report it anyway. Wha...????? Everyone needs to stop complaining. You all wanted the "Hope and Change" thing. Now, a least you got the Change. You should investigate all the other "changes" Napolitano wants to make to the Bill of Rights. Calling the police on every railfan will be the least of your problems.
I think that is an excellent point. She came out with some kind of "be on the lookout for domestic terrorists" alert for law enforcement last spring that kind of surprised a lot of people.
Most of us aren't looking for a fight...all we really want to do is follow-up on our interests by taking pictures from a safe location that does not contravene any laws. Personally I enjoy watching trains from a park adjacent to the tracks. I really don't take pictures as I'm a lousy photographer anyway...and I don't want to attract attention to myself. I'm not afraid of the police...just don't like being conspicuous in public. Maybe things are different here in Canada...most railfans here are like myself..we pursue our interests alone...I've never met a mob of foamers as someone else here so colorfully calls us. I don't see the problem..
Thoughts just occured to me:
GP40-2 Everyone needs to stop complaining. You all wanted the "Hope and Change" thing. Now, a least you got the Change. You should investigate all the other "changes" Napolitano wants to make to the Bill of Rights. Calling the police on every railfan will be the least of your problems.
Because the previous administation was a perfect model of protecting personal rights.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
To answer your questions Yes.... I dont call 911 and I have a very good working relation with the local police and they know im a engineer. and yes i will help arrest anyone who thinks they are above the law. and if you want further proff. Ask the 15 men who thought they was right I informed them they was tresspassing that they wasnt allowed there. they informed me that they had the right to be there and watching trains and taking pictures was ok by them and one loud mouth decided to do his yea yea bull and said for me to leave , the funny part is they was still waving at trains when i went by, but they was 2 miles away at the public depot.LOL so yes i will have guys moved and yes i will turn guys in and yes if you run your mouth it happens faster
I must also say my point was not to start a fight only to point out that this act you are proposing will do more harm than good, aint nobody taking anything away but go out in mob form protesting and it will drag you down,
Interesting. Now you say you (will?) call 911 for people who think they're "above the law", implying they would need to be actually breaking some law. You didn't say that before. You just said if people go out in a big group you'd hope we all get arrested. I said it before and I'll say it again: Calm down. I see no reason for this kind of hysterical rant just because you may have had some trouble with trespassers before. So you argued with a few yahoos trespassing on RR property and they decided to move. Big deal. Nobody here said anything about going out as a mob - you just read that into all this and it's not accurate. There are people who take pride in abiding by the law, then there are people who think they can enforce the law themselves, like you. If you see somebody trespassing then call the cops. If they're not doing anything to break any laws, leave 'em alone.
wabash1 then you wonder why the railroaders hate foamers . you guys are the first to complain when the law comes to your spots and questiions you and the same guys who complain when railroaders turn you in. then you guys are the same guys who female dog and moan when you here of someone screwing up and making a bad name for foamers , then you have the nerve to turn railroaders in on the abuse button here for your own fantisy to continue. With all that said my point is the same guys ( all you guys posting) Are attempting to go out and draw alot of attention to your self and really set yourselfs back 20years and if you come out in the swarms that your trying to do so you can prove your points, then great i Hope everyone of you go to jail ( for your cause yea right) and i will help the police arrest the ones in my area. this is not a game. You want to be accepted do it the right way not as a bunch of vigalanties . No im not parinoid and i dont belive the world is ending. but when i see groups of people standing track side its not ussually a good thing and most generally ends up being trouble. To answer your questions Yes.... I dont call 911 and I have a very good working relation with the local police and they know im a engineer. and yes i will help arrest anyone who thinks they are above the law. and if you want further proff. Ask the 15 men who thought they was right I informed them they was tresspassing that they wasnt allowed there. they informed me that they had the right to be there and watching trains and taking pictures was ok by them and one loud mouth decided to do his yea yea bull and said for me to leave , the funny part is they was still waving at trains when i went by, but they was 2 miles away at the public depot.LOL so yes i will have guys moved and yes i will turn guys in and yes if you run your mouth it happens faster
It must be stressful to be retaining so much anger.
It also saddens me as I watch the quality of our educational system decline. The current fad of text messaging instead of talking on our cell phones is leaking out into all forms of writing. Capitalization, punctuation, spelling, sentence construction, and even some words are all being lost.
Fellas- can we try to keep this thread on track, and back away from personal attacks please?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
WIAR Interesting. Now you say you (will?) call 911 for people who think they're "above the law", implying they would need to be actually breaking some law. You didn't say that before. You just said if people go out in a big group you'd hope we all get arrested. I said it before and I'll say it again: Calm down. I see no reason for this kind of hysterical rant just because you may have had some trouble with trespassers before. So you argued with a few yahoos trespassing on RR property and they decided to move. Big deal. Nobody here said anything about going out as a mob - you just read that into all this and it's not accurate. There are people who take pride in abiding by the law, then there are people who think they can enforce the law themselves, like you. If you see somebody trespassing then call the cops. If they're not doing anything to break any laws, leave 'em alone.
Norris they aint got enough to get me worked up this guy named wair is nothing . Its not that important to me as ill have them arrested Im just trying to show them that if they go out looking like a bunch of vigilanties they will only set them selves back 20years but this dummy dont want to believe anything just ready to jump back at me for proving a point. but he cant get that right as i didnt say anywhere in that post that i call 911. LOOK AGAIN WAIR AND SHOW ME THAT I SAID ILL CALL 911....... HINT YOU WONT FIND IT.. I DID NOT WRITE OR SAY IT.
Phoebe Vet wabash1 then you wonder why the railroaders hate foamers . you guys are the first to complain when the law comes to your spots and questiions you and the same guys who complain when railroaders turn you in. then you guys are the same guys who female dog and moan when you here of someone screwing up and making a bad name for foamers , then you have the nerve to turn railroaders in on the abuse button here for your own fantisy to continue. With all that said my point is the same guys ( all you guys posting) Are attempting to go out and draw alot of attention to your self and really set yourselfs back 20years and if you come out in the swarms that your trying to do so you can prove your points, then great i Hope everyone of you go to jail ( for your cause yea right) and i will help the police arrest the ones in my area. this is not a game. You want to be accepted do it the right way not as a bunch of vigalanties . No im not parinoid and i dont belive the world is ending. but when i see groups of people standing track side its not ussually a good thing and most generally ends up being trouble. To answer your questions Yes.... I dont call 911 and I have a very good working relation with the local police and they know im a engineer. and yes i will help arrest anyone who thinks they are above the law. and if you want further proff. Ask the 15 men who thought they was right I informed them they was tresspassing that they wasnt allowed there. they informed me that they had the right to be there and watching trains and taking pictures was ok by them and one loud mouth decided to do his yea yea bull and said for me to leave , the funny part is they was still waving at trains when i went by, but they was 2 miles away at the public depot.LOL so yes i will have guys moved and yes i will turn guys in and yes if you run your mouth it happens faster It must be stressful to be retaining so much anger. It also saddens me as I watch the quality of our educational system decline. The current fad of text messaging instead of talking on our cell phones is leaking out into all forms of writing. Capitalization, punctuation, spelling, sentence construction, and even some words are all being lost.
cry me a river , Im not angry not at the slightest, and as far as texting goes I dont have it that is a waste of time when a phone call is easier. and as far as proper english sentance structure bla bla bla its not important to me i dont care if there is capital letters periods or any of the other things you want , if you dont like it dont read it. dont come back to the site. simple enough.
Don't think they meant you personally..i.e. about the grammar. And anyway..one person's strength is another's weakness. I know people who can't write or spell..but they can strip an engine and then put it back together again. Back when I was in school a teacher warned me about putting in commas and periods..She told me that my run on sentences didn't give her a chance to breathe, and that I almost made her pass out for lack of air. I didn't tell her that that was my intention..
The proposed "action" comes down to some good old "civil disobedience," although in this case, there's nothing illegal about what's being suggested. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Push comes to shove, though, I wouldn't be surprised if the readers of this forum know more about this whole thing than John Q and Jane Public. Odds are if they wouldn't have called the police before, they won't now either.
It might be more effective to invite the person who suggested that people report "suspicous activity," Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano, to spend the day at one of the popular railfan spots, together with a horde of fans, so she can see that we're not a threat. Be sure to bring along your BNSF cards...
Phoebe Vet edblysard Phoebe Vet As long as the fear mongers keep constantly telling us that everyone is out to get us and that all middle easterners want all westerners dead you can expect this panic driven foolishness to continue and to continually get worse. I understand that the threat level has been raised to periwinkle. Periwinkle...isn't that the one where we are supposed to have a ten year supply of twinkies and five gallons of water put away in our bomb shelters "just in case"? No; that's Saffron. Periwinkle is where you dig a moat around your house and fill it with battery acid then trade the Twinkies for cigarettes and ammunition. Crimson is where you are authorized to make pre-emptive strikes against any neighbors who strike you as suspicious.
I hate it when my kids use the Alert Color Play Book for a scratch pad.....
zugmannGP40-2 Everyone needs to stop complaining. You all wanted the "Hope and Change" thing. Now, at least you got the Change. You should investigate all the other "changes" Napolitano wants to make to the Bill of Rights. Calling the police on every railfan will be the least of your problems. Because the previous administation was a perfect model of protecting personal rights. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
GP40-2 Everyone needs to stop complaining. You all wanted the "Hope and Change" thing. Now, at least you got the Change. You should investigate all the other "changes" Napolitano wants to make to the Bill of Rights. Calling the police on every railfan will be the least of your problems.
GP40-2zugmann GP40-2 Everyone needs to stop complaining. You all wanted the "Hope and Change" thing. Now, at least you got the Change. You should investigate all the other "changes" Napolitano wants to make to the Bill of Rights. Calling the police on every railfan will be the least of your problems. Because the previous administation was a perfect model of protecting personal rights. Whatever helps you sleep at night. The previous administration (which I was no fan of either since you brought it up), hasn't been in charge since January, and has nothing to do with the current version of "Homeland Security" (whatever that means). The issue is one Janet Napolitano, who seems to think the U.S. Constitution no longer applies to her decisions, and everyone who does not agree with her is a domestic terrorist. If this is your idea of CHANGE, then you can keep it.
zugmann GP40-2 Everyone needs to stop complaining. You all wanted the "Hope and Change" thing. Now, at least you got the Change. You should investigate all the other "changes" Napolitano wants to make to the Bill of Rights. Calling the police on every railfan will be the least of your problems. Because the previous administation was a perfect model of protecting personal rights. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
I am reminded of my youth when my father who as an Army Reservist in Army Intellegence, and several social studies teachers kept hammering home the concept of how Communist Rusia enlisted the populace to report any suspicious behavior by their neighbors or fellow workers. Even George Orwell railed against such Socialistic and Communistic activities. But today, those same people want us to roll over and play dead while they encourage the guy next door to call the authorities on the guy next door and me. That is probvably what boils my blood mor over this whole photography issue than anything else. But I guess it is cheaper than hiring more cops!
NO! The idea of going out Oct 3 around noon Eastern Time and take a picture of a trian from public property sounds better and better all the time. I really doubt, that if anybody does do it, that there will be more than three people at any location nor that more than a couple hundred would participate nationwide. So maybe we should do it around noon Eastern Time the first Saturday of every month until this nonesense is stopped!
Going out to photograph trains on October 3 is a good idea, but not around noon daylight time because the sun might still be high enough in the sky, or overhead, so the shot might not be that well lighted. Railroads Illustrated has selected October 3 this year as Railfan Day In North America so there might be more photographers out than usual photographing trains.
RRKenMurray Lutefisk and grits...Mmmmmmmmmmm...Mmmmmmmmmmmm.........drool drool! There is all sorts of not right with that statement. May as well add ketchup, and chase it with a Bromo.
Not too mention that preparing lutefisk and grits sounds like very suspicious behavior, better call the DHS about the toxic inhalation and toxic ingestion hazard!
- Erik
Tested the program today. Went to Nicholson, PA today to witness the passage of Steamtown steam excursion across the CP/DH (orignial Delware, Lackawanna and Western RR) Tunkhannock Viaduct. And I think it worked out pretty well. No body from Homeland Security showed up so apparently no one complained. About 30 lined a country road between several cornfields north of the bridge with cars, cameras, video and sound recording, and tripods; another couple dozen had gathered at the Pump and Pantry Coenvencience Store and Gas station (private property but no one seemed to care), and several others scattered around the town of Nicholson. I, myself, set up my tripod at the corner of Main St. and PA Route 92 in front of the Doller General Store across Main St. from Peoples Nationa Bank. The train was supposed to have arrived around 2pm but because of an NS southbound, it was held in Dalton, PA and did not arrive until 3:20pm. Two other railfans shared the same area for over an hour. An unmarked State Police car (uniformed driver) did pass by once but did not bother us. Somebody should probably report this lack of notice to Homeland Security and have everyone in Nicholson arrested for not reporting about 100 or so railfans scattered around town and the bridge in violation of HS laws! Or was that a survellance team the blue and white single engine Cessena that kept circling town before the train's arrival? But, all in all, I think Oct. 3rd should go very well with no violence or destruction of property anticipated, and probably noone to be reported or arrested unless they are stupid in their own right. The public is now on notice! And , what the hey, for noon ET, on the first Saturday of every month from now on!
henry6 Tested the program today. Went to Nicholson, PA today to witness the passage of Steamtown steam excursion across the CP/DH (orignial Delware, Lackawanna and Western RR) Tunkhannock Viaduct. And I think it worked out pretty well. No body from Homeland Security showed up so apparently no one complained. About 30 lined a country road between several cornfields north of the bridge with cars, cameras, video and sound recording, and tripods; another couple dozen had gathered at the Pump and Pantry Coenvencience Store and Gas station (private property but no one seemed to care), and several others scattered around the town of Nicholson. I, myself, set up my tripod at the corner of Main St. and PA Route 92 in front of the Doller General Store across Main St. from Peoples Nationa Bank. The train was supposed to have arrived around 2pm but because of an NS southbound, it was held in Dalton, PA and did not arrive until 3:20pm. Two other railfans shared the same area for over an hour. An unmarked State Police car (uniformed driver) did pass by once but did not bother us. Somebody should probably report this lack of notice to Homeland Security and have everyone in Nicholson arrested for not reporting about 100 or so railfans scattered around town and the bridge in violation of HS laws! Or was that a survellance team the blue and white single engine Cessena that kept circling town before the train's arrival? But, all in all, I think Oct. 3rd should go very well with no violence or destruction of property anticipated, and probably noone to be reported or arrested unless they are stupid in their own right. The public is now on notice! And , what the hey, for noon ET, on the first Saturday of every month from now on!
Good for you, Henry! What? A 100 or so railnuts scattered around town and NOBODY REPORTED THIS "MOB"??!! Oh my God. Next thing you know they'll be snappin' pictures! Wait! They were doin' that too??!! God help us. Oh no - for God's sake they were probably patronizing local businesses and buyin' sandwiches and coffee to enjoy while watching trains! WILL THIS TYRANNY OF CRIME EVER END??!!
On 10/3, I'll park my car in Isanti, MN in the public parking lot on the west side of the BNSF Hinckley Sub, cross the tracks on the sidewalk, stroll-up to my favorite coffeehouse, flirt with the pretty girls they have working there as always, get a latte', stroll back to my car by the same route and sit there in a lawn chair and snap pictures of BNSF, CP & UP freights rolling through town while the light is good.
This is surely the beginning of a life of crime - at the age of 46.
Just because Ms. Napolitano suddenly tells the world to be suspicious of anybody photographing critical infrastructure, it does not mean that the world is going to follow her orders. In the first place, I don’t think that the average person sees railroad operations as “critical infrastructure” that is on pins and needles about security breaches. And I don’t think that the average person finds railfan photographic activity to be as incomprehensible or troublesome as some might suggest.
The biggest threat to railfans (and to the rest of us) is that people like Napolitano will push for laws that govern what may and may not be photographed, regardless of the location of the photographer. The line may be clear right now, but nothing is chiseled in stone.
That, Bucyrus, is part of my point!
FWIW: In the most recent issue of Popular Photography letters column, a writer refers to the bimbo Janet's statement mentioned by the OP, and asks, "When this will end?"
So it is not only railfans that are feeling the loss of freedom; it is photographers of all types.
Of course Homeland "Security" must keep us reminded of how important they are to the preservation of our cherished lifestyle; for if we did not feel threatened by everyone and everything, what need would we have for their phony-balony department?
I bet those that are of the mentality to watch Fox 'News' really sopped up her statements, and double-checked their guns before putting them under their pillows for the night. They probably have Homeland Security's phone number on speed-dial.
If I was President that spookey Orwellian Department would be gone by the end of January.
Unfortunately it is a relatively new bureaucracy which has yet to flex it's teen spirit! It has to grow some more before it will implode as all bureaucracies do! It just takes so long.
zardoz Of course Homeland "Security" must keep us reminded of how important they are to the preservation of our cherished lifestyle; for if we did not feel threatened by everyone and everything, what need would we have for their phony-balony department? I bet those that are of the mentality to watch Fox 'News' really sopped up her statements, and double-checked their guns before putting them under their pillows for the night. They probably have Homeland Security's phone number on speed-dial.
I hardly think that those Fox News types you mention would be cozying up to Janet Napolitano. I can’t seem to find a link to Napolitano’s 4/7/09 Memo To Law Enforcement on “right wing extremism” being a security threat to the U.S., but here is an article about it.
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/16/right-wing-extremism-alarm/
The memo itself listed several red flag indicators for law enforcement to keep an eye on such as people who think taxes are too high or government is too big. Ostensibly, the memo was not intended for public viewing, but it somehow leaked allegedly. I believe that it was an intimidation tactic that was indeed intended to be seen by the public.
When Janet was governor of Arizona she was continually lobbying the Bush Administration to put federal troops on the border or provide federal funds to put Arizona National Guard on the border. Now that she's in a position to do so, not a peep about putting federal troops or NG there.
Phoebe Vet If I was President that spookey Orwellian Department would be gone by the end of January.
You've got my vote.
henry6 Unfortunately it is a relatively new bureaucracy which has yet to flex it's teen spirit! It has to grow some more before it will implode as all bureaucracies do! It just takes so long.
A short and true recent story:
Philadelphia International Airport ("PHL"), Monday night, June 01, 2009, about 9:00 PM, Terminal A - West, down in the covered-over drop-off and pick-up lanes just outside from the baggage claim area: A silver Infiniti M45 (as best as I can recall) is double-parked in the second lane out, flashers on, but no one in or around it, and blocking up traffic pretty badly. No Philly cop or airport security personnel around, either. I don't know if the usual recorded 'Special Security Announcement' about not leaving cars unattended or they will be towed, etc., was playing or not - I probably wouldn't have heard it anyway. This state of affairs continued for about 10 minutes - then a young man finally showed up from inside, got in, and drove away.
Within a day or two I sent a pretty caustic e-mail to the Department of Homeland Security about this, complete with details as to time, the car's license no., etc. and the lack of police or security presence. To this day, absolutely no acknowledgment or response of any kind.
At about the same time, I also sent an e-mail to DHS complimenting the performance and courtesy of the pre-flight screeners at both PHL and Jackson Hole, Wyoming, for our flights during the previous 2 weeks. That one was acknowledged within a day - together with a follow-up request for specifics as to which gate was involved, so that my comments could be directed to or for the proper personnel.
You decide what it all means, and what is being taken seriously and not, etc.
- Paul North.
Ulrichand the kids are playing computer games
I know, I'm still a freshman in high school, and the shame of it is, I have to be honestly the only student in the building that has any interest in railroading. It's a real shame.
I've considered taking up rail photography expect I have no easy way to get near train tracks. (the area of town of where I live is still a little rural, so there are open ditches no sidewalks and no real shoulders on the roads)
WhiteLeather"One of the things we ask people to do," Napolitano told Fox News, "is when they see something unusual, if they see, for example, somebody continually taking photographs of a piece of critical infrastructure that doesn't seem to make any sense … to report that to local law enforcement so it can be followed up on."
"One of the things we ask people to do," Napolitano told Fox News, "is when they see something unusual, if they see, for example, somebody continually taking photographs of a piece of critical infrastructure that doesn't seem to make any sense … to report that to local law enforcement so it can be followed up on."
On Network Rail (A British Track owner/Maintenance company) They have a page for 'Railway Enthusiasts'
On the page, they say
"You can take photographs at stations provided you do not sell them. However, you are not allowed to take photographs of security related equipment, such as CCTV cameras."
Wow imagine all the "bad" things I could do by taking photos of security cameras.
But on the flip side I like how they give railfans some notice as a possible security tool.
"Your presence at a station can be very helpful to us as extra "eyes and ears" and can have a positive security benefit."
The other poor thing about that statement is that it's vague, My definition of suspicious, and Joe Jenkins may be two totally different things. Ironically it screws the one thing that can prevent a terrorist attack, our vigilance, because we'll miss the guy with the bomb, reporting the guy sketching a building, harmlessly or taking photos of a train.
SATURDAY OCTOBER 3, 2009 is this Saturday!!! How many gonna be out somewhere on public or persmissive property with a camera ready to take a picture of a train sometime between 11:45AM and 12:15 PM? No mob scene. No breaking of laws. No violence. Just be there with camera and if a train comes by, aim and shoot...a picture with the camera or cell phone that is! Lets see how many of our comerades, our fellow travelers if you will, will call authorities to report suspecious behavior.
I think we should call the cops on stupid Government law makers for being full of BS.
Leave the Railfans alone.
I was going to be out this weekend, but an event has come up (rail related) that I'll be at, but not near tracks, unfortunately.
I may call DC police and report Sec. Nappy for doing something legal. After all, those are her instructions.
WhiteLeather I was going to be out this weekend, but an event has come up (rail related) that I'll be at, but not near tracks, unfortunately. I may call DC police and report Sec. Nappy for doing something legal. After all, those are her instructions.
That's the Spirit! At least you understand what this is all about.
Jeg forstar ikke! Lutefisk and grits? Uff da! You have been put on the "Minnesota Border Watch" list by the United Lefse Baker's Cooperative of the Minnesota SSR. Don't even attempt to enter Minnesota in a 'Japmobile' for the next month! If you do get in, and someone asks you: "Vil du ha en liten skvett Akvavit?", run like hell! They are on to you!!!
Hays
I am a "major" shareholder of BNSF Railway (NYSE: BNI). Well, not quite as "major" as Warren Buffett, but the thought counts... I am also a member of BNSF's "Citizens for Rail Security". The abbreviation, CRS, is a bit offensive, to this senior citizen, but... Anyhoo, I asked BNSF how I would go about signing a release to take photographs on "MY" property. "No way!", was the answer. Guess I'll have to take my request higher up the chain.
Unfortunate, methinks, that I can't legally gain access to my company's property. I know, as a retired U. S. Army soldier, I am a "suspected person" on Janet Nepolitano's list, as well as the list of Nancy Pelosi! No! I won't tell you if I own a gun!!! I do own a Nikon D50, and some other photographic/video gear... Oops! Maybe I shouldn't have said that. Some crazy stuff going on!
Bill Hays -- Shelby, MT -- wdh@mcn.net
Go easy, "Phoebe Snow". His moniker infers he is from Indiana, or some-such godforsaken place, where English is the third language. At least, be thankful that he still has a conductor to read the train orders to him.
BNSFwatcher Jeg forstar ikke! Lutefisk and grits? Uff da! You have been put on the "Minnesota Border Watch" list by the United Lefse Baker's Cooperative of the Minnesota SSR. Don't even attempt to enter Minnesota in a 'Japmobile' for the next month! If you do get in, and someone asks you: "Vil du ha en liten skvett Akvavit?", run like hell! They are on to you!!! Hays
But can we take a picture?
BNSFwatcherJeg forstar ikke! Lutefisk and grits? Uff da! You have been put on the "Minnesota Border Watch" list by the United Lefse Baker's Cooperative of the Minnesota SSR. Don't even attempt to enter Minnesota in a 'Japmobile' for the next month! If you do get in, and someone asks you: "Vil du ha en liten skvett Akvavit?", run like hell! They are on to you!!! Hays
This forum was a nice place to visit until the Norwegians moved in.... It could be worse, this forum could be overrun by Swedes.
Mmmm, lefse. Christmas isn't quite the same without a plate of rolled up lefse with butter and cinnamon sugar - got a shipment last December from my niece who is now a senior at St Olaf.
erikem BNSFwatcher Jeg forstar ikke! Lutefisk and grits? Uff da! You have been put on the "Minnesota Border Watch" list by the United Lefse Baker's Cooperative of the Minnesota SSR. Don't even attempt to enter Minnesota in a 'Japmobile' for the next month! If you do get in, and someone asks you: "Vil du ha en liten skvett Akvavit?", run like hell! They are on to you!!! Hays This forum was a nice place to visit until the Norwegians moved in.... It could be worse, this forum could be overrun by Swedes. Mmmm, lefse. Christmas isn't quite the same without a plate of rolled up lefse with butter and cinnamon sugar - got a shipment last December from my niece who is now a senior at St Olaf.
Greetings from Norway!It's so fun to see you guys writing norwegian. I love Akevitt and not just a skvett... but I stay away from the Lutefisk...
I'm planning (together with about ten other norwegians) to come to Milwaukee next year at the NMRA 75th anniversary convention.
Ha en fin dag and let's keep the swedes away... ;-))
Morten :-)*Born to eat lefse*
And what do the last two posts have to do with US Homeland Security, US railroads, and legally taking pictures from public or allowed land of trains without being tattled on by our comrades and fellow travellers?
W-e-l-l, the title of the thread is New Homeland Security Fun...
Have you ever considered the Homeland Security ramifications of say a doublestack train carrying nothing but Luteefisk? (Which would likely violate treaties prohibiting use of chemical and biological weapons.)
My day job is primarily developing Homeland Security related technology, so I rather deal with the lighter side of the subject.
midnightI'm planning (together with about ten other norwegians) to come to Milwaukee next year at the NMRA 75th anniversary convention.
Railfans are not the only group that is affected by this silly proclamation; now that the government has turned most of the sheeple into snitches, everybody with a camera is now a suspect.
The following is an excerpt from one of the Milwaukee tv station's meteorologist's blog http://www.todaystmj4.com/bloggers/briangotter/61115887.html; in it he recalls his adventures with his camera (highlights mine).
I can't help but wonder what would have been the result if this person was not "famous".
Kinda scary that this post is happening more and more. I posted about 2 months ago about being asked to not take pictures of a rail facility in Texas. My wife was reading my posts over my shoulder and for my birthday recently I received a pair of binaculars with a camera built in!!! Havn't had a problem since!
Bill
People are weird. One by one the government is implementing blatantly unconstitutional rules and laws and people are comforted by it because it makes them feel safe. But, of course, the safety is an illusion. Try repealing some of those abusive laws and rules and listen to people scream.
During my 22 years of police work I used to see the same mind set among some abused wives. They actually felt that the abusive husband was proving he loved them when he beat or emotionally mistreated them. It was very frustrating and impossible to understand.
Morten; DO NOT!, I repeat: DO NOT try to smuggle any Norwegian lutefisk into this country. The United Lye Workers Union of America, AFL/CIO, will have you arrested on touchdown! You might get away with just paying a fine on the lye content of the lutefisk, but I doubt it. Vi bestiller akevitt og lefse in Milwaukee. The beer is horrible there!
Guess this puts off my plans to visit the U.S. and I did plan to bring my camera (obviously a big mistake), so I guess it's off to Cuba to photograph some old sugar cane trains.
I was hoping to hear of people's successes and failures taking pictures today. I don't have any myself but I missed two good shots this morning. I was the lone train fan in a vehicle driven by a non fan.
One was a SOO Line unit on the point of an eastbound out of Alyth. It was the all red paint job with the white lettering. I can't say I've seen one before, or at least not in a long time. You see the white and red one's off and on. I have never been sure of the sequence of the paint jobs.
I hope others did get photo's this morning.
AgentKid
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
BNSFwatcher Morten; DO NOT!, I repeat: DO NOT try to smuggle any Norwegian lutefisk into this country. The United Lye Workers Union of America, AFL/CIO, will have you arrested on touchdown! You might get away with just paying a fine on the lye content of the lutefisk, but I doubt it. Vi bestiller akevitt og lefse in Milwaukee. The beer is horrible there! Hays
Good luck trying to stop that from happening in Minnesota. They sneak that stuff across the border to Iowa all the time, and no one regulates it. Lutefisk is a national disgrace.
I got photos this evening. forgot today was "take a picture day" to boot.
Still wasn't hassled.
zugmann I got photos this evening. forgot today was "take a picture day" to boot. Still wasn't hassled.
+1. Except for the 'forgot' part.
Dan
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